Armory Sponsor
The Klobb (vz. 61 Skorpion) Picture and Discussion Thread (Page 17 of 20)
|
Originally Posted By timkel: The Bowman Arms threaded barrel is quite nice. Installation was a breeze. https://i.postimg.cc/zXxZqXyf/Vz61-Thrd-Brl.jpg I agree, I used a Bowman kit, the barrel was a breeze. |
|
Finally got my threaded barrel and adapter back from hitman. Rugged obsidian 9 in short config Attached File Attached File You tube short |
"Government is like a baby. An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other."
Ronald Reagan
Ronald Reagan
|
New czar build with a Bowman kit. Had some feeding issues at first. Smoothed out after a few mags. Working up the courage to do a reweld. Attached File |
Make Florida Great Again
United States of America. You mean Florida and it's 49 bitches.
They call me the Machine-ish. "Close tolerances are overrated."
United States of America. You mean Florida and it's 49 bitches.
They call me the Machine-ish. "Close tolerances are overrated."
|
VZ58 USA makes a good brace for the VZ61. You can set it to fold as LH or RH. https://www.vz58usa.com/product/vz-61-skorpion-brace-adapter-1913-with-si-fsa-single-folder-brace/ |
|
Originally Posted By timkel: VZ58 USA makes a good brace for the VZ61. You can set it to fold as LH or RH. https://www.vz58usa.com/product/vz-61-skorpion-brace-adapter-1913-with-si-fsa-single-folder-brace/ thats a strike industries $200 from their site |
"Government is like a baby. An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other."
Ronald Reagan
Ronald Reagan
|
Any of you had a chance to shoot Czech service ammo for the VZ-61? I know it was steel jacketed, but I've never seen any. Recently, I read something online that I'm highly skeptical of. The fellow claimed that the service load used a heavier than standard case, and produced a velocity of 1,200 fps! If that were really the case, I think we would have all heard warnings to avoid Czech ammo in the common .32 ACP pocket pistols. Regardless, I presume there was a large stock of that ammo when the VZ-61s were discarded. It would be interesting to know what happened to it. I presume it was not permissible to import here. It would be nice to have just a few boxes to go along with the "Czech Mosquito" for display and testing. |
|
Originally Posted By cms81586: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/2980/IMG_8719_png-3510342.JPG Sweet! |
[NO TEXT]
|
anyone have an extra red dot mount they would part with? one that mounts up front using the front sight to stabilize. Also i found a ISLE lower rail mount and angle grip. Are these worth anything since ISLE barely makes anything anymore Attached File |
"Government is like a baby. An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other."
Ronald Reagan
Ronald Reagan
|
Originally Posted By timkel: The Bowman Arms threaded barrel is quite nice. Installation was a breeze. https://i.postimg.cc/zXxZqXyf/Vz61-Thrd-Brl.jpg Most 9 cans aren't designed to seat with no shoulder. I'll be curious to see how many people ruin a can with that. Edit: but it would make a nice 3-lug option. I'd continue the threading until a 3-lug adapter can completely bottom out. |
|
Originally Posted By CKxx: Most 9 cans aren't designed to seat with no shoulder. I'll be curious to see how many people ruin a can with that. Edit: but it would make a nice 3-lug option. I'd continue the threading until a 3-lug adapter can completely bottom out. Originally Posted By CKxx: Originally Posted By timkel: The Bowman Arms threaded barrel is quite nice. Installation was a breeze. https://i.postimg.cc/zXxZqXyf/Vz61-Thrd-Brl.jpg Most 9 cans aren't designed to seat with no shoulder. I'll be curious to see how many people ruin a can with that. Edit: but it would make a nice 3-lug option. I'd continue the threading until a 3-lug adapter can completely bottom out. I just used a 'precision' stop nut and an overbored can for mine to play around with it. In the future I'll probably go 3-lug. |
"My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori." -Wilfred Owen
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori." -Wilfred Owen
|
Mildly related…was given my grandfathers FN 1910/22. It’s also in .32 Auto. Pairs well with the VZ… Attached File |
|
Originally Posted By cms81586: Mildly related…was given my grandfathers FN 1910/22. It’s also in .32 Auto. Pairs well with the VZ… https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/2980/IMG_9347_jpeg-3538034.JPG Nice. I have a funny story about FN 1922s. During the COVID/Riot days when the shelves were bare and everyone was scared - A woman came into the shop looking for ammo for this gun she had in the house. It was the only gun she had in the house, it was her fathers and she wanted to be able to use it in case something happened, she can't remember ever shooting a gun and just wanted ammo for it. She handed it over in a cardboard box - it was a Nazi/Waffanampt marked 1922 with holster, spare mag and capture paper letter. The letter was from her fathers commanding officer essentially stating he was allowed this item and he had captured it from a detained German Officer. I explained to her what it was and that not to sell it or be swindled out of it and frankly it had a lot of historic sentimental value for her and her family if they wanted to know. She had no idea other than it was an old gun. I did give her a personally owned box of 32 as I had stocked up for my VZ with cases in the mad rush of hoarding. I also told her to see the range officer for training classes if she wanted to learn how to shoot. I'd hate to see someone at a shop swap that for a Hotpoint and a box of 9mm for "security". Yeah you can make money from duping people of the value of their item - but when it comes to family heirloom guns - it feels right to see they get handed down. |
|
Originally Posted By cherenkov: Nice. I have a funny story about FN 1922s. During the COVID/Riot days when the shelves were bare and everyone was scared - A woman came into the shop looking for ammo for this gun she had in the house. It was the only gun she had in the house, it was her fathers and she wanted to be able to use it in case something happened, she can't remember ever shooting a gun and just wanted ammo for it. She handed it over in a cardboard box - it was a Nazi/Waffanampt marked 1922 with holster, spare mag and capture paper letter. The letter was from her fathers commanding officer essentially stating he was allowed this item and he had captured it from a detained German Officer. I explained to her what it was and that not to sell it or be swindled out of it and frankly it had a lot of historic sentimental value for her and her family if they wanted to know. She had no idea other than it was an old gun. I did give her a personally owned box of 32 as I had stocked up for my VZ with cases in the mad rush of hoarding. I also told her to see the range officer for training classes if she wanted to learn how to shoot. I'd hate to see someone at a shop swap that for a Hotpoint and a box of 9mm for "security". Yeah you can make money from duping people of the value of their item - but when it comes to family heirloom guns - it feels right to see they get handed down. It’s such a neat little gun. Mine I has the dirty birds as well (1943 production) and holster. I put new Wolff springs in it and I’m on the hunt for a magazine. My grandfather picked up a Colt 1903 pocket hammerless magazine at some point probably thinking it would fit but they’re about 1/8” too short. Found mags at Royal Tiger Imports but the one they sent me was complete trash… It’s cracked and only holds one round. Insert two or more and they all come spilling out. Insert may try tig welding it but the sheet metal is so thin I’ll probably end up blasting right through it. Since these have a mag disconnect safety I can single load rounds and use the Colt 1903 mag to disengage the safety to fire it though. It’s a really nice shooter. Like I said…pairs well with the VZ! Attached File |
|
Saw a thread in GD about these, read up on them, and got interested since I have a cz27 in 32acp. Is the bowman kit (parts kit, threaded barrel, and new receiver) really as simple as reassembling tab-a into slot-b? Is any significant work (machinging, etc) needed to remove full auto or does the new receiver take care of that? Does the stock install/work as intended (ie. it's not welded in the folded position or anything silly like that)? It seems like a reasonable price for what could be a fun gun if you already have 32acp in stock at your ammo fort - any other input to help decide? |
|
Originally Posted By Morgan321: Saw a thread in GD about these, read up on them, and got interested since I have a cz27 in 32acp. Is the bowman kit (parts kit, threaded barrel, and new receiver) really as simple as reassembling tab-a into slot-b? Is any significant work (machinging, etc) needed to remove full auto or does the new receiver take care of that? Does the stock install/work as intended (ie. it's not welded in the folded position or anything silly like that)? It seems like a reasonable price for what could be a fun gun if you already have 32acp in stock at your ammo fort - any other input to help decide? They’re easier than assembling an AR. If you’re using a new manufacture receiver you don’t even need any tools. New receiver takes care of the full auto concerns. The stocks are fully functional but will require a F1 SBR stamp to use. They’re a cool little gun, and even more fun if you’re willing to splurge for the Czechpoint .22 upper and some mags. I’ve shot my VZ61’s a few times with the original .32 upper to test fire but beyond that they get used as neat little .22’s. |
| I finally had a chance to handle and inspect a tortort receiver yesterday. I have to say that is "almost awesome." The dovetail and use of a steel safety are huge bonuses, but I don't know why they would opt for the incorrect selector markings or not finishing the hammer support detent hole. The overall fit and finish was a bit rough, with me having to debur a number of the holes for smooth operation of both the bolt catch and magazine catch. If they would correct the lack of detent hole, selector markings, and drill the rate reducer holes, it would be an absolutely stellar receiver. |
|
Ran some drills today with the 32s. Swapped from isle to vz58 rear rail and rds mount Attached File |
"Government is like a baby. An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other."
Ronald Reagan
Ronald Reagan
|
Charging handle on one side only? That's interesting. Just picked up a Beretta 84 myself, and added a threaded .32 barrel and Beretta Model 81 magazines. Fun to shoot, but not as quiet as I was hoping. Different suppressor on the way, but I'm not sure that will change anything. |
|
Originally Posted By QRB: Charging handle on one side only? That's interesting. Just picked up a Beretta 84 myself, and added a threaded .32 barrel and Beretta Model 81 magazines. Fun to shoot, but not as quiet as I was hoping. Different suppressor on the way, but I'm not sure that will change anything. extended handle on the right side. run it like an AK |
"Government is like a baby. An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other."
Ronald Reagan
Ronald Reagan
|
A little epoxy to clean up some rough spots…a little more sanding tomorrow after it cures…quick test fire…and she’s ready for paint. Attached File |
| Test fired today. This one is my brothers. We test fired with PMC Bronze and had some stovepipes and failures to eject. His kit was unfired so I’m guessing the recoil springs are stout…it definitely has more tension than my kits. Wasn’t locking the bolt back on the last round either. Leaving the bolt locked back for a couple weeks and going to look for some hotter ammo. |
|
Originally Posted By cms81586: Test fired today. This one is my brothers. We test fired with PMC Bronze and had some stovepipes and failures to eject. His kit was unfired so I'm guessing the recoil springs are stout it definitely has more tension than my kits. Wasn't locking the bolt back on the last round either. Leaving the bolt locked back for a couple weeks and going to look for some hotter ammo. |
|
Originally Posted By cms81586: Test fired today. This one is my brothers. We test fired with PMC Bronze and had some stovepipes and failures to eject. His kit was unfired so I’m guessing the recoil springs are stout…it definitely has more tension than my kits. Wasn’t locking the bolt back on the last round either. Leaving the bolt locked back for a couple weeks and going to look for some hotter ammo. These guns were designed to run on hot European 7.65mm Browning/32ACP. Just to give an example, Czech-made S&B 32acp FMJ has 176 ft/lbs of energy. To give some examples of other European manufacturers, Fiocchi FMJ is 160 ft/lbs, and similar numbers for Geco and Norma. PNC bronze is anywhere from 117-126 ft/lbs, which is typical for all the other domestic ammunition manufacturers. That means current production Czech S&B 32acp at 176 ft/lbs has almost 40% more energy. Part of this is because 32 ACP in the USA was typically not loaded above 130 ft/lbs. But you have a gun that was designed to run on hotter ammo so often using PNC is going to contribute to any functioning issues. I’m not saying that’s your problem and many times these guns will still run on the weak-loaded domestic ammo. However, running it that close to the lower end of functioning will make any other issues result in failure. Since the bolt won’t lock back, it’s another indication you might be running ammo way too weak. |
|
Somewhere in the pages of this long thread, you will find dicussion to that fact that the European spec 7.65 Browning ammo is not only a bit stiffer than American .32 ACP, but there are some subtle differences in the rim dimensions. Most seem to agree that you will have few if any problems shooting the VZ-61 if you will stick to PPU, Geco, Norma and similar. Mine has been run almost exclusively with PPU (Privi Partisan) and I've seen zero issues. I did have just a handful of ancient Remington .32 ACP, which functioned okay, but I try to stay with the Euro 7.65 Browning. Because my range lies in the deep woods, and the ground is covered in ferns and leaf litter, I don't find a very high percentage of my fired cases. But I did gradually collect some, so I thought it would be wise to get kitted up to load them. An RCBS carbide die set I found on the cheap, Berry's 71-grain plated bullets and 2.5 grains of WW-231 shoots very well. I did have to buy a Lee carbide crimp/body sizing die to make my finished ammo happy with the VZ-61 chamber. I have no burning desire to load all of the .32 ACP I shoot, but now that we are all so used to living in times of scarcity, I wanted to have a secondary source of ammunition. 
|
|
I’m gonna grab some S&B and test again. In the interim… Attached File |
|
Originally Posted By cms81586: Keep an eye on Bowman’s for when they do sales. I picked up 30 or so at $9/ea not long ago. You don’t need 30. I’ll give you $5 each for 10. lol |
"Government is like a baby. An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other."
Ronald Reagan
Ronald Reagan
|
Note a few items for Klob Folks: -Royal Tiger has bulk Czech 32 acp ammo - good ammo and in orders of 500 etc. worked out to be about $15/50 iI stocked up years ago on 32 but my supply was being used and bought into a bit more just in case their is an FRT for Klobs some day (fingers crossed) -Bowmans also has a sign up list for original Chrome barrels now that they can be imported probably the same ones they removed from kits - not a bad idea to have one for future projects, etc. |
|
Originally Posted By cherenkov: Note a few items for Klob Folks: -Royal Tiger has bulk Czech 32 acp ammo - good ammo and in orders of 500 etc. worked out to be about $15/50 iI stocked up years ago on 32 but my supply was being used and bought into a bit more just in case their is an FRT for Klobs some day (fingers crossed) -Bowmans also has a sign up list for original Chrome barrels now that they can be imported probably the same ones they removed from kits - not a bad idea to have one for future projects, etc. Print a SSCZAR frame with the trip and you'll have a FRT capable VZ61. That should eat away your stock of 32 pretty quickly! |
|
Originally Posted By evnash: ISO cheap 20rd mags https://bowmanarms.com/parts-kits/vz-61-klobb-20rd-mag/ Back in stock |
"My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori." -Wilfred Owen
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori." -Wilfred Owen
|
Originally Posted By Kornbread: Can anyone else not catch the new suppressor length barrels in stock? I got the email they were back but by the time I got around to ordering one they were OOS again! Crazy! Bowman just sent out an email on them being back. |
"My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori." -Wilfred Owen
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori." -Wilfred Owen
Bowman is selling OG barrels for $49. I got one and it dropped right into my kit and wasn't a challenge to install at all.  Since this was so easy, I ordered a Tortort receiver from Centerfire and some surplus Czech ammo. Is anyone selling semi trigger parts? Does anyone know what happened to the finish on the front of the barrel? |
|
Originally Posted By EagleArmsHBAR: Bowman is selling OG barrels for $49. I got one and it dropped right into my kit and wasn't a challenge to install at all. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/298/IMG_6032-3608524.jpg Since this was so easy, I ordered a Tortort receiver from Centerfire and some surplus Czech ammo. Is anyone selling semi trigger parts? Does anyone know what happened to the finish on the front of the barrel? My hunch is the barrels were originally removed to comply with Import rules, that recently Trump admin rescinded So they are perhaps pull wear from removal and Bowman as an importer probably had them in bonded warehouse or overseas storage still and imported them. Good military grade Chrome lined barrels at a great price. A little external wear won't hurt anything. |
| I can’t remember all the details but for some reason, I thought somebody mentioned or Bowman mentioned somewhere that they had to grind off the rings or something along those lines so maybe there’s some weird import determination that the ring on the barrels count as something that was screwing up the import so they had to remove them? I can’t tell for sure, but it looks like the colet ring has been ground off. |
|
Originally Posted By EagleArmsHBAR: Yeah, the ring is gone and that annoys me (what is the lug used for?). I have emailed Bowman. The ring is used to mount the suppressor they made for it originally. The suppressor has a collet mount, so it slides over the barrel, and then when the end of the suppressor is screwed down it locks onto that ring essentially. I wonder if for some reason there was some weird thing about importing barrels with a “suppressor mount“ and that’s why they did it or maybe it was an export issue in the country they were sending these from or something else. It’s never been an issue before so I just don’t quite get why they removed it unless they absolutely had to. Maybe they were in the process of trying to get these barrels re-imported before the import rules changed and removing the ring was somehow a material change to the nature of the barrel to where they thought it would clear them for entry. Which all of that maybe became moot when they allowed barrels to start being re-imported. Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File |
|
Originally Posted By agb104983: The ring is used to mount the suppressor they made for it originally. The suppressor has a collet mount, so it slides over the barrel, and then when the end of the suppressor is screwed down it locks onto that ring essentially. I wonder if for some reason there was some weird thing about importing barrels with a “suppressor mount“ and that’s why they did it or maybe it was an export issue in the country they were sending these from or something else. It’s never been an issue before so I just don’t quite get why they removed it unless they absolutely had to. Maybe they were in the process of trying to get these barrels re-imported before the import rules changed and removing the ring was somehow a material change to the nature of the barrel to where they thought it would clear them for entry. Which all of that maybe became moot when they allowed barrels to start being re-imported. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/97614/IMG_7609_jpeg-3609230.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/97614/IMG_7610_jpeg-3609231.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/97614/IMG_7607_jpeg-3609232.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/97614/IMG_7608_jpeg-3609233.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/97614/IMG_7611_jpeg-3609234.JPG Somewhere in my collection of junk I have an older Spear Arms Airsoft suppressor for an Airsoft vz-61 that has a collett lock I wonder how close it might be Here is a pic of what the Spear Arms Airsoft replica looked like - I think they must have been different dimensions usually airsoft is. 
|
|
Well I managed to get my magazine button stuck flush with my brand new receiver. I have no idea what to do. Is there a gunsmith that can save this, or is my receiver ruined? edit: got it together and functioning by hand. What a pain in the ass!  also, is the lever that is too long (the one that goes on the right side of the trigger group) required to be installed, or is it optional? |
|
Originally Posted By Baba_Rama_Nana: Any suggestions on where to look for a trigger guard? Maybe? |
The Klobb (vz. 61 Skorpion) Picture and Discussion Thread (Page 17 of 20)
Armory Sponsor