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Posted: 4/19/2009 8:25:34 AM EDT
| I loaded up some .223 cartridges using 25gr of H335 and 60 gr Hornady V Max bullets. I misread the data sheet that says the maximum charge is 24 gr of H335. I'm new to reloading, should I scrap these rounds and start over? How much of a difference will the 1 gr make? Thanks. |
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IN NO WAY AM I SAYING YOU SHOULD EXCED THE MAX LOAD FOR PUBLISHED RELOADING DATA!!!!
that decision is up to you. 
i would fire a few and inspect the cartridge for budgles, splits, and bleeding primers though and see if it is ok. reloading data seems to be "lawyered" a bit nowdays. as long as your brass is good and strong the load should be fine and I would have no problem fireing them. THAT IS MY PERSONAL STUPID ASS THINKING AND YOU SHOULD NOT DO WHAT I WOULD DO. |
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IN NO WAY AM I SAYING YOU SHOULD EXCED THE MAX LOAD FOR PUBLISHED RELOADING DATA!!!! that decision is up to you.
i would fire a few and inspect the cartridge for budgles, splits, and bleeding primers though and see if it is ok. reloading data seems to be "lawyered" a bit nowdays. as long as your brass is good and strong the load should be fine and I would have no problem fireing them. THAT IS MY PERSONAL STUPID ASS THINKING AND YOU SHOULD NOT DO WHAT I WOULD DO. This is virgin factory brass, not once fired. Does that make a difference? |
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1 gr. will probably not blow up your rifle but you will probably experience pierced primers, heavily flattened primers and expanded primer pockets. I would pull them and start over. You must pay strict attention when reloading.
My question since you don't specifically say, is did you work up this load or just say I think I will use that one? A good piece of advice so you keep your eyes and fingers as well as the safety of others is work up all loads. Do not just arbitrarily pick one out of the manual. Not all guns are the same. Safe in one can be bad juju in another especially at the higher end. |
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Only difference is you would kill the life of the brass.these may shoot OK but be flat primers and in no way useable again.
if you have a LOT of these loaded up then you could buy a bullet puller that goes into your press and pull'em yourself. some mark the bullets, some don't just check on what you are getting. I would pull them. |
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1 gr. will probably not blow up your rifle but you will probably experience pierced primers, heavily flattened primers and expanded primer pockets. I would pull them and start over. You must pay strict attention when reloading. My question since you don't specifically say, is did you work up this load or just say I think I will use that one? A good piece of advice so you keep your eyes and fingers as well as the safety of others is work up all loads. Do not just arbitrarily pick one out of the manual. Not all guns are the same. Safe in one can be bad juju in another especially at the higher end. I just picked the load out of the manual. Thanks for the advice. |
| Which manual were you looking at? I have noticed alot of manuals vary on a max load. In my experience hodgden's are pretty conservative, if you look at a speer, or hornady manual, it may list the 25 as max charge. I would look around a bit before you pull them. |
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Which manual were you looking at? I have noticed alot of manuals vary on a max load. In my experience hodgden's are pretty conservative, if you look at a speer, or hornady manual, it may list the 25 as max charge. I would look around a bit before you pull them. I noticed that too, all the manuals seem to have different charges. |
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IN NO WAY AM I SAYING YOU SHOULD EXCED THE MAX LOAD FOR PUBLISHED RELOADING DATA!!!! that decision is up to you.
i would fire a few and inspect the cartridge for budgles, splits, and bleeding primers though and see if it is ok. reloading data seems to be "lawyered" a bit nowdays. as long as your brass is good and strong the load should be fine and I would have no problem fireing them. THAT IS MY PERSONAL STUPID ASS THINKING AND YOU SHOULD NOT DO WHAT I WOULD DO. Same here... Published data is conservative many times, NOT SAYING IT IS IN THIS CASE, but I'd try a few and look for high pressure signs. Of course, the standard text book answer is "don't shoot them, they may be dangerous". Like stated above... do not do what I do...
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IN NO WAY AM I SAYING YOU SHOULD EXCED THE MAX LOAD FOR PUBLISHED RELOADING DATA!!!! that decision is up to you.
i would fire a few and inspect the cartridge for budgles, splits, and bleeding primers though and see if it is ok. reloading data seems to be "lawyered" a bit nowdays. as long as your brass is good and strong the load should be fine and I would have no problem fireing them. THAT IS MY PERSONAL STUPID ASS THINKING AND YOU SHOULD NOT DO WHAT I WOULD DO. This is virgin factory brass, not once fired. Does that make a difference? Do not take this as advice, treat it as a report on how grizzlyarms and the poster above would handle the situation. Note it and file it in the back of your mind in case there's a follow up about problems with a hot load. You don't need to scrap the loads, pull them down and reuse the components. The primers should not be removed, they're okay as is. Starting with maximum charge weights is a bad idea. A better approach is to take all the maximum charge weights from every resource you have, find the average, then start with a load 10% below that, shooting progressively heavier charge weights to find one that produces the best accuracy in your rifle and approaching the maximum range with some caution. The span of maximums bounds the likely maximum charge; it might be the highest found, and it might not. |
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I loaded up some .223 cartridges using 25gr of H335 and 60 gr Hornady V Max bullets. I misread the data sheet that says the maximum charge is 24 gr of H335. I'm new to reloading, should I scrap these rounds and start over? How much of a difference will the 1 gr make? Thanks. B486........Hornady Third Edition list 26 GR max with a 60 gr V max......... As some have stated the decision is yours..... The quality of the firearm you are using should be taken into consideration. I have a LMT M-4 16" and have fired 26 gr of H-335 behind a 62 gr bullet........Average velocity was 3050 FPS. No primer problem.....no case problems......... Just for your consideration...... As always BE CAREFUL when venturing into the unknown............... Jim |
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How many do you have loaded? You might consider loading up a series from the starting charge to your current load and see how it goes. Some manuals post max loads above what you have, I would not shoot them without working up. I loaded 60 rounds at 25 grains. I also loaded 10 each at 22.5, 23, and 23.5 to see how they shoot. I'm going to start with those and take it from there. |
| I understand the importance of working up to max loads but Mil spec max loads were not worked up in my gun or anyone else on here's gun and no one hesitates to shoot them, So whats the difference in loading a round that is a known max pressure load from a manual and firing it? |
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I understand the importance of working up to max loads but Mil spec max loads were not worked up in my gun or anyone else on here's gun and no one hesitates to shoot them, So whats the difference in loading a round that is a known max pressure load from a manual and firing it? Interesting question. I don't know either. |
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OK, so if 63 grain Speer FMJBT has 25 grain H335 as Max (and it does) then the 60 grain Hornady VMAX should be OK at 25 grains powder, even though it is listed everywhere as 24 grains max. H335.
You did not say if you had 5 or 500 of these "overloads" on hand? That might make a difference in your decision. So, what you can do to satisfy the "safety first" protocol is build up 8 or 10 of these same bullets and cases but stair step up the powder load from 23, 23.5 24, 24.5, finally 25 grains. Shoot them all starting min. load and going up. At each rung of the ladder, stop and carefully examine the fired casings. Is the primer cup being distressed (gas leak around primer cup, primer cup smashed into a "tee" shape, firing pin dimple starting to extrude back up the firing pin hole, reentrant caldera forming at the bottom of the dimple, etc.)? Is the casing head showing signs of distress (primer cup loose or falling out in the spent round, belt dimension at the [.200] reference point expanded over .0015 inches on the diameter, casing head face starting to extrude up the ejector pin hole or the extractor cut out slot, etc)? If not, then the 25 grains are probably OK to shoot in your test rifle. You have passed the due caution test. OR you can grind off part of the plastic tip. Jig up the round and carefully drill out about 5 grains of plastic and lead from the center. Not too large or the bullet will not feed in the autoloader. Now you have a 55 or 53 grain modified Hornady Vmax and 25 grains H335 is good to go. |
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I understand the importance of working up to max loads but Mil spec max loads were not worked up in my gun or anyone else on here's gun and no one hesitates to shoot them, So whats the difference in loading a round that is a known max pressure load from a manual and firing it? Interesting question. I don't know either. Because you don't know the pressure that load will produce in your gun. The long throat in a 5.56X45 chamber mitigates the high chamber pressure of USGI pressure, and most off the rack AR rifles have a chamber with a long throat. The other factor is close QC of the USGI ammunition so we know that excursions outside that maximum pressure will be rare. Read these: http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=434 http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=473 The SAAMI pressure for .223 Remington cartridge is 50,000 CUP or 55,000 psi piezo. 5.56X45 is 60,000 CUP. Note the differences in the allowable piezo measured pressures in the links. |
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How many do you have loaded? You might consider loading up a series from the starting charge to your current load and see how it goes. Some manuals post max loads above what you have, I would not shoot them without working up. I loaded 60 rounds at 25 grains. I also loaded 10 each at 22.5, 23, and 23.5 to see how they shoot. I'm going to start with those and take it from there. I don't understand the logic of this process. Working up 10 rounds then jumping 1.5grains and loading 60 rounds over the top? This isn't good technique and doesn't make sense. Please reevaluate your technique. I understand you misread the data from 24 to 25 to be max and even if the max load WAS 25gr it would still not make sense. Why would you skip your work up steps and then load SIXTY at what you thought to be maximum? While it may not be actually unsafe to fire these loads, why take the risk of damaging you, others or your firearm, weakening/ruining your brass, wasting the bullets/powder? Why take the chance. Use this as a learning experience and pull them down. Bet you double check your data from now on and it won't happen again. FWIW, I shoot the 60gr VMAX's in a couple of my 223 ARs and 110gr in my 308's and love them. They are very accurate in an accurate firearm. What you are going to find as you become more experienced is that these bullets (and most if not all others) are not at the peak of their accuracy at maximum velocity. My personal technique (and I don't claim it to be the right one...only mine) is to load 3 rounds in half grain increments from 10% below max recommended (after comparing load books, powder and bullet manufacturer recommendations and shooting over a chrono. After comparing the velocities and targets for potential accuracy, I pick the potential loads (there may be more than one areas I am looking at) and drop 0.6 gr and work up in 0.2 increments to 0.6 above. Again I compare velocities and accuracy. I comfirm my selected load by 5 shot groups 0.3 grains below, at, and above the selected loads. Again, this is MY technique only and I am sure many can find fault in MY process...and I don't really care. 
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Sierra lists a max. charge of 25.6 with their 60 grain HP out of a Colt AR-15A2 H-Bar 1x7.
Personally, I use alot of HVMax 60's over 24.8 of H335. No flat primers, no leaks, no craters. Out of a RRA 20 inch Vmt. barrel, so its a .223 W chamber. I'd at least shoot a couple and look at them after working up from a min. charge. After. |
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How many do you have loaded? You might consider loading up a series from the starting charge to your current load and see how it goes. Some manuals post max loads above what you have, I would not shoot them without working up. I loaded 60 rounds at 25 grains. I also loaded 10 each at 22.5, 23, and 23.5 to see how they shoot. I'm going to start with those and take it from there. I don't understand the logic of this process. Working up 10 rounds then jumping 1.5grains and loading 60 rounds over the top? This isn't good technique and doesn't make sense. Please reevaluate your technique. I understand you misread the data from 24 to 25 to be max and even if the max load WAS 25gr it would still not make sense. Why would you skip your work up steps and then load SIXTY at what you thought to be maximum? While it may not be actually unsafe to fire these loads, why take the risk of damaging you, others or your firearm, weakening/ruining your brass, wasting the bullets/powder? Why take the chance. Use this as a learning experience and pull them down. Bet you double check your data from now on and it won't happen again. FWIW, I shoot the 60gr VMAX's in a couple of my 223 ARs and 110gr in my 308's and love them. They are very accurate in an accurate firearm. What you are going to find as you become more experienced is that these bullets (and most if not all others) are not at the peak of their accuracy at maximum velocity. My personal technique (and I don't claim it to be the right one...only mine) is to load 3 rounds in half grain increments from 10% below max recommended (after comparing load books, powder and bullet manufacturer recommendations and shooting over a chrono. After comparing the velocities and targets for potential accuracy, I pick the potential loads (there may be more than one areas I am looking at) and drop 0.6 gr and work up in 0.2 increments to 0.6 above. Again I compare velocities and accuracy. I comfirm my selected load by 5 shot groups 0.3 grains below, at, and above the selected loads. Again, this is MY technique only and I am sure many can find fault in MY process...and I don't really care. I loaded the 60 first. I went back and loaded the 10 at a time to see how those loads do before I do anything with the 60. |
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