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Posted: 3/6/2013 5:52:38 AM EDT
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So i have noticed with loading 10mm that the brass size varies and this impacts crimping. I wanted to see the various ways others perform this process to see just what i can perhaps incorporate into my process. keep in mind i'm having to seat / crimp same process cause well....that's what i have.
Sizing - do you measure the bottom, middle, upper portion to get to a particular size or just size and see if it case gages? Lube or no lube? If you lube do you pretty much run it like rifle and go clean it first prior to powder and bullet seating? seat/crimp - with various lengths in my once fired i've had to measure everything then sort to groups of like sizes then run it. I'm not sure but maybe they will all get to near like sizes once they are fired in MY pistol? or should I just bite the bullet and trim them all once to get them like size? I've also noticed a few where they won't gage and found that they have a dent in one side of the head (extractor pin??) i can file this area down then presto it gages. any issue doing this? brass looks great other than the 1 ding from whomever fired it. insights appreciated. I was hoping this would not be as intense as loading rifle. but it doesnt seem to be throw it in the press and run without lubing and your done type of thing either. (that or i just don't know the shortcuts, perhaps there is a die that pushes it all back together to make it a certain size?) |
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.seat/crimp - with various lengths in my once fired i've had to measure everything then sort to groups of like sizes then run it. I'm not sure but maybe they will all get to near like sizes once they are fired in MY pistol? or should I just bite the bullet and trim them all once to get them like size? I've also noticed a few where they won't gage and found that they have a dent in one side of the head (extractor pin??) i can file this area down then presto it gages. any issue doing this? brass looks great other than the 1 ding from whomever fired it. .. Bite the bullet and get a Lee Factory Crimp Die. They produces a collet crimp so exact case length is not important. I have one for all the calibers I load just so I don't have to deal with the length issue. |
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.seat/crimp - with various lengths in my once fired i've had to measure everything then sort to groups of like sizes then run it. I'm not sure but maybe they will all get to near like sizes once they are fired in MY pistol? or should I just bite the bullet and trim them all once to get them like size? I've also noticed a few where they won't gage and found that they have a dent in one side of the head (extractor pin??) i can file this area down then presto it gages. any issue doing this? brass looks great other than the 1 ding from whomever fired it. .. Bite the bullet and get a Lee Factory Crimp Die. They produces a collet crimp so exact case length is not important. I have one for all the calibers I load just so I don't have to deal with the length issue. Unless you have some they are like hens teeth so that's not an option at this time |
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.seat/crimp - with various lengths in my once fired i've had to measure everything then sort to groups of like sizes then run it. I'm not sure but maybe they will all get to near like sizes once they are fired in MY pistol? or should I just bite the bullet and trim them all once to get them like size? I've also noticed a few where they won't gage and found that they have a dent in one side of the head (extractor pin??) i can file this area down then presto it gages. any issue doing this? brass looks great other than the 1 ding from whomever fired it. .. Bite the bullet and get a Lee Factory Crimp Die. They produces a collet crimp so exact case length is not important. I have one for all the calibers I load just so I don't have to deal with the length issue. Is the FCD for 10mm different? The pistol cartridge FCD's I've seen are all either Taper or Roll crimp dies with a carbide sizer ring to "post size" near the base of the cartridge. The rifle cartridge FCD's I have are all of the collet type. |
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Sizing - do you measure the bottom, middle, upper portion to get to a particular size or just size and see if it case gages? Lube or no lube? If you lube do you pretty much run it like rifle and go clean it first prior to powder and bullet seating? I don't measure anything at this point, I full-length resize using carbide dies and no lube. Adjust the sizing die per the manufacturers specs to where it just touches the shellholder.
seat/crimp - with various lengths in my once fired i've had to measure everything then sort to groups of like sizes then run it. I'm not sure but maybe they will all get to near like sizes once they are fired in MY pistol? or should I just bite the bullet and trim them all once to get them like size? Trim them all at once to the same length, problem solved. I've also noticed a few where they won't gage and found that they have a dent in one side of the head (extractor pin??) i can file this area down then presto it gages. any issue doing this? brass looks great other than the 1 ding from whomever fired it. Sorry, can't answer this as I've never used a gage (I know, heresy, right?) insights appreciated. I was hoping this would not be as intense as loading rifle. but it doesnt seem to be throw it in the press and run without lubing and your done type of thing either. (that or i just don't know the shortcuts, perhaps there is a die that pushes it all back together to make it a certain size?) If you full-length resize and the finished rounds don't fit in your gage, I'd suspect your seating and crimping die isn't adjusted properly. I've always followed the instructions that come with the dies (usually RCBS) and it's worked for me. |
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Is the FCD for 10mm different? The pistol cartridge FCD's I've seen are all either Taper or Roll crimp dies with a carbide sizer ring to "post size" near the base of the cartridge. The rifle cartridge FCD's I have are all of the collet type. AFAIK all Lee Factory Crimp Dies (note that is a proper name - the RCBS crimp die is not a 'Factory Crimp Die') are the collet type - including the pistol calibers (and I have 3 pistol caliber dies). |
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So i have noticed with loading 10mm that the brass size varies and this impacts crimping. The last Starline brass I bought was all well within .001" of each other in length... I got tired of measuring trying to find one that might be 'off'. Win brass is not even in the same league in MY opinion. That crap would 'need' trimming for consistency. |
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Is the FCD for 10mm different? The pistol cartridge FCD's I've seen are all either Taper or Roll crimp dies with a carbide sizer ring to "post size" near the base of the cartridge. The rifle cartridge FCD's I have are all of the collet type. AFAIK all Lee Factory Crimp Dies (note that is a proper name - the RCBS crimp die is not a 'Factory Crimp Die') are the collet type - including the pistol calibers (and I have 3 pistol caliber dies). Do you have a picture of a pistol cartridge Lee Factory Crimp Die with a collet? The 45 acp Lee Factory Crimp Die in my hand just has a floating carbide sleeve for the crimp, no collet. |
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So i have noticed with loading 10mm that the brass size varies and this impacts crimping. The last Starline brass I bought was all well within .001" of each other in length... I got tired of measuring trying to find one that might be 'off'. Win brass is not even in the same league in MY opinion. That crap would 'need' trimming for consistency. Auto pistol cartridges headspace on the mouth, trimming is important. |
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The 45 acp Lee Factory Crimp Die in my hand just has a floating carbide sleeve for the crimp, no collet. That 'floating carbined sleeve' has 4 fingers which produce the collet crimp. as the brass is pushed up into die and pressure is applied to the bottom the four fingers come in at the same time and crimp the die collet style. It's rather simple and ingenious. Just make sure you keep it clean. If you start to hear a 'clicking' comming from the die then stop and clean it out with a wire brush, and a cotten swab with alchohol. |
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The 45 acp Lee Factory Crimp Die in my hand just has a floating carbide sleeve for the crimp, no collet. That 'floating carbined sleeve' has 4 fingers which produce the collet crimp. as the brass is pushed up into die and pressure is applied to the bottom the four fingers come in at the same time and crimp the die collet style. It's rather simple and ingenious. Just make sure you keep it clean. If you start to hear a 'clicking' comming from the die then stop and clean it out with a wire brush, and a cotten swab with alchohol. The sleeve has no fingers, its just a tube like a standard crimp die. The rifle cartridge Lee FCD's have the fingers and a tapered portion of the die that forces the fingers closed when it is squeezed against the shellholder. |
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The sleeve has no fingers, its just a tube like a standard crimp die. The rifle cartridge Lee FCD's have the fingers and a tapered portion of the die that forces the fingers closed when it is squeezed against the shellholder. I'll take a photo of on the pistol dies I have. It's been a while since I looked in the 9mm, but the .30 Carbine was used farily recently IIRC that had the fingers like the rifle dies. (yes in my house it's a pistol cartridge that feeds my Blackhawk). |
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i actually found the 10mm and 9mm on flea bay, while it wasnt the best price in the world it luckily was a buy it now for just a few bucks more. So guess i'll get to see how these do. one thing i'm reading is not only do they 'self adjust' to apply the proper crimp. What concerns me is they fit the case to ensure it feeds, so how many people are not setting their ies properly and this is the only thing that crunches it down to meet specs.
Seems you'd prefer to learn how to properly set the dies before it (or maybe its just my desire). Funny thing too in verbiage, the word crimp is used when talking about 'taper crimp' but from what i'm seeing the reality is that for auto feed your not applying a crimp (roll crimp) but rather a taper which in reality alll you are doing is removing the bell opened to seat the bullet thus returning it only to a straight wall state. should be called something like case wall taper. just an observation. 
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| The taper crimp does, or at least can, change the taper angle at the mouth versus the original case body taper depending on how far down you set your die. You can set it to just barely remove the bell, or you can set it more aggressively so that the mouth of the case actually bites into the bullet. Its not usually advisable to get too agressive with a crimp for autoloader cartridges because they headspace on the case mouth. |
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Lee Factory Crimp Die for a 45 ACP. They're different than the rifle dies, as knight-dive was describing. http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x388/forester2/outside_zpsdf386183.jpg http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x388/forester2/inside_zps22ab2291.jpg Yep my 9mm is just like that ^. The .30 carbine has the 4 fingers. |
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