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Posted: 1/2/2015 6:58:43 PM EDT
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So, I'm a newby at this reloading stuff. Been doing it for less than 2 years. This week I started in on some mixed .223/5.56 brass prep I've been putting off.
I just realized my WFT won't trim the mixed brass to the same consistent length. Very disappointed. I'm not shooting matches or anything like that, but I was hoping to get consistent trim length using it. My ignorance prevented me from realizing this before I bought it. Oh well, rant over. What do you guys recommend for someone who will be trimming mixed brass shot from different guns? |
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Quoted: Doesn't the wft index off the shoulder? If so the likely culprit is the resizing I have yet to start reloading for rifles, but this is my understanding as well. If you're getting variance, it's either your technique, or your cases aren't sized correctly (maybe the shellplate of your press is flexing, maybe your die isn't tight in the press, etc.) Hopefully someone with some hands-on knowledge will chime in. |
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Yep. OP, make sure your mixed brass is consistently resized, and the WFT will trim it to a consistent length. Quoted:
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Doesn't the wft index off the shoulder? If so the likely culprit is the resizing Yep. OP, make sure your mixed brass is consistently resized, and the WFT will trim it to a consistent length. It was all sized this morning using the same die on a 550b. |
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Different brands/headstamp brass might have different springback after being resized giving you a different length from casehead to shoulder.
Separate different headstamps and when you finish one brand and start in on another recheck the amount sized and reset die to get the correct amount or resizing. When checking the amount resized and adjusting the die, use a different piece of brass each time till you get it just right. Then trim. Good luck. |
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So, I'm a newby at this reloading stuff. Been doing it for less than 2 years. This week I started in on some mixed .223/5.56 brass prep I've been putting off. I just realized my WFT won't trim the mixed brass to the same consistent length. Very disappointed. I'm not shooting matches or anything like that, but I was hoping to get consistent trim length using it. My ignorance prevented me from realizing this before I bought it. Oh well, rant over. What do you guys recommend for someone who will be trimming mixed brass shot from different guns? So what's your length range? Different cases have different case wall thickness, and different elasticity. I'm not surprised "mixed brass" sized differently and then were trimmed to different lengths. But back to the question; what is your range in case length? A little bit is no big deal. |
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How far off are we talking? Do you have a headspace gauge that is capable of measuring the resized brass? Hornady sells a tool that can hook up to your calipers, but I've heard of folks just using a bushing from the hardware store that is larger than the neck to do the same thing.
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Different brands/headstamp brass might have different springback after being resized giving you a different length from casehead to shoulder. Separate different headstamps and when you finish one brand and start in on another recheck the amount sized and reset die to get the correct amount or resizing. When checking the amount resized and adjusting the die, use a different piece of brass each time till you get it just right. Then trim. Good luck. This is what I was afraid of. I was hoping to avoid separating headstamps and starting over for each headstamp. This will be blasting/plinking ammo. |
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So what's your length range? Different cases have different case wall thickness, and different elasticity. I'm not surprised "mixed brass" sized differently and then were trimmed to different lengths. But back to the question; what is your range in case length? A little bit is no big deal. Quoted:
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So, I'm a newby at this reloading stuff. Been doing it for less than 2 years. This week I started in on some mixed .223/5.56 brass prep I've been putting off. I just realized my WFT won't trim the mixed brass to the same consistent length. Very disappointed. I'm not shooting matches or anything like that, but I was hoping to get consistent trim length using it. My ignorance prevented me from realizing this before I bought it. Oh well, rant over. What do you guys recommend for someone who will be trimming mixed brass shot from different guns? So what's your length range? Different cases have different case wall thickness, and different elasticity. I'm not surprised "mixed brass" sized differently and then were trimmed to different lengths. But back to the question; what is your range in case length? A little bit is no big deal. I set the WFT using a piece of brass that measured 1.750. I am getting chamfered and deburred brass that measure 1.747-1.757 |
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Quoted: This is what I was afraid of. I was hoping to avoid separating headstamps and starting over for each headstamp. This will be blasting/plinking ammo. Quoted: Quoted: Different brands/headstamp brass might have different springback after being resized giving you a different length from casehead to shoulder. Separate different headstamps and when you finish one brand and start in on another recheck the amount sized and reset die to get the correct amount or resizing. When checking the amount resized and adjusting the die, use a different piece of brass each time till you get it just right. Then trim. Good luck. This is what I was afraid of. I was hoping to avoid separating headstamps and starting over for each headstamp. This will be blasting/plinking ammo. Set the trimmer to trim to 1.740. SAAMI min for case length is 1.730 so you have plenty of cushion for the shorter rounds and the longer ones are still below trim-to spec. I doubt very highly you will notice a difference in accuracy especially for blasting/plinking. You will likely encounter issues with crimping, but you will have the same issues with your current range of trim lengths anyway. I wouldn't crimp .223 anyway so it's a moot point for me.
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.010 is enough that you should be able to see the difference visually. Are you sure that your bushing housing is locked securely to the endmill cutter, that you're using uniform pressure while sizing, giving them a half twist at the end of each one, and aren't going nuts on the debur/chamfer ? On the later, you only want to be breaking the edge, and removing the extra material, make sure you aren't removing enough to affect the length. The uneven pressre as you get used to it is likley enough to take you from .750 to 747 (and I'd just shoot those, and not give it a second thought.) Also, make sure you aren't getting brass trimmings caught between the shell and the bearing, that's probably the cause of your oversize cases. Blow out with air compressor every now and again. At the end of the day, .760 is the max length, so all of your cases are now under that. If you don't crimp them, (I never crimp rifle rounds) they'll likley shoot just fine for plinking rounds. I imagine you'll trim them all next time anyway, so you'll get plenty of practice. PS, get something that you can measure the sized brass, either the hornady tool, the RCBS Micrometer tool, the Mo's Gauge, or the a fore mentioned hardware store bushing with 1/4" ID. (1/4 is .250, the external case neck is probably somewhere around .246-243 depending on your brass wall thickness)
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.010 is enough that you should be able to see the difference visually. Are you sure that your bushing housing is locked securely to the endmill cutter, that you're using uniform pressure while sizing, giving them a half twist at the end of each one, and aren't going nuts on the debur/chamfer ? On the later, you only want to be breaking the edge, and removing the extra material, make sure you aren't removing enough to affect the length. The uneven pressre as you get used to it is likley enough to take you from .750 to 747 (and I'd just shoot those, and not give it a second thought.)No I'm not sure Also, make sure you aren't getting brass trimmings caught between the shell and the bearing, that's probably the cause of your oversize cases. Blow out with air compressor every now and again. At the end of the day, .760 is the max length, so all of your cases are now under that. If you don't crimp them, (I never crimp rifle rounds) they'll likley shoot just fine for plinking rounds. I imagine you'll trim them all next time anyway, so you'll get plenty of practice.I don'tcrimp mine,either. I figured they'd be good enough, but just wanted to make sure PS, get something that you can measure the sized brass, either the hornady tool, the RCBS Micrometer tool, the Mo's Gauge, or the a fore mentioned hardware store bushing with 1/4" ID. (1/4 is .250, the external case neck is probably somewhere around .246-243 depending on your brass wall thickness) |
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Set the trimmer to trim to 1.740. SAAMI min for case length is 1.730 so you have plenty of cushion for the shorter rounds and the longer ones are still below trim-to spec. I doubt very highly you will notice a difference in accuracy especially for blasting/plinking. You will likely encounter issues with crimping, but you will have the same issues with your current range of trim lengths anyway. I wouldn't crimp .223 anyway so it's a moot point for me. Quoted:
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Different brands/headstamp brass might have different springback after being resized giving you a different length from casehead to shoulder. Separate different headstamps and when you finish one brand and start in on another recheck the amount sized and reset die to get the correct amount or resizing. When checking the amount resized and adjusting the die, use a different piece of brass each time till you get it just right. Then trim. Good luck. This is what I was afraid of. I was hoping to avoid separating headstamps and starting over for each headstamp. This will be blasting/plinking ammo. Set the trimmer to trim to 1.740. SAAMI min for case length is 1.730 so you have plenty of cushion for the shorter rounds and the longer ones are still below trim-to spec. I doubt very highly you will notice a difference in accuracy especially for blasting/plinking. You will likely encounter issues with crimping, but you will have the same issues with your current range of trim lengths anyway. I wouldn't crimp .223 anyway so it's a moot point for me. Your comment about accuracy is what I was most concerned about. I don't crimp so,yes, it's a moot point. Thanks for the help! |
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If you don't have means for measuring case headspace, I highly recommend it for a number of reasons. Worth checking. How are you lubing your cases before sizing, and what brand/kind of sizing die are you using? Lee pacesetter, hornady sizing wax. A little on my fingers, rub it on as I pick up the case and insert it into the shellplate. |
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Lee pacesetter, hornady sizing wax. A little on my fingers, rub it on as I pick up the case and insert it into the shellplate. Quoted:
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If you don't have means for measuring case headspace, I highly recommend it for a number of reasons. Worth checking. How are you lubing your cases before sizing, and what brand/kind of sizing die are you using? Lee pacesetter, hornady sizing wax. A little on my fingers, rub it on as I pick up the case and insert it into the shellplate. Do you put any inside the case neck? |
| I had this problem with my WFT when i first started. The problem was starting and stopping the drill would allow brass shavings to enter the area where the brass pushes up against trimmer resulting in different C.O.L.. This would cause my brass to trim long so i would readjust it. Then when the shavings fell out, my cases came out short. I keep a few qtips around so if i stop the drill i can just wipe the shavings out. My WFT now trims with a .001+ or - accuracy. |
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Do you put any inside the case neck? Quoted:
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If you don't have means for measuring case headspace, I highly recommend it for a number of reasons. Worth checking. How are you lubing your cases before sizing, and what brand/kind of sizing die are you using? Lee pacesetter, hornady sizing wax. A little on my fingers, rub it on as I pick up the case and insert it into the shellplate. Do you put any inside the case neck? No |
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I had this problem with my WFT when i first started. The problem was starting and stopping the drill would allow brass shavings to enter the area where the brass pushes up against trimmer resulting in different C.O.L.. This would cause my brass to trim long so i would readjust it. Then when the shavings fell out, my cases came out short. I keep a few qtips around so if i stop the drill i can just wipe the shavings out. My WFT now trims with a .001+ or - accuracy. Thanks for the tip. I'll check to see if this is my problem. |
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If you don't have means for measuring case headspace, I highly recommend it for a number of reasons. Worth checking. How are you lubing your cases before sizing, and what brand/kind of sizing die are you using? Lee pacesetter, hornady sizing wax. A little on my fingers, rub it on as I pick up the case and insert it into the shellplate. Do you put any inside the case neck? No You need the get a little bit of lube inside the case neck, otherwise the resizer ball can stretch your cases back out after the shoulder has been set back, and you wind up with more headspace variation. It's probably not the only issue here, but it's likely a significant contributor. |
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You need the get a little bit of lube inside the case neck, otherwise the resizer ball can stretch your cases back out after the shoulder has been set back, and you wind up with more headspace variation. It's probably not the only issue here, but it's likely a significant contributor. Quoted:
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If you don't have means for measuring case headspace, I highly recommend it for a number of reasons. Worth checking. How are you lubing your cases before sizing, and what brand/kind of sizing die are you using? Lee pacesetter, hornady sizing wax. A little on my fingers, rub it on as I pick up the case and insert it into the shellplate. Do you put any inside the case neck? No You need the get a little bit of lube inside the case neck, otherwise the resizer ball can stretch your cases back out after the shoulder has been set back, and you wind up with more headspace variation. It's probably not the only issue here, but it's likely a significant contributor. Ok, this makes sense. Thanks for the help! I'm assuming just touching the case neck rim before rubbing the rest of the brass will apply enough lube? |
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I had to send two "Trim IT" tools back due to "wobble" in the mechanism. They were mis machined and left too much runout in the area the carbide end mill passes through the tool. #1 you should use a fairly high speed drill or press. Lower speeds will not allow the cutter to cut well #2, check to make sure when running, the unit does not wobble any. It should spin true. #3 Make sure no brass is between unit/die and the end mill cutter |
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[snip] Ok, this makes sense. Thanks for the help! I'm assuming just touching the case neck rim before rubbing the rest of the brass will apply enough lube? Yeah, I just rub my finger over the mouth to get a little lube inside when using sizing wax. With the lanolin-based spray, I use a cardboard box to get bulk cases to stand upright, then spray down from above to get some lube inside the necks. |
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I have dramatically improved trim lengths on every caliber by allowing the case to spin 360 degrees while applying slight pressure after the blades "seem" to have stopped cutting. This allows the blade to get the shortest possible cut all the way around the case mouth. There is always slight misalignment of any cutter head to the case mouth and allowing the case to rotate in the case holder eliminates this problem.
I get +/- .001" overall lengths using this method when trimming identically headstamped brass. As already mentioned different brands and different lot numbers of identical brass (perhaps age related) will resize differently, sometimes as much as .002" to .003", which will show up on any trimmer that uses the shoulder (datum line) as a reference. I try to adjust my dies to resize all brass to SAAMI minimum headspace using Mo DeFina's or Hornady's Lock-N-Load headspace gages. This requires different die setting depending on who's brass is being used. I use a captured O-ring under my seating dies which allows me to tighten or loosen +/- .002" headspace without moving the lock ring. |
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