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Posted: 9/6/2009 6:47:14 AM EDT
I purchased a hardly used Hornday LNL press from a buddy. It came with two sets of Hornady FL .223 die sets. I can't get the cases to re size so that they measure good in a lyman length / headspace gauge (shoulder to head length is to long). Started out with the die backed out a 1/4 turn off the shell plate. Made small adjustments down checking the cases in the gage each adjustment. The die was adjusted down to the point where the press was camming over pretty hard and the cases where starting to crush. I checked a factory round in the Lyman gage and it checked good. Tried both sets of resizing dies and even removed the depriming assembly to make sure it was not bottoming out. Used two sources of one time shoot brass mixed head stamps. I am about to the point of buying another set of dies from a different manufacture. Any suggestions / ideas?
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Most resizing dies come with instructions, and usually say close the press, screw the die in until it contacts the shellholder, back off the press, turn in 1/4 turn to take the play out of the press. There is usually some camming action, but nothing that the effort of a 10 year old couldn't do.
What do you mean by "crushing the case"? Are you using case lube on the body of the case? Did the shellholder come with the die set? Sometimes dimensions are different. |
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Are you checking OAL? ( I might be mistaken here on exactly what your problem is. Sometimes I need to see a picture.)
It is very common on .223 and other such rounds that you will find the OAL to be excessive. I check 100% of my rifle cases for OAL and find that MANY are excessive. For this just use any of the available sizing tools to trim the case. As these hot shouldered rounds are fired they tend to extrude the case neck out. This tendency is worse on some brands of brass and will also vary with different loads. Also, especially when reloading NATO or Mil-Spec brass you might want to anneal the case necks as they will sometimes tend to develop cracks. .223 brass needs some TLC when its reloaded. But hey, its a heck of a lot easier than working with really hot .243 or .22-250 brass. Those, and other, super hot loads really beat up brass. |
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Die Adjustments
http://www.chuckhawks.com/adjust_reloading_dies.htm and IMHO…………"the secret" to re-loading a bottle neck cartridge for a gas gun is to gauge your re-sized brass. There are many different brands and ways to gauge your re-loads.
Examples…….. http://www.sinclairintl.com/prod_detail_list/Case-Gauges-Headspace-Tools This is how I do mine. 6) I use a single station press (RCBS Rock Chucker). You could use a progressive Dillon IF you wanted to. It's a personal choice. But, with whatever press you choose, consider shell plate/shell holder and/or press "flex.” I use a regular FL size/de-capper die, NOT the small base dies. To begin, lube your cases. Then, FL size and de-cap, 1 or 2 cases for a test. Gauge the re-sized case(s), to confirm that the "correct re-size" has been achieved. I use a Forster Products case gauge (the Wilson or Dillon case gauges are also popular choices). Insert a case into the case gauge. The headstamped end of the case, needs to be at or between the high and low cuts on the gauge, to pass. This checks for the “correct re-size.“ While the other end, is used to check if the case will need to be trimmed (a job for later on). IF, it’s not the “correct re-size,” your die setting will need adjustment. Lower the ram and simply screw the die in or out a little. Don’t forget about the lock nut. Then, re-size another couple of test cases and check your work again. Repeat the test and adjustments, as needed. When you're satisfied that your test cases are properly re-sized, do the entire lot (remember to test some cases throughout the run). HTH. Aloha, Mark PS.............Hornady makes a LNL Classic (single stage) and LNL AP (progressive).............I recommend that BEGINNERS LEARN on a single stage press. BTW........there have been some reloaders that have "shaved off" the bottom of their die just a bit................in order to get the re-sizing that they needed. That would seem to imply that either QC is lacking OR that dimensions might just vary enough (between brands with compatibility). |
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The case in the picture was lubed the the first time it was ran through the resizing die but was not relubed during the adjustments down with the die. The oval shaped dents in the case are all the way around it and appeared only after the die had been adjusted a good amount down. I tried another case with the die set at that height and it produced the same oval shaped dents. I am assuming this means the case is being crushed and not dented from being over lubed. The shell plate came with the press and is the one that hornady suggests.
According to the lyman checking gage after the case has gone through the resizing die the shoulder to neck end length is too short and the shoulder to head end is too long. The case measures 1.773 which means it needs to be trimmed but the head space is off. 
The other pic is head of the case out past the no go on the check gage. The case is not deprimed because I left the depriming pin out during the resizing. I had no problems with setting up my 40 cal rcbs dies on this press.  
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Too much oil!
You removed the pin, but did you remove the expander? Remove the die and give it a good cleaning. A lot of times, if you don't put a little lube IN the necks. the expander will stretch/change the angle of the shoulder, enough to not pass the gage test. 'Borg |
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Turn the case around to find out whether the case head will enter the gage.
I bet it is too large. I encountered this problem last winter when helping a member. His brass was sized fine and entered my Wilson drop in gage perfectly. I measured 0.008 inches of headspace with a different gage. His Lyman gage was cut with a diameter too small to accept a 0.378 case head. I recall this same problem cropping up for someone else here since then. |
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As stated above, I'd go with the tight gauge. I have one too. Some heads may have a nick or bur, I use some steel wool to smooth them out and they fit. Others may be just to big for the tight gauge and I use some emery cloth to work them until they fit. The dings do look like to much lube from trying to size the case to fit into the gauge and cranking down your die, been there done that. Once the head fits into your gauge, I think you will see that you are bumping the shoulder back to far by cranking down your die.
I would separate by headstamps, clean and reset your die. Make sure the head fits in the gauge and try again before you spend a dime. |
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Quoted:
Too much oil! You removed the pin, but did you remove the expander? Remove the die and give it a good cleaning. A lot of times, if you don't put a little lube IN the necks. the expander will stretch/change the angle of the shoulder, enough to not pass the gage test. 'Borg I agree with 'Borg. I use a Hornady FL sizing die in a Rockchucker to size 223. What Lube are you using? I use Dillon or Midway spray lube. My Hornady die will size below the lower step of case gauge if die is screwed down too much. Cases measured in a Dillon case gauge. Try lubing the neck. |
| I see a picture of a case gage sitting on a table with the case sticking out. Those type of case gages are set up to measure two things, headspace (base to datum) on one end, and overall length on the other. If you are trying to use the gage with it sitting on the table and you have a long case, it will never read right for headspace. Pick the gage up and hold it vertically. Drop the case in and see where the head ends up compared to the steps on the gage. Any of the case neck extending past the bottom of the gage means your overall length is long. |
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Hydraulic dents on the sides of your case. Too much lube.
______________________ And.......... Good point shortround. About holding the gauge vertically and NOT placing it on the table top. The table top is for checking the case length. Place the resized case into the gauge and with the headstamp end down on the table top......check for length. Make sure that the case isn't stuck within the gauge, let it rest on the table top. The neck end needs to be, at or between, the high and low cuts on the gauge. I once trimmed a bunch of cases without the "table top method"............my cases ended up 1.740" in length. Course............IF, your instructions are different. Well.........there you go. Aloha, Mark |
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