Armory Sponsor
Posted: 1/12/2012 5:01:45 AM EDT
|
I just picked up my first Garand from Fedex lastnight. Springfield FG SN right above 2 million, ME of 2 and TE of 4. Very nice looking and I am happy.
However the Safety will not engage period. I remove the trigger housing and fully depress the hammer and it will flick back and forth no problem, return it to the gun, cock the hammer and no amount of force will engage the safety. Also, after inserting a clip fully, the bolt does not slam forward, I have to smack the charging handle with my palm to get it to move. After the first round is ejected, the bolt seems to cycle normally. It will not eject the clip. The last round does not fully eject from the rifle and the clip just sits in the magazine. This is direct from the CMP, I have not touched or disassembled anything apart from removing the trigger housing. I have looked at the different disassembly guides and I feel confident I can take apart and replace any warn or damaged part, I just wanted to get some opinions before I went any further. Trigger housing is all HRA if that matters Thanks for the help. |
|
Quoted:
I just picked up my first Garand from Fedex lastnight. Springfield FG SN right above 2 million, ME of 2 and TE of 4. Very nice looking and I am happy. However the Safety will not engage period. I remove the trigger housing and fully depress the hammer and it will flick back and forth no problem, return it to the gun, cock the hammer and no amount of force will engage the safety. If the trigger group is not fully locked in I beleive that can cause that problem. Also, after inserting a clip fully, the bolt does not slam forward, I have to smack the charging handle with my palm to get it to move. That's normal. After the first round is ejected, the bolt seems to cycle normally. It will not eject the clip. The last round does not fully eject from the rifle and the clip just sits in the magazine. There is a lever (pushed down by the clip) that may not be placed in the receiver right. I can't remember the part name but that is what caused mine not to eject. I'm going off of memory from years ago so don't hold me to that. This is direct from the CMP, I have not touched or disassembled anything apart from removing the trigger housing. I have looked at the different disassembly guides and I feel confident I can take apart and replace any warn or damaged part, I just wanted to get some opinions before I went any further. Trigger housing is all HRA if that matters Thanks for the help. Gave some answers in green above. I haven't owned a Garand (I've owned 8 or so) in awhile so my memory may be incorrect. Maybe someone else can give a better anwwer |
|
From what I understand the CMP is usually very helpful with troubleshooting problems. I would definitely call them.
This may help a bit also: M1 Troubleshooting Also go to Youtube and search "M1 Garand tilt test" and perform that test. If the op rod is out of spec or binding on the stock it can cause problems. +1 that having to smack the bolt forward on loading is totally normal. Good luck, you'll get it worked out. |
|
What kind of stock do you have? Aftermarket new? Anyways it sounds like the belly of the stock is too deep- the trigger assembly is too low, too much wood and the clamping action is too tight. Also check to see if your trigger guard is latchd, the tip hook at the rear of the trigger guard should not be just resting on the plate of the assembly, it should be hooked in. If you still have an HRA late style trigger guard the hook is just the bent tab at the back, earlier types had a milled hook.
Not ejecting the clip, sounds like a bad clip ejector spring. - hmmm double check and see if it's installed correctly, the clip ejector spring is also the spring for the safety. Should be wrapped around a post and the two legs pressed into a recess in the housing. The clip ejector spring is a very common problem for going weak. Not ejecting from the rifle is most likely a weak ejector spring. A weak one can just flop the empty around, I had a CMP field grade that just barely rolled them out, sometimes the returning op rod would pin the empty causing a stoppage. Really the best thing to do for the old garands is just go to Orion 7 and order a spring kit. Replace all the springs and that will fix 99% of all issues. Not sure about the safety issue though. If the spring is installed correctly then you have a stock fit issue. |
|
Quoted:
What kind of stock do you have? Aftermarket new? Anyways it sounds like the belly of the stock is too deep- the trigger assembly is too low, too much wood and the clamping action is too tight. Also check to see if your trigger guard is latchd, the tip hook at the rear of the trigger guard should not be just resting on the plate of the assembly, it should be hooked in. If you still have an HRA late style trigger guard the hook is just the bent tab at the back, earlier types had a milled hook. Not ejecting the clip, sounds like a bad clip ejector spring. - hmmm double check and see if it's installed correctly, the clip ejector spring is also the spring for the safety. Should be wrapped around a post and the two legs pressed into a recess in the housing. The clip ejector spring is a very common problem for going weak. Not ejecting from the rifle is most likely a weak ejector spring. A weak one can just flop the empty around, I had a CMP field grade that just barely rolled them out, sometimes the returning op rod would pin the empty causing a stoppage. Really the best thing to do for the old garands is just go to Orion 7 and order a spring kit. Replace all the springs and that will fix 99% of all issues. Not sure about the safety issue though. If the spring is installed correctly then you have a stock fit issue. Do you have a link to Orion 7 ? EDIT : Never mind, I found it Orion 7 |
|
Quoted:
What kind of stock do you have? Aftermarket new? Anyways it sounds like the belly of the stock is too deep- the trigger assembly is too low, too much wood and the clamping action is too tight. Also check to see if your trigger guard is latchd, the tip hook at the rear of the trigger guard should not be just resting on the plate of the assembly, it should be hooked in. If you still have an HRA late style trigger guard the hook is just the bent tab at the back, earlier types had a milled hook. Not ejecting the clip, sounds like a bad clip ejector spring. - hmmm double check and see if it's installed correctly, the clip ejector spring is also the spring for the safety. Should be wrapped around a post and the two legs pressed into a recess in the housing. The clip ejector spring is a very common problem for going weak. Not ejecting from the rifle is most likely a weak ejector spring. A weak one can just flop the empty around, I had a CMP field grade that just barely rolled them out, sometimes the returning op rod would pin the empty causing a stoppage. Really the best thing to do for the old garands is just go to Orion 7 and order a spring kit. Replace all the springs and that will fix 99% of all issues. Not sure about the safety issue though. If the spring is installed correctly then you have a stock fit issue. The stock is what it came with from the CMP, looks like a regular GI stock to me. Thanks for the link on the Orion website, they seem to be a much better value than Fulton Armory. As to the safety, I'm going to strip down the trigger housing tonight and put it back together. I've read that there can be some issues with the safety if it is not properly greased so I'll try that. From looking at it last night though, it almost appears the hammer does not stay cocked back far enough for the "spur" on the safety to latch over the hammer. Maybe even only 1/8" off but the safety just will not engage unless the trigger housing is out and I depress the hammer. I can't imagine it would be armory rebuilt and they wouldn't do a function test to verify the safety engages, so I assume I'm just overlooking something obvious? Thanks for all the helpful info so far guys. |
|
This type spring for the clip ejection:
This is the lever activated by the spring: 
That's called the follower rod. Those installed wrong could be the problem. But like was mentioned above, I bet it's got to do with the wood to receiver lock up. Now you got me wanting to look at another Garand. 
Let us know what fixes it. 
|
|
Sir, my suggestion would be do a complete teardown of the rifle and trigger group and clean and lube and while you have it down replace all the springs with a enhanced kit from Orion 7, what type of stock came with the rifle ? was it a USGI or CMP branded one if you don't have the trigger group locked in it will cause issues, the clip ejecting on the last round will not be as robust if you are using unfired cartridges or dummy rounds and the bolt not going forward on it's own after a fill clip is inserted is very common and actually how I prefer it on my Garands.
The trigger group is not tough to tear down the only PITA is the clip ejector spring, and the bolt can be done without a fancy tool all you need is a flat blade screwdriver and the corner of a vice. |
|
Thats what can happen when buying a Field Grade, you can have issues
Assisting the Op Rod forward is totally normal. After doing a complete tear down clean and lube with grease if you are still having issues, e-mail customer service explaining the problems and they will forward it to a Armorer |
|
Ok, update.
I tore the trigger assembly apart last night and greased the safety latch like crazy, after re-assembling it the safety does now in fact engage. I have a spring kit on order but that will not be here for a few days. The very last round on the clip still hangs up when being ejected. It seems that the clip is trying to eject before the last round of brass is ejected. this causes the clip to put upward pressure on the brass and as the bolt cycles, right at the point the cartridge should be ejected the clip starts to eject and pushes on the bottom of the cartridge, pinning it between the lip on the extractor, and the rear of the clip. I then have to retract the bolt fully, pull out the partially ejected cartridge, and remove the clip which is just resting in the magazine. I do not believe this to be an extraction/ejection issue as the first 7 round all eject beautifully. I'll give the CMP a call today and see if they can help as well. |
|
No need to call CMP, sounds you need a spring kit. Worn springs will cause timing issues
Clip latch and Op Rod spring. Stay away from extra power Wolff Op Rod springs as they can cause Short stroking Worn parts can cuase your issues but 99% of the time its worn springs First thing I do with any Garand I get is replace the Op Rod spring |
|
Quoted:
No need to call CMP, sounds you need a spring kit. Worn springs will cause timing issues Clip latch and Op Rod spring. Stay away from extra power Wolff Op Rod springs as they can cause Short stroking Worn parts can cuase your issues but 99% of the time its worn springs First thing I do with any Garand I get is replace the Op Rod spring Go to Orion 7 and get a spring kit. Well worth the money and the kit is not that expensive. |
|
Quoted:
Ok, update. I tore the trigger assembly apart last night and greased the safety latch like crazy, after re-assembling it the safety does now in fact engage. I have a spring kit on order but that will not be here for a few days. The very last round on the clip still hangs up when being ejected. It seems that the clip is trying to eject before the last round of brass is ejected. this causes the clip to put upward pressure on the brass and as the bolt cycles, right at the point the cartridge should be ejected the clip starts to eject and pushes on the bottom of the cartridge, pinning it between the lip on the extractor, and the rear of the clip. I then have to retract the bolt fully, pull out the partially ejected cartridge, and remove the clip which is just resting in the magazine. I do not believe this to be an extraction/ejection issue as the first 7 round all eject beautifully. I'll give the CMP a call today and see if they can help as well. If you load some sized cases in the clip and cycle those you will see how much mo robust the extraction is on cases and you will find out that the clip will eject fine especially after you replace the clip ejector spring, also while you have it apart look at the stock and look for any shiny spots where parts are rubbing and sand as necessary this is only usually need on non usgi stocks, keep us posted. You will find out a tuned M1 is such a pleasure to shoot and is one of my favorite rifles. |
|
Quoted:
Ok, update. I tore the trigger assembly apart last night and greased the safety latch like crazy, after re-assembling it the safety does now in fact engage. I have a spring kit on order but that will not be here for a few days. The very last round on the clip still hangs up when being ejected. It seems that the clip is trying to eject before the last round of brass is ejected. this causes the clip to put upward pressure on the brass and as the bolt cycles, right at the point the cartridge should be ejected the clip starts to eject and pushes on the bottom of the cartridge, pinning it between the lip on the extractor, and the rear of the clip. I then have to retract the bolt fully, pull out the partially ejected cartridge, and remove the clip which is just resting in the magazine. I do not believe this to be an extraction/ejection issue as the first 7 round all eject beautifully. I'll give the CMP a call today and see if they can help as well. On the left side of the receiver is the clip latch. It allows you to eject the clip before it is empty. The spring underneath it keeps enough tension on the clip so it does not eject prematurely. Yours is likely weak. When you get the spring kit in and replace it with all the rest the problem should be resolved. You can pull the spring, stretch it some and put it back to do a quick test if you want before the spring kit gets in. If you have not seen it before the CMP has a nice section on their website showing detail strip instructions for the Garand. |
|
Sounds like you're figuring it out. Not sure what's going on without having it in my hands.
As far as the stock goes, how hard is it to close the trigger guard when assembling the rifle? Does it swing with oh, 8 lbs of force or so, or does it take like 25 pounds of really pushing to get it to close? If it's the latter I'd bet a stock issue. Otherwise I'm thinking it's a trigger assembly issue. Perhaps the trigger assembly is mis assembled. A trigger can be put in wrong with the rear pointy projection on the outside of the housing instead of resting on the inside floor but that wouldn't let the trigger work, I don't think it would just mess up the safety. A small guide book like Walt Kulek's "The M1 Garand Complete Assembly Guide" is inexpensive enough to invest in. |
Armory Sponsor