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I was contacted by a manufacturer about the correspondence I had with IWI. I passed all the info I had on, and got them talking with a US rep for IWI. Last I heard things were moving slowly forward, but that was several months ago. I was asked not to post the company name online so I won't, but I will say that I had not heard of them before. Hopefully it is working out, but if not I think it would be a great project for Kent.
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Damn... I would love to know if the Tavor made it into the US. So I can sell my truck and buy a bicycle to save gas money for the Tavor.he |
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Kent would have serious problems doing the Tavor as it is freshly pantented and protected. TPD USA would have to purchase the license to make it here in the States. They are already selling them in Canada, but they don't have our ass9 import restrictions (although they have other dumb restrictions). Things are going to move VERY slowly on the Tavor and my guess is that we'll see the SCAR and Masada comes out long before the Tavor here in the US.  The Import Ban sucks, is unConstitutional, and does ZERO good.  |
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Kent would have serious problems doing the Tavor as it is freshly pantented and protected. TPD USA would have to purchase the license or be given it to make Tavors here in the States. They are already selling them in Canada, but they don't have our ass9 import restrictions (although they have other dumb restrictions). Things are going to move VERY slowly on the Tavor and my guess is that we'll see the SCAR and Masada comes out long before the Tavor here in the US. The Import Ban sucks, is unConstitutional, and does ZERO good. |
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Kent would have serious problems doing the Tavor as it is freshly pantented and protected. TPD USA would have to purchase the license or be given it to make Tavors here in the States. They are already selling them in Canada, but they don't have our ass9 import restrictions (although they have other dumb restrictions). Things are going to move VERY slowly on the Tavor and my guess is that we'll see the SCAR and Masada comes out long before the Tavor here in the US. The Import Ban sucks, is unConstitutional, and does ZERO good. |
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My guess is that we will see a Tavor here eventually. If the Israeli army is serious about switching at least some of its units to Tavors then it is in there best interest to have a partner manufacturing them over hear so they can use our Foreign Military Aid money to by them. It's my somewhat vague understanding that the deal with Barrett fell through because IWI was demanding an absurd license fee for the rights to produce the rifle. I'm pretty sure that tidbit of data came from here or another gun board so take it for what it's worth. |
Considering the abortion-candidate that the original Barrett production prototype was, I'm kind of glad the deal fell through. That thing was ass-ugly. I like the "real" Tavor, though I wish they would've positioned the charging handle to enable it to accomodate a 12-o'clock top rail. The 45-deg right-side skewed forearm rail is kind of bizarre, though I'm sure it works for a flashlight. |
The Meprolight is OK for CQB work, much like an Aimpoint M2, but I think the M21's yellow dot is bigger (something like 8 MOA), which is very bad for precision work. Apparently, the cdn importer (http://www.canadaammo.com/) doesn't have a choice. IWI and Meprolight forced by contract that the first cdn batch of Tavors be equipped with the M21. Anyway, it's a picatinny rail under it... For the non-citizen purchase question ask CanadaAmmo (see link above) and/or contact directly the canadian firearms center (our BATF) : http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/faq/import_e.asp |
Short answer: after takeup, the trigger pull is heavy (at least 7 lbs), but it's crisp, and much less grit than the AR trigger from a cheapo DPMS LPK. Certainly does not compare to a NM trigger. From what i've seen in the armorer's manual, the hammer seems lighter than a standard AR trigger (much like a 9mm hammer or JP hammer), so i suspect lock up time to be quicker than with a standard AR trigger group. If you log into www.canadiangunnutz.com you'll find a good range report. Here's a copy of the first post: A big thanks to Tiriaq and Canada AMMO from out in BC who provided us a chance to test 'drive' the TAVOR rifle. Wow what a nice piece of kit. Damn... I gotta get me one of these... Okay, here are some observations, but from a rifleman's point of view , or rather a competitive rifleman's POV. Remember, I ain't a Kommando, doorkicker, ERT Specialist, or mall ninja. I'm merely a simple rifleman... who competes past 100m (that's for the mirror kommandos on this forum). Prone position: Damn this baby is steady. Lots and lots of head shots (fig 11) at 100m. Resting the magazine (bullpup) on the ground and then supporting that bizarre pistol grip/guard was so steady. Man, I could not go wrong in this position. Target rifle shooters who traditionally shoot off their elbows ain't gonna like this position at all. This rifle allows you to really put those bullets where they are gonna count. I was impressed... Damn, I was a hero... Sitting position: Cross legged position just loved the TAVOR. I was so rock steady. I could not go wrong. This rifle loved to be cradled in the cross legged sitting position that I so dearly love with my M14 tuned for NRA High Power competitions. Mag changes were so sweet to do with my left (weak) hand, just cant the rifle over to the right diagonally and away you go. Kneeling position: Old school shooters who place their elbow near the top of their knees will absolutely love this bullpup. It just loved to shoot from this position too. Mag changes are done very close to the chest, luckily all my mags (well, they were supplied by Tiriaq) dropped free, but my STRIKE Molle vest was very close to getting in the way. Not as fast mag changes as with my AR, but hey, this rifle loves me... My dick might fall off if I don't get one. CQB in the center of my belly style: This position is reminiscent of shooting the folding stock'ed SMG ... just place the submachine gun against your tummy and let 'er rip. This TAVOR liked to shoot. It was too easy to walk my bullets into the fig 11. I gotta get me one of these. Standing Position (offhand) The bottom of the pistol grip guard combination was soooo easily supported by my left hand (I shoot right handed). Man, this baby loved to be shot from the standing position. No having to cheat by resting my elbows on my 84 pattern webbing magazine pouches. Speaking of pistol grip, the shape kinda reminds me of the Smith and Wesson M&P that SS109 showed me at the OSA Fun match last Saturday. I have a medium sized hand, this pistol grip was the cat's ass. It's made for ME !! Large storage compartment, but that requires a bullet tip or blunt butt of my KISS CRKT folding knife. At least it ain't gonna come apart at the wrong time. I gotta get me one of these..... Druthers: Yeah, the Meprolight 1X red dot (illum . by tritium) covered the FACE of the the 'running man' on the fig 11 or fig 12 target at 100m. Tiriaq reminded me that the red dot in this optic was 8 MOA give or take. Wow, how can anyone miss? I would have liked to chat with the IWI (Israeli) Engineers and discuss modifying a Pic rail for the top of the TAVOR so that we operator wannabes can choose our own optics for whatever budget, mission, competition we find ourselves. The bolt hold open device (hey, I'm a C1A1 kinda guy) or bolt catch was tougher to engage when a magazine was NOT inserted in the mag well, that was almost a 3 handed affair.. could get better with practice and less drooling on my part. The price ? This is cutting into my Harley fund... I might have to pass on the DYNA Fat Bob and buy a Sportster 1200 Nightster. Hey, the trigger was long and heavy, but this is a Kombat rifle, not a match shooter. Once I learned to (any paintballers here?) sweet spot that disconnector, I could double tap like any operator (I'm so KOOL...). What a pro this rifle made me look like. The trigger break is CLEAN , and that's a bonus. I still would take one of these if it was issued to me... Hey, am I too old to join the IDF ? Rave ON ! I loved the large magcatch that both hands could not miss. No accidental mag drops either. Very loose mag well, but no excessive rattling of the aluminum USGI mags. Even Tiriaq's lone Thermold (old CF issue) magazine dropped out smoothly. This baby loves to point. It felt so natural in my arms. I just adored how this rifle fit me in all my shooting positions. Nothing awkward. Hey, I could shoot this in a Service Rifle match or TWO .... if and only if I could adapt an ACOG TA31F to mount on top.... Look out 200m, 300m and 500m stages. Then look out CQB matches. Hey, I would love to play with this rifle in a Falling Plates match. You CF soldiers / shooting team fellas will know what I mean by Falling Plates matches. Being a bullpup design, and I'm an old school Service Rifle shooter, I was expecting to get burned because the ignition and chamber is directly beneath your cheek. Not a single hint of getting burned. The brass pops out about 6' to the right and 90 degrees... kinda like my old HBAR (Colt)... Yes, I did own Colts long ago. The brass was tossed out in fairly concentrated area. No dings, no dents on the brass. Nice and pretty like the AR15 ejection patterns... remember when HK91's and HK93's ejected their brass casings ? The TAVOR is nice to your brass. Conclusion: My dick will fall off. I need to get one of these. Earthpigs of Southern Ontario look the fzck out !! Heeeere kitty kitty kitty !! Well, actually the trigger could use tweaking (shorter takeup) for precision shooting groundhogs. Hey, this is not a restricted rifle, so in reality you could go hunting with this TAVOR. It's a cool design. Lots more to like than when I witnessed some Krazy magazine (jams) changes with an FN2000 at Milcun one carbine match last fall. There you have it... Oh yeah, accuracy ? The Israeli engineers took a familiar looking AR15 straight line design and tweaked it... it appears to me. We could not do any serious grouping with the 8MOA red dot, but I'm going to let Grendel chime in here. He was grouping really well. He knows how to squeeze a trigger... after all, he's won several Sniper matches at NSCC in Connaught. Cheers, Barney |
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I would only like to add that the only major drawback that we found is the side-ejection which prevents the shooter to quickly change firing shoulder (well actually you can try it, if you don't care about receiving hot brass in the teeths !). However, since this issue mostly applies to mil/LE professionals and action shooting games enthusiasts (IPSC/PPC), it's of no real concern for casual plinking, target and varmint shootin'. |
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I don't get it. The Israelis currently use every variation of M-16 & M4 you can imagine - all direct impingement. The no longer buy Galils & only use them for reserve gaurd duty - not frontline new-production weaponry. If they know the DI system (and everyone KNOWS DI is better), why did they use a gas piston system on the Tavor? Could it be better than the M16's DI system?? 
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Say DI is better than piston driven in the AK forums. I want to watch. Wait a minute because I need to microwave some popcorn first. P.S. Know why the Israelis have all those funky AR variants? Cause we give them our surplus/experimental crap for free. Free always beats expensive, especially when your frontline troops see so much action that they wear out parts constantly. They have some WORN looking ARs out there. |
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At least 500rds (and probably more) were put thru that Tavor during our test shoots. It took me under 10 minutes to do a decent "combat-ready" cleaning job. To reach the same level of cleanliness with an AR15 (for the same quantity of ammo), it would have taken me more than 20 minutes. I'm no newbie; I have 15 years of infantry experience with the C7A1 (cdn variant of the M16A2), and of course my own AR15. So there's at least one big advantage of the piston system over DI: 2 times faster cleaning. |
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Here is the message I recently received from IMI in regard to the Tavor being released in America. hanknetwork in the USA, we are planning to have one around 2009. Sincerely, Karina Eidelman Marketing Coordinator ----- Original Message ----- To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 6:38 PM Subject: Tavor Question > Good Afternoon, > > Could you please tell me if you have plans to import the Tavor into the United States? I have recently seen pictures of the model released in Canada. At one time, I had heard that Barrett Inc. was a possible partner to distribute this rifle. Is this still a possibility? The Tavor could be a very successful platform in America. > > Thank you |
2009? Man, that's a loooong way off
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I would ask if that is for civilian sales, because they would need to make a good portion of it here(import ban). They may be planning for simple export for LE sales. |
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Yeah, even Steyr Mannlicher will be exporting A3s after December (stupid slap on the wrist for making a legal sale to Iran back in 2004) to LEOs, but they'll still be banned from civilian purchase. My guess is the 2009 date will be for LEOs and we'll have to wait a few years to see civilian sales if ever. It would be nice to see civilian sales though start in 2009 and if they started working today that is probably how long it would take them to cut through ATF red tape and build-up the distribution network here in the USA for sales and possible 922r parts. However, I'd rather wait for a real Tavor than end-up with some ugly rifle like the SL8 that was suppose be the civilian version of the G-36 with its 10 round mags. Maybe we'll get lucky and Fred Thompson will become President and push for a repeal of the import ban or force the ATF to relax restrictions? Maybe the Supreme Court will issue an opinion that support the Parker case and we'll be able to overturn the damn import ban. |
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Duke & Frogster - yes, those were the replies I was looking for. People respect the Israel Defense Force and their choice of weapons. What they overlook is the fact that the IDF uses the M16 & M4 because: 1) they're FREE and 2) lighter than the galil. What most fail to realize is that when given the choice to design a new weapon with either DI or piston (BOTH systems the IDF knows well), they chose a piston for their Tavor. Just like Sig. Or H&K. Or the Soviets. Or the Chinese. Or the Indians. Or the Brits. Or the French. Or the Koreans. Or the Tiawanese. Or the South Africans. Or the Americans using M14s. Funny how some react to their DI system like its a gift from God. |
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