I have seen several Colt M16A1s in good (but not minty) condition sell lately in the $12.5-13k range. For $14k, it had better be 99% and all original.

And no factory Colt full-autos (AR15s, M16/A1/A2 had the large takedown pin holes. If the one you are looking at does, there is something seriously wrong here.

And since you're new to M16s, JSG, in case you don't know ... a converted SP1 is worth at least $3k less than a factory M16.

The price guide is a great tool, but the MG market continues to drop, and that chart was last updated in July ... since then, there have been quite a few popping up in the $12.5-13k range on the boards. They do sell quickly at that price, tho. So $12-12.5k is a pretty good price, if all is correct.

In today's market, I wouldn't have bid over $8.5k for it. Here's why:

The ad states that it is an H&R that has been refinished. Now, H&Rs are more rare than other transferable factory M16s like Colts, because H&R never sold to non-military govt agencies or to LE. I doubt there are more than 20 original, intact H&R M16s ... prolly more like 10. They are museum pieces.

However, there are prolly a hundred rewelded demils on the Registry. And a reweld has the lowest market value of all transferable M16s or registered-receiver conversions.

Rewelds are receivers that the U.S. government demilled by torch-cutting into two pieces in the late '70s/early '80s. They sold them by the 55-gal barrel full as scrap aluminum. Enterprising 02/02 FFL/SOT manufacturers bought up barrels full, sorted through until they found a long front half and a long rear half, trimmed them to meet, and welded them together, remarking and refinishing the results.

The problems with rewelds are many: In the first place, the front and rear halves are from different guns (sometimes, even different manufacturers). Second, you do not know the quality of the welding work, and a less-than-expertly welded-up aluminum receiver is not good. Finally, even a perfectly welded receiver is never as strong as an uncut one. Receivers are forged under pressure to align the grain of the metal; cutting with a torch, then rewelding, creates a structure of uneven strength. A reweld will crack or break much more easily than an intact uncut original. BTW, this is from a conversation with John Norrell, who did some of the very best rewelds back in the day –– he took the time to explain to me why a reweld can never equal an original.

The fact that the auction item was not billed as an uncut original, which would increase its value tremendously and the fact that it had been refinished, indicates a high likelihood that it is a reweld. And rewelds are not worth even $9k.

Also FWIW, I have dealt with the seller in the past, and he's a good guy. The pointof an auction, however, is not to get a fair or market value –– it is designed to generate the most income the market will bear. And at an auction, all it takes is for two bidders to want the same item, regardless of its market value.

That's my take; YMMV.

An X-ray is the only way to tell.

Back before the cutoff date (May 19, 1986), there were no printed rules for engraving (other than it had to be marked). It could be anywhere –– on the rear spur of the frame, on the flat area covered by the pistol grip was a popular spot.

In addition, at the time it was legal, and common, to do the markings lightly with a vibrapen... and those can, and often are, lost in a refinish.

I would not even trust a Freedom of Information Act report. The NFA Branch staff back then was notoriously inept, and many makers and manufacturers weren't all that good at filling out the loosely-enforced paperwork requirements. I've seen Colt SP1 conversions where the paperwork entering them into the NFA Registry was a Form 1 listing Colt as the manufacturer. ?!? Colt was an 07/02 and would have filed a Form 2, right? Then you run the serial number through Colt and find out it was manufactured by them months prior to the date on the Form 1. And so what happened was, an individual bought an SP1, then filed a Form 1 on it, and listed Colt as the maker, either through ignorance or intent ... and the NFA Branch just entered it in the NFA Registry exactly like he put it on the form.

As far as rewelds, most were made by folks who knew how to fill out a Form 2 ... but again, the data-entry folks back then weren't the sharpest. They did probably get the dates right, but who knows?

When you're talking a difference of $3,000 or more, I would make friends with a dentist or veterinarian and x-ray it. Or stick to guns with known histories and verifiably original finish, because you can't do a reweld and have an original finish.

+1.

Back in those days, ATF and .gov did not have specific rules for demilling .gov-owned MGs. All that was needed was to cut it in two with a torch. The duty usually went to the low GI on the totem pole –– they just handed him a torch and said, "Cut 'em in two." His work was over when they were done, so it was not done with any precision. I've seen 'em cut through the magwell, through the trigger area, diagaonally across the receiver, even laterally (top and bottom pieces).

Today, ATF requires that to be considered demilled, a receiver must be cut in specific places –– each MG design has an ATF instruction sheet, but in most cases in ends up being three equal pieces. And then the center section must be destroyed –– possession of all three pieces still constitutes a illegal, unregistered machine gun.

Doesn't matter for U.S.military guns, though –– today, rather than being cut, by official .gov policy all surplus MG receivers must be fed into a shredder that reduces them to fragments less than an inch in diameter.

There is no simple answer.

Determining originality of factory finish depends on:

–– Color, which is determined by when it was built, which in turn can often be indicated by serial number. Earlier guns are a lighter gray, and that gray became progressively darker through the '70s and '80s. However, this also can be affected by use, wear, and frequency of oiling ... the gray does darken over time, and not necessarily in a predictable manner. One hint: There are no transferable black-finish factory Colts. Black did not become the Colt color until after May 19, 1986, the cutoff for transferables.

–– Texture, which I do not think I can describe adequately, other than to say I know it when I see it. I have never seen a refinish with the exact surface texture of a factory gun.

–– Hardness/softness, which is a particular clue with molycoat-based refinishes. Moly is actually the finish most likely to come close to duplicating the color and texture of factory gray anodizing ... but it is softer, and lacks the crisp hardness of anodizing. I check this by picking an out-of-the-way spot –– usually the receiver tang under the pistol grip –– and taking my thumbnail and pressing hard. Moly will "give" (and sometimes, be permanently marked) ... while anodizing will be like pressing a rock: Zero give, zero impression.

As others have noted, while Victor at US Anodizing is an artist (and IMHO re-anodizing is the refinish of choice) ... there is just enough difference in both color and texture to tell it immediately from a factory Colt finish. (Sometimes, it's better than Colt's ... but that's another thread.)

So show us the pix. That's a start.

No, I would not.

The rack number is part of its history, and the wear only shows that it has done its duty.

IMHO, the only time you should refinish a factory Colt is when the remaining finish gets down to well under 50%. I mean, it's a tool, right? If you want a safe queen, buy one ... if you are going to be shooting it, treat it well, but wear is inevitable.

Don't get me wrong –– when you own a gun, you own it. You can gold-plate it it you want.

But there are not that many transferable Colts out there, and every one that gets refinished loses a part of its history. It goes down in value, and thus the others go up.

I look to other valuable, important firearms ... like Lugers and Colt Single-Action Armys. I started shooting at a time when many owners refinished them routinely ... and I've lived long enough to see those folks regret it, because it cut the value in half, or worse, compared to an "unrestored" example.

Yeah, we all say, "I'm gonna keep this 'til I die, so screw it: I want it to look the way I want it." But life throws challenges at us .... and you never see them coming. When a decade later, your five-year-old daughter needs a liver transplant and you're trying to sell crap to pay for it, you learn the consequences of self-centered decisions.

Just sayin' .... and remember, once refinished, you cannot "undo" that action.

YMMV.

BTW, looking again at the pix of yours ... it is nicer than many factory Colts, even with the nicks and rack number. Seriously, I would not refinish it. Maybe your great-great-grandkids might need to.

From what I can see in the pix, generally it looks pretty good. The color and texture appear to be correct. Only thing I notice is that it doesn't have the dab of black paint behind the bolt hold-open rollpin, which Colt put on 90% of the uppers because of a scratch there during assembly ... but this one may have been one of the few that Colt managed to assemble without getting a scratch, and thus no paint dab.

If those are the original internals, the wear is consistent with an M16 which has seen no more than 2-3k rounds since new.

If you can get it for $12k, go for it. Even $12.5k is not out of market range.

Life expectancy if properly maintained? Probably forever.

There are some range-rental Colt M16s in service with over 300,000 rounds down the tube. And range-rental guns get treated worse than anything except boot-camp M16s, and I'd expect some of those still used by the U.S. military training are past 500,000. In neither case would I say they were properly maintained, to the standards of a civilian owner with a transferable.

If you want to prolong its life:

–– When you buy it, strip it down to the bare receiver (except for the bolt hold-open and triggerguard pins, which can be damaged on removal). Carefully pack up the original parts –– fire-control, upper, stock, receiver extension, etc. –– and store them safely. That gives you the option of returning it to all-original configuration, with all original parts. Then build up the receiver with brand new Colt or trusted milspec parts.

––For best results, stick to Colt uppers in 5.56. That is what it is designed to use, and is the single best way to avoid "stacked tolerances" issues in both wear and reliability. If you want to use really short (sub-10.5") uppers, or 9mm, or .22RF, know that those have special maintenance requirements, and potentially can increase wear, so you need to keep a closer eye on them.

––Use only top-quality ammo.

––Replace the recoil and fire-control springs on a regular basis, just like you change the oil in your car. The function is similar: Springs lose their strength over time, and that springs are what minimize and control contact between moving parts. Weak springs = more, faster wear. I replace mine about every 5,000 rounds, at a cost of about $20.

Do the above and you simply will never be able to afford to buy enough ammo to wear out your M16. It'll still be running and looking 100% when your great-great-great grandkids inherit it.

Photo below is an M16A1 I bought as-new in 1994. I use it with ten different Colt uppers. I'd guessestimate that in the past 16 years, I've put over 50,000 rounds through it. But I followed the above approach re: parts, ammo, springs, etc. The finish is 100% original, all the receiver holes and specs are perfect; no "white metal" showing anywhere. I'd rate it as a 98% gun today.

As always, YMMV.