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Posted: 9/4/2024 7:24:53 PM EDT
hi,
anyone know who may manufacture "heavier than normal" buffers? have persistent bounce/hammer follow w/ s.s. my total recip. mass is around 23oz (13.3 bolt & 10oz kaw buffer) and still have this happen. (7.5in suppressed bbl. carb. tube & st. carb. spring ) using 147gr sub ammo 905fps. any suggestions? |
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Posted: 9/4/2024 7:30:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: scottMO]
[#1]
Duplicate
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Posted: 9/4/2024 7:32:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: scottMO]
[#2]
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Posted: 9/4/2024 7:39:59 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By scottMO: Up to 8.1oz on some of these: https://www.primaryarms.com/pistol-caliber-carbines/buffer-weights/pricelevel1/13.46to112.15 10oz here https://kakindustry.com/9mm-carbine-buffer-extended-heavy 12oz here https://heavybuffers.com/ar15carbine.html someone else offered up the 12oz 9QT from heavybuffers. may call them an ask about, thanks. |
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Posted: 9/4/2024 11:18:16 PM EDT
[#4]
I've been itching to try the Maxim Def roller delayed pcc buffer. You can try it and report back. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/5/2024 8:02:06 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dogrobber13: I've been itching to try the Maxim Def roller delayed pcc buffer. You can try it and report back. https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Maxim-Defense-RDB-review/15-780933/&page=4 |
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Posted: 9/6/2024 9:24:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1168RGR]
[#6]
If you’re having the bolt bounce out of battery, causing light strikes resembling hammer follow, you need a buffer that uses moveable weights. VLTOR A5 SH lineup probably has your answer. You may (or may not) need to remove the biasing spring that is inside of them. Most 9mm buffers are solid, because bolt bounce isn’t a problem for PCCs usually. Because semi. However, it’s not a super common problem in auto, either, so I’m curious what’s the real root cause here.
You already have more than enough mass to prevent any malfunctions caused purely by inadequate mass. |
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Posted: 9/6/2024 9:39:53 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1168RGR: If you’re having the bolt bounce out of battery, causing light strikes resembling hammer follow, you need a buffer that uses moveable weights. VLTOR A5 SH lineup probably has your answer. You may (or may not) need to remove the biasing spring that is inside of them. Most 9mm buffers are solid, because bolt bounce isn’t a problem for PCCs usually. i am using a 10.3 K.V. buffer. (heaviest kv makes) called to see if it is indeed solid and they tell me it is not. tungsten weights, with very sm. spacers that move inside. at least that is what they told me. i asked them that when i shake the buffer, you cant hear/feel any movement inside. they said that was because of the spacers, but they still move. if you know any different for sure...let me know. Angstadt Arms makes a 6.3oz dead-blow 9mm that is specifically made for f/a running. you think any help with this one? |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 9/6/2024 9:42:59 AM EDT
[#8]
Which bolt? Is the bolt weighted? Most bolts you can add weight in the rear portion that is held by a pin.
That might be enough. I use a 15 ounce bolt with a 7 ounce buffer and have not had any problem with bounce. I'm no Jerry Miculek on the trigger tho 
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Posted: 9/6/2024 9:58:41 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By s4s4u: Which bolt? Is the bolt weighted? Most bolts you can add weight in the rear portion that is held by a pin. That might be enough. I use a 15 ounce bolt with a 7 ounce buffer and have not had any problem with bounce. I'm no Jerry Miculek on the trigger tho foxtrot mike 13.3 colt spec bolt. 10oz buffer. 23.3 total recip. weight. cant use the original cmmg 9mm bolt w/ their ramped weight unless i mill a portion of the ramp off (it interferes with the lever of the s.s. |
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Posted: 9/6/2024 9:59:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1168RGR]
[#10]
There’s enough mass. I’m currently using 20oz total with a fulltime suppressed gun with the same barrel length. Its curious that you’re having a bolt bounce problem at all, though. If you’re trying to use a product or technique that doesn’t involve a sear trip lever inside, that might be your problem….no mechanical control of hammer timing.
I’m not sure about those buffers, but I know that the Vltor ones have moving weights. A cheap thing to try would be a KVP spacer (2.5oz) stacked between your bolt assembly and a regular 5.56 buffer. |
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Posted: 9/6/2024 10:04:50 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1168RGR: There’s enough mass. I’m currently using 20oz total with a fulltime suppressed gun with the same barrel length. Its curious that you’re having a bolt bounce problem at all, though. If you’re trying to use a product or technique that doesn’t involve a sear trip lever inside, that might be your problem….no mechanical control of hammer timing. I’m not sure about those buffers, but I know that the Vltor ones have moving weights. A cheap thing to try would be a KVP spacer (2.5oz) stacked between your bolt assembly and a regular 5.56 buffer. spacer was my next try...we`ll see. |
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Posted: 9/6/2024 10:25:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1168RGR]
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lx2008: spacer was my next try...we`ll see. If that’s the case, less mass, not more, will increase bolt velocity, closing faster, and loaning that time to the hammer. But you’d better make sure that the bolt ramp geometry will prevent OOB. Of course, even then, there is a minimum safe threshold for mass in a blowback gun. I know that 20oz is safe with subs and a .45 silencer. Below that, I’m not sure. I think the Scorp or AK-P use like 17oz…don’t remember for sure. But they work safely suppressed. Good luck. |
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Posted: 9/6/2024 10:35:41 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1168RGR: A thought occurs to me; if you don’t have a sear trip lever (I don’t know anything about the s.s.), it is much more likely that you are outrunning the gun and having hammer follow, than bolt bounce, since that’s an abnormal problem to have with a blowback gun. If that’s the case, then the only thing preventing an out of battery kaboom is the bolt geometry preventing the hammer from squaring up to the firing pin. If that’s the case, less mass, not more, will increase bolt velocity, closing faster, and loaning that time to the hammer. But you’d better make sure that the bolt ramp geometry will prevent OOB. Of course, even then, there is a minimum safe threshold for mass in a blowback gun. I know that 20oz is safe with subs and a .45 silencer. Below that, I’m not sure. I think the Scorp or AK-P use like 17oz…don’t remember for sure. But they work safely suppressed. Good luck. that is exactly what another person told me. that it was outrunning the gun. i did try a 5.4oz buffer but it did the same. ill maybe try a little less...and see what happens. had this exact same problem when doing the same with a spikes .22 dedicated conv. yrs ago. the guy at spikes said to put in reduced power hammer/trigg./disco springs. ran like gang busters after that. not sure if same thing but i might try. |
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Posted: 9/6/2024 12:13:16 PM EDT
[#14]
You need to talk to Rudy at Macon Armory @Mad-Machinist
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Posted: 9/6/2024 4:37:50 PM EDT
[#15]
Macon Arms dead blow buffer and carbine spring.
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Posted: 9/6/2024 6:21:05 PM EDT
[#16]
Imma unsubscribe now so I don’t have to see a series of the same recommendation.
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Posted: 9/7/2024 10:55:57 PM EDT
[#17]
Solid buffers are part of the problem......cartridge protrusion is another. There needs to be a slight gap between the bolt and barrel when a round is loaded. Combine the gap with a moveable weight buffer and a stock 5,56 carbine spring and it will stop.
Rudy |
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Posted: 9/8/2024 8:43:05 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mad-Machinist: Solid buffers are part of the problem......cartridge protrusion is another. There needs to be a slight gap between the bolt and barrel when a round is loaded. Combine the gap with a moveable weight buffer and a stock 5,56 carbine spring and it will stop. Rudy thnx & i`ll try to find a 6oz or so buffer that has moving weights. |
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Posted: 9/8/2024 9:14:29 AM EDT
[#19]
@Droppoint
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Posted: 9/8/2024 1:01:01 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1168RGR: There’s enough mass. I’m currently using 20oz total with a fulltime suppressed gun with the same barrel length. Its curious that you’re having a bolt bounce problem at all, though. If you’re trying to use a product or technique that doesn’t involve a sear trip lever inside, that might be your problem….no mechanical control of hammer timing. I’m not sure about those buffers, but I know that the Vltor ones have moving weights. A cheap thing to try would be a KVP spacer (2.5oz) stacked between your bolt assembly and a regular 5.56 buffer. link to the buffer spacer? cant find it. |
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Posted: 9/8/2024 1:17:01 PM EDT
[#21]
Have you tried a different buffer spring? Maybe try a Tubbs 308 spring instead of the carbine spring. As mentioned, you already have quite a bit of mass.
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Posted: 9/8/2024 1:27:19 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mike92GT: Have you tried a different buffer spring? Maybe try a Tubbs 308 spring instead of the carbine spring. As mentioned, you already have quite a bit of mass. yes & also an KV XP too. would`nt even get more than 1rd to go w/ that. when i put a std. spring in...it would go 2 then one w/ light primer strike. |
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Posted: 9/10/2024 3:40:08 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lx2008: link to the buffer spacer? cant find it. |
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Posted: 9/10/2024 10:41:10 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dogrobber13: I've been itching to try the Maxim Def roller delayed pcc buffer. You can try it and report back. I have 3 of them, they can be pretty awesome, but ammo seems to be more of the feel than any other buffer I have used. Heavy bullets and fast powders are my favorite combo with them. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 9/11/2024 9:50:47 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chevrofreak: I have 3 of them, they can be pretty awesome, but ammo seems to be more of the feel than any other buffer I have used. Heavy bullets and fast powders are my favorite combo with them. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chevrofreak: Originally Posted By dogrobber13: I've been itching to try the Maxim Def roller delayed pcc buffer. You can try it and report back. I have 3 of them, they can be pretty awesome, but ammo seems to be more of the feel than any other buffer I have used. Heavy bullets and fast powders are my favorite combo with them. How is the charging force needed with the Maxim? That is one thing that keeps coming up in my research and I am honestly not sure how much I think it really matters. Especially if it can get decent to good recoil feel but in a carbine or shorter buffer tube. |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 3:37:02 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SlowTA: How is the charging force needed with the Maxim? That is one thing that keeps coming up in my research and I am honestly not sure how much I think it really matters. Especially if it can get decent to good recoil feel but in a carbine or shorter buffer tube. It takes more force than anything else I have. My girlfriend cannot charge it without putting some serious effort into it. I do not have that problem. |
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Posted: 9/12/2024 4:08:10 AM EDT
[#27]
There is some great info here - I run this setup in my EPC-9 and it makes quite the difference in recoil.
Gentle recoil system |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 9/12/2024 2:01:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SlowTA]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KYSPIKED: There is some great info here - I run this setup in my EPC-9 and it makes quite the difference in recoil. Gentle recoil system A friend of mine put that in his ar9 and it was a game changer for the recoil. The only things I don’t like about it is that it uses a longer buffer tube and it’s kind of expensive. Those aside I am waiting on the spring and weights to put in my fm9. I would like to make a super short ar9 for a backpack and that’s why I was wondering about the Maxim. I think I’m gonna build another at some point and use that. |
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