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Posted: 1/8/2025 5:43:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: WELD][Edited]
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Just the A&D book? All of the 4473s too? Invoices, FFL copies, and such from the acquisition side? Thanks. |
| https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/what-records-are-licensees-required-forward-atf-when-discontinuing-their-business |
Living on your knees, conformity
Or dying on your feet for honesty
Or dying on your feet for honesty
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Originally Posted By tarfu64: A&D, all 4473’s. All of it. Oh sure, there’s no list… Attached File |
Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
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Originally Posted By Aggie_Gunner: I had to send my A&D book and all 4473’s to Utah. Huh? I've never heard that. Its always been Martinsburg, WV. to the National Tracing Center or your local ATF office. Discontinue Being a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) |
Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Huh? I've never heard that. Its always been Martinsburg, WV. My IOI came and picked them up personally. Had me sign a letter stating I was surrendering them and shutting down. It was actually really convenient. |
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Originally Posted By -Obsessed-: My IOI came and picked them up personally. Had me sign a letter stating I was surrendering them and shutting down. It was actually really convenient. When I switched to an 07 I had the same experience. Twenty bankers boxes in her mini van. 
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Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Huh? I've never heard that. Its always been Martinsburg, WV. to the National Tracing Center or your local ATF office. Discontinue Being a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Originally Posted By Aggie_Gunner: I had to send my A&D book and all 4473’s to Utah. Huh? I've never heard that. Its always been Martinsburg, WV. to the National Tracing Center or your local ATF office. Discontinue Being a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) This was in 2007. All my stuff went to UT. I believe Salt Lake City… (unless I am mis-remembering something). I was type 07 |
I tried that whole cancer thing. It wasn't for me. Good Riddance.
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I have no evidence to support it, but I always figured all that data was immediately entered into a database. Otherwise, what good it is it for searches, the supposed reason for sending it in? Perhaps, as someone posted, I'm giving the government way too much credit for competence. I hope so. |
“As long as none of us gets hurt, we’re making memories.” - one GA trooper to another after shooting HOSTAGE 9 times
Their SHAME has become their PRIDE
K-3/9
Their SHAME has become their PRIDE
K-3/9
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Originally Posted By Jodan1776: I have no evidence to support it, but I always figured all that data was immediately entered into a database. Otherwise, what good it is it for searches, the supposed reason for sending it in? Perhaps, as someone posted, I'm giving the government way too much credit for competence. I hope so. They are digitizing it all. It is not a secret. |
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My brick and mortar FFL retired a couple years ago and he just kept his FFL and is now a kitchen table dealer. So he never sent all his paper in. He’s got bankers boxes of 4473’s that fill half of his basement from decades in the business. It would be a shame if he would have a broken pipe and flood that basement.
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Originally Posted By Jodan1776: I have no evidence to support it, but I always figured all that data was immediately entered into a database. Otherwise, what good it is it for searches, the supposed reason for sending it in? Perhaps, as someone posted, I'm giving the government way too much credit for competence. I hope so. ATF does scan the 4473, but supposedly does not allow for a "searchable" database. Federal law prohibits a firearms registry, but requires ATF to maintain a database of out of business records. It's been covered ad nauseum on AR15, but here it is again: When a dealer submits his OOB records to ATF they are stored at Martinsburg, WV in shipping containers in a parking lot. When the National Tracing Center has a trace request from an LE agency, they first contact the manufacturer>distributor>retailer until they get to the first transfer from the FFL to the nonlicensee. NTC will ask that dealer to fax/email a copy of that Form 4473 to them. Typically the trace ends there. If the licensee is out of business, then ATF will search the out of business records in Martinsburg. They have images of the bound books/4473's on microfiche/microfilm and will take a flashlight to go out to the storage containers to get the hard copy. Until two years ago, FFL's could destroy any 4473's that were older than twenty years old. Federal law changed and now the FFL has to store the records until he discontinues business. If anyone thinks its anywhere close to an efficient secret database they are wholly and completely misinformed. ATF has no means to see who bought a gun today or yesterday. Thats because the dealer stores current records. All ATF has in their possession is OOB records, most decades old. |
Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Huh? I've never heard that. Its always been Martinsburg, WV. to the National Tracing Center or your local ATF office. Discontinue Being a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) This. I had to send my A&D and 4473's back to Martinsburg, WV or I could have drove them to my local ATF Field Office. |
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Originally Posted By jos51700: A friend of mine had been an ffl since 1970. They took EVERYTHING Originally Posted By jos51700: A friend of mine had been an ffl since 1970. They took EVERYTHING No, they don't. They don't want, nor does federal law allow them to take anything other than the records required by law. Meaning customer invoices, sales tax documents, credit card receipts, misc business records, bank statements etc are outside their jurisdiction. If only Whiplash_83 had posted this in post #2 above: What records are licensees required to forward to ATF when discontinuing their business? Firearms licensees who are going out of business need to forward the following records to ATF: Acquisition and disposition (A&D) records ATF Forms 4473 ATF Forms 3310.4 (Report of Multiple Sale or Other Disposition of Pistols and Revolvers) ATF Forms 3310.11 (Federal Firearms Licensee Theft/Loss Report) Records of importation (ATF Forms 6 and 6A) Law enforcement certification letters [18 U.S.C. 923(g)(4); 27 CFR 478.127] Thats it. |
Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
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Originally Posted By Jodan1776: I have no evidence to support it, but I always figured all that data was immediately entered into a database. Otherwise, what good it is it for searches, the supposed reason for sending it in? Perhaps, as someone posted, I'm giving the government way too much credit for competence. I hope so. It sits in a cargo container until they can digitize it I hope they all leak LOL. |
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