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Posted: 6/9/2016 1:18:56 AM EDT
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I had no idea an ar platform could do this.
Just finished a build with WOA 18" 223 Wylde, 1:7 and rifle length gas, and this thing is FLAT from 100yd zero to 280 yards with BH 77gr TMK! I was popping prairie dog steel plates at 445yds WITH AN HVT SUPPRESSOR and only raising 3.5 mils on my IOR at 10x! Just .... WOW! .308 bolt action is the only platform I have experienced this performance with in the past. Did anyone else know about this? |
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Running WOA on this psycho beast and I have never owned a gun where I can shoot a 1 inch group at 100 so damn fast. I realllly need to get rid of the rails on this as it was supposed to be my night vision build and never ended up that way.... This thing can shoot!  |
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I just completed an LE Sniper course with my JP-15 (.223), launching 75gr Hornady BTHP's at 2850. I was hitting 1000 yard steel with this load. Granted, I was also holding 3.5mils worth of wind, but still not bad. I only missed a few targets throughout the entire course (3.5 days long).
I am going to compete in some PRS (local/regional) matches with this rig seeing as she did so well in this course. The only issues I will have are on those 800 yard+ targets and the dreaded swingers (where you have to shoot the steel until the plate makes a full 360 degree rotation on it's axis, tough to do with larger calibers, impossible with the .223, if I remember correctly). |
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Nice shooting. I might have to get one of their barrels for the long range AR I want to build. I wish they had 1:7 in 24".
Quoted:
Good shooting, Guys !! Always satisfying to hit targets that far away.... to those of you readers that haven't tried past 300yds... I strongly suggest you try, you will be surprised. I've done it with my 50 out to 600 and have hit the 400 yards targets with my 308. I tried longer distances with the 308 but without a spotter, it's hard to tell what kind of adjustments I need to make. I'll try longer 400+ when I have an AR again. |
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My wife shot a prairie dog at 600 yards with a Stag 24" bbl a few years ago, it was 15 to 20 mph wind so it took several shots to walk it in. Most of the shots that trip were 100 to 200 yards.
My dad used to be a crack shot with an old pump action .22 and could hit them out to 200 on the farm. |
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Quoted:
I had no idea an ar platform could do this. Just finished a build with WOA 18" 223 Wylde, 1:7 and rifle length gas, and this thing is FLAT from 100yd zero to 280 yards with BH 77gr TMK! I was popping prairie dog steel plates at 445yds WITH AN HVT SUPPRESSOR and only raising 3.5 mils on my IOR at 10x! Just .... WOW! .308 bolt action is the only platform I have experienced this performance with in the past. Did anyone else know about this? Yes. A long time ago. Way back in the day we milled the top of AR-15 receivers and installed a Weaver mount to allow lower mounting of scopes for longish range varmint hunting. (Ever wonder where the idea for the Picatinny railed AR-15s really came from?). Similarly, once heavier, higher BC bullets became available the AR-15 took over from the M14/M1A as king of the 600 yard line in service rifle competition. Why? Because the trajectory and windage was functionally identical to the 168 gr SMK load in the .308. ----- I suspect way too many shooters really don't understand the effects of velocity and BC on long range trajectory. More to the point they fail to grasp that caliber doesn't matter - just velocity and BC. For example if you take a .223 with a 75 grain A-max bullet with a BC of .435 and launch it at 2600 fps (100 fps under maximum velocity in a 20" barrel), it will have a trajectory almost identical to a .308 launching a 168 gr BTSP with a .450 BC at the same 2600 fps. For the .308 load, zeroing at 275 yards gives a 322 yard 5" point blank zero range with the bullet dropping 4.2 MOA at 400 yards, 8.1 MOA at 500 yards and 12.6 MOA at 600 yards. Windage for a 10mph full value cross wind is 5.3 MOA, 10.8 MOA, 18.6 MOA and 28.9MOA at 300, 400, 500 and 600 yards respectively. In comparison the .223 load zeroing at 275 yards gives a 321 yard 5" point blank zero range with the bullet dropping 4.1 MOA at 400 yards, 8.0 MOA at 500 yards and 12.3 MOA at 600 yards. Windage for a 10mph full value cross wind is 5.5 MOA, 11.2 MOA, 19.4 MOA and 30.2 MOA at 300, 400, 500 and 600 yards respectively. The minor difference in trajectory also illustrates the relatively minor effect of a small change in BC (in this case .435 versus .450) until the ranges get out past 500 yards. Iincrease the velocity of the .223 by 100 fps (which is readily possible in a 20" barrel and reflects a maximum load, like the .308 load above) and you've now got: a 325 yard 5" point blank zero range (with the same 275 yard zero) with the bullet dropping 3.8 MOA at 400 yards, 7.4 MOA at 500 yards and 9.4 MOA at 600 yards. Windage for a 10mph full value cross wind is now 5.2 MOA, 10.6 MOA, 18.3 MOA and 28.5 MOA at 300, 400, 500 and 600 yards respectively. That's flatter and with less windage than the .308 168 gr BTHP by a small margin. Quoted:
You definition of "flat" is making .220 Swift and .22-250 guys giggle.  Yes, they are laughing, but they also won't be shooting as many rounds in any given day, or over the shorter life of the barrel. There is no free lunch When you're putting 500 rounds done range in an afternoon in the bright sunshine on a 100 degree day in South Dakota, barrel heat really matters. Even with a .223 you'll want to bring 2 or 3 rifles to keep the barrel temps manageable. With a .22-250 or a .220 Swift, you'll be shooting any one rifle a lot less than you will a .223 - if you want to preserve the life and accuracy of the barrel. My preference was to use a .22 Hornet for the 200 yards and under shots (it's not very heat intensive and it's comparatively quiet, as well as very accurate). I'd step up to a bolt action.223 with inexpensive 55 grain ammo for medium range shoots from 200-350 yards and then to a heavy barrel AR-15 in .223 with more expensive 75 or 77 grain bullets for the longer shots, or alternatively a .308 with 168 gr bullets. The advantage of the .223 at longer range was that ability to spot your own rounds with a larger scope, due to the lower recoil, and the semi-auto nature of the AR-15 allowed for a faster follow up shot as soon as the target stuck its head back up for a look. ---- Let's also look at a traditional .220 swift load using a 60 gr HP bullet with a BC of .271 at 3600 fps. With a 350 yard zero you'll have a 400 yard 5" point blank zero range with the bullet dropping 3.8 MOA at 500 yards and 6.9 MOA at 600 yards. That's wonderfully flat and looks like a really good deal. Except I have laser range finder and I'm shooting over a dog town where i can set up a range card to quickly and accurately dial in the range, so flatter does;t really matter as much as you'd think. And unfortunately, windage for a 10mph full value cross wind is now 6.0 MOA, 12.4 MOA, 21.9 MOA and 34.9 MOA at 300, 400, 500 and 600 yards respectively - worse than either the .223 or .308. That's because an extras 1000 fps of velocity is great fro trajectory, but it's still the BC that rules the roost when it comes to windage. That's why most long range loads are using heavy bullets with lower velocities but higher BCs. The .22-250 is a much better choice as it's more efficient case isn't quite as hard on barrels and shoots heavier bullets a bit better. Here the same 75 gr A-max we used in the .223 can be shot at 3300 fps giving us: the same 400 yard point blank range with the same 340 yard zero as the 220 Swift, with the bullet dropping 3.5 MOA at 500 yards, and 6.1 MOA at 600 yards. Windage for a 10mph full value cross wind is now 3.9 MOA, 7.9 MOA, 13.5 MOA and 21.0 MOA at 300, 400, 500 and 600 yards respectively. So in summary, it might be just the .22-250 guys giggling, while the .220 Swift guys are probably seriously considering a .22-250 or even a .223. |
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