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Posted: 10/9/2010 8:13:55 AM EDT
| I seem to remember hearing things hear and there to the effect of "You don't need to do X" or "you should do Y" if you are going to shoot certain brass in only 1 rifle. What are these things? Neck sizing instead of FL sizinf I think is 1 of them. IIRC, neck sizing just opens up the neck a little so it will accept the bullet, where FL sizing moves the shoulder back. If I use brass in only 1 rifle, won't it fire form to the chamber, eliminating the eed to FL size? Or am I just making tsuff up? |
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What kind of rifle, bolt or semi? You can get away with neck-sizing in a bolt action but I wouldn't recommend it in an AR-type rifle; I have always FL resized my 5.56. This. Even with a lever action, you'll have to FL resize. Reason why has to do with feeding the round, IIRC. |
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I have seevral ARs, so it would be a pain to try to keep brass seperate. However, I have only 1 .308 bolt gun and 1 .30-06 bolt gun, so should get a neck sizing die for these? Will it extend the brass life? Increase accuracy? Make my life easier?
Also, on the ARs, I need to buy a new sizing die (don't ask why ;) ) and as I was looking at dies I saw small base dies. The description said small base dies make the case slightly smaller to aid in feeding in smei-full auto, pumps and lever guns. Is this true? Since I have to buy new 5.56/.223 dies should I get a small base? Or would I be better off w/ a normal FL sizing die? |
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You may be able to neck size a couple times, but even in bolt action rifles the case shoulder eventually moves enough and the brass hardens up enough to make clambering difficult.
For a bolt action rifle you can then use a shoulder bump die to set the shoulder back without sizing the neck, followed by more rounds of neck sizing. I use this on my Panda action live varmint rifles (both barrels have Ackley chambers with tight necks). Accuracy is very good, and brass life has been very good (important in light of all the neck turning and other work the cases require). |
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Quoted:
I have seevral ARs, so it would be a pain to try to keep brass seperate. However, I have only 1 .308 bolt gun and 1 .30-06 bolt gun, so should get a neck sizing die for these? Will it extend the brass life? Increase accuracy? Make my life easier? Also, on the ARs, I need to buy a new sizing die (don't ask why ;) ) and as I was looking at dies I saw small base dies. The description said small base dies make the case slightly smaller to aid in feeding in smei-full auto, pumps and lever guns. Is this true? Since I have to buy new 5.56/.223 dies should I get a small base? Or would I be better off w/ a normal FL sizing die? You can use a neck sizing die for .308 and .30-06., provided you use the same brass in each rifle. Around every third firing you will have to either full length resize or bump the shoulder back. The case will become too tight to chamber. This process will triple the life of your brass at a minimum. Accuracy should be as good as your rifle will allow. Very little lube is needed with a neck sizing die, just a touch inside and out on the neck only. Small base dies are not needed for AR15's. A small base die basically reduces the case size to like new dimensions. It works the brass more than standard dies and reduces case life because of it. Why do you feel you need new dies? If you got a case stuck and the interior looks marred in some way, simply ship the die back to the manufacturer and they will polish it good as new. For that matter you can do it yourself at home with Flitz. Standard dies will fit your semi-auto chamber better than small base dies do. |
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There's no need to buy another die for neck sizing. All you have to do is use a full length die and back it off a little. Both the .308 and .30-06 are tapered cases and the full length sizing doesn't take place until the die nearly bottoms out.
If you want to try it, run your die up about 1/4" from hitting the shell holder and insert a lubed case. Run the case into the full length die and check the neck. You should see exactly where the die stopped sizing. Just keep running the die down until it's adequately sized. Even for bolt guns with dedicated brass, I like to just bump the shoulder a bit. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I have seevral ARs, so it would be a pain to try to keep brass seperate. However, I have only 1 .308 bolt gun and 1 .30-06 bolt gun, so should get a neck sizing die for these? Will it extend the brass life? Increase accuracy? Make my life easier? Also, on the ARs, I need to buy a new sizing die (don't ask why ;) ) and as I was looking at dies I saw small base dies. The description said small base dies make the case slightly smaller to aid in feeding in smei-full auto, pumps and lever guns. Is this true? Since I have to buy new 5.56/.223 dies should I get a small base? Or would I be better off w/ a normal FL sizing die? You can use a neck sizing die for .308 and .30-06., provided you use the same brass in each rifle. Around every third firing you will have to either full length resize or bump the shoulder back. The case will become too tight to chamber. This process will triple the life of your brass at a minimum. Accuracy should be as good as your rifle will allow. Very little lube is needed with a neck sizing die, just a touch inside and out on the neck only. Small base dies are not needed for AR15's. A small base die basically reduces the case size to like new dimensions. It works the brass more than standard dies and reduces case life because of it. Why do you feel you need new dies? If you got a case stuck and the interior looks marred in some way, simply ship the die back to the manufacturer and they will polish it good as new. For that matter you can do it yourself at home with Flitz. Standard dies will fit your semi-auto chamber better than small base dies do. Ya, a case got stuck. What happened was I was using the Lee hand primer and I had a LC case that hadn't had the crimper removed that accidently got mixed in. The primer went about half way in but wouldn't go anymore. So then I couldn't get it out of the shell holder because of the primer sticking out. So I figured I would use my press to pop out the primer. It was late last night and in retrospect a horrible idea. I should have at least used a 30-06 die or something, but I didn't, I used the 223 die. So I pushed the case in and I expected I would be able to just pull it back out, I'm still not sure why I couldn't. I lubed the shit out of it. In anyevent, it was stuck and I proceeded to make a mess, especially once I decided the die was a goner and I just wanted to see if I could get the brass out. |
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I have some 5.56mm AR's that I can take fired brass from, reload without resizing, and fire in either rifle without malfunctioning, sticking, pressure signs, odd chrono results, etc. Doesn't mean it's a good idea to DO it, though.
I full length resize everything for my AR's just enough to show up as in spec on my Frankford Arsenal and Wilson case gauges. Bolt gun guys will tell you all you need to know about using brass in one bolt gun. |
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Quoted:
I have seevral ARs, so it would be a pain to try to keep brass seperate. However, I have only 1 .308 bolt gun and 1 .30-06 bolt gun, so should get a neck sizing die for these? Will it extend the brass life? Increase accuracy? Make my life easier? Also, on the ARs, I need to buy a new sizing die (don't ask why ;) ) and as I was looking at dies I saw small base dies. The description said small base dies make the case slightly smaller to aid in feeding in smei-full auto, pumps and lever guns. Is this true? No Since I have to buy new 5.56/.223 dies should I get a small base? Or would I be better off w/ a normal FL sizing die? IF you adjust your FL die correctly (use a case gauge) there is no need to over work you brass with a SB die. Remember adds try to sell things, like SB dies. People buy SB dies because they didn't adjust their FL die correctly, and think they need SB dies. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I have seevral ARs, so it would be a pain to try to keep brass seperate. However, I have only 1 .308 bolt gun and 1 .30-06 bolt gun, so should get a neck sizing die for these? Will it extend the brass life? Increase accuracy? Make my life easier? Also, on the ARs, I need to buy a new sizing die (don't ask why ;) ) and as I was looking at dies I saw small base dies. The description said small base dies make the case slightly smaller to aid in feeding in smei-full auto, pumps and lever guns. Is this true? No Since I have to buy new 5.56/.223 dies should I get a small base? Or would I be better off w/ a normal FL sizing die? IF you adjust your FL die correctly (use a case gauge) there is no need to over work you brass with a SB die. Remember adds try to sell things, like SB dies. People buy SB dies because they didn't adjust their FL die correctly, and think they need SB dies. Gotcha, no go on the SB dies |
Ok I don't get the shoulder bump thing at all 
How do you know when you do it, how are you supposed to measure to determine when and how in the hell am I gonna see .002 of a bump, if indeed I ever figure out how to do it? I FL size mine with a nice Reddding set (have a die for a bolt gun as well - just because it came with the set), trim and check with a case gauge. What am I missing? And go easy on me, I'm learning - but slowly. On a brighter note, I was able to get the 6.8 Barnes TTSX to go nearly 3100 FPS yesterday. 
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Quoted:
Ok I don't get the shoulder bump thing at all
How do you know when you do it, how are you supposed to measure to determine when and how in the hell am I gonna see .002 of a bump, if indeed I ever figure out how to do it? I FL size mine with a nice Reddding set (have a die for a bolt gun as well - just because it came with the set), trim and check with a case gauge. What am I missing? And go easy on me, I'm learning - but slowly. On a brighter note, I was able to get the 6.8 Barnes TTSX to go nearly 3100 FPS yesterday. You need a comparator gauge like the one from hornady or stony point here. I take a case that has been fired and measure it as shown here: 
I then adjust my sizing die down in small increments (1/16 turn) and re-measure the case. I continue to do this until I get a measurement that is .001" (I use .002" if the brass is going to be fired in an semi auto) smaller than the once fired case. Once you have this comparator, you can also get bullet bushings that allow you to measure your loaded ammo from the Ogive, instead of just the COAL. |
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The Stoney Point (now marketed by Hornady as the Lock-N-Load) case gage is excellent and adaptable to any caliber using the various inserts supplied. RCBS makes a caliber specific headspace gage, but they are much more expensive. I consider Mo DeFina's custon made headspace gages to be the best available, they actually have a chamber cut and .001" readable measurements like RCBS's. RCBS's simply measure off the datum line (or thereabouts).
These tools will give you an exact measurement on every case. This is probably the best thing to come along in the last 20 years as far as reloading consistency and custom fit is concerned. Take your fired cases from a bolt action and measure it, use three or four examples of each. Resize the brass so they all read at least .001" shorter than when fired, 002" maximum. For AR15's I use -.004" from the fired size. For M1A's I use the SAAMI minimum measurement to resize. Reliable ammo with minimal resizing is the outcome. No more guesswork is involved. In the "old days" we were instructed to remove the extracter and ejector from the bolt and resize incrementally until the bolt would just close on the resized case without resistance in that action. This system works, but doesn't give you any measurement with which to record for future reference. If you owned over one rifle in a particular caliber you had to settle for a generic setting that worked for all of them, or go through this process all over again. |
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Quoted:
Ok I don't get the shoulder bump thing at all
How do you know when you do it, how are you supposed to measure to determine when and how in the hell am I gonna see .002 of a bump, if indeed I ever figure out how to do it? I FL size mine with a nice Reddding set (have a die for a bolt gun as well - just because it came with the set), trim and check with a case gauge. What am I missing? And go easy on me, I'm learning - but slowly. On a brighter note, I was able to get the 6.8 Barnes TTSX to go nearly 3100 FPS yesterday. It's all good brother, I had the same questions less than 6 months ago (have only been reloading 2 yrs) get yourself the Hornady System which consists of a OAL gage (I chose the curved one) along with the right sized case and then get the HS insert in the appropiate caliber or get the set and while your at it get the comparator insert to measure OAL from the ogive, you can get all of these for about $75 or less is you look around. It takes alittle practice to use these but after some practice you can get consistent results using these tools, when I started reloading all I wanted to do was crank out decent ammo and not spend a ton of time at the bench but now I find myself weighing brass, reaming flash pockets, deburring flash holes, neck sizing and trickling charges and let's not even get started on neck turning and trimming meplats it will boggle your mind 
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You only need one RCBS precision mike to determine case head space on all callibers that use the parent .308 case, such as .243, .260, .270-308, 7mm-08, .308, 7.62 NATO, .338, .358, & possibly .375 jag.
The caliber specific requirement is generated by the secondary use for the RCBS precision mike which is measuring "Jump to Land" because the bullet ogive simulator in the mike set is for one caliber only. The primary use or case head space determination only requires one of the precision mikes to cover all of the above calibers. |
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