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Posted: 5/14/2010 9:05:54 AM EDT
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As far as I can tell, the mass and associated inertia of the trigger bars is the issue with making our rifles drop-safe. The easy solution was to make the trigger pull long and heavy.
A more elegant solution would be to incorporate a safety in the face of the trigger like Steyr's own M-series pistols, Glocks, XDs, and Accu-Trigger Savages have. Remove the the trigger and trigger bars' contribution to moving the slider when the rifle is dropped and shorter, lighter trigger operation could still be safe because the slider is light and has little inertia of its own. It would still need enough spring pressure to ensure reset but friction-reducing measures have already been demonstrated to be effective. Unfortunately, the molds to make new triggers and associated parts would be very expensive so this is likely to be beyond the reach of the aftermarket. Anyone have thoughts to share? Thanks, Lee |
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Just one. Keep your (generally speaking) big fingers out of the trigger guard and the drop safety is a non-issue. Why is it needed? I hear of more people discharging their Glocks unintentionally than most other guns. If you tell someone they don't need a safety because the gun is so safe, you get careless. I rarely hear of 1911 owners shooting themselves because they understand the risks of cocked and locked. Yet Glock owners are essentially half-cocked and locked unless they touch the trigger.
Its just not possible to idiot proof a gun. The "idiot" always finds a way around it. 
Sorry. not very helpful. was it?. |
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I totally agree with safety being more an issue of good training than gizmos but I also like the idea of a gun not discharging if dropped or tossed even with the manual safety disengaged. There should be no sausage fingers in the trigger guard during freefall...
Glocks have a drop safety feature and, yes, I've tossed a loaded Glock high in the air to land on concrete. Bullpups are unique with their long trigger linkages' inertia to contend with, unlike any of the guns I mentioned before. Just looking for another way to get drop safety without the long, heavy trigger pull. 
Thanks, Lee |
| The post reads more like he's looking for a mechanical drop safety. As in if I drop this rifle from the rear of the truck and it lands on the muzzle end with a round in the chamber is it possible for the firing pin to travel forward on its own causing the rifle to fire even though the weapon was on safe. If that is what's being considered here, I beleive the firing pin spring would keep this from happening. As to the trigger safety on a Glock, its been awhile but I think the trigger safety on Glock dosen't do much more than the safety on a MSAR. It just keeps the trigger from being pulled. If Im remembering correctly the Glock has two internal safetys, one of which is a drop safety. It would keep the Glock from firing in the above situation. As to whether the modifications to the trigger on a MSAR that are being discussed would work and result in a lighter trigger pull, Im not going to speculate. It seems to me that the key to a lighter trigger pull would be in the trigger pack itself and not the trigger or trigger bars. I have limited knowledge here but it appears that the heavy pull comes from the trigger bars over coming the spring pressures in the trigger pack, not the trigger bars or trigger?????? |
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Quoted:
I was told somewhere along the way that the reason for the semi AUGs long trigger pull was because it is a two stage trigger on the full auto versions. You are correct In a full auto AUG, pulling the trigger back halfway is semi, all the way is full auto. My buddy who was a liason to and embedded with some Aussie troops said the Aussies can always tell a guy's first time in combat, as he almost invariably empties the entire first mag when trying to shoot a single shot.
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My explanation-fu is weak...
Certainly, part of the AUG trigger pull is the select-fire function but bullpups, in general, are notorious for bad triggers. Drop safety and reliable reset require strong springs due to the extra inertia and friction of the long linkages. Reduce the friction and the spring can be lighter and still give reliable reset but will greatly diminish the drop safety of the rifle. Incorporate a device to keep the trigger and bars from moving unless pressed by a booger-hook on the bang-switch and you only have to contend with the slider's tiny inertia if the rifle falls butt-first. It seems, to me, to be more hazardous if the rifle discharges pointing up at the person who dropped it than into the ground. The AUG does have an inertial drop safety in the hammer pack that functions for muzzle-first impacts. It doesn't stop the firing pin from moving forward, but stops the slider from moving rearward. Like an AR, the firing pin does not have enough inertia to activate a primer on it's own if the rifle is dropped from a reasonable height. The addition of a firing pin spring is even safer. The risk of tweaking a bullpup's trigger pull is that it might discharge if dropped on its butt. I gave mine a few good raps on the carpet after my second try at reducing the spring pressure and it would release the hammer every time. I increased the spring pressure a bit and tried again. The hammer would fall but he bolt would also retract more from it's inertia, which might result in the cocking piece shielding the firing pin from the hammer enough to prevent a successful primer strike. The only way to really test it is with primed cases, which I don't, yet, have. The Glock's drop safety is a narrow portion of the slot in the left side of the fire control housing where the left leg of the cruciform plate rides. Unless the trigger is to the rear, the sear can't drop down, releasing the striker. Simple, brilliant, effective. The idea of a trigger safety on a bullpup with a manual safety is for a completely different reason than on a handgun without one. Probably clear as mud now...
Thanks, Lee |
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K.I.S.S.
remove the spring from the drop safety. bend a new spring that will keep the neutral position of the safety. raise the cutout of the sear side to match the lower portion. This will let the drop safety rock in both directions. Now, no matter which way the impact occurs the inertial safety will block the sear from moving backward. Problem solved. |
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Quoted:
K.I.S.S. remove the spring from the drop safety. bend a new spring that will keep the neutral position of the safety. raise the cutout of the sear side to match the lower portion. This will let the drop safety rock in both directions. Now, no matter which way the impact occurs the inertial safety will block the sear from moving backward. Problem solved. I've been thinking along the same lines... 
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Quoted:
What would happen on recoil though. I can imagine the safety rocking backward from the impact into the shooters shoulder and blocking the follow up shot. The slider would be past the drop safety's tab at that point so it couldn't move down to engage it. If it would be a problem during recoil, it would already be a problem because the recoil impulse would tend to activate it just the way it comes from the factory but the slider blocks it once the trigger is pulled. If one were shooting very fast with a drop safety modified as discussed, it could be possible for it to bounce up and stop the slider during counter-recoil if the drop safety spring was too light. Not sure I have the cojones to start cutting pieces that I may not be able to replace without buying an entire hammer pack... Thanks, Lee |
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