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Posted: 6/14/2017 8:53:22 PM EDT
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Hey guys, what's the consensus of an absolute need to run an IFAK on your PC if you've got one on your battle belt? I'm just trying to get stuff off if my PC.
Should I just bite the bullet and keep one on my pc? I just can't find any position that I find comfortable that I can still reach. Plus it's extra weight. |
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Yes... another tourniquet at the very least! Quoted:
Yes... another tourniquet at the very least! Quoted:
Situation dependant. Two is one and one is none. Streamline your shit. One well stocked IFAK will suffice. In one place. I have mine on my belt because it allows me to keep valuable real-estate on my PC, and cuts way down on the shit that gets in my way when shooting, which is primary battlefield medicine anyway. Belt is also nice because if everyone else on my team is occupied, I can move the belt around to either side to access with either hand Two IFAKs have no purpose and add unnecessary weight and bulk to your kit. If additional medical supplies are going to be needed, it is either a situation you should not have put yourself into, or a situation in which someone in your group ought to be carrying an actual Aid Bag (see first situation) |
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Quoted:
Hey guys, what's the consensus of an absolute need to run an IFAK on your PC if you've got one on your battle belt? I'm just trying to get stuff off if my PC. Should I just bite the bullet and keep one on my pc? I just can't find any position that I find comfortable that I can still reach. Plus it's extra weight. I keep one good IFAK in the small of my back on my belt and i have a bleeder kit in a single close top at mag pouch behind my right arm. It has a red cross and if needed it can be used to help someone else. I don't imagine if I ever need my PC I'll have the luxury of only being around armed equipped people with their own IFAKs. |
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I do a 2 cell bleeder and 2 TQs, on my PC. Each bag I have gets an actual FAK of varying sizes.
I have a range belt that gets a bleeder/TQ, and a combat belt that just gets another TQ. Reason being I use a lighter belt for ranges and training others that I want to be standalone without always having a PC on. |
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I run one on each. Reason is sometimes I run belt without armor or may have to run armor without belt (no time to put on belt) An IFAK can be incredibly small. Look at Cleer Medical or the smallest BFG as examples. I carry IFAK on front of one cummerbund, TQ on the other. On my belt TQ is inside the IFAK on lower back due to space issues. Also carry a SWAT T in cargo pocket per department policy.
I'm a firm 2 IFAK / 2 TQ proponent. What if your injury is getting shot through the IFAK? Also since I run minimized IFAKs, 2 has more gauze, which is a bulky item, so I don't have a lot. |
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Quoted:
I run one on each. Reason is sometimes I run belt without armor or may have to run armor without belt (no time to put on belt) An IFAK can be incredibly small. Look at Cleer Medical or the smallest BFG as examples. I carry IFAK on front of one cummerbund, TQ on the other. On my belt TQ is inside the IFAK on lower back due to space issues. Also carry a SWAT T in cargo pocket per department policy. I'm a firm 2 IFAK / 2 TQ proponent. What if your injury is getting shot through the IFAK? Also since I run minimized IFAKs, 2 has more gauze, which is a bulky item, so I don't have a lot. |
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Quoted:
no. No. Streamline your shit. One well stocked IFAK will suffice. In one place. I have mine on my belt because it allows me to keep valuable real-estate on my PC, and cuts way down on the shit that gets in my way when shooting, which is primary battlefield medicine anyway. Belt is also nice because if everyone else on my team is occupied, I can move the belt around to either side to access with either hand Two IFAKs have no purpose and add unnecessary weight and bulk to your kit. If additional medical supplies are going to be needed, it is either a situation you should not have put yourself into, or a situation in which someone in your group ought to be carrying an actual Aid Bag (see first situation) Quoted:
Quoted:
Yes... another tourniquet at the very least! Quoted:
Situation dependant. Two is one and one is none. Streamline your shit. One well stocked IFAK will suffice. In one place. I have mine on my belt because it allows me to keep valuable real-estate on my PC, and cuts way down on the shit that gets in my way when shooting, which is primary battlefield medicine anyway. Belt is also nice because if everyone else on my team is occupied, I can move the belt around to either side to access with either hand Two IFAKs have no purpose and add unnecessary weight and bulk to your kit. If additional medical supplies are going to be needed, it is either a situation you should not have put yourself into, or a situation in which someone in your group ought to be carrying an actual Aid Bag (see first situation) I carry two now. I had one then. It was not close to enough. Ymmv |
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Nothing wrong with two IFAKs. You're the one who will be carrying it, and you're the one who needs to test your gear to make sure it's in a location that is accessible and doesn't hinder the use of your other equipment. If space is a concern, there are many compact IFAK's available in today's market.
I have one IFAK, but it has nearly double of everything in it. I have two TQ's, one in the IFAK and one on my belt. You could easily run an Eleven 10 Gear (formerly Cleer Medical) MBOK on your PC or belt in addition to a secondary TQ. 
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Micro kits lack volume to adequately contain wound packing materials in useful volume. Plus, the dressings are too small for a lot of wounds.
The 4 inch Izzy is about as small as I find workable in real life. it can take a lot of gauze to correctly pack a decent wound. I've had to use three Z fold packs on one leg and still had to start shoving in plastic packaging and an Ace bandage to try and pack it hard and tight to the bone. Plus, cellox gauze works better than combat gauze IMO...but it's fluffy and bulky. |
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Quoted:
Micro kits lack volume to adequately contain wound packing materials in useful volume. Plus, the dressings are too small for a lot of wounds. The 4 inch Izzy is about as small as I find workable in real life. it can take a lot of gauze to correctly pack a decent wound. I've had to use three Z fold packs on one leg and still had to start shoving in plastic packaging and an Ace bandage to try and pack it hard and tight to the bone. Plus, cellox gauze works better than combat gauze IMO...but it's fluffy and bulky. I wasn't suggesting the MBOK because of its contents, because you can tailor the contents for your needs. I was simply showing the MBOK for its size. You can fit Cellox and a 4" bandage within the MBOK. It actually holds a lot of stuff for the size. |
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Please excuse if this is a foolish question, because it is being made out of ignorance.
In all cases, being shot implies at least an entry wound. In many cases, it also implies an exit wound. Shouldn't the IFAK be equipped to deal with both? What if there is more than a single gunshot wound? IOW, perhaps four entry/exit wounds? Obviously, there is some point where multiple wounds exceed the survival capacity of the individual, no matter how much first responder aid/equipment. I understand that if one is accompanied by other people with adequate GSW IFAK kits, they can elect to use the contents of their kits for a possible second wound, but what if one is shot without such support? This question has not been directly addressed so far, and I think, unless it is obviously very stupid, it ought to be. I also think a simple, small "Boo-Boo" kit is useful, in addition to a full-fledged GSW kit. |
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In the infantry we were told to plug our own wounds to the best of our ability and wait for the corpsman. If we can shoot and wait than great.
It's was actually detrimental to the mission if a healthy shooter stops to provide aid when they should be shooting to end the fight. So, pack as much as you want to use on yourself. Me? Currently my shits for training. I keep 1 tq and probably enough gauze/bandages for 3-4 serious wounds and 2 packs of quick clot. Lots of band-aids and Neosporin for small cuts which gets used a lot. It's on my belt as my armor is slick. |
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First casualty I ever touched had 9 penetrating wounds with two arterial bleeds in different arteries plus an airway injury. He survived for 3 more days. I carry two now. I had one then. It was not close to enough. Ymmv That situation though is straight up aid bag worthy. |
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The original CLEER Medical MBOK's came with Cellox. The new Eleven10 MBOK's have Combat Gauze or Phocus Frog Gauze. I wasn't suggesting the MBOK because of its contents, because you can tailor the contents for your needs. I was simply showing the MBOK for its size. You can fit Cellox and a 4" bandage within the MBOK. It actually holds a lot of stuff for the size. Quoted:
Quoted:
Micro kits lack volume to adequately contain wound packing materials in useful volume. Plus, the dressings are too small for a lot of wounds. The 4 inch Izzy is about as small as I find workable in real life. it can take a lot of gauze to correctly pack a decent wound. I've had to use three Z fold packs on one leg and still had to start shoving in plastic packaging and an Ace bandage to try and pack it hard and tight to the bone. Plus, cellox gauze works better than combat gauze IMO...but it's fluffy and bulky. I wasn't suggesting the MBOK because of its contents, because you can tailor the contents for your needs. I was simply showing the MBOK for its size. You can fit Cellox and a 4" bandage within the MBOK. It actually holds a lot of stuff for the size. |
| For my deployment shit, I have a full IFAK on my PC and a GSW kit on my belt (4" Izzy, combat gauze and TQ). On my garrison gear, I carry an IFAK on the PC and a TQ on the belt. Since it's effectively a police duty belt, that's all I have room for, so I carry a second TQ and a 6" Izzy in my bag. I'm one of the few who carries anything at all, and no matter how much I talk to people about it, the idea never seems to register. |
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Our chief has made TQ mandatory for every officer and put a full trauma kit in the glove box of every police vehicle (SOF-T, Quickclot, Izzy, extra gauze, chest seals, shears, tape, gloves). It's not expensive either. We do shift training once a month in tbeir use. If any officer wants to propose the same, make sure you have full price quotes and a per vehicle price if you want the suggestion acted upon. We bought seperate components and sealed them in heat sealed evidence bags with nips cut in edges to aid in opening. Cost less than any complete kit. Plus it is good PR when he can tell city council about their use in traffic accident victims, etc.
As for the other peoples questions about multiple gunshot wounds or other injuries... All serious wounds to extremities get a TQ first. Everything else for an extremity is icing. All junctional wounds that do no intrude into abdominal cavity but are too high to get a TQ get Quickclot/gauze. (Shoulder, hip, etc.) All chest wounds get a seal. In that order and as a general rule. In general, you don't stuff gauze into central body cavity. There is nothing to pack into or against. Combat gauze in an extremity is used when a juncture wound is done or not present and there is some left for extremities, otherwise just regular gauze. Pressure dressing is last. Direct pressure is best, but if you have to hold one wound and there is another that needs pressure, or you need to move the person, a pressure dressing is nice, but not necessary. A mini kit like the CLEER on my carrier can handle one basic of each injury. Chest seals come in twos so covers both sides entry and exit, plus you can make a makeshift seal from tape and the packaging material. A full kit can cover a very bad or second wound with extra gauze, but still not enough for some situations. Then there is the situation where you come across a downed fellow officer from another agency, with no medical gear, in something like an active shooter scenario, but you can't hear any gunfire or screams to direct you to any emergency. Do you stop and use your only kit on him? Do you just leave him there to die to keep looking for a threat? Do you toss him your IFAK and go look for the threat with no IFAK? Much easier decision when you have a spare to throw down and can keep moving with the other one still on you. |
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Quoted:
Our chief has made TQ mandatory for every officer and put a full trauma kit in the glove box of every police vehicle (SOF-T, Quickclot, Izzy, extra gauze, chest seals, shears, tape, gloves). It's not expensive either. We do shift training once a month in tbeir use. If any officer wants to propose the same, make sure you have full price quotes and a per vehicle price if you want the suggestion acted upon. We bought seperate components and sealed them in heat sealed evidence bags with nips cut in edges to aid in opening. Cost less than any complete kit. Plus it is good PR when he can tell city council about their use in traffic accident victims, etc. As for the other peoples questions about multiple gunshot wounds or other injuries... All serious wounds to extremities get a TQ first. Everything else for an extremity is icing. All junctional wounds that do no intrude into abdominal cavity but are too high to get a TQ get Quickclot/gauze. (Shoulder, hip, etc.) All chest wounds get a seal. In that order and as a general rule. In general, you don't stuff gauze into central body cavity. There is nothing to pack into or against. Combat gauze in an extremity is used when a juncture wound is done or not present and there is some left for extremities, otherwise just regular gauze. Pressure dressing is last. Direct pressure is best, but if you have to hold one wound and there is another that needs pressure, or you need to move the person, a pressure dressing is nice, but not necessary. A mini kit like the CLEER on my carrier can handle one basic of each injury. Chest seals come in twos so covers both sides entry and exit, plus you can make a makeshift seal from tape and the packaging material. A full kit can cover a very bad or second wound with extra gauze, but still not enough for some situations. Then there is the situation where you come across a downed fellow officer from another agency, with no medical gear, in something like an active shooter scenario, but you can't hear any gunfire or screams to direct you to any emergency. Do you stop and use your only kit on him? Do you just leave him there to die to keep looking for a threat? Do you toss him your IFAK and go look for the threat with no IFAK? Much easier decision when you have a spare to throw down and can keep moving with the other one still on you. |
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