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Posted: 3/18/2010 8:22:09 AM EDT
| Hey all, Went to the range this morning. to sight in my PA compact scope. Brought some wolf 55gr and some wolf i replaced their 55 with my 62gr. The powder charge from wolf was 23.0gr but i found a few down near 22.3. Made them all 23.0. The wolf cases ejected back from me at about 5:00 and 7 to 10 feet. Average velocity for the wolf was 2650. After sight in at 100yds i started my ladder test with varget. Started at 24gr and went up .02 for an ending of 27.2 No problem with overpressure. Anyways to the point. FPS started around 2700 and ended at 3011. I am using wcc brass and they all ended up off to my side at 3:00 and 3 feet away. This does not seem right. My rifle is a Colt hbar match target 20" original bolt parts. What you think. |
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WOW...where to start
Not exactly sure why you are messing with the powder in factory rounds or why you would swap out bullets like that...What did you make up the powder weight with....All seems like a bad idea. Your velocities may not be out of line depending on your barrel length and assuming you used the 62gr bullets Location of the ejected brass is irrelevant and will vary with the powder used. |
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.... What you think. That it's possible you should buy commercially loaded ammunition. We have no idea about your loads with Varget, you didn't tell us which bullet you're using. The ejection distance depends on port pressure and the spring in the ejector. Your Varget load is producing lower pressure than the Russian match. [It's Russian match because what you did makes about as much sense as Russian roulette.] |
| Hello, I used the wolf 55gr bullets to get the scope close to POA. The scope is calibrated for 62gr bullet. Then i pulled the 55 gr bullets and replaced them with the 62gr. These were pulled 109s. Since the fps of the wolf with the 55gr was in the 2600 range putting a heavier bullet should not be a problem. I used powder from some of the same wolf . I think someone call this mexican match ammo. I needed some 62gr to get the scope sight in to POA. This was only about 5 rds. After that i did the ladder test using varget and these 109 pulled 62gr bullets at 100 yds. Now the wolf from the factory at 2650 would sling that case back 7 to 10 feet. Now with my reloads @ 27.0 gr of varget hitting 3000 feet per sec only dropped the brass 3 feet to my right. I would think the more feet per sec the further my brass should land. |
| The scary part of your mexican match ammo (aka russian roulette ammo) is that a heavier bullet will increase chamber pressure.... Generally powder requirements are not what you would first think, a lighter projectile uses a lot more powder than a heavier projectile would. To be honest, these guys have it right... What you're doing is scary. You're essentially building rounds with unknown powder, and then just crossing your fingers and hoping it'll work out. It's a kaboom waiting to happen really. |
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Hello, I used the wolf 55gr bullets to get the scope close to POA. The scope is calibrated for 62gr bullet. Then i pulled the 55 gr bullets and replaced them with the 62gr. These were pulled 109s. Since the fps of the wolf with the 55gr was in the 2600 range putting a heavier bullet should not be a problem. I used powder from some of the same wolf . I think someone call this mexican match ammo. I needed some 62gr to get the scope sight in to POA. This was only about 5 rds. ~~ Snip~~ This tells me you need to sell, better yet give away your reloading tools this instant. If you don't understand the potential danger in what you have done and this post tells me you don't have a clue, you don't need to be reloading. Period, end of story.....I believe the current term is EPIC FAIL! ETA: I just looked up the POI difference at 200 yards for Federal factory 55grain vs 62 grain......It a whopping 1/2inch. Hardly worth the risk you are taking..... |
| Wolf is a mild 223 55gr cartridge. These rounds are averaging 2650 from the factory . The powder all came from the wolf rounds again only pushing 2650. I weighed the 55gr bullets and the weight was between 54.8 up to 56.8 from the factory. Were the powder charge was so low adding a bullet of 62gr is not that far off. I thought kabooms happen because of pressure. I went up to 3000 fps and still had no signs of pressure. These 5 rds i added the 62gr to were because i needed a 62 gr bullet to get POA. After that my reloads were all wcc cci primers primer pockets uniformed and flash holes deburred. CAOL was @2.250 With the factory powder load @ 23.0 and a 55gr bullet also seated @ 2.250 After replacing the 55 with the 62 Still got under 2700 fps and same point of impact. The ladder test showed me my rifle likes these 62grainers and a charge of 26 = or - of varget with a velocity ofabout 2900 fps that's 200 fpc faster than the bullets i added the 62grainers in. |
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*SIGH*
Stop fixating on the velocity it will vary from a plethora of influences To name a few, ambient air temp, barrel temperature, barrel length, actual temperature of the ammo, altitude and humidity. If you wish to retain all of your fingers and facial features please stop and find a local mentor to teach you and be willing to listen. |
| I thought when working up a load you use a crono so you have an idea of muzzle velocity. I thought muzzle velocity would give you a rough idea if you have to much pressure. I also watch my primers for signs. How do you all work up loads. I have been reloading for 15 yrs or so. I shoot in military matches and usually do quite well. |
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I thought when working up a load you use a crono so you have an idea of muzzle velocity. Yep, that is pretty much the end of its usefulness. Unless you are using the exact powder and lot number, primer, case, bullet and test bed weapon at the same altitude, temperature and humidity your velocity will vary from whats published in the manuals. Trying to use the device the way you are is IMHO reckless. What you seem to be missing is the potential danger in what you did by swapping the 55 for a 62 grain bullet and adding powder to the Wolf. You have no clue as to what powder of the day was used in that lot of ammo. Do they use the same powder in their 62 grain and 55 grain loads? Is the powder they used at the limit of its usability at 55 grain? Bulk powder used by commercial factory's varies greatly in consistency and there may have been a reason some of those rounds had less powder then the others based on lot to lot powder variation, it might not even be the same powder for all you know. |
| What you seem to be missing is the potential danger in what you did by swapping the 55 for a 62 grain bullet and adding powder to the WolF. I don't think you understand. The factory wolf rounds had 23.0 gr of powder I weighed 10 of these. They came out @ 23.0 2 came out at 22.5 or so. So i pulled another cartridge also wolf from the same box and made those last 2 the same as the other 8 all 23.0. I did not put more powder than what the factory had in these. I then put the 62gr bullet in 5 of those to sight in my scope fps were almost the same as the 55 gr alittle fast but bellow 2700fps |
I'm out.....
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I think everyone is being a bit hard on this fella. His experience told him that 55gr Wolf chroning at 2650 out of a 20" barrel gave him plenty of margin to pull a few and switch to a 62gr. He didn't mix any powders... he merely used some extra Wolf powder to bring them up to a consistent 23 grains, as some were low. I don't see ANY issue with that, if somebody has been doing this awhile. Gees, you'd think everybody here is on a high-and-mighty throne and jumps down the throat of anybody doing even the slightest mod, without really reading through what was done.
Now- I myself wouldn't be comfortable pushing a 62gr to over 3000 fps out of anything other than a 24" barrel (that's me). But he did a proper ladder, so again if he is comfortable reading pressure signs, no harm done. I would bet that the Wolf was ejecting such that it may have been missing the deflector entirely- and perhaps the Varget loads were ejecting with more force, hitting the deflector, and losing some energy in the process. Or, perhaps Wolf steel cases (they were steel I presume) were ejecting differently than WCC brass. ...my two cents. |
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I think everyone is being a bit hard on this fella. His experience told him that 55gr Wolf chroning at 2650 out of a 20" barrel gave him plenty of margin to pull a few and switch to a 62gr. He didn't mix any powders... he merely used some extra Wolf powder to bring them up to a consistent 23 grains, as some were low. I don't see ANY issue with that, if somebody has been doing this awhile. Gees, you'd think everybody here is on a high-and-mighty throne and jumps down the throat of anybody doing even the slightest mod, without really reading through what was done. Now- I myself wouldn't be comfortable pushing a 62gr to over 3000 fps out of anything other than a 24" barrel (that's me). But he did a proper ladder, so again if he is comfortable reading pressure signs, no harm done. I would bet that the Wolf was ejecting such that it may have been missing the deflector entirely- and perhaps the Varget loads were ejecting with more force, hitting the deflector, and losing some energy in the process. Or, perhaps Wolf steel cases (they were steel I presume) were ejecting differently than WCC brass. ...my two cents. I would agree if there was any sign the bullet switch had come after careful thought. Maybe so, but it's impossible to determine that right now. |
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A question or 2 for ya here, you say that you pulled bullets from wolf ammo correct? and then you also put heavier bullets on top of the wolf factory powder, is this correct?
Ok here for starters do you know exactly what powder they were using at that time those rounds came off the line, do you know how whatever powder they used compares to varget or IMR powder??or the burn rate is their powder a fast powder or a slow powder? Then you use the powder you purchased which you don't mention at all. adn you load cartridges at the same grains? Which powder burns faster the one you bought or the one from Wolf? I would be willing to bet that if you called the factory rep from wolf and asked him if he would do the same thing you did, I bet the answer would be a big no. Would any ammunition manufacturer do that? Personally I would not, I may not have been reloading as many years as some here, but on the other hand I take safety extremely seriously. |
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A question or 2 for ya here, you say that you pulled bullets from wolf ammo correct? and then you also put heavier bullets on top of the wolf factory powder, is this correct? Yes
Ok here for starters do you know exactly what powder they were using at that time those rounds came off the line, do you know how whatever powder they used compares to varget or IMR powder??or the burn rate is their powder a fast powder or a slow powder? NO I did not use the varget in those 5 cases only the powder from the wolf cases. But i shoot alot of milsurp type firearms. Some of the milsurp ammo is loaded really hot or could go the other way, For example Turk 8mm ammo is way to hot for my hakim. I pull the bullets and then load a few, shoot them over a crono and find a good mid load. Same here If i were going to pull black box wolf apart solely to reload using the heavier bullet you would start low and work up over a crono till you found the sweet spot. I was not going to reload these to fire on a regular basis. I just needed a few to get scope on target. Then you use the powder you purchased which you don't mention at all. adn you load cartridges at the same grains? Which powder burns faster the one you bought or the one from Wolf? There was only wolf powder in these 5 wolf cases @ 23.0gr factory load not mine. Next after getting scope on target i start the ladder test. I load wcc mil spec cases starting low 24.0 and hitting 27.2 Over crono, every case inspected immediately after each firing for signs of over pressure all together there were 17 cases . With the 62gr bullets in the wolf cases with the factory powder at fac load 23.0 the fps got near 2700. Military load for these bullets is around 3000fps. I find that the varget @ 26.0 is what my rifle likes At 26.0 speed will be around 2900 fps I spread everything out to make this more readable. AeroE |
| Thanks AeroE This post got alittle off track. I was wondering why the steel case shells were so far away while the higher pressure rounds wer dropping to my side. RJbishop answered that and that's probably what's going on. Sorry if i was not clear people in my explanation. Thanks RJ |
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Ok I think I understand what you are doing here. You took the wolf ammo pulled the bullets and made sure the powder charge was even on all of them using only the powder that they put into it. Also you put a heavier bullet on top of some of them.
Granted I can see that some of the mil surp ammo is on the hot side, but then I guess I am wondering why not just get a 500 or a 650 and reload a bunch of your own that are more accurate? I am going to guess here for a moment that you have a kinetic puller and a scale and a press at least. To me I think it would be easier to load your own for accuracy or plinking (whichever you prefer at the time) than it would be to load your own loads that work better for your particular gun. Granted that is just my thoughts there. Sorry about all that, to me it sounded like you were using your own powder charge based on the factory loaded one. Oh fyi for ya all you have to do is hit the quote button and you can type in your answers within the quote just in a different color. be easier than copy and pasting. |
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Quoted:
Hey all, Went to the range this morning. to sight in my PA compact scope. Brought some wolf 55gr and some wolf I replaced their 55 with my 62gr. The powder charge from wolf was 23.0gr but I found a few down near 22.3. Made them all 23.0. The wolf cases ejected back from me at about 5:00 and 7 to 10 feet. Average velocity for the wolf was 2650. After sight in at 100yds I started my ladder test with varget. Started at 24gr and went up .02 for an ending of 27.2 No problem with overpressure. Anyways to the point. FPS started around 2700 and ended at 3011. I am using wcc brass and they all ended up off to my side at 3:00 and 3 feet away. This does not seem right. My rifle is a Colt hbar match target 20" original bolt parts. What you think. Bad idea to replace the 55 gr bullet with a heavier bullet on an unknown factory powder. I'm glad you were not hurt or your gun damaged. If you want to reload, start with known components and use published data. Please educate yourself on proper reloading practises. Good luck. |
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