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Posted: 3/18/2008 5:45:03 PM EDT
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Has there ever been any difinitive accuracy testing done with various suppressors? I have a tac-16 on a 16" delton upper that I cannot get to shoot better than 2moa. I've tried all kinds of ammo in all kinds of situations with all kinds of different shooters. (some I would even consider to be better shooters than I) Same results. I have yet to get another chance to get to the range and shoot without the suppressor to prove whether it is the can or not, but I have exhausted all other posibilities. Only two things left: 1) The suppressor negatively affects accuracy. 2) The upper is only capable of 2moa. If all goes well I will hit the range this weekend and find out for myself which it is. But I would like some input from people in the know here. Ever had any experience with a suppressor negatively affecting accuracy? |
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I pic option 2. Delton sucks. Get something stainless steel if you want accuracy. Or a Chrome lined heavy or medium contour. The light chrome barrels usually shoot ok.. but they can be burned out quickly with a little abuse, and the accuracy degrades considerably. |
I have to ask what are these "all kinds" of ammo and "all situations" you are speaking of here????? I don't own a suppressor but IIRC from those I know that do the "first" thing one does is test fire the rifle "without" the hush-puppy installed - then ya shoot the rifle to determine the change in POI...... I may not know much but I recognize BS when I see and hear it so what are you shoveling here? mike eta - BTW - how can "all" possibilties be exhausted IF you have not bothered to shoot this rifle sans hush-puppy??????????? |
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First off... I am not sure why you think you need to be so fucking rude... but I'll entertain you. How about using black hills 52gr mhp, black hills 50gr vmax, black hills 55gr fmj, various federal, various remington ammo? I figured I had shot enough ammo through it to rule that out. Situations: 10 below 0 on bipod to 50f off sandbags. I DID shoot the fuckn thing with the suppressor off, but did not pay much attention to group size simply because I knew I would be leaving a suppressor on there permanently. Now unless you have something constructive to say... stay the hell out of my thread. I am about SICK of the suppressor forum. Seems like you stand a snowballs chance in hell of getting usefull information here anymore. Always somebody trying to be an asshole. Here wait... let me say something that you'll understand. "Gemtech sucks, I mean they aren't even all welded!" There... is that better? GOD FORBID we have some intelligent discussion about something that actually fucking helps somebody. What is BS is how you think you can post like you did... and get away with it. I shoulda fuckn known better than to post in this useless goddamn suppressor forum. ... and all this attitude coming from a guy that DOESNT EVEN FUCKN OWN A SUPPRESSOR by his own admission. 
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well excuse me....... mike ps - perhaps you'd get better responses by being abit more truthful and honest with your questions, but then why anyone from this forum would help you w/ your attitude is beyond me - I just simply pointed out that your comments in the OP were conflicting and contradicting, making you look like my sigline. |
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There isnt a SINGLE THING that was untruthful about my post. NOTHING was conflicting. ... and you deserve EVERY SINGLE BIT of the attitude I threw right back at you. You could have been a man about it and owned up to your bullshit, but instead you come back in here trying to DEFEND your bullshit. You had further questions... then you should have asked them without coming off like a fuckn prick. So keep coming in here and posting shit that has NOTHING to do with my OP. I mean after all, we wouldnt want to turn this suppressor forum into something USEFUL now would we? You had a choice: 1) Be helpful 2) Be an asshole You chose option 2. I will treat you accordingly. Must I remind you that you DON'T EVEN OWN A GODDAMN SUPPRESSOR!?!?!?!?! WTF are you doing in my thread? CAUSING BULLSHIT... thats what. MODS... for the love of all that is holy... delete these fuckn useless posts and help me get my thread back on track. |
MODS, please do not delete this post. I was having a bad day and this really brightened me up! Orkan, This is a little off track but I've got to say that 2 MOA is pretty damn good shooting....I know there are a lot of guys on the board that shoot .2 MOA groups all the time with their 16" AR but that's just not my experience.....4 MOA with a COLT M4 using 855 is very good shooting, IMO. Is your rifle free floated? Trigger? Are you shooting with a bipod or from a rifle rest? These factors, amongst others, will effect your accuracy. A good clean 2 stage trigger and FF the BBL will up the accuracy. Let me know how your range session goes this weekend. Based on your 2 MOA results previously I'd say you can rule out baffle strike or mount issues.... As for your OP.....My experience is that a suppressor doesn't effect accuracy as much as POI. If I remember correctly I had a 6-8" drop at 100m on an M-4 with a Knight Can but groups remained about the same size. I'm also currently shooting a MP5 clone with a Trident and 25M accuracy (as well as POI) is unchanged. |
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Thanks for the helpful post pdm! :) I agree that 2moa is pretty good, just was looking for better! I'm one of those guys that has a couple other AR's that shoot sub MOA. Kinda what I've come to expect. (right or wrong) I'll see if I can answer your questions here. barrel is floated using YHM quad rail guards Shot from both a bipod and sand bags. (same way I shot when getting sub-moa with other rifles) Triggers - I tried a RRA 2 stage, JP complete, and a chip mccormick. Just grabbed 2 of my other lowers and stuck them on this upper. Trigger made no difference in accuracy. With the worst ammo, it shot 3moa, with the best ammo, it shot just a cunt hair over 2moa. I was aware of the POI shift due to suppressor, and as I was planning to leave it on this one permanently, that part didnt concern me. I had planned to use this thing as a backup prairie dog gun, but unless I can get it to shot moa or better I'm gonna have to sell it. I'll be sure to report when I get it to the range. |
| My very limited experience. Informal range shooting on paper with a friends Stevens bolt gun and a SWR Specwar. Without the can and shooting Wolf, got average Wolf groups. With the can, groups tightened up. I would'nt have believed it if I had'nt seen it. We were'nt measuring groups, just sighting in. The Suppressed groups were definitely tighter. I was under the impression Suppressors helped accuracy, that's what I saw. I'm still waiting on the ATF for my can, don't have my own .223 can yet. |
Obviously testing the barrel without the can and comparing results will help you find a conclusion. Different bullet weights inside the suppressor will yield different accuracy results because of how the gas moving through the suppressor impacts different length bullets at different velocities. That's trial and error, and is something that will be different from one barrel length to another because of the varying volume and velocity of gas, and different velocities of bullets of various weights. Basically you are the only person who can answer your question, but you will see significantly better results with a better barrel. If you need 1/2MOA, it better be a floating Stainless, heavy match grade barrel, and you will want a good trigger, high-quality optics, and premium ammunition too. Good accuracy from a new chrome lined M4 profile barrel is probably 1.25MOA. Stainless heavy barrels will commonly produce 1/2MOA or better results. (Obviously free floated, good trigger, steady position, quality optics and good environmental conditions.) I'd say under 1MOA is very attainable performance for most shooters. |
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Unfortunately the same conclusion that I had come to green0. :) For optics... I was using a leupold 6.5-20x50 LR/T with the varmint reticle. (very fine) ... so I know the optic was up to par. It was mounted in a larue tactical mount. Also shot using a leupold VX-III 1.5-5x20 (30mm tube) as well. Neither scope shot better than the other. That black hills ammo I was shooting does .25moa out of my olympic stainless ultra-match barrel of the same length. So I know it shoots damn well. I have several other heavy barrel match-grade AR's as well. This was my first light AR. Guess I should have had a more realistic expectation going into it. I don't expect my groups to get better when I take the can off... but I will be testing it anyway. Thanks very much for your info! |
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