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Originally Posted By NotIssued: it's legit! About to go for a run. If post pics in a bit. Edit: Kifaru weebie next to a Woobie, then a USMC poncho liner (current issue). Sorry for the messy basement. I'm standing on a treadmill for the height, hence the black thing in the foreground. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/269389/20240126_090928_jpg-3107897.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/269389/20240126_091004_jpg-3107898.JPG lucky SOB. I'd look at coyote, simply because I'm still in and our branch leans towards that for accessories. Awesome offer. View Quote I'm going to bang out another prototype of my new pattern (adjusted the lid a little, made it a little bigger at request of a couple guys testing them) and then post pictures for you. If you like, I'll fab one up for you in coyote. |
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Hey cool I will let factory know to add more bungee. If you want some longer pieces let me know. Be glad to send some out to ya.
Also, I shit-can the velcro keepers and just taped everything down once I had the strap settings right. With the excess straps rolled up to the buckles, I was getting some hard spots back there with a ruck thrown over it. So I just kept excess straps out straight (not rolled) and taped in place at several locations. The factory just loves velcro keepers as a rollover from the rucks but going to have to change that. Also let me know how you like the tranny straps if you have a CF ruck. I am working on an improved version with forward pull (like the rucks). And experimenting with different buckles for a quick release. |
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It's all about the fiddle factor.
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Got to play with mine a bit, got it sized and swapped
out the buckles. As others have mentioned, the quality speaks for itself. On sizing, I’m a fat boy and normally wear 36” waist pants. The L/XL is almost too big, the mag pouches are right at the border of being too far forward to crawl around, so the M/L is probably the best bet for most folks. Minor nitpick; swapping out the side release buckle to the slider cobra was a bear, the slider cobra doesn't play well with doubled up fabric. I did like that the belt has a sewn loop to hold the little velcro bit used to tie up the excess, the attention to detail on this thing is phenomenal. As expected, it's exceptionally comfortable carrying weight in this thing. No interference with shouldering a scoped rifle, either, huge plus in my book. Pads on the yoke are among the best I’ve dealt with in this regard, didn’t need to adjust my stock, even. If Crossfire ever feels like branching out, they could build these rigs with tool/material pouches and make a fucking mint selling to construction workers, most of the “mexican rigs” made of nylon or even leather are fiddly and uncomfortable as shit. Wearing with plate carriers, the yoke fits under heavy, old school PC’s like the LBT 6094 without much annoyance, pop off the sternum strap and that’s about it. However, this yoke doesn’t like riding on top of the heavier PC’s, I’d imagine something with lower profile shoulder pads would pair better with layering the DZ rig on top. With a slick or low-profile PC, (AC1 in this instance) DZ rig rides on top perfectly fine. Should do the same with most chest rigs. Mag pouches have plenty of space leftover for magpuls or ranger plates, fits USGI, pmags, even AUG mags. Getting that 3rd mag back in there while wearing it can be a chore, and having something to help pull mags out is nice, I’ve got old school tape and paracord with zipties inside. Overall, they’re fantastic mag pouches. For sizing comparison, the canteen pouches Will fit 2 full MRE’s. Lid still closes as intended, can use all three methods of closure, but you’re not getting anything else in there. The mini-buttpack will hold 3 full MRE’s. It’s about fit to burst, but the lid closes, and gets good velcro continuity with the pull tab tucked under the shock cord. Cannot close using the tuck tab, though. Paired with a day pack, you can easily carry a full combat load along with 48 hours of sustainment. Can’t wait to see the revised DG1 pack to go with it, hopefully it’ll integrate into the yoke itself, that’d be perfect. I know that chest rigs and body armor covered in pouches have been all the rage since most infantry are mechanized these days, but god-DAMN is it comfortable to actually do shit wearing this rig. Why the hell isn’t something like this standard issue for US infantry? |
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Looks like some lucky recipients of their DZ rigs in here! My DZ rig in M-81 arrived today as well. Like others have mentioned, the rig is well put together and although I only had a moment to throw it on and fiddle with it, I’m impressed. Like another poster said, I couldn’t get the cobra buckle to work with the doubled end of the waist belt. I’ll mess around with it a bit more to see if I can make it work. I was pleasantly surprised to find the Pathfinder canteen cook kit fits nicely in the canteen pouch. I saw in an earlier post that someone switched out some buckles? What is that about? Overall well done piece of kit. Thanks for keeping this thread alive.
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Looking forward to your thoughts on the Platatac Billy. Still not happy with my solution for carrying a pistol. That was my next option. That plus I’m hoping Diz comes out with a similar pouch.
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Originally Posted By cap6888: Looking forward to your thoughts on the Platatac Billy. Still not happy with my solution for carrying a pistol. That was my next option. That plus I’m hoping Diz comes out with a similar pouch. View Quote Me, too. Not a fan of an exposed pistol with just bungee retention when the plan involves low crawling. @jharpphoto The belt buckle was the only one I was referring to. |
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Originally Posted By rb889: Minor nitpick; swapping out the side release buckle to the slider cobra was a bear, the slider cobra doesn't play well with doubled up fabric. I did like that the belt has a sewn loop to hold the little velcro bit used to tie up the excess, the attention to detail on this thing is phenomenal. View Quote This is true, fought the good fight on mine too. @Diz this thing is a freaking work of art well soaked in genius. |
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Remember Ty Louis Campbell
Superty.org |
Originally Posted By Maddy21: Got mine today. She’s a beaut, Clark. Loaded some random stuff in there so I could adjust it properly. Got three 30rd pmags and two Scar mags in the mag pouches. I swapped my strong side mag pouches out with a Platatac Billy. I wanted to try integrating a blaster as well as have a space for admin kit. I’m liking this setup so far. Need to get to the range to test it out. https://i.imgur.com/WybtLji.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/rE6GDOh.jpeg View Quote Looks good. What kydex holster are you using in the Billy? |
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Yeah the the main buckle is a pain to swap out with the Cobra. I just ended up carefully cutting and removing the stitching, then swapped the buckles out. With no sewn loop anymore, I just rolled and taped the ends, so they ain't flopping. Gonna have to fix that issue.
Yeah you guys probably don't remember this much, but mags can be a PITA to get out of a high cut 3-mag pouch. That's why MagPul is now rich and famous. So for sure, some kind of assist is a good idea. On USGI mags, I like a piece of para cord, knotted on both ends, and trapped between floor plate and mag walls. The P-Mags ain't bad with their big-ass floorplates. You can also stage them so the center mag is higher, thus easier to grab. On putting back in, I've found once you get two mags in there, put the third mag in between them; it will slide in much easier when you work mag against mag, instead of fighting the cordura. You can also adjust this by how much tension you want in the bungees. I have found a light tension works better for me. It's a balance between snug mags and ease of reloading pouch. On buckles, one Devil Dog replaced his front buckles, to make them easier to adjust. That got me to looking at it; would you guys prefer a std ladder lock buckle at the bottom of the shoulder pad so you have a little adjustability on the fly? I always just taped everything down once I got the settings but then again I was running around in jungles where your layers didn't vary that much On shoulder padding, I already have patterns for a low pro harness. I'm using a very light padding here to integrate better with chest rigs and PC's. We will try and push this option out quickly. And for sure, a commander's pouch is coming as well. Gonna have to think about how I want to do a holster. Ideally I'd like to see a cordura cover over a Saf ALS, with a top flap. I don't think open top carry is optimum out in the bush. Perhaps a tuckable/removable flap, but a flap nonetheless. |
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It's all about the fiddle factor.
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Safariland jungle holster was an RLS (IIRC) inside a nylon sandwich with a removable flap like a UM84 and MOLLE mounting.
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Just tossing out ideas, but how about a "Pistol" pouch whose "inside" nearest the user was specifically reinforced (internal/external plastic panel, stitching, etc.) in order to accept common holster attachment systems?
Sort of a "Holster-Holster" Internal holster + Pistol can be removed at user's discretion, and the pouch used for other purposes. |
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Originally Posted By raf: Just tossing out ideas, but how about a "Pistol" pouch whose "inside" nearest the user was specifically reinforced (internal/external plastic panel, stitching, etc.) in order to accept common holster attachment systems? Sort of a "Holster-Holster" Internal holster + Pistol can be removed at user's discretion, and the pouch used for other purposes. View Quote Raf, that sounds like a good idea, especially with the ability to use a QLF attachment. |
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Yesss, I have been mulling this very thing. Sorta like what the Rangers did with their Saf holster cover. What kind of attachment do we want, molle or hard fork through molle.
I'm sorta old school and like a webbing attachment, but I see the value of the fork as well. The webbing allows for the holster (and gat) to articulate on your leg, when kneeling, crawling and so forth. But the fork gives you the rigid mount we have grown accustomed to for a solid drawstroke. I guess this depends on how you view your pistola. Also, I was thinking of what was said about the sustainments, and what they hold in terms of MRE's and so forth. Here's what I had in mind. Awhile back I did this experiment with my SF buddy, trying to get a food loadout that didn't weigh a ton. So instead of full MRE's that do weigh a ton, with lots of overlap in the bits n bobs, we started out with #10 cans of freeze-dried food, broken down into 1 cup meals, in baggies. To this we added freeze-dried coffee, cocoa, soup, and oatmeal. With one spoon, condiments, and so forth. So the pouches were designed with this in mind. You can literally get a nice load of this stuff into one of the sustaiments, without the weight and bulk of MRE packages. Add in a fold up stove, and heat tabs, and Bob's your uncle. So while you can put anything in there you like, including MRE's, this is actually what I had in mind. The goal was to have a food bag in the ruck, for say 96 hrs, with an additonal 24 hrs (at least) on the belt line. Now as many have mentioned, and I have even been reconsidering, you may not want much if any sustainment on the belt line. If you plan on having a small enough ruck, which you don't plan on jettisoning, then perhaps all this could be carried in there. But tools in the tool kit. And yes, it is more comfortable than that damned PC. |
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It's all about the fiddle factor.
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Originally Posted By Diz: Yesss, I have been mulling this very thing. Sorta like what the Rangers did with their Saf holster cover. What kind of attachment do we want, molle or hard fork through molle. I'm sorta old school and like a webbing attachment, but I see the value of the fork as well. The webbing allows for the holster (and gat) to articulate on your leg, when kneeling, crawling and so forth. But the fork gives you the rigid mount we have grown accustomed to for a solid drawstroke. I guess this depends on how you view your pistola. Also, I was thinking of what was said about the sustainments, and what they hold in terms of MRE's and so forth. Here's what I had in mind. Awhile back I did this experiment with my SF buddy, trying to get a food loadout that didn't weigh a ton. So instead of full MRE's that do weigh a ton, with lots of overlap in the bits n bobs, we started out with #10 cans of freeze-dried food, broken down into 1 cup meals, in baggies. To this we added freeze-dried coffee, cocoa, soup, and oatmeal. With one spoon, condiments, and so forth. So the pouches were designed with this in mind. You can literally get a nice load of this stuff into one of the sustaiments, without the weight and bulk of MRE packages. Add in a fold up stove, and heat tabs, and Bob's your uncle. So while you can put anything in there you like, including MRE's, this is actually what I had in mind. The goal was to have a food bag in the ruck, for say 96 hrs, with an additonal 24 hrs (at least) on the belt line. Now as many have mentioned, and I have even been reconsidering, you may not want much if any sustainment on the belt line. If you plan on having a small enough ruck, which you don't plan on jettisoning, then perhaps all this could be carried in there. But tools in the tool kit. And yes, it is more comfortable than that damned PC. View Quote Diz, the fork method is what I know, but I’d defer to dudes with more experience on different systems like the one you’re talking about. |
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I used an M4 single mag pouch (Holds two 22 round Glock 23 mags or four Chip McCormick 10 round 45 power mags) and slipped that plus either pistol, Glock 23 / 45 cal full size 1911, into the right side, rear DZ mag pouch, and tightened the bungee.
Lid closes securely over either pistol. The Glock 23 grip can totally enclosed if desired. The 45 grip will stick out. Holds everything very well. Sometimes the easiest solutions are the simplest. |
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Ha true, that is no shit.
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It's all about the fiddle factor.
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I >>think<< I would make a "Holster-Holster" with an extremely secure/rigid PALS fastener system of Holster to base platform, to obtain best draw.
Maybe make the "Holster-Holster" kinda like a book, with "binder" forward near the barrel/top of pistol. Reason for this is because access may be required to detach/attach the inner holster from internal mounting system. Holster-Holster can be opened up, pistol locking mechanism thus accessed, and open end of holster (opposite "binder") secured as appropriate. Vertically adjustable top flap and vertically adjustable flap on "bottom" of "Holster-Holster" (probably secured by internally mounted velcro) would accommodate most pistols, and the rectangular shape of the "Holster-Holster would accommodate most WMLs. I'm assuming that mounting point inside the "Holster-Holster" for inner holster would be located in a spot that took advantage of the rigid PALS mounting devices on "Holster-Holster" exterior. This "book-like" construction would likely make this device much easier to fabricate, in addition to features mentioned. Just speculating. |
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Originally Posted By cap6888: Thinking the “dilemma” of the Billy pouch/commander pouch with holster is how much will the pouch stick out? The simple Velcro holster with bungee retention is thin, albeit not secure and not fast draw. Love the simple kydex holster insert. In theory it shouldn’t add much bulk. But it provides no flap cover. I was thinking that if a pouch is in this fashion, would it be worth it to weave some paracord or shock cord to snug up the pouch? Would this help prevent the flop of the pouch not being directly mounted to the PALS? Just thinking out loud here. And day one of my pack build has begun. Got all the pieces cut for the body. Next step is cutting the nylon for the PALS and the straps. The electric knife makes this MUCH easier. https://i.postimg.cc/6qbVCNd2/IMG-0308.jpg View Quote It's good seeing others DIYing kit :-) Please post pics as it progresses. |
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You should sell that baby butt pack as a separate item. Looks a bit smaller than the sustaining pouch but bigger than a SAW or canteen pouch.
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Originally Posted By Maddy21: It definitely adds a bit to the depth, a compromise for sure. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Maddy21: Originally Posted By cap6888: Thinking the “dilemma” of the Billy pouch/commander pouch with holster is how much will the pouch stick out? It definitely adds a bit to the depth, a compromise for sure. Hence my thoughts of a commander’s pouch with either trifold velcro over a loop-covered kydex holster, or molle to mount a holster inside, with a divider to keep other items away from the holster. Should end up about the same size as the platatac billy, maybe a bit smaller. Molle would accommodate a blackhawk strike adapter, or the Gcode. Hell, safariland makes a goofy “fork” molle adapter, now. I think the velcro/kydex would end up being lower profile and less obnoxious, personally. Though it would limit your options for retention holsters… Could probably slap velcro onto a USDG or safariland and get it to work, though it might be a bit fat, and you’d have to clear the hood and thumb button. Either way, retention is redundant with a flap covering the entire holster. |
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Originally Posted By Diz: Yeah the the main buckle is a pain to swap out with the Cobra. I just ended up carefully cutting and removing the stitching, then swapped the buckles out. With no sewn loop anymore, I just rolled and taped the ends, so they ain't flopping. Gonna have to fix that issue. Yeah you guys probably don't remember this much, but mags can be a PITA to get out of a high cut 3-mag pouch. That's why MagPul is now rich and famous. So for sure, some kind of assist is a good idea. On USGI mags, I like a piece of para cord, knotted on both ends, and trapped between floor plate and mag walls. The P-Mags ain't bad with their big-ass floorplates. You can also stage them so the center mag is higher, thus easier to grab. On putting back in, I've found once you get two mags in there, put the third mag in between them; it will slide in much easier when you work mag against mag, instead of fighting the cordura. You can also adjust this by how much tension you want in the bungees. I have found a light tension works better for me. It's a balance between snug mags and ease of reloading pouch. On buckles, one Devil Dog replaced his front buckles, to make them easier to adjust. That got me to looking at it; would you guys prefer a std ladder lock buckle at the bottom of the shoulder pad so you have a little adjustability on the fly? I always just taped everything down once I got the settings but then again I was running around in jungles where your layers didn't vary that much On shoulder padding, I already have patterns for a low pro harness. I'm using a very light padding here to integrate better with chest rigs and PC's. We will try and push this option out quickly. And for sure, a commander's pouch is coming as well. Gonna have to think about how I want to do a holster. Ideally I'd like to see a cordura cover over a Saf ALS, with a top flap. I don't think open top carry is optimum out in the bush. Perhaps a tuckable/removable flap, but a flap nonetheless. View Quote I never understood why the ladder lock buckles were not mounted to the belt - instead of the d ring. Gives you adjustment and the buckle isn’t under your plate carrier- if you use one |
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Yeah I think the intent was to allow the belt to be worn separately, which believe it or not, the Brits did in the late 50's, early 60's. So the yokes always had the straps on them. Also this set up allowed you to get the ladder locks off the pads, especially around back.
But I hear ya. I have tried it before, and found it a bit fiddly, what with everything being "up-side-down" but for sure a little easier to adjust. I would say if you want to go that route, just cut out the D-rings and install split-bar ladder locks. There's enough loop down there to get the split bar through. I may even try that out myself. As an alternative, thinking about trying some ladder locks, back in the traditional location, at the bottom of the shoulder pads, at least in front. I've seen some Brit rigs that do this, ladder locks on the yoke, and straps sewn down on the belt. Might play around with that a bit on next run. But keeping in mind, when you do get it adjusted, it usually gets taped down, just to keep everything in place. At least that's what used to happen. Again maybe it was because I was running around in hot humid places, but I don't remember adjusting my belt kit very much. If anything, it was a matter of when it was soaking wet, vs dry. You guys don't know how good you have it. The old cotton duck canvas took days to dry. When I hear guys say man this thing is comfortable, I smile and say you're welcome, ha ha. The CF padding system dries out amazingly fast. No one has had time to go there yet, but circling back to the VelSys kit, the laminates may be good at this, on the pouches, but the padding also needs to absorb moisture and then evaporate it. That's where this rig shines. If your rig just has coated cordura "next to skin" you're SOL. Spacer mesh drains well, but doesn't draw any moisture away from you. With traditional Bergens and belt kit, I would have soaking wet rings underneath the padding. With CF kit, you still have some moisture, but a lot of it is drawn away from you. So you can "air out" quicker, and avoid chaffing. BTW, I have found Mennen "Speed Stick Power" (grey lid) makes an excellent anti-chafe barrier, for pits, crotch, feet, etc. About 1/4 the price of Body Glide and does the same thing. If you are going to be wet and moving all day, it will literally save your ass. Very common in Tri circles, where you swim and then hit the bike, and run. |
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It's all about the fiddle factor.
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Originally Posted By Paulie771: So, radio placement. Not sure where I want to put the pouch I got from Ex Umbris for my AR152 boofwang. Right now I have it between the second left hand mag pouch and the first sustainment pouch. Any thoughts or experience w/ this? Where does everyone usually mount their radio? I considered on the front of the first left hand pouch, but thought the antenna would get in the way of mag changes and potentially get damaged in the prone. As you can see in the pic, I had to drop the malice clips some to get it to mount somewhat evenly w/ the mag pouch. View Quote I don't have Diz's rig, but I have a similar setup, pouch wise (but with a buttpack) I run a knife where you have that, and run the radio on the other side of that sustainment pouch (which I use for water bottles) Then again, I'm using a regular baofang in a surplus USGI flashbang pouch. And I don't have alot of actual field use with it there. I also have a snake antenna, I don't know what they are called. Flexible, almost a wire antenna, that I can weave through my gear. So I don't have to worry so much about antenna damage. Like the top ones at this link, though I don't have this brand. https://www.disco32.com/collections/antennas EDIT: This reminds me, I need to sew myself up a better radio pouch. Not that the flashbang pouches don't work fine - they actually work great for baofangs. (and tourniquets btw. Crawling around on the ground and all that, I want it secure) |
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Typically I've seen the Brit squaddies run the radio around the left outside sustainment. If it isn't in it, it's attached to the side of it. Also, the molle on top of sustainment's can take a smaller radio, after you ditch the ruck.
This had been a tough one for me. Radios were run in the ruck last time I did this stuff. Then I ran it on an LBV. I'm still partial to that solution. Either that, a chest rig, or on the assault pack. If I didn't need a double load of ammo, I'd probably look at putting it in one of the mag pouches. With a blow out kit in the other. Still gives you a full load of 6 mags. Yeah that's the Speed Stick Power. Only I use the silver lid "unscented" so you can't track me But not kidding. |
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It's all about the fiddle factor.
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Originally Posted By marnsdorff: I don't have Diz's rig, but I have a similar setup, pouch wise (but with a buttpack) I run a knife where you have that, and run the radio on the other side of that sustainment pouch (which I use for water bottles) Then again, I'm using a regular baofang in a surplus USGI flashbang pouch. And I don't have alot of actual field use with it there. I also have a snake antenna, I don't know what they are called. Flexible, almost a wire antenna, that I can weave through my gear. So I don't have to worry so much about antenna damage. Like the top ones at this link, though I don't have this brand. https://www.disco32.com/collections/antennas EDIT: This reminds me, I need to sew myself up a better radio pouch. Not that the flashbang pouches don't work fine - they actually work great for baofangs. (and tourniquets btw. Crawling around on the ground and all that, I want it secure) View Quote |
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“Always love your country — but never trust your government!" - Robert Novak
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It May be way off topic, but i Just got aware by some YT Channel about the ongoing Texas law enforcement operations in Fronton Island. My First tought After seeing some videos Is that they should definitely benefit from a separate belt kit to quickly put over armor. It seems they ride on cars, atvs, small boats, helicopters and they dismount to make short patrols, maybe setting up observation posts, using drones. Maybe my assessment Is completely wrong, but something like a s/m diz rig could Shine there.
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Originally Posted By Diz:
Typically I've seen the Brit squaddies run the radio around the left outside sustainment. If it isn't in it, it's attached to the side of it. Also, the molle on top of sustainment's can take a smaller radio, after you ditch the ruck. This had been a tough one for me. Radios were run in the ruck last time I did this stuff. Then I ran it on an LBV. I'm still partial to that solution. Either that, a chest rig, or on the assault pack. If I didn't need a double load of ammo, I'd probably look at putting it in one of the mag pouches. With a blow out kit in the other. Still gives you a full load of 6 mags. Yeah that's the Speed Stick Power. Only I use the silver lid "unscented" so you can't track me But not kidding. View Quote |
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“Always love your country — but never trust your government!" - Robert Novak
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Originally Posted By Paulie771: Thanks for the suggestion on antenna. I have a few tape antenna and currently have these gooseneck antenna on my AR152s. I'll give those wire antenna a look for this application. Might be a better solution. View Quote That gooseneck could be relocated to the back of the harness with just a cable. Something like a Signal Stick might be more comfortable with a ruck. |
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We are in the middle of a Communist Revolution in the USA.
There is no voting our way out of this. |
Originally Posted By trails-end: That gooseneck could be relocated to the back of the harness with just a cable. Something like a Signal Stick might be more comfortable with a ruck. View Quote Yea. Search for 'antenna relocation kit' or something like that. They make little kits for them. Make sure you get the right length of cable - not too long, not too short - to place the antenna where you want it. Put some thought into it. Also note that I am not, in any way, a radio expert. I was just tired of the long antennas getting in the way. |
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We ended up going with short "duck" antennae, just because we wanted short range inter-team coms. Only the RTO need be concerned about longer antennae and range. That's just us but I imagine many are in the same boat.
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It's all about the fiddle factor.
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@Diz, I know you put a great deal of thought into the Diz Rig any insights into if you had considered a drawstring collar for the large rear pouch?
Just curious your thoughts pro/cons. |
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Remember Ty Louis Campbell
Superty.org |
Oh for sure. Pluses and minuses here as well. The main push for me was individual sacks for the various stuff I put in there, vs using the pouch itself as a big "dry bag". Typically I will run a fold up stove and heat tabs, spoon and lighter, cut down dish rag, coffee, cocoa, oatmeal, soup, and freeze-dried main meals (1 cup baggies of Mountain House). This stuff is already in individual baggies so the collar is really not needed, for the way I roll. The rag is usually put over the top of everything as a silencer and I call it GTG. However, I have seen various other opinions here which I value. The decision was made to stretch the center pouch, vs going with the 4 pouch layout. This was a nod towards those that prefer a larger, center pouch. An unintended consequence of that is you now have much more room for stuff, and a "snow collar" may now be a good idea. I will bring this up with the powers that be.
Understand that I am the monkey who actually converts all the "good ideas" into an actual prototype the factory can use. The owner, marketing, and accounting all get a vote on what the final product will look like. Although I get a say, so do they. If I had the money to finance all this stuff, I'd just do whatever the hell I wanted. Unfortunately, that is not the case. Another thing to keep in mind. Often times you will get several people on line asking for certain things, and it all sounds good, but then you do an actual production run and after those folks have bought it, the rest of the run will just sit there. In the last twenty years, I have seen this time and again. But then on the other hand, a bunch of people will ask for something and they were just the tip of the iceberg. Seen that too. This is one of the reasons why I never hung out my own shingle. You have to do that market forecast, and hope you have the latter! It is a fine line between what I have found to work, and what other people think might work as well. You know what you know, then you don't know what you don't know, as Yogi might say. But for sure we will try and gage interest here, and if it looks good, we'll give it a shot. |
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It's all about the fiddle factor.
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Just want to say how much I appreciate you guys here. Your input has been invaluable. You know what you know, but there's aways different ways to skin the cat, and time does march on, and other techniques are developed. So all the pics and insight you have shared here have been awesome.
The trick in this case, has been attempting to blend the old, with the new. The belt kit has been around forever, or at least in it's present form, since the turn of the last century. And as some wags have said, the 80's are calling and want their TA-50 back. Try 1918 if you want to get it right, Battle. In any case, some have looked at the winds of change, and decided different weapons, equipment, and techniques may now be required for this new era we are entering. And that's the key point here; it's not about going retro just for the hell of it; it's taking a look at things and say what's the best way of doing them these days, all things considered. Just because it's not the latest fashion, doesn't mean it has no value. Just because the government did it a certain way, doesn't mean you can't improve on it. And finally, just because you did something a certain way, does not mean someone else can't figure out a better way. If you can keep these things in mind, then you can try and make things to fit your present or likely situation, vs the current fad, or whatever. We have taken a deep dive here into what the individual soldier, or civilian, might need to carry his kit, in basically a light infantry mode, without a lot of resources. This differs radically from what many have seen in the media for the past couple of decades. Even some of the brovets have called us out for daring to suggest there might be a better way of doing things. The nerve of slimy civilians these days. But others have thought about it, and concluded that there might be merit in this approach. So here we are. Oftentimes you will advocate a certain piece of kit, and become known as Mr. belt kit, or chest rig, or whatever. And I don't want people thinking just because I design a certain product, that I'm pushing it for profit. I still think chest rigs, PC's, battle belts all still have their place. I am trying to forecast what might be a requirement on the modern battlefield. If I thought that all we would need was PC's and battle belts, I would be designing these, just like everyone else. But I think for many of us, a different way of carry things will be/might be an important consideration. If you do agree that this is a valid concept, then you have many choices out there, as we've seen. VelSys took a stab at it, as well as Nixie Works; the Western Europeans, of which the Brits stand out with PLCE as our guide; the Med with some nice kit for the Italians, and Israelis; and even the Eastern Euros, with some combloc equipment getting a nice re-make by Kommando Store. And by sheer luck and happenstance, I got to design a rig, courtesy of Crossfire. So whichever you choose, get out there and run around in it a little bit. Find out what you look and don't like. Come back here and share with the class. |
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It's all about the fiddle factor.
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Originally Posted By Diz: Oftentimes you will advocate a certain piece of kit, and become known as Mr. belt kit, or chest rig, or whatever. And I don't want people thinking just because I design a certain product, that I'm pushing it for profit. I still think chest rigs, PC's, battle belts all still have their place. I am trying to forecast what might be a requirement on the modern battlefield. If I thought that all we would need was PC's and battle belts, I would be designing these, just like everyone else. But I think for many of us, a different way of carry things will be/might be an important consideration. View Quote Everyone here has seen me talk up belt kits. Alot. I still have chest rigs, everything from oldschool TT MAV's to the newest coolguy microrigs. Heck, the rig I keep next to my bed is a Haley micro chestrig. I have full plate carriers. I have the HSLD battle belts, complete with the gucci aftermarket safariland hangers, etc. They are all tools. If for some reason the apocalypse ends up happening and we are going all mad-max and rolling around in turbocharged warrigs (yes, turbo. superchargers are for pussies) then I'm going all plate carrier and warbelt. Personally, I strongly believe the full on belt kit has it's place - even in conjunction with the plate carriers and chest rigs. It allows you to tailor your gear to your situation. You end up having to run security every day at the entrance to your neighborhood with your neighbors during some major disaster? You are going to be standing around all day. That plate carrier looks mighty nice if it isn't super hot and muggy out. But why load up your plate carrier with magazines and put more strain on your back? Run your belt kit with the plate carrier. Or like me. Who is starting to get older, and is starting to have trouble recovering from overheating as quickly as I used to be able to. Who realizes that yea, currently I don't have back or knee problems, I've been careful (and lucky) my whole life - but I know it's coming eventually. And I want to get ahead of the game as much as possible. There's a young stud type here locally who is out of the military recently, still rocking full plate carrier setups, and almost overheating while busting his ass in the summer while working out with his plate carrier on. I look at him and realize I'm 15 years older than him and wouldn't be able to do that and still get up and do it again the next day. He can. I can't. So it's belt kit or nothing. I can blow my wad once, maybe twice if I had to, trying to rock that place carrier in the summer, but after that I'm out of action for a few days minimum. Or I can admit my age and run without armor and with belt kit instead. |
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On a side note, a few summers ago, I had an emergency that I had to deal with here on the property and had to bust my ass for three days straight, in the middle of summer, doing construction, and I went and forgot to keep hydrated when I was sitting up on the roof the whole last day. First. Don't get behind in hydration. Don't be me who knows better, don't be a dumbass and drink more than a few quarts of water and a gatorade when it's in the mid 90's, full on sun, 95% humidity, and you are on a roof. But also second - I blew through my entire stockpile of gatorade and such I keep on hand keeping me and the guys going for 15 hours / day for those 3 days. But then when I realized how dehydrated I was that last evening, I had to go through an entire box of pedilyte or whatever it's spelled just getting me back up and running. And I was still wasted the next day.
I immediately went out and got myself a small stockpile of serious electrolytes, plus started collecting more bulk electrolytes for long-term. I used this as a learning experience that, if stuff goes bad, you aren't getting water and electrolyte resupply from the military. You DEFINITELY aren't getting IV rehydration if you go down. Do you have not just water, but the ability to re-hydrate yourself and replace those electrolytes? And not just once or twice. This goes for if people get sick too. Family member here recently went down with some bug, diarrhea and throwing up all day for a couple days. Guess who would have ended up in the hospital if I didn't have that stockpile of electrolytes that I had bought as mentioned above? Think short term emergency and also long-term sustainable. There are cheap ways to get basic bulk electrolytes stockpiled. |
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Originally Posted By cap6888: Day two of my backpack build. Shoulder harness assembly. Don’t zoom in. Some of the stitching is anything but straight. https://i.postimg.cc/rm2vXPF3/IMG-0311.jpg View Quote Don't feel bad. Doing binding tape by hand is a pain to make pretty. If this is your first time or two doing binding tape, it's just going to look like that. That inverse curve part - the part where the back of the neck would be touching - those inverse curves are a major pain to get done right and make look pretty without special attachments AND alot of practice even then. I have problems even now making sure the top and bottom stay even all the way around. I'd go back in, slowly, and put another line of stitching into the binding tape. It will be far easier the 2nd time around, now that you have the tape in place. This time worry about keeping the lines straight. It's good to have a 2nd line of stitching in binding tape anyways. This will help smooth out some of the rough spots around the back of the neck too. Even now I'll do extra stitching in places on the binding tape if I slip off the tape on a piece I don't want to go back and redo all the tape. It doesn't look as pretty, but it's just as strong in the end. I just recently went in and ripped the seams from the binding tape on my first belt kit harness prototype I did, the whole back of the neck part was messed up enough the binding tape needed to be completely redone. It had a 3" section where the bottom part of the binding tape completely missed the rest of the fabric and there wasn't enough room to fix it. Otherwise the harness was SERVICEABLE - I'm going to add it to my 'chinese paratroopers are dropping handout bin' of spare kit after fixing a few things on it. My first attempt at large scale binding tape was way worse than yours. Now a couple dozen pieces later, I can put out stuff that looks actually decent. I'm going to post a mini-how-to on DIYing binding tape for the rank newbie. It's not the professional way of doing it, it's really slow. But it's the 'I'm only going to be using binding tape like this 2 or 3 times in my life, but I want it to still look good' guide to doing binding tape on this kind of gear way of doing it. Making binding tape look really good, stitching wise, takes ALOT of practice. I'm still working on it. The binding tape takes me longer than everything else combined on any single piece. Good job so far. It is going to be totally serviceable in the end. |
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I've followed this thread since very early on and today my DZ rig (ML in m81) showed up so I figured it was a good day to finally make an account.
Years ago now I spent 3 years on a LRS team and I was a big fan of brit beltkit for that job, very happy to have this new rig that I dreamt of back when I was enlisted. A big thank you to Diz and the gents here who helped him with ideas. I'm pushing my friends to each buy a set as well. Cheers. |
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Originally Posted By PainefulCommonSense: I've followed this thread since very early on and today my DZ rig (ML in m81) showed up so I figured it was a good day to finally make an account. Years ago now I spent 3 years on a LRS team and I was a big fan of brit beltkit for that job, very happy to have this new rig that I dreamt of back when I was enlisted. A big thank you to Diz and the gents here who helped him with ideas. I'm pushing my friends to each buy a set as well. Cheers. View Quote Hey man, welcome to the board! Glad we could help :-) Nice name btw. Good play on words. |
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Originally Posted By marnsdorff: Hey man, welcome to the board! Glad we could help :-) Nice name btw. Good play on words. View Quote Thanks. I'll leave a quote from Ole Tommy P that motivated me in the army; "The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress, and grows brave by reflection." Thankfully we've got the DZ rig to make it a bit easier for us to turn distress into strength when we're out there suckin. |
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Ok. Here we go. This is a down and dirty DIY sewing instructions on doing binding tape edges for the rank newbie. First, I am NOT a sewing expert, as you will see. This is probably not the 'proper' way to do binding tape. The professional way is to use special, screwed to the baseplate attachments to the machine that automatically feed binding tape through. They are specialty, the nice ones are $$$, and they have a STEEP learning curve.
This guide is for the guy who has never done it and isn't planning on doing this professionally or in bulk. IE, you want to make 2 or 3 pieces of gear for yourself and want to make them actually look good the first time, without spending dozens of hours practicing on sewing binding tape. And there are better ways of doing it by hand too. But this is, again, a guide for someone not intending to do this more than a few times, but still wants it to look decent. I've done binding tape on dozens of large items and a couple dozen smaller items now, almost all of it by hand without the binding tape attachment (which I now have and am working on learning to use right) so I'm happy to pass on these tips for the guys who want to just make a few items. There are a few things I'll point out that I used as 'training wheels' to help me out, learning to use binding tape. All of these pictures were of work done with one of my domestic machines, an oldschool all-metal Singer Fashion Mate. Hit the spoiler below to see the pictures and tips. Warning, there are a bunch of them. Click To View Spoiler First off. The below is my first attempt at binding tape. This is the first prototype for a yoke. I've sewn before, and can generally stitch a basic straight line, but this was my first serious attempt at sewing anything real. You can see how rough my stitching was, and some major mistakes being made. Below is the same yoke as above. Again, you can see how rough it was. Ok, so the below picture is a different yoke. I think this was the 3rd yoke I did? 4th major item total. I am currently using it on my personal rig. You can see how much better the stitching is. Below is a belt prototype I was trying out, it was done sometime after the yokes above. You can see how much nicer the stitching is coming alone. Ok. So some general tips. Remember, these are for people wanting to try to make their first attempt at this look good. So you may want to consider pre-sewing the edges so that your fabric stack will stay together. This is only useful if you have multiple layers that arent attached some other way and you want to keep them from shifting while sewing. In this stack, there is a layer of stiffener interface and a thin poly batting sandwiched between 2 layers of cordura, one of them uncoated. If it's just a single or double layer, ignore this completely. The below picture. Those little mini-sewing clips are your friend. Get a couple hundred of them. Use them on binding tape liberally. Fold the binding tape in half, being careful to keep it even, it's easy to make the bottom half that is out of view too shallow, and you will stitch right past the tape on the far side. Put a TON of clips on the binding tape to hold it firmly into place, and taunt. I'd probably double what I put on there. (This is the same yoke arm that I showed finished picture of above, the one that looked halfway decent) And one more general tip. I forgot what these presser feet are called, and there are other feet that can do the same job, but this foot in the following picture can be used to help you keep you first stitch line at the same depth. You will eventually shift to doing it completely by hand, but this is a good first foot to try if you need your first attempt to look good. Ok. So first. Doing straight lines are easy. Just go slow, an inch or so at a time, removing those clips as you go. Realize that as you go, no matter how tight you put the tape, the presser foot will create more slack in front of your sewing as you go. This will probably only be apparent on much longer runs. My belts have over 2 yards of continuous binding tape for example. If you are careful and slow - always stop with the needle lowered into the fabric btw, don't stop with it up - then you can make the straight lines decent looking. The first issue you will probably run into will be the corners. You have 2 options - round them, but they will have to be relatively wide roundings or you will get a corner anyways. Or make a corner fold (I don't know the official name for it). I suggest, since you are doing it by hand and you need it to look good the first time, go with the hard 90 degree corner and double check your work and go slowly. So as you approach your first corner, you want the binding tape to 'fold' like in the following picture. Note: I recommend you put a clip on top of the 'fold', SIDEWAYS, to hold the fold in place. ie, see the clip in front of the fold? Scoot that one over to the left a bit, enough that your presser foot will clear it. And put another one directly on top of the fold, right on the corner, but SIDEWAYS, compared to the one you see. Just leave it right on there as you sew. Use the presser foot to slowly nudge it off the fabric as you go. You should be doing this one stitch at a time - even use the wheel by hand for the last few stitches as you round the corner. You have to get these just right. Take your time. Here you can see I'm starting to swivel (well, I started the stitch before) - you will go a stitch or two farther than you think you should probably before you should swivel. Again, this is why you do this by hand. After the first couple corners, you will quickly get the hang of when you want to start to swivel. Don't be afraid to do a little 'diagonal' instead of a straight 90 degree hard turn - this isn't going to be a professional piece. It will look better to do a diagonal in your turn (ie, swiveling 2 or 3 times in small turns, instead of one hard 90 degree turn) Either way works. I'm just saying don't be hard on yourself here. It will look fine either way. Note that you can see the clip I scooted over to allow the presser foot to clear. The presser foot will mess up if you try to push one of them off head-on. Sideways they come off ok. So here I am, I've completed the turn and am heading towards the next corner. This is how you want the corner to look like when you are done. If you get your first folds to look like this, really good job! Ok, so the following is how NOT to do a corner. So coming towards the corner.... (actually, one good thing to point out - the clip on the right is on 'sideways' like I said to do above. It's just not on top of the folded fold)...so coming towards the corner, there is no fold yet..... ....so you make your fold. You pull it tight, getting all the slack out of it (good job!) and then make your fold! But wait. Here I have messed up the fold. And I put the clip on diagonally, not sideways (it will get stuck under the presser foot, causing the foot to come up and screw up your tension, causing a birdsnest) Look carefully at how the fold is folded over. Compare it to the above CORRECT pictures. So I'm coming around the corner here. The mechanical moves aren't wrong - you will see there is a bit of a diagonal stitch to hold down the corner on this one in a second. But here, you can see the fold was wrong. Now. There is technically nothing WRONG with this - it's not going to fall apart or anything. The other way just looks better. If you are going to do it, then do it right. Ok. So, next. Inverse curves. These are a pain in the ass. Do NOT do 90 degree hard turns, unless you absolutely have to do so - just trust me. Even with a curve, they are hard to do. These still give me trouble now. Note that these 4 pictures are using my industrial machine, but it's the exact same with any machine. Also note the different style presser foot with a 'distance from edge' guide. Though these don't help with an inverse corner. Note that this is the same concept whether the inverse curve is wide (like around the inside of the neck area of a yoke or harness) or in a tight curve like in the picture below. The tighter the curve, the harder it is to make it look good. It is REALLY easy to make two different mistakes here - as you press into the corner, you will accidentally push it in tighter than you thought at first, which pulls slack from further on. Which will loosen the next couple clips. This will allow the tape to start slipping off, making it 'loose'. The second issue is you can accidentally pull the binding tape un-even, making the top or bottom bigger or smaller than the other side, causing the stitching to come off the tape. So here's the setup. This is one of my belts. This is the curve right up in front of the mag pouches. Diz has a similar notch on his belts, but his factory didn't do binding tape. I'll try and post a picture of a closeup of a professionally done belt I have here that uses a binding tape attachment to show you how it's SUPPOSED to look. Note the unfolded corner at the bottom - that's the corner we discussed doing above. Clear focused shot of the curve itself. Note how tight I have it in there. Here you are, approaching the curve. You will soon be swiveling. You will need to CAREFULLY slide that plastic buckle off as you swivel. Now, as you sew into the curve, you will CAREFULLY - and this will take a little practice - manually 'straighten' the curve, making a close to straight line. Note that this is a bit difficult. Don't try and force the stitching. Make sure it's laying flat and not hopped up on ridges. Sew right through the curve. Since this is going to be for yourself, I'd consider going back and putting an extra stitch line through this section, maybe even one diagonally across the corner, going off the binding tape onto the fabric on both ends. So the following is one of the surplus PLCE pouches I have sewn to a modern belt. I was using these belts to experiment with different ways of doing binding tape. I tried doing a couple with the tape attachment device. The other 3 I did by hand with different techniques. You can see I had trouble with this inverse corner, one of them I did by hand. Enough so I added a 3rd stitch line, running it off the binding tape on purpose. See the diagonal stitch NOT on the binding tape? This was back when I was doing 90 degree hard inverse corners. I would put a diagonal stich before doing the binding tape as a backup reinforcement for this corner. I'm SUPPOSED to get the tape at least over the stitch line, but this one I was off a little. It's still secure, with 2 stitch lines attaching the tape to the belt, but it just looks like crap. This is why I switched to a curved corner, it's just way easier to make look good. If you HAVE to have an inverse curve, make it as gradual as possible. The area around the neck on a yoke, for instance, is not going to be nearly this hard, but you still need to pay attention and go slowly or you will quickly mess it up. Learn from me. Avoid tight inverse corners. I spent more time getting these corners done than the rest of the belt binding tape combined. After doing a couple dozen of these belts with these corners, I'm not bad at them now. These early ones, the stitching there all look rough. Especially on the ones where I was experimenting with different ways of doing them. On a couple of these belts, the 'experiments' went bad and I had to pop the stitches and redo the binding. One of the belts, I had to redo ALL of the binding tape when I was fully halfway through it. I spent over an hour popping seams on that booboo alone. Ok, so other mistakes to look out for. This is the inverse curve along the inside of the neck of one of the harnesses I did. You can see where I didn't measure the tape correctly and let the fold get offline. This was on the bottom. When I went and flipped it over, I saw this - that carefully laid stitch right along the edge of the tape on the top? It slipped off the tape on the bottom. Now, this doesn't affect the actual use of this harness, there's nothing wrong with it technically. It just doesn't look professional. But it's easy to make this mistake worse than just not looking good. Be careful with your folding and holding the tape in place, especially around curves. Here's a real boo-boo. This is where I wasn't paying attention and allowed the fabric on the corner to slip up and fold over on itself. You can see the batting peaking out from under the binding tape. I had to go back and redo this section. Pain in the ass, when I could have just been more careful and double-checked everything. Ok. So here's one to watch out for. This REALLY messed with me on my domestic machines. It's not so bad on my industrial, but it still happens. This is sewing right along the edge, along a weird slope or where sudden vertical events happen. Here, I'm sewing along, putting a 2nd stitch line on the binding tape on a yoke. And it transitions from the flat, thin area back along the vented mesh area, moving up over the shoulder area, and suddenly hits a piece of webbing that tucked down under the binding tape. There is a sudden vertical shift that happens, along with a relatively thick stack to begin with. You can see where the foot suddenly slipped off the edge. This causes a number of problems - it obviously messes up your straight stitch line. You will have to redo it one way or the other. You will probably also want to run another line of stitching over the area as backup. And you can easily break a needle doing this just right. Another, better view of how badly it shifted off. Note that this doesn't just happen along the edges. This can happen anywhere you are sewing. Just be careful and slow down with any sudden change in elevation, or other strange changes. Thank you for following along with this expose on my early, crappy sewing techniques over the last year or so. For an idea how much sewing I've done to get to the point I'm at, I've put down about a mile (literally, I did the math) of thread over the last year or so I've been playing around with this. As long as I go slowly, I can now put out a product that actually looks good and isn't just functional. Would anyone be interested in a dedicated thread or subforum on how to DIY sew gear? Get some of the guys who know sewing far better than me to post up stuff maybe. |
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In the effort of making a contribution to the users of this fine system, I thought I'd share that my ruck setup seems to interface with the dz rig nicely.
I've currently got an early army molle rifleman ruck, plus side pouches and sleep system bag, mounted to the usmc filbe frame and its resting comfortably on the utility pouches of my dz rig. I'm about 5'9-5'10 and pretty much pulling all the slack out of the shoulders on the ruck, but it gets it into the perfect spot for me. |
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Originally Posted By PainefulCommonSense: I've followed this thread since very early on and today my DZ rig (ML in m81) showed up so I figured it was a good day to finally make an account. Years ago now I spent 3 years on a LRS team and I was a big fan of brit beltkit for that job, very happy to have this new rig that I dreamt of back when I was enlisted. A big thank you to Diz and the gents here who helped him with ideas. I'm pushing my friends to each buy a set as well. Cheers. View Quote Welcome to the board. Thank you for your service. |
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We are in the middle of a Communist Revolution in the USA.
There is no voting our way out of this. |
Marnsdorf: Excellent tutorial my brother!
CAP6888: Lookin' good brother. Don't be afraid of pulling it out and re-doing it. Sometimes it takes a few tries to get it right. That's how we learn and get better. On difficult patches, I've re-done things 2-3 times until it's passable. As long as the thread is completely on the tape, it fully functional. It's all about the attachment, and the right tape, which makes things much easier. Whenever you can, you need to get an attachment. First a parallel one that just bolts on and off, but eventually a 90 deg one, that's inbedded into the machine. The difference is phenomenal. Doing it without the attachment is the hardest way to go. BTDT. When it gets really crazy, as in inside curves and so forth, consider doing it in two steps. Draw a reference line on the back of the work, equal to where your tape will lay (so for 1" tape, roughly 1/2"). Now simply sew that one side down, following the reference line. Turn the work over and do the other side, trying to stay as close as possible to the first row of stitching. Some spray adhesive will also help. Yes, you will have a double row of stitching showing on the back side, but sometimes that's just what you have to do. Add in another row of stitching, approx 1/4" up, through the folded tape, if desired. Corners. Aye yi yi, don't get me started here. In the beginning you can simply sew to the end, cut net, and start another line of tape in the new direction. When completely done, trim ends and sear together. Might sound crude but saves a lot of time and aggro. To form a corner, sew to the end (or very near it). Leave needle down, and pivot work around it. The corners will try and form when you do this. To help them out, take a small screw flat tip driver, and form the 45 deg folds. The bottom one has to be done by feel; just takes some practice. Once the folds are straight, raise the needle and re-position it on the new corner, and drop it down by hand. Continue to march. Frankly I don't mess with folds very much any more. I just cut and sear whenever possible. Yeah the LRS brethren are the same as Bn recon in the Crotch, so for sure this is exactly what this rig was designed for. And I am lucky to have all you folks as well. |
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It's all about the fiddle factor.
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