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Posted: 11/22/2011 5:39:22 PM EDT
I've seen a few folks knocking DSA's SA58 rifles and glorifying older FALs, heck even Century monkey builds. So what is the proof behind the trash talk? I'd really like to know the truth and not the bullshit. I have a NIB SA58 16" never shot but the way some talk it's like a grenade waiting to go off at the first shot. 
ETA: I'm speaking of the all DSA made rifles, not rifles built from kits or surplus. Here is a link to mine: http://www.dsarms.com/SA58-FAL-Carbine-Rifle-308-Cal––––SA58C16/productinfo/SA58C16/ |
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The so called DSA bashing seemed to start when their last run of "STG58" were not made from what many would consider complete kits. When they started coming with after market barrels vs. the sought after hammer forged original barrels, buyers cried foul. People seemed to like the value of their kit builds and the SA58 just have too many after market parts to the purist. To know suprise those CAI rifles should still have that original parts that matter, like the barrel. If you find a CAI made right, you got a real deal at a steal of a price. Granted you got lucky. People then cleaned out the DSA Imbel kit built FALs and the SA58 still left something to be desired. Again, it seems to come back to the barrels that peeps are scrambling after. I base that on the gripes I read over on the falfiles and there may be more reasons out there.
By the way, why would some tell you it a grenade ready to go off? It is because it is a carbine .308 and that (with a brake) is loud, big blast and kicks like a mule? |
| Another that I've been hearing on the Files and such is the receiver quality is starting to go down hill. As in people are running into build problems that were never present on earlier receivers, like barrel's not timing correctly. Also, their customer service leaves a lot to be desired and it has for a few years since I've been dealing with them. Although when I ordered a Type 2 receiver during the current sale the person I talked to went above and beyond to make sure that I got what I wanted. |
| For what its worth, my Imbel FAL runs like a champ. If I ever had issues, I know DSA will stand behind fixing it (if it is something I can not do) vs. going to the nightmare so called warranty CAI offers on their stuff that many have commented on. Doesn't CAI give you like 2 year warranty from the time it is made and matters not if it had been sitting on the shelf for years? |
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I own 3 DSA FAL's and they're all first rate. Tell me more! 
Mine is the 16" barrel with the full length gas system. Very well built and the finish is perfect. The action is smooth as well. I'm hoping to run it soon but holidays and work have me in a lurch.  I can't even shoot my new FS2000 yet.  
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I like my DSA FAL. The only problem I've ever had is with their customer service when I needed something. yep The "problem" is not so much the product, but how management handles customer service issues. This is the reason I no longer do business with them. |
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yep The "problem" is not so much the product, but how management handles customer service issues. This is the reason I no longer do business with them. Really? Every time I contacted them, they were easy to deal with and down to earth. I've had gunsmith work done down to needing a replacement of a scope mount lock plate. No gripes here. They have sent me replacement parts on their dime. It may be just who got on the phone. Well if you won't do business with them, their is plenty of CAI business looking for for ya! |
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DSA issues go beyond customer service. The quality is still good, but no longer great.
Examples: Cast lock levers Cast selectors Non chrome plated gas plugs Humper stocks don't accept buttpad without modding Brittle para recoil spring rods Soft lower receivers Receivers that take very small LS Binding carriers Inconsistent hand guard quality Defective magazines Everything above is all in regard to their US made parts. It's hard to beat or equal contract parts. If anyone expects DSA to supply contract parts quality then they should also expect a huge price increase. |
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I have a matching Stg58 that I built out of a stg58 matching kit, and a DSA type 2 receiver. Mine took a .252 locking shoulder and that is very small comparied to what DSA used to turn out. Now the last batches are going even smaller than that and guys are having to have small locking shoulders made for them. No surplus ones will fit.
The surplus sizes run .270 - .257 the new DSA receivers now are taking low .250's to high .240's. That is one problem for builders. |
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I have a matching Stg58 that I built out of a stg58 matching kit, and a DSA type 2 receiver. Mine took a .252 locking shoulder and that is very small comparied to what DSA used to turn out. Now the last batches are going even smaller than that and guys are having to have small locking shoulders made for them. No surplus ones will fit. The surplus sizes run .270 - .257 the new DSA receivers now are taking low .250's to high .240's. That is one problem for builders. I can understand the headaches presented in builds from surplus kits, however my question was directed towards the DSA SA58s made exclusively with all DSA parts. No surplus parts or DSA built rifles from kits. Strickly the brand new all DSA made units. Link to the one in question: http://www.dsarms.com/SA58-FAL-Carbine-Rifle-308-Cal––––SA58C16/productinfo/SA58C16/ |
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DSA issues go beyond customer service. The quality is still good, but no longer great. Examples: Cast lock levers Mine appears not to be Cast selectors Seems OK Non chrome plated gas plugs Mine is chrome plated Humper stocks don't accept buttpad without modding Don't have the "hump" non issue to me Brittle para recoil spring rods Mine is not a Para, non issue to me Soft lower receivers Mine seems just as good as a Colt AR receiver Receivers that take very small LS Being a non surplus build makes this non issue to me Binding carriers My carrier is smooth as glass even with the railed dust cover installed Inconsistent hand guard quality My HG is just fine Defective magazines I will have to check that but all my DSA mags fit fine and hand cycle rounds with no issues. Live fire TBA. Everything above is all in regard to their US made parts. It's hard to beat or equal contract parts. If anyone expects DSA to supply contract parts quality then they should also expect a huge price increase. |
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I have never had any issues with DSA customer service. Had a part break on me after 3 shots. Called them up to complain. As soon as I told them what the part was, guy said they would send a replacement at no charge. He said they had a "bad" shipment of these parts that were not made to spec-heat treatment issue. I got the package the next week. It had the replacement part. The guy also sent me some other extra parts for my trouble which was nice. Every time I had to order or return parts, the lady was nice and helpful.
This was at least 2 years ago now so maybe something has changed. They were never helpful with estimating back order times and stuff like that but friendly enough. |
| Well, as chance would have it, my SA58 is among the ones recalled for a bad batch of lowers. Heat treating may not have been up to spec, so DSA is sending me a box to send the rifle back for inspection. Should be a two week turn around. During the phone call, the DSA rep was very nice and said several times he was sorry for the hassle. I am guessing my frustration shown through in my tone of voice after he checked my serial number. Still, he and the other rep were professional and nice. According to what he said, they have had less than a hundred of these in the last year and all were taken care of promptly. Maybe that is what was meant above above "soft" lowers. Oh well. We shall see how this goes. So far, so good on the customer service. |
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Well, as chance would have it, my SA58 is among the ones recalled for a bad batch of lowers. Heat treating may not have been up to spec, so DSA is sending me a box to send the rifle back for inspection. Should be a two week turn around. During the phone call, the DSA rep was very nice and said several times he was sorry for the hassle. I am guessing my frustration shown through in my tone of voice after he checked my serial number. Still, he and the other rep were professional and nice. According to what he said, they have had less than a hundred of these in the last year and all were taken care of promptly. Maybe that is what was meant above above "soft" lowers. Oh well. We shall see how this goes. So far, so good on the customer service. Yes. Strange you have a chrome plated gas plug. SA58's don't come with them. |
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Well, as chance would have it, my SA58 is among the ones recalled for a bad batch of lowers. Heat treating may not have been up to spec, so DSA is sending me a box to send the rifle back for inspection. Should be a two week turn around. During the phone call, the DSA rep was very nice and said several times he was sorry for the hassle. I am guessing my frustration shown through in my tone of voice after he checked my serial number. Still, he and the other rep were professional and nice. According to what he said, they have had less than a hundred of these in the last year and all were taken care of promptly. Maybe that is what was meant above above "soft" lowers. Oh well. We shall see how this goes. So far, so good on the customer service. Yes. Strange you have a chrome plated gas plug. SA58's don't come with them. I double checked and it is in fact Chrome. I will snap a pic before I send it out. I'm not happy with sending it back but DSA so far has been good to deal with. Anyone know how long the box takes to get here? |
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Sounds like you answered your own original question, OP. IMHO, they lost focus on their core product when they started building ARs. The magazine fiasco didn't help their reputation either. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I can understand a bad batch of lowers as long as they make it right. So far DSA has been good about it with no $$ out of my pocket as should be. I'm just waiting for the return box now. |
| Well I just got my new receivers from their sale and they still have the same problems that others are reporting. The barrel under-timed by a good margin so I had to turn the shoulder and breech face since the barrel was hitting the inside of the receiver before being fully torqued down. Once that was done I found that I would need a 0.248 locking shoulder to headspace it. So I'll have to have one custom made or cut down a surplus one. All in all though, still a quality receiver. |
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This is the kind of thing that keeps them from being a top knotch outfit. They have a problem with the locking shoulder thing lately and what they should do is offer to cut your shoulder free or sell you one at a reduced price. Instead they ignore the problem and charge you $50 to cut the custom ls you need because of their fu.
As far as barrel timing, the 11:00 mark is hard to hit with all the barrels out there. I'd rather skim the shoulder and have it right than put in a timing shim. It's no harder to remove .0010 than it is to remove .0005. jm2c |
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This is the kind of thing that keeps them from being a top knotch outfit. They have a problem with the locking shoulder thing lately and what they should do is offer to cut your shoulder free or sell you one at a reduced price. Instead they ignore the problem and charge you $50 to cut the custom ls you need because of their fu. As far as barrel timing, the 11:00 mark is hard to hit with all the barrels out there. I'd rather skim the shoulder and have it right than put in a timing shim. It's no harder to remove .0010 than it is to remove .0005. jm2c That's true about turning the shoulder since I'd rather do that than use a timing washer any day of the week. But it's funny since DSA still advertises their receivers as: Proper timing on barrel thread (to blueprint). No need for filing, milling or lathe turning of new or used barrels.
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Is there a way to tell if my lower receiver needs to be replaced? I'm not 100% in love with sending my SA58 back only for them to tell me it's OK. Still waiting for the return packaging. Unfortunately no. Not unless someone does a hardness test on one of their DSA lowers and then you do the same to see what readings you get. |
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Well, as chance would have it, my SA58 is among the ones recalled for a bad batch of lowers. Heat treating may not have been up to spec, so DSA is sending me a box to send the rifle back for inspection. Should be a two week turn around. During the phone call, the DSA rep was very nice and said several times he was sorry for the hassle. I am guessing my frustration shown through in my tone of voice after he checked my serial number. Still, he and the other rep were professional and nice. According to what he said, they have had less than a hundred of these in the last year and all were taken care of promptly. Maybe that is what was meant above above "soft" lowers. Oh well. We shall see how this goes. So far, so good on the customer service. Yes. Strange you have a chrome plated gas plug. SA58's don't come with them. My SA58 16" has a factory chrome plated gas plug. Mine is '99 vintage. It's dissapointing to hear about their quality slipping. At the time I bought mine, it was really the only battle rifle built to an HK9X level of quality. I have put many thousands of rounds through mine. I've found that they do need significant "break in" though. I ended up buying the Para kit for it, and that new bolt carrier needed to be broken in as well. |
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Well, as chance would have it, my SA58 is among the ones recalled for a bad batch of lowers. Heat treating may not have been up to spec, so DSA is sending me a box to send the rifle back for inspection. Should be a two week turn around. During the phone call, the DSA rep was very nice and said several times he was sorry for the hassle. I am guessing my frustration shown through in my tone of voice after he checked my serial number. Still, he and the other rep were professional and nice. According to what he said, they have had less than a hundred of these in the last year and all were taken care of promptly. Maybe that is what was meant above above "soft" lowers. Oh well. We shall see how this goes. So far, so good on the customer service. Yes. Strange you have a chrome plated gas plug. SA58's don't come with them. I double checked and it is in fact Chrome. I will snap a pic before I send it out. I'm not happy with sending it back but DSA so far has been good to deal with. Anyone know how long the box takes to get here? It took about a week for me to get the box and then two weeks total from the day I dropped it at UPS to getting it back. |
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I like my DSA FAL. The only problem I've ever had is with their customer service when I needed something. yep The "problem" is not so much the product, but how management handles customer service issues. This is the reason I no longer do business with them. I didn't have a problem with them. I've only called them once. When I bought my SA58 the FFL told me DSA had a promo that expired two weeks before. It was for a cheap nylon ammo bag, and three or four magazines. I called them, told them I just bought my rifle, and asked about the promo. The woman told me, don't worry, we will send you one right away. A few days later, it was at my house. So, for me their CS was great. I have also had ZERO problems with my DSA. 
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I'm still not keen on sending my whole rifle back to them. I'm thinking I should just call them and order a stripped lower that is know to have no defects and swap the parts myself. Yeah it's $$ out of my pocket but at least I would avoid some of the rumors I hear about them messing with other parts of the rifle while there. Plus, why should I be inconveienced by sending the whole rifle back? They could send me a new lower and return package for the old defective one. My point it, I could at least be using the upper on my Imbel lower (from a CAI kit build I picked up) while I wait.
ETA: There is a thread here on someone sending their FAL in for the same thing only to get a purple lower. It's cosmetic I know but still. Eh, maybe I'm being to "tin foil" about all this. |
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I'm still not keen on sending my whole rifle back to them. I'm thinking I should just call them and order a stripped lower that is know to have no defects and swap the parts myself. Yeah it's $$ out of my pocket but at least I would avoid some of the rumors I hear about them messing with other parts of the rifle while there. Plus, why should I be inconveienced by sending the whole rifle back? They could send me a new lower and return package for the old defective one. My point it, I could at least be using the upper on my Imbel lower (from a CAI kit build I picked up) while I wait. ETA: There is a thread here on someone sending their FAL in for the same thing only to get a purple lower. It's cosmetic I know but still. Eh, maybe I'm being to "tin foil" about all this. You are being tin foil about this. It's just the lower. You can pick those up pretty cheap anywhere. Go shoot the snot out of the thing, if it's soft, the issue will present itself. Get it fixed then. I've got two DSA lowers and I'm not worried about it. If something goes TU, I'll send it back for a replacement. There's no reason to send back the entire rifle. Especially if it's a brand new rifle with no known issues. |
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Well I just got my new receivers from their sale and they still have the same problems that others are reporting. The barrel under-timed by a good margin so I had to turn the shoulder and breech face since the barrel was hitting the inside of the receiver before being fully torqued down. Once that was done I found that I would need a 0.248 locking shoulder to headspace it. So I'll have to have one custom made or cut down a surplus one. All in all though, still a quality receiver. Gee, I thought my 252 was small. They are not making consistent receivers, or the locking shoulder would not keep getting smaller and smaller.......
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Well I just got my new receivers from their sale and they still have the same problems that others are reporting. The barrel under-timed by a good margin so I had to turn the shoulder and breech face since the barrel was hitting the inside of the receiver before being fully torqued down. Once that was done I found that I would need a 0.248 locking shoulder to headspace it. So I'll have to have one custom made or cut down a surplus one. All in all though, still a quality receiver. Gee, I thought my 252 was small. They are not making consistent receivers, or the locking shoulder would not keep getting smaller and smaller....... Could it be that DSA still has a large number of surplus locking shoulders in the smallest standard sizes? Rather than making new locking shoulders they can just grind the ones they already have to the needed sizes. I'm just guessing, a small adjustment to the CNC program, to locate the locking shoulder hole a few thou further forward, would make this possible. |
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Well I just got my new receivers from their sale and they still have the same problems that others are reporting. The barrel under-timed by a good margin so I had to turn the shoulder and breech face since the barrel was hitting the inside of the receiver before being fully torqued down. Once that was done I found that I would need a 0.248 locking shoulder to headspace it. So I'll have to have one custom made or cut down a surplus one. All in all though, still a quality receiver. Gee, I thought my 252 was small. They are not making consistent receivers, or the locking shoulder would not keep getting smaller and smaller....... My last two builds needed .250 and .249 locking shoulders. Both barrels hand timed to 9 o'clock....Appears to me that LMT is no longer machining their receivers
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Still waiting for the return box they said I would get by the end of the week. I think I'm just going to shoot it as is and if a problem comes up, I will raise hell with DSA and demand they send a new lower. They can be burdened since it's their fuck up. They hired the subcontractor to harden their lowers so the responsibility falls on them, not me the customer. I had a very bad experience with another gun maker when sending a gun back (three times and still the same problem). I got a full refund in the end but I refuse to go through that crap again.
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| They are asking you to send the lower in because they would rather have people whining about having to send the entire rifle back than people whining about how they sent the lower back and the lower that came back doesn't fit their upper. Sometimes these things need to have the locking lever or lower edges tweaked to ensure a proper fit, and they're trying to do you a favor by doing it for you. Talk about damned if you do and damned if you don't. |
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They are asking you to send the lower in because they would rather have people whining about having to send the entire rifle back than people whining about how they sent the lower back and the lower that came back doesn't fit their upper. Sometimes these things need to have the locking lever or lower edges tweaked to ensure a proper fit, and they're trying to do you a favor by doing it for you. Talk about damned if you do and damned if you don't. Not to mention that the serial number that proves it's subject to the recall is on the upper. |
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Quoted: Why did you mention it?Quoted: They are asking you to send the lower in because they would rather have people whining about having to send the entire rifle back than people whining about how they sent the lower back and the lower that came back doesn't fit their upper. Sometimes these things need to have the locking lever or lower edges tweaked to ensure a proper fit, and they're trying to do you a favor by doing it for you. Talk about damned if you do and damned if you don't. Not to mention that the serial number that proves it's subject to the recall is on the upper. |
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