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Posted: 8/15/2011 7:35:37 AM EDT
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Got a bunch of Wolf primers in april: 223 SR, and the Small Pistol. Loaded up a batch of ammo same as always, and had a LOT of duds yesterday at the range. 6 out of 150 rounds of pistol (.40 SW), and 5 out of 200 rounds of rifle (.223 REM). The rounds had solid strikes on the primer cup, but the rounds failed to fire. [Sorry, no pictures, as they were immediately thrown into the range's dud box] Anyways, I called up PowderValley where I got it from to see if they could help, and they referred me to Wolf. Called Wolf, and they tell me that they're no longer honoring their original satisfaction guarantee on the primers. Apparently, all you used to have to do was call in to Wolf about faulty primers, and they would issue a refund. Unfortunately, the word got around and people started scamming them, so it's no longer working like that. Now, they require you to ship the faulty primers back to them- unfortunately, I have no way of doing this, as I don't have a HazMat shipping license; to the best of my knowledge, noone I know near me has that cert either.. They understand this problem in their logic, but they aren't willing to do anything about it. So right now, I'm sitting on about $200 worth of primers that I don't really want to use... Any suggestions? |
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I have the same problem. Bought 15,000 primers at Camp Perry Last year. Spent about $450 on primers. Even though the website guarrentees there ammo they do not guarrentee primers. Called Wolf and they said basically "Sorry"......I even said I would send them a photo of the primers......
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Quoted: I could be wrong, but if you ship the dud round back to Wolf, you do not need a HazMat shipping License. Think you only need that for primers and powder, but once the rounds are assembled, no HazMat. One way you can verify this is when you buy ammo, there is no HazMat fee.Got a bunch of Wolf primers in april: 223 SR, and the Small Pistol. Loaded up a batch of ammo same as always, and had a LOT of duds yesterday at the range. 6 out of 150 rounds of pistol (.40 SW), and 5 out of 200 rounds of rifle (.223 REM). The rounds had solid strikes on the primer cup, but the rounds failed to fire. [Sorry, no pictures, as they were immediately thrown into the range's dud box] Anyways, I called up PowderValley where I got it from to see if they could help, and they referred me to Wolf. Called Wolf, and they tell me that they're no longer honoring their original satisfaction guarantee on the primers. Apparently, all you used to have to do was call in to Wolf about faulty primers, and they would issue a refund. Unfortunately, the word got around and people started scamming them, so it's no longer working like that. Now, they require you to ship the faulty primers back to them- unfortunately, I have no way of doing this, as I don't have a HazMat shipping license; to the best of my knowledge, noone I know near me has that cert either.. They understand this problem in their logic, but they aren't willing to do anything about it. So right now, I'm sitting on about $200 worth of primers that I don't really want to use... Any suggestions? |
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Quoted:
Chicago burbs; Using a Hornady LnL AP. Don't think it's the press- I'm seating the primers all the way down and not just flush. Never had issues with Remington primers. Well I'm by Quincy so to far to work something out , was wondering which press as the only times I've seen people have problems they were all off of a 550 |
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Quoted: Yep, if the primers are loaded into casings, you don't need to pay Hazmat. However, I have boxes of free primers lying around, and loading all those primers into cases for the expressed purpose of shipping them back would be inefficient to say the least. I think you misunderstood what I was trying to suggest. The idea is to load some more and if you run across rounds that do not fire, sent those in as evidence of problem with the batch of primers. Now, if they are not working in good faith, that is not going to help you, but….. |
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Quoted: Would it be safe to ship a dud round? I'm a bit hesitant about it... I've always dropped off dud rounds into our range's heavy metal dud box as soon as it occurs. Dud rounds if they are going to go off will go off within a short time after the primer is hit. Keep it in your rifle and point it down range for 30 seconds. I guess its always possible for it to go off long afterwards but it is highly unlikely. There are always risks but the question is how much. For example, if you have a dud, how long do you wait before taking out the round? Even if you drop it into the range's heavy metal dud box, it could still go off when you take it out of the chamber and before you drop it in the box? |
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Ha...the chicken is coming home to roost!
Starting to see a bunch of 'dud Russian primer' posts lately. Looks like ol' Ivan's 'quality control' is starting to return to poo. Glad I never bought into the 'hype'. Some things you just don't go 'cheap' on. Have fun with the bullet pullers, suckas! Chris |
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Quoted:
Ha...the chicken is coming home to roost! Starting to see a bunch of 'dud Russian primer' posts lately. Looks like ol' Ivan's 'quality control' is starting to return to poo. Glad I never bought into the 'hype'. Some things you just don't go 'cheap' on. Have fun with the bullet pullers, suckas! Chris Yep our little group has bought right on 100K of them , 2 guys had said they had problems , I took them off their hands and never did have a problem with what I got from them. Will be getting another 25K soon |
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Quoted: Ha...the chicken is coming home to roost! Starting to see a bunch of 'dud Russian primer' posts lately. Looks like ol' Ivan's 'quality control' is starting to return to poo. Glad I never bought into the 'hype'. Some things you just don't go 'cheap' on. Have fun with the bullet pullers, suckas! Chris lol, then how do you explain my "Super Duper quality control" Small Pistol CCI's that have had 3 duds in the last 1k rounds of mine? They were all seated correctly, all were hit solidly by the firing pin multiple times and they still failed to go off. Other than some slight QC problems the last couple months, I have heard nothing but good things about the Wolf primers. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Ha...the chicken is coming home to roost! Starting to see a bunch of 'dud Russian primer' posts lately. Looks like ol' Ivan's 'quality control' is starting to return to poo. Glad I never bought into the 'hype'. Some things you just don't go 'cheap' on. Have fun with the bullet pullers, suckas! Chris lol, then how do you explain my "Super Duper quality control" Small Pistol CCI's that have had 3 duds in the last 1k rounds of mine? They were all seated correctly, all were hit solidly by the firing pin multiple times and they still failed to go off. Other than some slight QC problems the last couple months, I have heard nothing but good things about the Wolf primers. Been doing this for ~17 years, never, ever, had a dud primer and I use all of them: CCI new/old, Remington, Winchester new/old and Federal. Everybody makes a bad batch, here and there, as evidenced by CCI's recall of a batch of BR-4 LRPs, a couple of years back, but as I've said, I'm starting to read about more and more duds with the Wolfs. If they work for you, I'm glad. I'll stick with the USA made primers. Chris |
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Wolf/Tula primers have unsupported anvils. If you seat the primers only to flush with the bottom of the case, there's a chance the anvil may come loose during firing; this will cause the primer to not ignite. Therefore, with Wolf/Tula primers, you must seat the primers all the way down in the primer cup of the cartridge. However, when I seat my primers, I always make sure to seat my primers all the way down. Even doing this, the primers still failed to fire, which makes me think that the primer compound is faulty; but that makes even less sense- if the compound is faulty, shouldn't the entire batch of primers be bad? Why are only <1% of primers duds instead of the whole batch? |
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What is the lot number of your problem primers?
Wolf primers, like their ammo, are not made by Wolf. Wolf is a distributor, not a manufacturer. I think that is why some batches of Wolf primers have been suspect while others have worked perfectly for many people. |
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Quoted:
The only entity required to have haz-mat shipping liscense is the carrier. MidwayUSA uses UPS. I know for fact they are haz-mat certified anywhere in the United States. You cannot, as an individual, ship HAZMAT items unless you are a certified HAZMAT shipper, regardless of whether you use UPS, or some other carrier. You can't just drop a box of primers and powder off, at UPS, or FEDEX, either. Chris |
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http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/hazardous/responsible/requirements.html?WT.svl=SubNav
General Requirements DOT states that no person may offer or accept a hazardous material for transportation in commerce unless that person is trained in conformance with 49 CFR and the hazardous material is properly classed, described, packaged, marked, labeled, and in condition for shipment as required or authorized by applicable requirements of 49 CFR. UPS, however, imposes other general requirements on you as a contract hazardous materials shipper. |
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http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/hazardous/responsible/index.html?WT.svl=SubNav
Shipper's Responsibilities 49 CFR and IATA regulations describe the responsibilities of all U.S. shippers of hazardous materials. Compliance with these federal Hazardous Materials Regulations (HMR) and International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) are mandatory, and everyone directly or indirectly involved with hazardous materials is subject to these regulations. Violators face considerable civil or criminal penalties (see 49 CFR 107; subpart D, for baseline civil penalties and fines). The UPS Guide for Shipping Ground and Air Hazardous Materials describes your responsibilities as a shipper when preparing a hazardous material for transport with UPS. Your primary responsibility as a shipper is to comply with all the requirements of 49 CFR, IATA and with the requirements of your carrier. |
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I've already been through this and offer this up as a means. Not an end of a shipping argument.....
When I go to Texas this spring to see my son when he returns from Iraq I will be shipping ammunition via UPS from the hub. You guys can argue till your blue in the face. I'll be shipping ammunition, primers and powder shipped in factory packaging from Missouri to Texas. I live up to my neck in DOT regulations. In fact my ICC MC# is 667125. I sure didn't log in in here to debate my occupation's regulation requirements. So if you guys say it can't be done, well I guess it can't be done. 1911smith out. |
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Quoted:
I've already been through this and offer this up as a means. Not an end of a shipping argument..... When I go to Texas this spring to see my son when he returns from Iraq I will be shipping ammunition via UPS from the hub. You guys can argue till your blue in the face. I'll be shipping ammunition, primers and powder shipped in factory packaging from Missouri to Texas. I live up to my neck in DOT regulations. In fact my ICC MC# is 667125. I sure didn't log in in here to debate my occupation's regulation requirements. So if you guys say it can't be done, well I guess it can't be done. 1911smith out. Ammunition is no big deal. But the rest you can probably do because you have an ICC MC#, which most likely proves you have been trained and UPS accepts that for their purposes. Several other people have been told they can't ship primers and or powder because they don't satisfy UPS requirements for hazardous material shipping training. That training costs money and time which most people won't pay for in order to ship one or two times. It is kind of like the whole declaring a firearm thing. There is no federal law which states you must declare a firearm when shipping with UPS or FedEx, but the companies themselves do require it. |
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I have seen the issue of dud Wolf primers come up quite a bit in the last year and here is my experience FWIW-
Press used was a Dillon 550B and I found that all the Wolf primers are very hard to seat. Main reason for using them was because primers were hard to come by after the Obamamania. 2K Wolf large pistol primers in 45ACP, zero issues when fired in a couple of my 1911s. My friend had quite a few duds when reloading them with his Hornady LNL. 1K Wolf small rifle in 9mm, zero issues with HK P30 and 9mm 1911. (Yes, I typed rifle) 2K Wolf small pistol in 40 S&W. I had one failure to fire in my M&P40. 500 small rifle primers into 223 cases and had two failures to fire. The primer pockets on these were a little sloppy and I ran the Wolf primers because they seated better than Federal. After these experiences I feel that the Wolf primers are extra sensitive to seating pressure. If you don't get them in nice and solid then you will have issues. Lately I have been able to get some good deals on Federal and CCI primers so the added aggravation of Wolf is not worth it. |
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I'll look into it again and post a thread sometime when the urge arises. What I know from working with the feds, regulations are coming down the pike at a pretty fast rate with this administration.
Last year I flew to Texas and looked into this because the trip was kind of last minute. I checked with UPS mailing center and they said sure you can ship, only to get there and told, no you can't. So this turned into quite a bit of research before realizing that being down to the wire for time cost big bucks to ship expedited haz-mat. I never said one word about being in the business. I refuse to license for haz-mat and don't have a need now because my emphasis has turned to livestock. Anyway, side tracked. Back to the point. At that time line in history I could ship as long as it was declared and sealed in factory packaging. UPS in this instance becomes "shippers agent" and in doing so is responsible for adherence to DOT regulations. This has become such a can of worms that you can go to 5 different mailing centers and get 5 different answers and still not get a straight up answer. Not everyone is up to speed at hubs either. So, I'll check once more and report back. One last note..... don't ship components undeclared. I used to work at UPS while in school. Packages have a way of getting opened. Either abusive handling, poor packaging or random inspection and Haz-Mat is taken way, way seriously. |
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Quoted: One last note..... don't ship components undeclared. I used to work at UPS while in school. Packages have a way of getting opened. Either abusive handling, poor packaging or random inspection and Haz-Mat is taken way, way seriously. The guy I talked to from Wolf at one point asked me, "are you a gambler?" He was tactfully trying to suggest that I screw regs and ship the bad primers to him anyways. At which point I replied: Dont feel like paying a huge fine and risking jail or causing a Tom Hank's Castaway situation... [Re: Castaway was actually about a mislabeled hazmat container that detonated] |
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Quoted:
This is exactly why I have avoided Wolf. Sorry for your troubles. i would demand they take them back. This is not the first time and I venture to say, it won't be the last  But for every one of you, there are thousands of people that have used Wolf primers with no problems, at most times with an extremely lower price, and at other times since the election Wolf was the only brand available when the other companies simply couldn't keep up. Not to mention, when some of the other "established" names started pumping primers out again, they were also suffering from some quality issues. And their prices continue(d) to be elevated. |
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Quoted:
I'm not really in a position to demand anything at this point  . Unfortunately, the only people I can get back at financially would be Powder Valley, and I don't want to- they aren't really to blame for any of this.I don't know if I agree with that. I am willing to bet that PV, or any other seller of reloading components, can place a hell of a lot more pressure on Wolf than any of us could. Just think. We can decide not to buy 5, 10, or 50 thousand primers at a time, but them guys can refuse to buy an entire section of a warehouse worth of the same. And I am willing to bet you can fit at least 1 million primers on one pallet. In cases like this. Shit can in fact roll up hill. That is exactly how Wolf ammo, in general, was forced to raise their quality standards. There was a time that Wolf ammo was considered downright dangerous and almost guaranteed to cause failures in your firearms. After all the backlash, it became simply acceptable target ammo. |
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I bought 10K of the Wolf SRM Primers. I have probably a 1% to 2% failure rate. I still load them in my 55gr load and shoot them. The ones that dont go off get a 2nd try then pulled down and compentes salvaged. I am testing them in my 357 mag to see how they do. So far they are 100%, I have loaded less the 20 rounds with them so far. I hope they have fixed the problem and we don't get any more bad batches but every company has issues at one point or another.
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