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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - outback needs cleaning (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 12/24/2013 12:13:53 AM EDT
| My outback is about full. Gemtech isnt servicing these anymore, ed's red doesnt do much. What are my options? Its all aluminum so the dip is kinda out. I looked at stalking rhino but im not sure he is in business anymore the web site hasnt been updated in a while. Is there anything i can do? |
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Gemtech won't service them anymore???? WTF?
Earlier this year I looked into getting mine updated to the new version but they said that service is no longer available, but they would still service my outback Dear Gemtech Customers, Many of you have asked whether we will offer the Outback upgrade service that we have in the past. At this time we have decided to discontinue that service indefinitely. The firearms industry as a whole has seen unprecedented demand this past year for many reasons. Gemtech has seen incredible growth over the past year. We have expanded into a larger facility and tripled our production capacity and demand is still outstripping our pace of production. As such, we are dedicating all components to the completion of new suppressors to meet this demand. We simply do not have the parts available to offer the upgrade service at this time. We will continue to support the Outback and Outback-II for repairs, as we do with all of our legacy products. Should your Outback or Outback-II suppressor become damaged we will make every effort to repair it in a timely manner for you. Thank You GEMTECH 7/26/2013 |
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My outback is about full. Gemtech isnt servicing these anymore, ed's red doesnt do much. What are my options? Its all aluminum so the dip is kinda out. I looked at stalking rhino but im not sure he is in business anymore the web site hasnt been updated in a while. Is there anything i can do? Unscrew the caps,push out the baffles and clean them.I did the same to my Outback. |
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Unscrew the caps,push out the baffles and clean them.I did the same to my Outback. Quoted:
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My outback is about full. Gemtech isnt servicing these anymore, ed's red doesnt do much. What are my options? Its all aluminum so the dip is kinda out. I looked at stalking rhino but im not sure he is in business anymore the web site hasnt been updated in a while. Is there anything i can do? Unscrew the caps,push out the baffles and clean them.I did the same to my Outback. He may not feel comfortable taking apart a sealed can. |
| You might check to see if it is OK to use on aluminum, but take a look at CLP Powder Blast. It cleans the junk off a nasty AR-15 bolt in no time, so it might work on a suppressor. My .22 suppressor is all steel, so I just threw it in the sonic cleaner for about 20 minutes when it needed a cleaning. Took the paint off, too, but it needed to be repainted anyway. :) |
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He may not feel comfortable taking apart a sealed can. Quoted:
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My outback is about full. Gemtech isnt servicing these anymore, ed's red doesnt do much. What are my options? Its all aluminum so the dip is kinda out. I looked at stalking rhino but im not sure he is in business anymore the web site hasnt been updated in a while. Is there anything i can do? Unscrew the caps,push out the baffles and clean them.I did the same to my Outback. He may not feel comfortable taking apart a sealed can. Outbacks aren't sealed. |
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Yeah im down for trying to take it apart. I was more worried ill damage something trying to get the baffles out. I wish there was a good machine shop local that could put 2 dimples in the front of the can so i could easily unscrew the cap
As far as servicing i asked about the cleaning. Maybe if i induce a baffle strike and send it in they could clean it and repair it. But im not too fond of bullets striking something inches from my hands |
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Quoted: Outbacks aren't sealed. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: My outback is about full. Gemtech isnt servicing these anymore, ed's red doesnt do much. What are my options? Its all aluminum so the dip is kinda out. I looked at stalking rhino but im not sure he is in business anymore the web site hasnt been updated in a while. Is there anything i can do? Unscrew the caps,push out the baffles and clean them.I did the same to my Outback. He may not feel comfortable taking apart a sealed can. Outbacks aren't sealed. Outback II-D models are disassemble. Pre-D models were sealed.
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Outbacks aren't sealed. Quoted:
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My outback is about full. Gemtech isnt servicing these anymore, ed's red doesnt do much. What are my options? Its all aluminum so the dip is kinda out. I looked at stalking rhino but im not sure he is in business anymore the web site hasnt been updated in a while. Is there anything i can do? Unscrew the caps,push out the baffles and clean them.I did the same to my Outback. He may not feel comfortable taking apart a sealed can. Outbacks aren't sealed. The current outback isn't, ttbomk the previous models were all sealed. |
| Mine is an original Outback.They just used loc tight on the ends.Bake it in the oven at 450,and they'll unscrew.I used a socket that was a snug fit inside the tube and pushed the baffles out with a vise.Once I moved the stack about a 1/2 inch I was able to push them out with hand pressure.If Gemtech was still cleaning them I would have sent it back. |
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Mine is an original Outback.They just used loc tight on the ends.Bake it in the oven at 450,and they'll unscrew.I used a socket that was a snug fit inside the tube and pushed the baffles out with a vise.Once I moved the stack about a 1/2 inch I was able to push them out with hand pressure.If Gemtech was still cleaning them I would have sent it back. Yes, they are just held together with blue loctite. If you get the baffles out, (without damaging the tube) we can re-stack it for 200.00 delivered (includes new end cap, 6 new baffles, and return shipping). Send us ALL the parts, we have to have everything, then we can re-stack it and send it back to you. But we need everything in hand, when we do the replacement of your baffles. We just can't remove the baffles from the tube. But we can reassemble your CLEAN Outback once the old baffles are removed. Hope this helps? Joey |
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Yes, they are just held together with blue loctite. If you get the baffles out, (without damaging the tube) we can re-stack it for 200.00 delivered (includes new end cap, 6 new baffles, and return shipping). Send us ALL the parts, we have to have everything, then we can re-stack it and send it back to you. But we need everything in hand, when we do the replacement of your baffles. We just can't remove the baffles from the tube. But we can reassemble your CLEAN Outback once the old baffles are removed. Hope this helps? Joey Quoted:
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Mine is an original Outback.They just used loc tight on the ends.Bake it in the oven at 450,and they'll unscrew.I used a socket that was a snug fit inside the tube and pushed the baffles out with a vise.Once I moved the stack about a 1/2 inch I was able to push them out with hand pressure.If Gemtech was still cleaning them I would have sent it back. Yes, they are just held together with blue loctite. If you get the baffles out, (without damaging the tube) we can re-stack it for 200.00 delivered (includes new end cap, 6 new baffles, and return shipping). Send us ALL the parts, we have to have everything, then we can re-stack it and send it back to you. But we need everything in hand, when we do the replacement of your baffles. We just can't remove the baffles from the tube. But we can reassemble your CLEAN Outback once the old baffles are removed. Hope this helps? Joey Hey man,I'll put it in the mail tomorrow! You want the empty tube with the end caps unscrewed,baffles out,right? |
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I have one of these disassembly tools, came with my Element2. I works great for disassembly of a stacked baffle can. $60 is a little pricey I suppose, but it gives me better piece of mind vs. a hammer & vise.
rimfire disassembly tool |
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Mine is an original Outback.They just used loc tight on the ends.Bake it in the oven at 450,and they'll unscrew.I used a socket that was a snug fit inside the tube and pushed the baffles out with a vise.Once I moved the stack about a 1/2 inch I was able to push them out with hand pressure.If Gemtech was still cleaning them I would have sent it back. cool beans. how often have you taken yours apart for cleaning and how did you clean the baffles after disassembly? |
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Yes, they are just held together with blue loctite. If you get the baffles out, (without damaging the tube) we can re-stack it for 200.00 delivered (includes new end cap, 6 new baffles, and return shipping). Send us ALL the parts, we have to have everything, then we can re-stack it and send it back to you. But we need everything in hand, when we do the replacement of your baffles. We just can't remove the baffles from the tube. But we can reassemble your CLEAN Outback once the old baffles are removed. Hope this helps? Joey Quoted:
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Mine is an original Outback.They just used loc tight on the ends.Bake it in the oven at 450,and they'll unscrew.I used a socket that was a snug fit inside the tube and pushed the baffles out with a vise.Once I moved the stack about a 1/2 inch I was able to push them out with hand pressure.If Gemtech was still cleaning them I would have sent it back. Yes, they are just held together with blue loctite. If you get the baffles out, (without damaging the tube) we can re-stack it for 200.00 delivered (includes new end cap, 6 new baffles, and return shipping). Send us ALL the parts, we have to have everything, then we can re-stack it and send it back to you. But we need everything in hand, when we do the replacement of your baffles. We just can't remove the baffles from the tube. But we can reassemble your CLEAN Outback once the old baffles are removed. Hope this helps? Joey $200 to CLEAN IT. 
I'm sorry guys but that is absurd. If I was in OP's shoes, I would drop an extra $300 and buy a new can from a company that will take care of their customer. |
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And why does the OP have to get it apart? Wouldn't GemTech have better resources to do this? That's what gets me... They tell him "if YOU can get it apart without damaging it" Glad I went with Silencerco who stands behind their product and takes care of their customers. |
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That's what gets me... They tell him "if YOU can get it apart without damaging it" Glad I went with Silencerco who stands behind their product and takes care of their customers. Quoted:
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And why does the OP have to get it apart? Wouldn't GemTech have better resources to do this? That's what gets me... They tell him "if YOU can get it apart without damaging it" Glad I went with Silencerco who stands behind their product and takes care of their customers. Yea, this thread is eye opening. GemTech is now off my list of possible suppressor purchases. |
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That's what gets me... They tell him "if YOU can get it apart without damaging it" Glad I went with Silencerco who stands behind their product and takes care of their customers. Quoted:
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And why does the OP have to get it apart? Wouldn't GemTech have better resources to do this? That's what gets me... They tell him "if YOU can get it apart without damaging it" Glad I went with Silencerco who stands behind their product and takes care of their customers. SilencerCo didn't exist when I got my Outback.I'd already taken it apart several times,disassembly took 2 minutes. |
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Yea, this thread is eye opening. GemTech is now off my list of possible suppressor purchases. Gemtech has been at the top of my list of suppressor companies that I was looking to do business with. I don't understand the change they seem to have made here recently when it comes to customer service. |
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Gemtech has been at the top of my list of suppressor companies that I was looking to do business with. I don't understand the change they seem to have made here recently when it comes to customer service. Quoted:
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Yea, this thread is eye opening. GemTech is now off my list of possible suppressor purchases. Gemtech has been at the top of my list of suppressor companies that I was looking to do business with. I don't understand the change they seem to have made here recently when it comes to customer service. Nobody knows what's going on. |
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Nobody knows what's going on. Quoted:
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Yea, this thread is eye opening. GemTech is now off my list of possible suppressor purchases. Gemtech has been at the top of my list of suppressor companies that I was looking to do business with. I don't understand the change they seem to have made here recently when it comes to customer service. Nobody knows what's going on. Actually a response was posted in regards to this situation. EPA came in with lead testing and made it cost prohibitive to continue the Outback/Outback II program for rebuilds. It is disappointing since I've pointed several friends into Outback II's and have had 3 rebuilds myself since 2006. I got them upgraded to Outback II D and am careful to clean them often. Takes some of the fun out of it =( |
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Actually a response was posted in regards to this situation. EPA came in with lead testing and made it cost prohibitive to continue the Outback/Outback II program for rebuilds. Bummer, I was unaware of that. I just bought a IID, but it's unlikely I'll ever need to clean it. |
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Gemtech has lost their key customer service guys (like Kel) and management no longer cares about their customers. It is really sad to see. I own 9 Gemtech cans and wouldn't buy another with their current regime.  I assure you this is not the case. Any of you can contact me directly, with any questions what so ever - [email protected] |
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Bummer, I was unaware of that. I just bought a IID, but it's unlikely I'll ever need to clean it. Quoted:
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Actually a response was posted in regards to this situation. EPA came in with lead testing and made it cost prohibitive to continue the Outback/Outback II program for rebuilds. Bummer, I was unaware of that. I just bought a IID, but it's unlikely I'll ever need to clean it. The whole point of the Outback-IID is so that you can disassemble and clean it yourself and not depend on the manufacturer. You will need to do it on a regular basis (like every 200-250 rounds) so that it comes apart easily. The rear mount is Loctited in place and should not be removed. Everything else comes apart easily. |
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Question: are all of the Outback-IID baffles made of identical material? Yes and no. From the factory, the first is stainless with the rest aluminum. This has several effects; it increases weight, and minimally affects reduction (about 1 dB). While I have some stainless first baffles that I can use, I generally use all aluminum unless specifically requested otherwise. There are probably more good reasons for using all aluminum than there are for using a stainless first baffle including strength of materials, heat dissipation, lack of potential galvanic corrosion, weight, etc. In rimfire, the possibility of really high (over 800F) temperatures is non-existent. In my experience with .22LR baffles, the longevity of stainless is not much greater than that of good quality aluminum. |
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Gemtech, let me make sure I understand this. Years ago I bought an Outback II as it was a quiet can with a good reputation. AAC offered the Pilot at the same time which was NOT a sealed can and could be cleaned. However, it was made clear to me on Subguns that Gemtech would replace / upgrade the baffels for a nominal fee if and when it became necessary. I believe it was Dr. Dater that would post there in regards to things like this. Are you now stating that you will not upgrade these cans or if I want to I have to figure out how to get it open and apart myself before sending it in?
This is how I am reading this thread and I am a little disappointed if this is the case. I am getting ready to buy a 5.56 can and another .22 can this week for other projects and Gemtech may have just assured they are not in the running. |
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I have my original manual that came with the can. Here are some key quotes:
"As a general rule (and contrary to popular opinion), suppressors have a longer life if no attempt is made at cleaning.... Any other attemp at cleaning [they were discussing blowing it out with a compressor] may well shorten the life of the suppressor. It it becomes necessary, the suppressor can be rebuilt to factory new condition at a reasonable cost.... We discourage any attempt at disassembly of the unit. Internal parts orientation is critical to the efficient operation of the suppressor, and reassembly requires special tooling and jiga available only at the factory. Any attempt at disassembly will void the warranty." |
| Saabdrifter, I think we have gotten our answer. You and I posted today before lunch and Joey from Gemtech has posted in multiple threads in this sub-forum today. Obviously they are intentionally chosing to not answer this question. I am dropping off a check for an AAC M4-2000 tomorrow at a local dealer. |
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Saabdrifter, I think we have gotten our answer. You and I posted today before lunch and Joey from Gemtech has posted in multiple threads in this sub-forum today. Obviously they are intentionally chosing to not answer this question. I am dropping off a check for an AAC M4-2000 tomorrow at a local dealer. Gemtech is no longer offering the Outback-II cleaning/upgrade service at this time. Joey |
| Joey, what is the logic on this? I specifically bought the can due to that very reason vs. the AAC pilot. My owners manual clearly states that you will do it and that was the key selling point for a sealed can when I bought it. I think this speaks a vast amount about Gemtech and a company deciding it is not going to stand behind a product. |
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Joey, what is the logic on this? I specifically bought the can due to that very reason vs. the AAC pilot. My owners manual clearly states that you will do it and that was the key selling point for a sealed can when I bought it. I think this speaks a vast amount about Gemtech and a company deciding it is not going to stand behind a product. Personal Safety issues, lead levels in the shop (Only high when using a boring bar & lathe to cut out the stuck baffles). So until further notice, this service has been suspended. I am pushing for some kind of alternative method, but to date have not found a better way to handle this upgrade. For those that have the ability to take apart there own Outbacks, we can restack them for 200 bucks delivered. But not everyone has that ability, to do that without possible damage to the suppressor. This is a VERY important topic to me, and we have always tried to have the best CS in the industry. Once we come up with an alternative option, we will post it here on AR-15.com for all to see and take advantage of. No this is not any kind of an answer that you want right now, but good or bad either way, this is the answer I have right now. Joey |
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Joey I understand this is not your doing but I hope your boss understands what this is telling customers. I do not know how many Outback II cans you sold that were sealed but your company promised on discussion boards they would upgrade and clean them and you also put it in writing that you would service them. At the time, the cost quoted on Subguns was $75 for a rebuild. Now you won't honor the very service you promised. I would not have purchased this can but for the written promise of service. I am not kidding, this has been the final straw. My local dealer has both Gemtech and AAC in stock. I am paying for an M4-2000 tomorrow.
I attend lots of machine gun shoots and have a business that caters to many in the NFA market. I will be sure to let people know that Gemtech is not standing behind their written promise to service the Outback series. This would be a perfect situation for a bored attorney to turn into a class action suit. Simple: people bought Outback II cans that are sealed vs other manufacturers who offered non-sealed cans because Gemtech stated they would service the can for a nominal fee. If Gemtech really wanted to fix this, they could service the cans out there and make them -D models, they could offer credits on the old cans towards purchase of new models or they could replace the cans they will not service. This seems like the cost to remedy would be minimal vs. the ill will your company is generating. |
| Lead levels in the shop? Really? Did anyone take this into consideration when they started idk, building suppressor's ? The SOT that I got my 2D from and the one I use now refuse to order from Gemtech due to customer service reasons. I always wondered why. Good luck Joey you seem like a diligent guy. But I will no longer purchase from a company that refuses to stand by a written agreement with the customer. I'm truly disappointed as I enjoy my 2D and consider it a great balance of quality and price. |
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Personal Safety issues, lead levels in the shop (Only high when using a boring bar & lathe to cut out the stuck baffles). So until further notice, this service has been suspended. I am pushing for some kind of alternative method, but to date have not found a better way to handle this upgrade. For those that have the ability to take apart there own Outbacks, we can restack them for 200 bucks delivered. But not everyone has that ability, to do that without possible damage to the suppressor. This is a VERY important topic to me, and we have always tried to have the best CS in the industry. Once we come up with an alternative option, we will post it here on AR-15.com for all to see and take advantage of. No this is not any kind of an answer that you want right now, but good or bad either way, this is the answer I have right now. Joey I think we see that this is the answer right now. I hope you can see that is why some old customers feel the CS at Gemtech is no longer up to standards. Hopefully, you will find a way to take care of your past customers (as GT always did), allowing you to attract future customers when times are no longer pro-seller as they are now. |
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Gemtech is no longer offering the Outback-II cleaning/upgrade service at this time. Joey Quoted:
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Saabdrifter, I think we have gotten our answer. You and I posted today before lunch and Joey from Gemtech has posted in multiple threads in this sub-forum today. Obviously they are intentionally chosing to not answer this question. I am dropping off a check for an AAC M4-2000 tomorrow at a local dealer. Gemtech is no longer offering the Outback-II cleaning/upgrade service at this time. Joey So Gemtech is no longer cleaning/servicing the Outback 2? Not rebuilt,but just the cleaning that was advertised at the time I purchased my Outback 2. When kel or Phil was saying "you don't clean your cars muffler; you can just send it in to be cleaned for a fee". It doesn't matter if you have been in busyness the longest if you don't stand behind your products and promises anymore. That was the selling point of your product. Your company name and reputation for taking care of your customers. 
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I just don't buy that they cannot come up with a solution. There are several routes they could take right now. This is not an all inclusive list, but these could be done and are done by other manufacturers. If I am not mistaken AAC will convert a Pilot to a Pilot 2
1. Service the cans as per the original agreement with customers. 2. Upgrade existing Outback II cans to -D specifications for a nominal fee. 3. Replace existing Outback II cans with new cans with a credit for the original can since they will no longer service them. |
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Personal Safety issues, lead levels in the shop (Only high when using a boring bar & lathe to cut out the stuck baffles). So until further notice, this service has been suspended. I am pushing for some kind of alternative method, but to date have not found a better way to handle this upgrade. For those that have the ability to take apart there own Outbacks, we can restack them for 200 bucks delivered. But not everyone has that ability, to do that without possible damage to the suppressor. This is a VERY important topic to me, and we have always tried to have the best CS in the industry. Once we come up with an alternative option, we will post it here on AR-15.com for all to see and take advantage of. No this is not any kind of an answer that you want right now, but good or bad either way, this is the answer I have right now. Joey It looks like the lead dust is causing the problem for can servicing. I can only imagine what a headache it would be to isolate a lathe from the rest of the shop to contain the lead, protect the operator from exposure and then clean it up at the end of the day all under the friendly gaze of OSHA and the EPA. I'll bet Gemtech didn't see that coming until after marketing the can & the "we'll clean it" warranty. Not an envious position to be in. Having said that, what the hell were they thinking when they made a sealed rimfire can? ANYONE who uses one knows they get dirty, crusty, lead filled and nasty beyond all hope after a couple of thousand rounds. Offering a sealed rimfire can that needs to be sent back to the manufacturer for cleaning is like selling cars with welded oil plugs, just send them back to GM for an oil change every 5000 miles. 
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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - outback needs cleaning (Page 1 of 3)
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