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Posted: 3/5/2010 10:53:07 AM EDT
OK no cool aid drinkers just please only honest assessments of the XCR, how many of you XCR owners have or had a problem with trigger slap!?  My XCR is in the 900 serial # range so maybe mine does not have the latest trigger Mod but I am not happy at all with a sore trigger finger after only 160-200 rounds down the pipe. At the end of the shoot yesterday my index finger was numb, and today it is down right sore!  So I would like to hear from some other actual XCR owners about this phenomena/problem and what Robinson did for you. My friend bought one "an XCR" the same time I did and he has no problems "I guess he got luck on the QC that day and I did not". I already have sent my gun back because I upgraded my gun to the quick adj. gas system which I understand all XCR's have now and Terra did a trigger job on it as well as replace the faulty gas block. Just for the record my XCR ran with only 3 or 4 malfunctions yesterday but it is still in the break in period that all new XCRs go through. Is it true that there is a new and improved trigger system out for the XCR to correct problems with failure to reset and trigger slap issues as well as a new lower reciever design? Please let me know ASAP! And yes, I have already contacted Robinson and I am waiting patiently to hear from Terra/repair dept. up in Utah . Hopefully they will just replace the whole gun this time or maybe the whole lower assembly instead of me shipping the gun yet again for more repair work. I really want to love this gun but it just seems to be getting harder each time I take it out, "that would be only 2 times so far.......... I will keep you guys posted on what Robinson/Terra do for me about my XCR woes. Hey guys just FYI, this is not a XCR bash thread so please do not respond if you have nothing constructive to contribute!
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Thanks lew, anyone else? BTW, I don't think that the trigger slap is that evident to someone who just puts 5 or 15 rounds down range. What I am looking for are guys who have shot their XCR's a few hundred rounds at a time, although my brother in law noticed the slap after only one 30 round mag.
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Have you turned the gas down? Mine had some slap on setting 4 with the ammo I have put through it I turned it down and it went away. It even says this in the manual.
I had questions about mine and called robinson arms. I mentioned to the guy that mine had some trigger slap but I turned it down and it was gone. I said maybe I shouldn't have because the official break in procedure says to leave it at 4. He said to me that Robinson Arms is continually improving their quality and that most guns really don't need a break in. I have only put 170rds through mine so far. It has ran 100% with settings 4, 3, 2, and even setting 1. This was with .223 powered loads (not 5.56). BTW WTF IS WITH YOUR FONT SIZE? CAN YOU READ THIS MOFO  ?
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I am on gas setting 4 as 3 will not cycle my 55gr. Wolf ammo, "Yes I tried different settings and no they would not cycle". I only have 100 more rounds to go on break in before I can even consider a setting of 3 or lower......... Thanks for the responses guys and thanks for posting in a larger font Ds3, it's easier to read on my lap top smart ass. Oh yeah your post was helpful too.....
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Never experienced trigger slap with the original trigger, but all of mine now have the new trigger. If you don't have the new trigger, it is worth the money. The old trigger can work pretty good. I put some polishing paste on the contacts and dry fired repeatedly adding paste every so often. After about 30 minutes of dry fire I cleaned everything and oiled it and it worked well.
How far is your gun throwing brass? Dialing down the gas should help as well as the others have said. Either way, trust Terra to make it right. |
Gas is at 4 and it throws the brass 20+ feet "it is in break in" but I still dialed it down to 3 just to see and...................... Brass ejected only 5' but the gun stove-piped so I put it back on 4 as directed. I shot close to 200 rounds yesterday and ran out of light, good thing for my trigger finger. I hope that dialing down the gas is the answer but I really hope my XCR will function with Wolf 55 gr. on a lower setting after break in. I hope I don't have to BUY a new trigger to make my XCR right!  Thanks again to my XCR brothers for possible solutions!
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Shouldn't be a problem with running wolf 55 grain. Mine will do 300 rounds on setting 1 and all want after that on setting 2. Mine is well broken in, however.
If you're getting 20 + feet on setting 4 and only 5 foot on setting 3, I would try cleaning it and lubing it a little wet and see how it does on 3. I'd also check to see if the hammer surface that the bolt rides over is lubed as well as the bottom of the bolt. This might help with the slap some. |
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Gas is at 4 and it throws the brass 20+ feet "it is in break in" but I still dialed it down to 3 just to see and...................... Brass ejected only 5' but the gun stove-piped so I put it back on 4 as directed. I shot close to 200 rounds yesterday and ran out of light, good thing for my trigger finger. I hope that dialing down the gas is the answer but I really hope my XCR will function with Wolf 55 gr. on a lower setting after break in. I hope I don't have to BUY a new trigger to make my XCR right! Thanks again to my XCR brothers for possible solutions!You are supposed to break the rifle in with high powered 5.56 ammo, not wolf. I have the same problem as you (and mine are broken in).....wolf will not run on anything but setting 4 but the recoil is really soft anyway, so it's not beating up my buffers. The trigger slap was an issue with one of my rifles (original stnd triggers) even after Bill Springfield did his trigger jobs on them. I've since upgraded to the new RA "enhanced" trigger....which is much, much better than even the BS trigger job. HTH, Sean |
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No trouble with trigger slap in two XCR's that I have. The first one lasted 500 or so rounds before I had Bill Springfield do a much-needed trigger job. The second got the new trigger when it came out.
M4-daddy, if you want, I could send you the trigger that came in my 2nd XCR to see if your slap will go away. I never fired it with that trigger, so not certain it won't do the same thing. The new factory trigger is a major improvement. If they do replace your lower, you will need to go through an FFL, as it will be a "new" firearm, not the one you sent in. |
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Wow thanks for the offer bolster, but Terra at Robinson did a trigger job on mine "it's now a single stage and pretty nice, thanks Terra" when I sent mine in because of the bad gas block. If the gas setting change does not cure the slap I will insist on the new trigger for Robinson or sell the gun to someone who either shoots with gloves or does not mind sending a new gun back and forth to Utah every time he shoots the gun. Man I hope this works out, I have high hopes 4 this gun and was looking at getting a Micro pistol if all works out and then maybe a mini and NFA it with the old form 1 magic.......
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Wow thanks for the offer bolster, but Terra at Robinson did a trigger job on mine "it's now a single stage and pretty nice, thanks Terra" when I sent mine in because of the bad gas block. If the gas setting change does not cure the slap I will insist on the new trigger for Robinson or sell the gun to someone who either shoots with gloves or does not mind sending a new gun back and forth to Utah every time he shoots the gun. Man I hope this works out, I have high hopes 4 this gun and was looking at getting a Micro pistol if all works out and then maybe a mini and NFA it with the old form 1 magic.......No problem. I have no use for the old trigger anyway. |
Thanks again guys for all of the help, as for the a Wolf ammo break in issue it's what I got and it runs everything else I own just fine. If and when Robinson contacts me and their answer is to SELL me a solution/trigger that should not be a problem in the first place, well then there will be a problem. I once had a Problem with an MSAR STG 556 and MSAR went way out of their way to make it right and they sure as hell did offer to sell me the fix! All I ask is that Robinson make my new gun right, if there was a design flaw with the first run they need to make it right not charge the customer for their mistake. The real shame is I took it for granted that the gun was right, other wise I would have shot it immediately upon receipt or not purchased at all.
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Thanks again guys for all of the help, as for the a Wolf ammo break in issue it's what I got and it runs everything else I own just fine. If and when Robinson contacts me and their answer is to SELL me a solution/trigger that should not be a problem in the first place, well then there will be a problem. I once had a Problem with an MSAR STG 556 and MSAR went way out of their way to make it right and they sure as hell did offer to sell me the fix! All I ask is that Robinson make my new gun right, if there was a design flaw with the first run they need to make it right not charge the customer for their mistake. The real shame is I took it for granted that the gun was right, other wise I would have shot it immediately upon receipt or not purchased at all.Your gun is not "new"....you bought it used and the gun is in the serial number range of 900. I was one of the first adopters of LWRC's piston rifles....back when they were Leitner-Wise. Have I contacted them b/c they now offer hammer forged bbls, one piece carriers, and NiCorr finish on everything? No. Why? B/c if I want those upgrades and evolutions of the product, I understand I have to pay for them....regardless of my lifetime (yes, it was lifetime for folks that got in on the bottom floor) warranty. Nothing is broken so I haven't had to use it. Your trigger is not broken....it has trigger slap....so do a lot of AKs. If you don't like your trigger slap....then YOU have to take responsibility for the fact that you CHOSE to buy an older model. If you bought a new one today from RA or one of their regular vendors, you'd get all the upgrades. Another option would include sending it off to Bill Springfield, but if Terra already did a 'trigger job' for you....it's probably like my 2nd XCR that still had some minor slap after Bill worked on it. This is like saying....I have a Ford truck I bought in 2007....but I want the 2010 upgrades for free. Further, you say you only have wolf to run in the gun.....but the mfg recommends you break it in (for good reason) with the higher powered ammo. I'd at least try what the mfg recommends (FOR THE BREAK IN PERIOD) before sending it in. I agree....it should (and does) shoot wolf; just maybe not on the setting you think it should. Sean |
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Thanks again guys for all of the help, as for the a Wolf ammo break in issue it's what I got and it runs everything else I own just fine. If and when Robinson contacts me and their answer is to SELL me a solution/trigger that should not be a problem in the first place, well then there will be a problem. I once had a Problem with an MSAR STG 556 and MSAR went way out of their way to make it right and they sure as hell did offer to sell me the fix! All I ask is that Robinson make my new gun right, if there was a design flaw with the first run they need to make it right not charge the customer for their mistake. The real shame is I took it for granted that the gun was right, other wise I would have shot it immediately upon receipt or not purchased at all.Your gun is not "new"....you bought it used and the gun is in the serial number range of 900. I was one of the first adopters of LWRC's piston rifles....back when they were Leitner-Wise. Have I contacted them b/c they now offer hammer forged bbls, one piece carriers, and NiCorr finish on everything? No. Why? B/c if I want those upgrades and evolutions of the product, I understand I have to pay for them....regardless of my lifetime (yes, it was lifetime for folks that got in on the bottom floor) warranty. Nothing is broken so I haven't had to use it. Your trigger is not broken....it has trigger slap....so do a lot of AKs. If you don't like your trigger slap....then YOU have to take responsibility for the fact that you CHOSE to buy an older model. If you bought a new one today from RA or one of their regular vendors, you'd get all the upgrades. Another option would include sending it off to Bill Springfield, but if Terra already did a 'trigger job' for you....it's probably like my 2nd XCR that still had some minor slap after Bill worked on it. This is like saying....I have a Ford truck I bought in 2007....but I want the 2010 upgrades for free. Further, you say you only have wolf to run in the gun.....but the mfg recommends you break it in (for good reason) with the higher powered ammo. I'd at least try what the mfg recommends (FOR THE BREAK IN PERIOD) before sending it in. I agree....it should (and does) shoot wolf; just maybe not on the setting you think it should. Sean WOW Sean where do I start.... None of my AK's have trigger slap, not one! As for the XCR............ OK let s see I bought the gun brand spankin new about 2- 3 years ago along with a friend who said he was down for one if I was. I got the gun direct through my other friend who has an FFL, they came straight from Robinson to Glen "FFL" too me and my bud Ray brand new. Mine went into the vault along with the other vault queens and my buds went to the range and preformed beautifully and the Banned-of-Brothers Machine Gun-Shoot. I personally shot rays gun and helped "LOL" with the 300 round break in which BTW was flawless. I had no reason to think my gun would preform any different. Fast forward a few months and your truly crashed the FAL-Files shoot down at Mickeys "a great bunch of guys" where my XCR ran about 14 rounds, all single shot. I called Robinson and spoke to a knowledgeable young man who's name eludes me but he assured me that the XCR would run anything and his suggestion was to try the new quick adjustable gas system for the low price of just $125, my friend passed as his gun was fine as-is and he was not going to Fuck with it! I installed the new gas system on my gun and promptly tossed it into the vault for the next few months thinking my problems where solved. I took my gun out the second time "probably 8 months has passed from date of purchase" and again I have the coolest single shot on the block. I call Robinson again and had the great pleasure to speak with Terra who said she would get my gun running right! She told me to send just the upper but at my insistence I sent the whole gun because the damn trigger was slapping the piss out of my index finger Terra told me she would work her magic on the lower/trigger as well. Around three weeks from the time I sent the gun in I got it back, "not bad I thought" with a phone call from Terra explaining that there was a bad batch of gas blocks and I got one of them "lucky me"! The call went on and Terra explain that she had changed my trigger to single stage and she had personally run 2 mags of Wolf and all problems seemed cured, have a nice day. Once again the gun went into the vault perfect and ready.............. Then I got a call that my father had been struck and killed by a motor vehicle in June of 08, needless to say things changed dramatically for me. The day after I buried my father my brother and I got served with legal paper and it was on again off again to court until 4 months ago. I went shooting a grand total of 3 times in the last 1-1/2 years, the XCR did not make any of those trips until now. So now I an sitting on a 2-3 year old "new" gun that runs on setting 4 with Wolf ammo like I wanted, but beats my finger numb every time I pull the trigger. I called Robinson and left a message with Terra and I did what anyone else would do with Internet access with a gun problem, I came straight to AR15.com! Since I went shooting dormant for over a year there have apparently been some improvements in the XCR in both the trigger and the receiver. I would now very much like to get my $1600 gun up and running as it has not run right from day one and I'm just a tad disappointed with my XCR. Yes it has been a long time coming but some things take president over shooting, and now that one of the roughest patches of my life is over I would love to get back to some of the things that bring me joy, shooting "and hopefully my XCR!" No I have not devoted my life to following the evolution of the XCR but I sure hope to get caught up and get my rifle to current specs with out dropping another $200 or so into it! Once again thank you to all who posted "to help" and bolster in particular, the kindness that some show on this board never ceases to amaze me. P.S. The short version is I'm just going to gut out the last 100 rounds "with a shooting glove" and see what happens at lower gas settings when time permits unless I hear different from Robinson. Finally, can someone here tell me what is the difference with the "enhanced trigger" vs. the original trigger , and do you need the latest receiver up-grade to fit it in the rifle? 
One more thing, I'll be damned if I buy a Bushmaster ACR at rape prices.
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| The newest receiver is only slightly different. It has a built-in trigger guard and that's about it. The FCG and other LPK parts all go in the same places, so no need to worry about the new trigger fitting or not. It's a better trigger all-around. The original one works, but was heavy, and not conducive to good accuracy. |
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Thanks again guys for all of the help, as for the a Wolf ammo break in issue it's what I got and it runs everything else I own just fine. If and when Robinson contacts me and their answer is to SELL me a solution/trigger that should not be a problem in the first place, well then there will be a problem. I once had a Problem with an MSAR STG 556 and MSAR went way out of their way to make it right and they sure as hell did offer to sell me the fix! All I ask is that Robinson make my new gun right, if there was a design flaw with the first run they need to make it right not charge the customer for their mistake. The real shame is I took it for granted that the gun was right, other wise I would have shot it immediately upon receipt or not purchased at all.Your gun is not "new"....you bought it used and the gun is in the serial number range of 900. I was one of the first adopters of LWRC's piston rifles....back when they were Leitner-Wise. Have I contacted them b/c they now offer hammer forged bbls, one piece carriers, and NiCorr finish on everything? No. Why? B/c if I want those upgrades and evolutions of the product, I understand I have to pay for them....regardless of my lifetime (yes, it was lifetime for folks that got in on the bottom floor) warranty. Nothing is broken so I haven't had to use it. Your trigger is not broken....it has trigger slap....so do a lot of AKs. If you don't like your trigger slap....then YOU have to take responsibility for the fact that you CHOSE to buy an older model. If you bought a new one today from RA or one of their regular vendors, you'd get all the upgrades. Another option would include sending it off to Bill Springfield, but if Terra already did a 'trigger job' for you....it's probably like my 2nd XCR that still had some minor slap after Bill worked on it. This is like saying....I have a Ford truck I bought in 2007....but I want the 2010 upgrades for free. Further, you say you only have wolf to run in the gun.....but the mfg recommends you break it in (for good reason) with the higher powered ammo. I'd at least try what the mfg recommends (FOR THE BREAK IN PERIOD) before sending it in. I agree....it should (and does) shoot wolf; just maybe not on the setting you think it should. Sean WOW Sean where do I start.... None of my AK's have trigger slap, not one! As for the XCR............ OK let s see I bought the gun brand spankin new about 2- 3 years ago along with a friend who said he was down for one if I was. I got the gun direct through my other friend who has an FFL, they came straight from Robinson to Glen "FFL" too me and my bud Ray brand new. Mine went into the vault along with the other vault queens and my buds went to the range and preformed beautifully and the Banned-of-Brothers Machine Gun-Shoot. I personally shot rays gun and helped "LOL" with the 300 round break in which BTW was flawless. I had no reason to think my gun would preform any different. Fast forward a few months and your truly crashed the FAL-Files shoot down at Mickeys "a great bunch of guys" where my XCR ran about 14 rounds, all single shot. I called Robinson and spoke to a knowledgeable young man who's name eludes me but he assured me that the XCR would run anything and his suggestion was to try the new quick adjustable gas system for the low price of just $125, my friend passed as his gun was fine as-is and he was not going to Fuck with it! I installed the new gas system on my gun and promptly tossed it into the vault for the next few months thinking my problems where solved. I took my gun out the second time "probably 8 months has passed from date of purchase" and again I have the coolest single shot on the block. I call Robinson again and had the great pleasure to speak with Terra who said she would get my gun running right! She told me to send just the upper but at my insistence I sent the whole gun because the damn trigger was slapping the piss out of my index finger Terra told me she would work her magic on the lower/trigger as well. Around three weeks from the time I sent the gun in I got it back, "not bad I thought" with a phone call from Terra explaining that there was a bad batch of gas blocks and I got one of them "lucky me"! The call went on and Terra explain that she had changed my trigger to single stage and she had personally run 2 mags of Wolf and all problems seemed cured, have a nice day. Once again the gun went into the vault perfect and ready.............. Then I got a call that my father had been struck and killed by a motor vehicle in June of 08, needless to say things changed dramatically for me. The day after I buried my father my brother and I got served with legal paper and it was on again off again to court until 4 months ago. I went shooting a grand total of 3 times in the last 1-1/2 years, the XCR did not make any of those trips until now. So now I an sitting on a 2-3 year old "new" gun that runs on setting 4 with Wolf ammo like I wanted, but beats my finger numb every time I pull the trigger. I called Robinson and left a message with Terra and I did what anyone else would do with Internet access with a gun problem, I came straight to AR15.com! Since I went shooting dormant for over a year there have apparently been some improvements in the XCR in both the trigger and the receiver. I would now very much like to get my $1600 gun up and running as it has not run right from day one and I'm just a tad disappointed with my XCR. Yes it has been a long time coming but some things take president over shooting, and now that one of the roughest patches of my life is over I would love to get back to some of the things that bring me joy, shooting "and hopefully my XCR!" No I have not devoted my life to following the evolution of the XCR but I sure hope to get caught up and get my rifle to current specs with out dropping another $200 or so into it! Once again thank you to all who posted "to help" and bolster in particular, the kindness that some show on this board never ceases to amaze me. P.S. The short version is I'm just going to gut out the last 100 rounds "with a shooting glove" and see what happens at lower gas settings when time permits unless I hear different from Robinson. Finally, can someone here tell me what is the difference with the "enhanced trigger" vs. the original trigger , and do you need the latest receiver up-grade to fit it in the rifle?
One more thing, I'll be damned if I buy a Bushmaster ACR at rape prices.
. I'm just going to answer the pertinent part: No, you don't need a different receiver to put in the new 2 stage enhanced trigger. And: if you have a problem with the XCR....you should go to the XCR forum, not Arf.com.....Terra is a regular there as are many folks that could help you out. There simply isn't the pool of info here that there is there. My apologies about you buying used.....didn't realize you sat on it that long before shooting it. My poor reading comprehension led me to believe you bought it from your friend. I was wrong. Simple as that. Still doesn't change any of what I said before about paying for upgrades and proper break in per the mfg. My PDW only runs on 4 with wolf as well.....but I don't plan on sending it back. As I said, it's soft shooting and isn't tearing up the buffer (and it's been broken in).....throws brass about 8-12 feet which is deemed appropriate via the Operators Manual for the proper gas setting for the ammo. HTH, Sean |
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First off, thanks, Sean, and thanks bolster, it's just what you guys and a few others said a "Hyper-function" with Wolf and not enough poop to function the weapon on setting 3. I just got off the phone with Terra and she just spent ample time explaining what was going on with my weapon, "THANK YOU TERRA!!!!!" I have a enhanced trigger group inbound and I'm going to let go of some of my SHTF ammo to break in my XCR! Once again thank you to all who contributed, and TERRA at Robinson Armament . I look forward to proudly defending the XCR Kool-Aid here in AR15.com very soon. I will give you guys an update after I get the trigger parts in and bullets down range, and my XCR broke in! Robinson Armament is indeed lucky to have a Customer service/warrant tech such as Terra, are you listening H&K??? Man it's nice to be stoked again about my XCR, I'm sure the trigger group is going to handle the slap issue. BTW thanks for the XCR/ Robinson forum suggestion sean1 I'll give it a shot! Lastly, sean1 what barrel length is your PDW, I'm looking very hard at a Micro 71/2 " barrel....
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First off, thanks, Sean, and thanks bolster, it's just what you guys and a few others said a "Hyper-function" with Wolf and not enough poop to function the weapon on setting 3. I just got off the phone with Terra and she just spent ample time explaining what was going on with my weapon, "THANK YOU TERRA!!!!!" I have a enhanced trigger group inbound and I'm going to let go of some of my SHTF ammo to break in my XCR! Once again thank you to all who contributed, and TERRA at Robinson Armament . I look forward to proudly defending the XCR Kool-Aid here in AR15.com very soon. I will give you guys an update after I get the trigger parts in and bullets down range, and my XCR broke in! Robinson Armament is indeed lucky to have a Customer service/warrant tech such as Terra, are you listening H&K??? Man it's nice to be stoked again about my XCR, I'm sure the trigger group is going to handle the slap issue. BTW thanks for the XCR/ Robinson forum suggestion sean1 I'll give it a shot! Lastly, sean1 what barrel length is your PDW, I'm looking very hard at a Micro 71/2 " barrel....Mine's a 9", the other is 14.5" with a perm attached Vortex to bring it to just over 16" and then I have a 16" in 5.56 and 6.8 on the other rifle. To be honest, wolf so far is only running reliably on 4 setting in any of those 5.56 rifles.....but again, the brass is being thrown 8-12 feet which is supposed to be how you determine the optimal gas setting for the rifle. Sean |
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