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Posted: 2/6/2007 7:57:16 PM EDT
| When looking at the different websites where Class III firearms are listed, sometimes I see firearms marked post-samples that are considerably cheaper then their non-post-sample counterparts. Is a post-sample a firearm that has been fired alot aka "used" and thats why it is so cheap? |
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A post-sample is a machine gun which was manufactured after May 19, 1986. For a dealer to buy it, he must first get a demonstration request from a law enforcement agency, written on agency letterhead and signed by the CLEO, asking for a demo of that exact model of MG. When the dealer decides to go out of business or let his SOT expire, he must dispose of all post-samples beforehand by selling or destroying them. Basically, a post-sample is a "rented" MG, rather than one you can buy and own forever. |
| I think I understand. Since a "Post-Sample" is manufactured after 1986, it will only be available for purchase by Govt Agencies or LEO's right? There was a thread in GD a while back about a guy who claimed to have purchased a gatling gun for 56000. I knew it was BS, but when I read some of the replies someone said it could have been a post sample, so thats what got me wondering. Thank you all for your replies. |
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There are three "MAIN" catagories of MG's (Not counting newly manufactured ones, and not counting L.E. and Mil.). 1. Transferables - Any individual can own if (a)They can legally own a firearm, (b) State they live in allows it/can get CLEO signoff, (c) They can afford it. 2. Pre 1986 Dealer Samples - Dealers only can possess/own. When dealer "retires" (stops being a dealer), They can transfer to themselves and own.. i.e. a "keeper". 3. Post 1986 Dealer Samples - Dealers only can possess, only with a "demonstration letter". This is a formal request, from an L.E. or Mil. agency, with proper letterhead and signatures, asking for a demonstration of a specific firearm. When dealer gives up his license/retires, he MUST sell off/get rid of all post samples. They are not "keepers". Did I miss anythig in my synopsis? HKO |
One correction regarding pre-'86 dealer samples ("keepers"): A dealer cannot "transfer" one to themselves, whether active or retired. Instead, the legal entity which holds the FFL/SOT can keep retain ownership without any new transfer. If the FFL/SOT is in the name of an individual who retires, he just keeps them with no new additional paperwork. They cannot be inherited when he dies, however, unless his heirs hold a current FFL/SOT. And if the retired dealer decides to sell his pre-'86 dealer samples, they must be sold to a current FFL/SOT -- and via a $200-tax Form 4, since the retired dealer no longer has an SOT. If the FFL/SOT is in the name of an LLC or corporation which goes out of the firearms biz, the LLC/corp can retain them as long as remains a viable legal entity. If the LLC or corp is dissolved, the pre-'86 samples must be sold to the holder of a current FFL/SOT; they cannot be retained by unlicensed LLC/corp officers. BTW, the retired-dealers-must-sell-presamples-via-Form4s is how presamples often get mistaken for transferables. A dealer who keeps MGs for years may forget a particular MG's status, and assume that if it came to him on a Form 4, it must be transferable. Only when he sells it to a civilian and BATF rejects the transfer does he find out the true status. HTH. |
I appreciate the additional information (and clarification), since I did ask for a review.  I was trying to be brief regarding the differences in pre, post, and transferables. MALTOSE: DO NOT TRY to understand the reasoning regarding the LEGAL differences between the three. Better men than I have tried, and gone insane.  HKO |
Yeah, I figured you were trying to keep it simple, but I couldn't resist....  As far as the legal differences, IMHO they are pretty straightfoward: --In 1934, the National Firearms Act first required registration of all machine guns. --In 1968, the Gun Control Act banned importation of MGs for civilian ownership. So after that date, brand new U.S.-manufactured MGs were still transferable, but new imported ones were limited to LE/mil and dealer samples. --In 1986, the Gun Owners Protection Act banned all manufacture of new MGs for civilian ownership; added the LE demo-request letter requirement for dealers; and required that post-1986 MGs only be possessed by holders of valid SOTs. So first everything manufactured was transferable; then after '68, only domestic MGs; and finally, the 1986 law added additional dealer-sample restrictions but grandfathered in the earlier dealer samples, creating the two dealer-sample categories (pre-'86 and post-'86). Wish I had a "way-back machine." Of course, this is only clear to me because I am already insane.... 
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What'd I say??! There ya go....  I follow the legalities, but could you have, for example, three identical AK-47's on a table. #1 is a pre-'68 Vietnam War bringback, Amnesty registered (transferable), #2 is a post-'68 import (pre-sample), and #3 is a post-'86 import (post-sample)? Three identical guns, three laws. I guess insanity would help.... Or did I miss something? HKO |
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