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Posted: 3/27/2012 5:29:19 AM EDT
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A few questions...
Anybody loading this? It seems from what I've read, many (if not most) factory loads are light due to the possibility of use in "old pistols". My reloading books all mention that their data is "low" due to "old pistols" and that competition shooters "routinely exceed these levels in custom guns". Would it not be safe to consider an STI 1911 a "strong" if not necessarily "custom " pistol? I'm planning on using 124g FN with 231 to start. While I usually load the majority of my cartridges to moderate levels, any idea what the safe upper end velocity range for .38 Super would be in a "well built custom gun"? It seems the manuals I have are about 100 fps faster for .38 Super vs. 9mm. Other articles I've read online talk about velocities approaching .357 SIG in appropriate guns with appropriate brass. I plan on using the Starline .38 Super Comp brass, as it seems from what I've read, to be one of the strongest cases available. There is 2 variations of brass... the "original" semi-rimmed, and the "new & improved" rimless. (.38 Super vs. .38 Super Comp). It seems from what I've read, the .38 Super Comp will work in most pistols, some may require extractor tuning or replacement. Anyone happen to know if the .38 Super Comp brass will work in STI guns? I'm thinking so, since I've read that the "Comp" brass is pretty much mandatory for double stack mags, and STI makes some double stack guns. I would think they likely use the same extractor. Any other advise on .38 Super you want to share would be appreciated... |
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Quoted:
A few questions... Anybody loading this? It seems from what I've read, many (if not most) factory loads are light due to the possibility of use in "old pistols". My reloading books all mention that their data is "low" due to "old pistols" and that competition shooters "routinely exceed these levels in custom guns". Would it not be safe to consider an STI 1911 a "strong" if not necessarily "custom " pistol? I'm planning on using 124g FN with 231 to start. While I usually load the majority of my cartridges to moderate levels, any idea what the safe upper end velocity range for .38 Super would be in a "well built custom gun"? It seems the manuals I have are about 100 fps faster for .38 Super vs. 9mm. Other articles I've read online talk about velocities approaching .357 SIG in appropriate guns with appropriate brass. I plan on using the Starline .38 Super Comp brass, as it seems from what I've read, to be one of the strongest cases available. There is 2 variations of brass... the "original" semi-rimmed, and the "new & improved" rimless. (.38 Super vs. .38 Super Comp). It seems from what I've read, the .38 Super Comp will work in most pistols, some may require extractor tuning or replacement. Anyone happen to know if the .38 Super Comp brass will work in STI guns? I'm thinking so, since I've read that the "Comp" brass is pretty much mandatory for double stack mags, and STI makes some double stack guns. I would think they likely use the same extractor. Any other advise on .38 Super you want to share would be appreciated... MUCH better place for advice on .38 and its capabilities BEYOND the loading books is www.brianenos.com This forum is great and all, but its best to limit talk here to loads approved in load books here. Just sayin' |
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Quoted:
MUCH better place for advice on .38 and its capabilities BEYOND the loading books is www.brianenos.com This forum is great and all, but its best to limit talk here to loads approved in load books here. Just sayin' Thanks, I'm a member there too... Found a ton of info! Thanks for the reminder! Think I'll use Longshot instead of 231, I've got 8 pounds of that & only really use it for .357 SIG. |
| It has been a LONG time. The powder I remember having the best luck with was Blue Dot and I also loaded a number of hot loads that I would say qualify as a +P or even +P+, seems to me I also loaded with WIN 231 (as I recall). I further recall my Speer manual did not recommend Bullseye as the small charge in the case was an issue. Over the years I probably loaded and shot several thousand rounds in .38 Super with Blue Dot as my go to powder after lots of trial and error. |
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I'm building a single stack, open comp for competition in May.
Two things decided before our two man shooting team started buying parts. 1.) We were using .38 Super Comp because it fed better and stronger than rimmed. 2.) We were using N/W ramped barrels for greater support. Most events don't require super high velocity except movers. We're running speed shifters on top of Caspian shrouds with Aimponts. We need some lead on target that speed shifters give and we need velocity to target so lead isn't lost. Ramped barrels and .38 Super Comp is the only way to run hot loads and reliably feed. We haven't really discussed loading yet, except all production is being run from one 1050. I'm confident our powder choice will be VihtaVouri 3N37. Primers will be Federal match, magum or small rifle. All depends on load work up and load performance. Bullets ? Cheap jacketed ranging from Montana Gold to Hornady Hap. Who knows ? Just guessing weight range I'd say 124, 125ish. Will cross that bridge when we get there. I'm concerned with gettin pistol back from Acc-U-Rail for now. FYI, sharing some build detail. These guns are overbuilt for abuse. Accurails will help give them some life. Just an out of the box STI won't live a long a fruitful life running hot super comp. Running past SAAMI spec is never, ever smart and if I didn't have good reason. There's no way I'd load past acceptable pressures. What I'm trying to relay is be careful, don't take risks unless neccessary. My team capitan has a lot of experience over the years, that said I'm not following him blindly into the abyss. |
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I think it's funny that .38 super started as .38 Automatic, as a 130 grain bullet going 1260 FPS. That was too harsh on the guns and it was dropped to 1040 FPS or so. Then the 1911 was made, and chambered in a "hot" .38 automatic, the Super .38 a 130 grain bullet at 1300 fps. Then, apparently, 30-40 years later, manufacturers decided people didn't know the differance between the two, and started loading Super .38 as .38 Super +P and dropped it to a 130 grain bullet at 1200-1260 fps. |
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Quoted:
I think it's funny that .38 super started as .38 Automatic, as a 130 grain bullet going 1260 FPS. That was too harsh on the guns and it was dropped to 1040 FPS or so. Then the 1911 was made, and chambered in a "hot" .38 automatic, the Super .38 a 130 grain bullet at 1300 fps. Then, apparently, 30-40 years later, manufacturers decided people didn't know the differance between the two, and started loading Super .38 as .38 Super +P and dropped it to a 130 grain bullet at 1200-1260 fps. That's a spot on observation from one side of the dime. Now let's flip it over. Pressures weren't what they are today with double based powders. Velocity is a speed reading from the muzzle. It tells us nothing of the violence occuring inside the chamber after ignition. Powders have changed from single based to double. Pressure spikes are real concern. Then entering the .38 Super arena are race gunners. Stop there, cause now I need to back up and describe what's happened in the last 40 or so years of barrel chamber design. Everyone knows a Gen 1 Glock will feed anything stuffed in a case. We are all educated on Gen 1 revolution to Gen 4. If future Glock generations have to endure what changes have been made to 1911 chambers over 100 years. Then it won't be long until Glock endures tolerence stacking as well. Your evolution of .38 Super velocities reflect changes in 1911 chamber designs through the years. It also reflects fluctuations in .38 Super popularity. |
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