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7/29/2010 11:19:54 AM EDT
Ive just bought a 22-250 ackley and have never fire formed any brass.  anyone have any good suggestions on how to fire form and some good loads to start with.  ive never done this so any information is helpful.  hoping to go to range tomorrow and fire form if i get enough information today.
  thanks
7/29/2010 11:28:08 AM EDT
[#1]
Load it up moderately with old powder and old bullets.  OAL to touch the lands to set head space and plink away.  Might test a few for the correct amount of powder to get full shoulder form.
7/29/2010 1:41:34 PM EDT
[#2]
Here are the two methods for fireforming bottleneck cases from 6mmbr.com:

Fire-Forming .243

As always, fire-forming is done by one of two methods. Most of you will fire form the brass with loaded .243 Winchester. Ackley always said to use factory loads, or reload equivalent ammo to have a "snappy" load to form the case out properly. You never want to use a reduced load to form with, since you need the pressure to form properly. If your rifle is chambered properly, you should feel a slight amount of resistance as you close the bolt on a new piece of brass. If you do not get this "feel", you may need to seat the bullets out to .010" to .015" into the lands to make sure that the base of the case stays in solid contact with the bolt face.

The fire-forming method I have been using more lately employs medium burn-rate pistol powders and Cream of Wheat. I will start by loading about 10 grains of SR4756 or Unique into the case, and then I fill the case up to the body shoulder junction with Cream of Wheat. I will then take a large pinch of polyester filler, which can be found at any fabric supply store, or sewing department, such as at Wal-Mart. I will then take the pinch of polyester and load it into the case so that it fills up the shoulder area of the case effectively making sure that the filler is held securely over the powder for fire-forming. During the fire-forming, I like to dry brush with a nylon bore brush every 10 to 15 rounds. This removes any loose debris from filler that has accumulated. [Editors Note: Do NOT seat a bullet using this "Cream of Wheat" method. You can cap the case with a bit of wax to keep everything in place. However, Bob finds the wax is not necessary if the polyester filler is placed securely.]


The 22-250AI is a popular mod.  For this improved case, the front of the shoulder height from rim face and  shoulder diameter (minor diameter) is the same.  The angle of the shoulder or conical section changes from 28 degrees to 40 degrees half-angle.  Trim length and length of neck is the same for both.  So, with the case against the bolt face, the body of the case will get stretched forward and circumferentially some.   Some folks anneal the shoulder after fireforming to extend case life.  Let me know if you need the case drawings.  The improvement comes mainly from increased powder volume.  If you use the second method, you might want to back down on the Unique a bit.
7/29/2010 3:54:46 PM EDT
[#3]
ok thanks for the info guys.  And yes CCW if you could send the case dementions that would be appreciated.
7/29/2010 4:02:50 PM EDT
[#4]
I thought the cool thing about the Ackley was you could fire factory ammo in it all day, and just get fire formed brass out of it. Maybe I missed something.
7/29/2010 4:55:39 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
I thought the cool thing about the Ackley was you could fire factory ammo in it all day, and just get fire formed brass out of it. Maybe I missed something.


You are correct and it is essentially method 1 above.  I think the only additional tweak proposed there is to attempt to assure the case head is up against the bolt, to minimize rearward stretch.  This rearward stretch can occur if you have head space pushed out by the ejector pin and/or the firing pin, so when the case grips the chamber walls then stretches to the rear to meet the bolt face during peak chamber pressure, the stretch will occur in the more sensitive area of the case body, the section near the case head.

7/29/2010 5:11:14 PM EDT
[#6]
When I fireform 30-30 into 7-30 Waters (after a trip through a FL die to resize the neck), I use up old lots of 7mm bullets, use starting loads for odd lots of powder I have laying around, and LR primers I have removed from other loads.

In other words, I use up leftovers.
7/30/2010 2:34:27 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I thought the cool thing about the Ackley was you could fire factory ammo in it all day, and just get fire formed brass out of it. Maybe I missed something.


You are correct and it is essentially method 1 above.  I think the only additional tweak proposed there is to attempt to assure the case head is up against the bolt, to minimize rearward stretch.  This rearward stretch can occur if you have head space pushed out by the ejector pin and/or the firing pin, so when the case grips the chamber walls then stretches to the rear to meet the bolt face during peak chamber pressure, the stretch will occur in the more sensitive area of the case body, the section near the case head.



I found this excerpt about the Ackley design over on gunsmith.com.   I think it explains it much better than I could.

The most important innovation that Ackley brought to the “improved” concept was with regard to bottleneck rimless cases. He chose the simplest of mechanical solutions to insuring that his improved cases would safely fire factory loads. He shortened the chamber by .004” (4/1000 of an inch). Because the factory case is then a crush fit between the bolt face and the junction of the neck and shoulder, proper headspace is insured. This is why Ackley prescribes setting the barrel back on such cases. You will note that if you follow these simple guidelines there is no confusion about the headspace measurements for “Ackley Improved” designs in rimless or rebated cases.

Some confusion seems to arise out of this headspace issue. Folks get confuse between the set up for a rimless bottleneck case and a rimmed or belted case when discussing ‘Improved” chamberings. Rimless and rebated cases are the case designs which always require a barrel set back to be properly headspaced. As mentioned in the paragraph above headspace on an Ackley Improved rimless or rebated designs is .004” shorter than standard. The shorter headspace means you have no choice but to set the barrel back if you want correct headspace.

There are special Ackley, go-gauges, they have the same shoulder angle as the parent case but they are shorter. This ingenious method effectively controls headspace with factory cartridges in the new larger, ‘Improved’ chamber. The factory cartridge or parent go-gauge becomes the no-go for the new chamber. This system works because the parent go-gauge is .004” longer than the Ackley gauge, exactly the same as the difference between the parent go-gauge and no-go gauge. Example: 30-06 Ackley Improved go-gauge is used with the standard 30-06 go-gauge as the no-go gauge.

The only place the factory case will touch in the new chamber that matters is the bolt face and the junction of the neck and shoulder on the case. It will actually slightly crush the case shoulder when you close the bolt on the factory round. If you eject such a case unfired you will normally see a shiny area on the shoulder where the case was crushed just a little. This crush fit maintains proper headspace during the fire-forming process.
7/30/2010 3:33:25 PM EDT
[#8]
I think Parker O. Ackley would have been a helluva guy to hang out with.
7/30/2010 3:56:14 PM EDT
[#9]
After you fire form the brass do you have to anneal the cases afterwards?
7/30/2010 4:31:20 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
After you fire form the brass do you have to anneal the cases afterwards?


If you are planning to fireforming with "factory" loads as recommended, then the brass after fireforming is 1X.  If you do enough cases, then the recycle rate will be low and probably no bad effects will show up without annealing.  The stretched areas will probably be limited to the top of the body and the shoulder.  I have seen some folks anneal down to the shoulder/body intersection, but if you get annealing heat onto the body there is an increased danger of getting it too soft.  IMO, annealing would be reserved for the neck, as one would do with any multiple fired bottle neck cartridge to extend the reload count, unless splits start showing up around the body, shoulder intersection.
7/30/2010 4:32:56 PM EDT
[#11]
I had actually thought about having my .300 H&H gun bumped out to .300 Ackley, but if I wanted that kind of performance, I'd have just gotten it chambered for .300 Weatherby...
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