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Originally Posted By marnsdorff: Originally Posted By rb889: I remember hearing Tribal Elite is the Crye knock off to go with for combat pants. ~$80. Supposed to be a stitch for stitch korean-made copy. Link? HERE Must have misremembered it. It’s “Elite Tribe” as the brand. ETA: Think it was one of the gear queers on youtube that talked about them, it’ll take me a bit to find the particular video. ETA 2: Found it. First place I heard about Elite Tribe was in a Wise Man Company video when looking into the Lunar Concepts stuff, checked a couple other reviews that were favorable. Consensus I’m seeing is that they’re 90~95% of the way to legit G3’s at ~1/3 the cost. If nothing else, they’re a great option for field and range training to avoid excess wear on actual Crye cammies. Unlike Crye, you can get them in a shitload of different camouflage patterns, including woodland for less than the cost of your firstborn. They tend to run a little small, so if you’re in between, or fairly close to the max of a size, go up a size. ETA 3: Also unlike Crye, the ET pants come with knee pads, so there’s another $20 saved. Apparently they bundle the $90 pants and $75 shirts together for $125, too. |
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Lunch break project. Needs testing.
Cut the top straps off surplus bladder carrier, sew (horrid hand awl work) loops for grimlock (sp?). Add buckles to top of sustainment pouches, to receive the lower straps/buckles already on the bladder carrier. For carrying more water after rucks are dropped. Attached File Attached File I though about just modifying the straps and then tucking them in the carrier, to avoid cutting them off…… but I hate those straps. |
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Originally Posted By Shootindave: Lunch break project. Needs testing. Cut the top straps off surplus bladder carrier, sew (horrid hand awl work) loops for grimlock (sp?). Add buckles to top of sustainment pouches, to receive the lower straps/buckles already on the bladder carrier. For carrying more water after rucks are dropped. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/123862/IMG_0066_jpeg-3213418.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/123862/IMG_0067_jpeg-3213421.JPG I though about just modifying the straps and then tucking them in the carrier, to avoid cutting them off…… but I hate those straps. View Quote I've got a HPG Tarahumara that I've got rigged as a mini assault pack that mostly is there to carry more water - water bladder and / or 2 x nalgene canteens. Along with a handful of misc. stuff. That's what I'm going to be playing with for extra water if I have to drop a ruck. |
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I only have a HPG Serape, but it is a Very nice item.
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The Serape is a really legit piece of gear.
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Ok, so question. Is there any interest in Templars Gear's new British style pouches coming out of Poland?
https://www.instagram.com/templarsgear/ (Their new pouches aren't on the site yet, they are being released in a few weeks) So I'm throwing around the idea of getting a dealership and trying a small order if there is enough interest. I think we have talked about them on here before, awhile back. Initially, I was all 'neat, it's nice seeing innovative tries at stuff, but meh'. Especially since they tried to stick to the oldschool British pouch ideas, but with modern materials. Until I saw their grenade pouches, which I kinda liked. Pics below. Some unique features - like the hold for the larger Russian grenades with the pins. I like the fact that they are dual-capable. Also, their tourniquet pouches are interesting. I hate just velcro-only tourniquet pouches, and have been using surplus flashbang pouches. But the Spanish closure system would be far faster in opening the tourniquet pouch than fastex buckles....Pics below. I included one of the mag pouches pictures. They also have similar AK pouches coming, check out their instagram page above for pics of alot of the pouches. But yea, I was thinking about getting a dealership, making a small order, which would drastically save anyone wanting some of their pouches on shipping + shipping would be to you guys from the USA, and prices would be less than what's on their page in Poland. But to do that, with everything else I have going on, I'd need to pre-sell some of the order. Not that this is NOT a pre-sale right now, simply trying to gauge interest if it's even feasible. Note that I can order anything on their site as part of the order. It doesn't have to be those pouches. |
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I like the closure, but I wish more velcro was added to the front of TQ holders, so you can attach the red flagging portion of the strap to be visible while the pouch is closed.
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Originally Posted By Shootindave: I like the closure, but I wish more velcro was added to the front of TQ holders, so you can attach the red flagging portion of the strap to be visible while the pouch is closed. View Quote If you look at the pictures, they actually have a laser-cut little cutout in the shape of a 'red cross' cross, that lets you see the red of the tourniquet through the lid of the pouch. It's actually a pretty good example of the good use of laser cutting in this kind of gear, some of the things we can eventually start implementing. |
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Originally Posted By marnsdorff: If you look at the pictures, they actually have a laser-cut little cutout in the shape of a 'red cross' cross, that lets you see the red of the tourniquet through the lid of the pouch. It's actually a pretty good example of the good use of laser cutting in this kind of gear, some of the things we can eventually start implementing. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By marnsdorff: Originally Posted By Shootindave: I like the closure, but I wish more velcro was added to the front of TQ holders, so you can attach the red flagging portion of the strap to be visible while the pouch is closed. If you look at the pictures, they actually have a laser-cut little cutout in the shape of a 'red cross' cross, that lets you see the red of the tourniquet through the lid of the pouch. It's actually a pretty good example of the good use of laser cutting in this kind of gear, some of the things we can eventually start implementing. |
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Originally Posted By marnsdorff: You're going to get water egress to a point anyways, But yea. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By marnsdorff: Originally Posted By raf: Interesting idea, but concerned about water ingress. You're going to get water egress to a point anyways, But yea. It's my belief that the internal volume of a given pouch ought to determine the number of water drains on the bottom of the pouch. IOW, the greater the internal volume of the pouch (or pack) the greater number of water drains. |
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Originally Posted By raf: Full-flapped pouch "lid' is supposed to prevent/retard water ingress, unless full immersion of the pouch occurs. In that event, multiple water drains are valuable. USGI pouches usually have single 1/4" I.D. water drains. Perhaps more drains might be preferable. It's my belief that the internal volume of a given pouch ought to determine the number of water drains on the bottom of the pouch. IOW, the greater the internal volume of the pouch (or pack) the greater number of water drains. View Quote Yea, most (if not all) pouches should have drain holes. |
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That there is some very innovative kit. I love the fuckin' hole for the commie grenade haha.
That is a very interesting closure system. Light years ahead of just velcro or SR buckles. But yeah new laminate, and yeah I hope they have some kind of drainage system. Maybe they added slots in the back wall like CF? I don't like laminate or plastic hang straps either, but that could be just me. If I didn't make the Diz rig, I would probably be getting these. Might anyways just to try out. |
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It's all about the fiddle factor.
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Originally Posted By Diz: That there is some very innovative kit. I love the fuckin' hole for the commie grenade haha. That is a very interesting closure system. Light years ahead of just velcro or SR buckles. But yeah new laminate, and yeah I hope they have some kind of drainage system. Maybe they added slots in the back wall like CF? I don't like laminate or plastic hang straps either, but that could be just me. If I didn't make the Diz rig, I would probably be getting these. Might anyways just to try out. View Quote That grenade hole is the one that made me go 'huh'. I need to remember that for when I do myself some grenade pouches. Yea, that closure system is cool. It's a good use of laser cut laminate material, especially how they use it to reinforce the front and bottom of the pouch, and wrap around the sides doing the same there, doubling as spoon holders for the grenades. This is the kind of forward thinking with laser cut stuff that interests me. So looking closely at pictures of the bottoms and back, and one of the bottom of the insides, I can't see ANY opening. Which sucks. That should be an easy fix too, for laser cut stuff. They also lack webbing tabs on the side for bungie cord retention. If they did those two things, and maybe add D-rings on the top of the major pouches (ammo, utility, and water pouches) I think they would have a really decent product. The only thing I'd be worried about at that point is the molle attachment on the back. Which might be fine, I dunno. But the pouches in general seem to be nicely made. Stitching looks decent, and they fixed alot of the laminate problem by lining the whole thing with that same rubberized cordura fabric that the British surplus pouches have. That should heavily reinforce the pouches and fix alot of the durability issues. I think I'm going to mention to them about these changes. I've already been talking to them about a dealership. |
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i am not sure about that black plastic lining if it will be stable or it will crack or deform without coming back into shape, looks like that where it is creased they punched holes and folded it. Seem like the made the malice style clips with the same material.
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Yeah not a fan of attachment straps that are not nylon webbing. Maybe I'm old school but a lot of this stuff just isn't proven in field conditions yet.
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It's all about the fiddle factor.
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Originally Posted By marnsdorff: Ok, so question. Is there any interest in Templars Gear's new British style pouches coming out of Poland? https://www.instagram.com/templarsgear/ (Their new pouches aren't on the site yet, they are being released in a few weeks) So I'm throwing around the idea of getting a dealership and trying a small order if there is enough interest. I think we have talked about them on here before, awhile back. Initially, I was all 'neat, it's nice seeing innovative tries at stuff, but meh'. Especially since they tried to stick to the oldschool British pouch ideas, but with modern materials. Until I saw their grenade pouches, which I kinda liked. Pics below. Some unique features - like the hold for the larger Russian grenades with the pins. I like the fact that they are dual-capable. Also, their tourniquet pouches are interesting. I hate just velcro-only tourniquet pouches, and have been using surplus flashbang pouches. But the Spanish closure system would be far faster in opening the tourniquet pouch than fastex buckles....Pics below. I included one of the mag pouches pictures. They also have similar AK pouches coming, check out their instagram page above for pics of alot of the pouches. But yea, I was thinking about getting a dealership, making a small order, which would drastically save anyone wanting some of their pouches on shipping + shipping would be to you guys from the USA, and prices would be less than what's on their page in Poland. But to do that, with everything else I have going on, I'd need to pre-sell some of the order. Not that this is NOT a pre-sale right now, simply trying to gauge interest if it's even feasible. Note that I can order anything on their site as part of the order. It doesn't have to be those pouches. https://i.ibb.co/rt48dpg/421980960-854440110044246-2922099455200421804-n.jpg https://i.ibb.co/tZHBTVP/440748379-854439876710936-5040434827761944458-n.jpg https://i.ibb.co/4SBLpDj/438100007-854439886710935-20088353007817620-n.jpg https://i.ibb.co/Fm3s8zt/438145462-854455193376071-9172248716985770654-n.jpg https://i.ibb.co/DDrhHPW/438098231-852852420203015-981384054743513745-n.jpg View Quote The plastic makes them look quite stiff/rigid? Now, I’ve not been there done that, but one of the things I like about standard nylon pouches is the ability to compress down when it’s not being used/filled. |
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Originally Posted By joeviterbo: i am not sure about that black plastic lining if it will be stable or it will crack or deform without coming back into shape, looks like that where it is creased they punched holes and folded it. Seem like the made the malice style clips with the same material. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By joeviterbo: i am not sure about that black plastic lining if it will be stable or it will crack or deform without coming back into shape, looks like that where it is creased they punched holes and folded it. Seem like the made the malice style clips with the same material. Originally Posted By na1lb0hm: The plastic makes them look quite stiff/rigid? Now, I’ve not been there done that, but one of the things I like about standard nylon pouches is the ability to compress down when it’s not being used/filled. I don't think it's plastic guys. It looks like it's the same black rubberized nylon fabric that the British use in their surplus PLCE type pouches pouches. It's really good stuff (The British surplus PLCE pouches in general are really good, especially for the money) The newer Osprey pouches (the MTP camo ones) have a similar greenish version. They line their pouches with it. It's completely waterproof, far thicker layer than Cordura's lining, and is more durable. It also doesn't flake off eventually like the Cordura stuff does. I've got British pouches from 1990 that were pretty heavily used, and the rubberized fabric is still totally useable. It's not stiff like plastic, but it's....stiffer. Think like a decently thick piece of leather. You can collapse the pouches, but they tend to hold their open shape well too. |
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This is something I go back n forth on. I love the extra "ass" this sort of stiffener adds, but it also adds weight/complexity/cost. Yes being able to press it flat when not in use is a nice feature. But so is it keeping it's shape for easier insertion, and closing of the lid.
Gonna sorta depend on you and where you're at. In a wet jungle, the extra stiffness is a plus. In artic conditions, probably not as important. Just depends. But drainage is also usually important. Unless you want a completely encapsulated pouch for dry, dusty areas. Hard to make a pouch fit for all seasons. |
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It's all about the fiddle factor.
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The (usually) black coating inside most Brit pouches seems to be far more durable than the Polyurethane coating inside most USGI pouches, but likely adds a bit of weight. The coating will abrade and leak, given enough rough usage, but some carefully applied duct tape over the easily seen abrasion locations will fix that.
I've seen some pouches with metal drain grommets which had some 3/4" wide loose weave, and non-waterproof material sewed on points on either side of the metal drain grommet. Seems a reasonable compromise between water drainage and dust ingress. Trade-off. |
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Originally Posted By Diz: This is something I go back n forth on. I love the extra "ass" this sort of stiffener adds, but it also adds weight/complexity/cost. Yes being able to press it flat when not in use is a nice feature. But so is it keeping it's shape for easier insertion, and closing of the lid. Gonna sorta depend on you and where you're at. In a wet jungle, the extra stiffness is a plus. In artic conditions, probably not as important. Just depends. But drainage is also usually important. Unless you want a completely encapsulated pouch for dry, dusty areas. Hard to make a pouch fit for all seasons. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Diz: This is something I go back n forth on. I love the extra "ass" this sort of stiffener adds, but it also adds weight/complexity/cost. Yes being able to press it flat when not in use is a nice feature. But so is it keeping it's shape for easier insertion, and closing of the lid. Gonna sorta depend on you and where you're at. In a wet jungle, the extra stiffness is a plus. In artic conditions, probably not as important. Just depends. But drainage is also usually important. Unless you want a completely encapsulated pouch for dry, dusty areas. Hard to make a pouch fit for all seasons. Originally Posted By raf: The (usually) black coating inside most Brit pouches seems to be far more durable than the Polyurethane coating inside most USGI pouches, but likely adds a bit of weight. The coating will abrade and leak, given enough rough usage, but some carefully applied duct tape over the easily seen abrasion locations will fix that. I've seen some pouches with metal drain grommets which had some 3/4" wide loose weave, and non-waterproof material sewed on points on either side of the metal drain grommet. Seems a reasonable compromise between water drainage and dust ingress. Trade-off. I think the British surplus pouches walk a pretty solid line with all the factors. They are a bit heavy, but I think the durability and (lack of) cost vastly outweigh the cons on this one. I've been through over 100 British surplus PLCE and osprey pouches with that liner, and out of those, maybe 4 or 5 of the have had the liner really worn enough to worry - but the pouches were still totally usable. The 1000d cordura is failing before the liner 90% of the time on them. And yea, duct tape is a quick fix for those. I've said it before, while not perfect, if I were handed a rig with the British pouches on it, I wouldn't complain about the pouches. I fully believe that a set of oldschool PLCE pouches, with the attachment hardware taken off the backside, and sewn down to a modern British style belt kit belt like we have been discussing, is a VERY solid option for someone on a budget. But no one wants to rock old surplus pouches that are 30 years old when you have new gucci laser cut molle hotness that costs 5 times as much. And that's an interesting idea about the cloth covering for the drain holes. I need to remember that. Uncoated cordura would be a good candidate for that. |
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Originally Posted By marnsdorff: I think the British surplus pouches walk a pretty solid line with all the factors. They are a bit heavy, but I think the durability and (lack of) cost vastly outweigh the cons on this one. I've been through over 100 British surplus PLCE and osprey pouches with that liner, and out of those, maybe 4 or 5 of the have had the liner really worn enough to worry - but the pouches were still totally usable. The 1000d cordura is failing before the liner 90% of the time on them. And yea, duct tape is a quick fix for those. I've said it before, while not perfect, if I were handed a rig with the British pouches on it, I wouldn't complain about the pouches. I fully believe that a set of oldschool PLCE pouches, with the attachment hardware taken off the backside, and sewn down to a modern British style belt kit belt like we have been discussing, is a VERY solid option for someone on a budget. But no one wants to rock old surplus pouches that are 30 years old when you have new gucci laser cut molle hotness that costs 5 times as much. And that's an interesting idea about the cloth covering for the drain holes. I need to remember that. Uncoated cordura would be a good candidate for that. View Quote |
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So practical, yet still so retro.
Pics like those still amaze me, there Is clearly word of mouth suggestions on what is "good stuff", either by older comrades or from clerks working in shops near barracks. Preassembled Plce and Munro style packs all over again (dragon supplies Patrol pack maybe in the Pic). Not saying that those are bad, they are almost perfect. If you did some Time in the army you cant help but smirk at the pic. Also i see no issue tactical Gear in the Pic. I thought Virtus, atleast assembled for CEFO (short Patrol/assault/close quarter, call It how you want) was a reasonably user friendly design. Edit: not to confuse anyone by CEFO i meant the (current?) "fight light" approach: -Body armor with admin stuff, 3 mags, 1 frag grenades, gunshot kit (bandage/tourniquet/morphine), personal radio -Belt kit with 1 canteen, 3 mags, ifak, rifle cleaning kit, nvg, bayonet, smoke grenade (to be put into body armor of ditching the belt for assault) -daysack with mess tin, esbit stove, glasses, another canteen, hat, gloves, Rain jacket, warming layer lang sleeve shirt, face Paint, Emergency rations, standard rations, leatherman, extra ammo or team items, tams (a binder with blank sheets and various notes) To that there Is to be added: -a rucksack with sleeping bag, bivy bag and poncho or tarp, rations for 2 days, shovel, clothing (spare uniform, 3*underwear, Rain pants, extra warming layers as needed, maybe a jetboil, cleaning/wash/repair kit. Ideally not to be carried by the soldiers, but by vehicles. -duffle bags (not individual) with extra content sealed in individual bags, not to be carried by soldiers but by vehicles. Granted that "carrying by vehicles" Is not something Easy in a jungle environment. |
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Originally Posted By joeviterbo: So practical, yet still so retro. Pics like those still amaze me, there Is clearly word of mouth suggestions on what is "good stuff", either by older comrades or from clerks working in shops near barracks. Preassembled Plce and Munro style packs all over again (dragon supplies Patrol pack maybe in the Pic). Not saying that those are bad, they are almost perfect. If you did some Time in the army you cant help but smirk at the pic. Also i see no issue tactical Gear in the Pic. I thought Virtus, atleast assembled for CEFO (short Patrol/assault/close quarter, call It how you want) was a reasonably user friendly design. Edit: not to confuse anyone by CEFO i meant the (current?) "fight light" approach: -Body armor with admin stuff, 3 mags, 1 frag grenades, gunshot kit (bandage/tourniquet/morphine), personal radio -Belt kit with 1 canteen, 3 mags, ifak, rifle cleaning kit, nvg, bayonet, smoke grenade (to be put into body armor of ditching the belt for assault) -daysack with mess tin, esbit stove, glasses, another canteen, hat, gloves, Rain jacket, warming layer lang sleeve shirt, face Paint, Emergency rations, standard rations, leatherman, extra ammo or team items, tams (a binder with blank sheets and various notes) To that there Is to be added: -a rucksack with sleeping bag, bivy bag and poncho or tarp, rations for 2 days, shovel, clothing (spare uniform, 3*underwear, Rain pants, extra warming layers as needed, maybe a jetboil, cleaning/wash/repair kit. Ideally not to be carried by the soldiers, but by vehicles. -duffle bags (not individual) with extra content sealed in individual bags, not to be carried by soldiers but by vehicles. Granted that "carrying by vehicles" Is not something Easy in a jungle environment. View Quote Either drones, or small tracked vehicles would probably be a necessity for that use. Another reason I’m a fan of the German Wiesel 1 tankette, at least in design philosophy. |
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You can take the VC out of the jungle...
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It's all about the fiddle factor.
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There is still a case to be made for steel frame bicycles, it appears.
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Make bicycle infantry great again.
There was a video showing ukrainians doing recon in electric bicycles. I can't remember if the warrior assault system patrol belt kit was discussed, looks like there is a silent closure for the mag pouches made like the old eagle industries ones, with a hook attached with elastic to the flap that attaches to a loop of webbing on the pouch body. I also discovered this brand: Carters tailoring My DZ rig showed up today. someday i'd like to make an analysis of it against other designs, i have more or less a few ideas on various things to write about. |
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I kind of feel like a dedicated thread for the “light fighter” would be cool. Not sure if it would be a newer gear thread for sustainment load outs or what the focus would be.
Sustainment webbing, rucks, water, sleep system, signaling/comms, navigation……. Team/leadership level items that support some of those tasks. Do you have a tactical yarn kit for terrain models? We would like to hear your story, lol |
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Originally Posted By Shootindave: Do you have a tactical yarn kit for terrain models? We would like to hear your story, lol View Quote monopoly houses, plastic farm animals, colored chalks, nutmeg grater and a laser pointer for cats stuffed in a jack daniels christmas bag (crown royale is uncommon here). perfection. |
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What's the grater for?
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i have seen at larger unit level that it was used to grind down those large kids' drawing chalk to make powder to draw large maps. also seen bottles of already powdered chalk. that was a larger kit that was carried in an ammo can for grenades if i recall correctly.
Joking aside, for a smaller unit level i would suggest to just print a few markers (like the ones you find for free online), plus some cartoon soldiers in various poses instead of the plastic ones (simple clipart type ones with bright colored different uniforms). laminate the things alongside a piece of scrap metal or a coin to make them slightly heavy and resistant to wind. Add a few meters of yarn (i used those thin silky flat ribbons instead) and a few of those tiny garden style marker stakes, plus some blank laminated cards and a felt tip pen. That should all fits flat in a zippered sleeve inside your tams/binder. |
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Originally Posted By Ex_Sanguine_Nation: There is still a case to be made for steel frame bicycles, it appears. View Quote You can do alot in rough terrain with bicycles, handcarts (especially if double-setup to be pulled behind an ATV), and in the winter a pulk. And pack animals. Which can partially sustain themselves in alot of these terrains. |
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Originally Posted By joeviterbo: Make bicycle infantry great again. View Quote Bicycles can do ALOT to help foot infantry out. Imagine doing road marches, pushing your massive ruck on a bike instead of carrying it on your back. Especially in mountainous terrain. You could carry far more ammo and food than just on foot. |
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Originally Posted By Shootindave: I kind of feel like a dedicated thread for the “light fighter” would be cool. Not sure if it would be a newer gear thread for sustainment load outs or what the focus would be. Sustainment webbing, rucks, water, sleep system, signaling/comms, navigation……. Team/leadership level items that support some of those tasks. View Quote We've kind of done this in this thread, touching on supporting stuff a bit here and there. Specifically related to belt kit. I guess we could start a dedicated thread. EDIT: Thread started https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Sustainment-Support-Leadership-Gear-re-Light-Fighter-Related/10-551977/ |
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For those interested, Grey Ghost Gear is currently having a 45% off site-wide sale which includes what appears to be a clone of the Tactical Tailor MALICE pack frame at 45% off GGG's lower price: GGG Pack Frame
As a reference, here's the TT MALICE pack frame: TT MALICE pack frame I believe there is some sort of affiliation between GGG and TT. Compare the pix in links above; frames appear to be identical except that one is marked TT, and the other GGG. Text in both product descriptions is quite "similar". Limited time sale. @Diz @marnsdorff |
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Originally Posted By Shootindave: Lunch break project. Needs testing. Cut the top straps off surplus bladder carrier, sew (horrid hand awl work) loops for grimlock (sp?). Add buckles to top of sustainment pouches, to receive the lower straps/buckles already on the bladder carrier. For carrying more water after rucks are dropped. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/123862/IMG_0066_jpeg-3213418.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/123862/IMG_0067_jpeg-3213421.JPG I though about just modifying the straps and then tucking them in the carrier, to avoid cutting them off…… but I hate those straps. View Quote I like this! Been debating on different water setups for carrying more water especially during these summer months down here. |
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Do you even OODA loop?
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The US marines ilbe hydration Carrier may be adapted quite well too as It has fastex buckles.
Brits developed doctrine to use unneeded hydro carrier on short assaults to carry squad radios. That 3l capacity Is good to carry something. It can also hold a small "spine" type ballistic/frag plate if Need be. Raf, GGG items are made by tactical tailor, they have an ongoing cordial business partnership dating back atleast 15 years. Don't know if ggg Is 100% berry complaint, TT Is. |
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Originally Posted By joeviterbo: The US marines ilbe hydration Carrier may be adapted quite well too as It has fastex buckles. Brits developed doctrine to use unneeded hydro carrier on short assaults to carry squad radios. That 3l capacity Is good to carry something. It can also hold a small "spine" type ballistic/frag plate if Need be. Raf, GGG items are made by tactical tailor, they have an ongoing cordial business partnership dating back atleast 15 years. Don't know if ggg Is 100% berry complaint, TT Is. View Quote Yea, GGG is a sister company of TT. |
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Sweet. Love the different camo.
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It's all about the fiddle factor.
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Originally Posted By Ex_Sanguine_Nation: I did not know that! Huh. Was that part of the continuation of TT post the death of the founder and CEO, or did it precede that? View Quote More like that dude at the family reunion who married his 3rd cousin? Different beast, just closely related. If I remember correctly. |
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