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Posted: 8/25/2010 8:01:44 AM EDT
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Is it OK? The reason I ask is that when I trim down to 1.744, then resize,
they stretch out to the 1.751-1.752 that I'm looking for. That size is per a Vihtavouri loading. Thanks. |
| The more precise way to do it is size and then trim. Otherwise, you're trimming it down to a length and hoping that when you resize, the neck expander will drag it back to a consistent length. A little more or less lube on a given case can change how much the neck lengthens when it's sized. |
| You really should resize and then trim. The way you're doing it, you are counting on the stretching that occurs during the resizing process to wind up at approximately the length that you want. Besides, I don't know what other guys are experiencing, but getting that much stretch during resizing would bother me. Are you applying lube to the inside of the case necks when you resize? |
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Yeah, lubing inside the necks also.Trouble is that when I size first, I can't get the guide down
the neck to trim. I am using the little hand held from Lee, all I could afford at the time. I am using RCBS dies, and have them set up per their specs. The cases are coming out +/- .001 of my goal after sizing, so nothing crazy going on. I am checking each one after they come out of the sizer. I am also wondering on the stretching. Is that normal for a case to stretch that much when sizing? All advice taken. Thanks. |
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How are you getting a 1.744 trim with the Lee? It isn't adjustable...
FWIW, I trim before sizing on plinking / blasting ammo that I pump out of the 550. It's FMJ and all I'm really worried about is safe. I've satisfied myself that ammo produced by my process never grows enough to be unsafe in my rifles. I do not endorse this process for anyone else. If you choose to go this way, you need to ensure that the amount of stretch you get never makes a problem in your rifles. For target ammo that I produce on a Rock Chucker, I trim after sizing as I'm looking for best consistency in my product. |
| You can trim before you resize, but the length will change when you resize. If you take the change into account when you trim, you can do pretty good. Variables enter when using range brass that was shot in different rifles and which will change in different amounts when you finally resize. My experience with range brass is that it almost always needs trimming. |
I haven't used Lee's trimmer, I have really fancy ones. 
I remember when I used RCBS's hand operated trimmer and the pilots were too tight to trim with. I simply removed the pilots and chucked them in a drill. I spun them at high speed while applying extra fine emery cloth. I tested and retested until the pilot would just fit inside the resized case neck and not bind at all. Don't ever fight with your tools or equipment. The manufacturer's have to make products that will work for everyone. Your particular circumstances may require a little modification to smooth up the process. A little lube never hurts either. Just don't overdo the metal removal, it's vvery hard to put back. I always trim after resizing, it's the only consistent way it can be done. I get a wide variation in case stretching upon resizing when I use pick up range brass or buy surplus once fired. Not as much when fired from the same rifle, especially bolt actions. I try to resize just enough to safely work. This doesn't work the brass as hard and keeps the stretching down to a dull roar. |
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How are you getting a 1.744 trim with the Lee? It isn't adjustable... +1 Whats up with that, mine trims to 1.752" Somethings not right. The farther down you screw the guide into the cutter, it cuts deeper. I have it down to where it is trimming to that length I mentioned. 20 brass have been done this way. I shoot for 1.752 and get this 75% of the time when I trim,then size. The rest fall into the +/- .001 range. It is consistent when I trim first, and then size. I have measured each and every case after sizing. I am just going to throw down for a real trimmer this weekend, so I quit doing it like this. Lyman trimmer sound OK from Midway? http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=795961 |
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I've seen that happen with older Lee trimmer sets that have an aluminum pilot. The steel cutter eventually embeds itself into the softer houlder of the pilot, in effect shortening the length of the pilot. My newer Lee trimmers have Stainless Steel pilots, and I have seen no tendency for that to occur in them, but I still check them often. It really is nothing more than a small design flaw.
I like the way the Lee system centers itself in the case and trims so nice and square, but that situation needs to be addressed, (and perhaps their going to Stainlss Steel pilots vs. aluminum ones has solved that for Lee.) I'm not real happy with my Lyman trimmer, except for turning case necks. I simply cannot get real consistent trim lengths, no matter what I do. The stone simple Lee system has always worked better for me, (the aformentioned aluminum pilot issue notwithstanding...) |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How are you getting a 1.744 trim with the Lee? It isn't adjustable... +1 Whats up with that, mine trims to 1.752" Somethings not right. The farther down you screw the guide into the cutter, it cuts deeper. I have it down to where it is trimming to that length I mentioned. 20 brass have been done this way. I shoot for 1.752 and get this 75% of the time when I trim,then size. The rest fall into the +/- .001 range. It is consistent when I trim first, and then size. I have measured each and every case after sizing. I am just going to throw down for a real trimmer this weekend, so I quit doing it like this. Lyman trimmer sound OK from Midway? http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=795961 If you're screwing the trimmer pilot in that far, you've damaged it (actually cut it down with the cutter head). I prefer the RCBS trimmer. It has the lever case locking system and a 3 way cutter available to eliminate the chamfer and deburr. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=114864 |
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If my choice was the Lyman or RCBS, I would go with the RCBS.
The key to consistant OAL with a lathe type trimmer, is to use the same pressure every time when you trim. 
Set up for neck turning in this pic. eta, I clamp the trimmer in a vice, that's what the piece of wood is for. |
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#1 Giraud trimmers
a close #2 Gracey Match Prep the Gracey requires an aftermarket carbide 3-way cutter head to be competitive with the Giraud. The cost is only $30.00 for the better blades direct from his competitor Doug Giraud or through Bob Jones Sights. These trimmers are the "it" and most anything else is a little less than. They are not cheap. |
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If you want/need the utmost consistency in case length, you will need to size before trimming.
Of course, this is a pain on a progressive reloader, as you must interrupt the cycle, thereby defeating the point of a progressive press. If you are in this position, as I was this spring, you ask yourself, "do I want/need the utmost in consistency of case length?". If you are not trying to set any bench records and are not crimping in a conventional crimp/seater die, then you do not. I now decap, trim, then run through the progressive press without worry. I have always meant to check some of them for consistency in length after sizing, but I would mean interrupting the process, so I haven't yet bothered.
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