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Posted: 1/8/2015 2:17:16 PM EDT
| I don't reload. A friend has offered to load some .223 for me for my precision AR. He has Hodgdon CFE and BL-C(2) powders. They will likely be paired with Hornady V-Max 45 grain and 55 grain bullets or Hornday 55 grain fmjs. Which powder would be a better choice for precision work? |
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Quoted:
I don't reload. A friend has offered to load some .223 for me for my precision AR. He has Hodgdon CFE and BL-C(2) powders. They will likely be paired with Hornady V-Max 45 grain and 55 grain bullets or Hornday 55 grain fmjs. Which powder would be a better choice for precision work? Sir, WADR your definition of precision escapes me. I've reloaded thousands of rounds in this cartridge that could be called precision given the fact that they are sub MOA at distances out to and including 600yds. The most important facet of what I define as precision ammunition is bullet selection but since my criteria is only sub MOA I'm usually satisfied with the more popular Sierra MK bullets mostly 77gr or the Berger 80gr VLD. The twist rate of your rifle barrel is an important factor in bullet selection. When reloading fired cases case prep becomes a very important factor in the consistency of the cartridge, meaning group size, and contributes greatly to low ES and SD across the chronograph. Primer selection can also be an important factor as is the proper seating of them. To answer your question directly I would say that the choice of powder is probably the least important factor given the range of choices available. As long as the actual charge weights are reasonably consistent with charge weight variation less than .1gr plus or minus. My choice of powder for this cartridge would not include either of the two you mention, rather I prefer VV N540. HTH, 7zero1. |
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Quoted: To answer your question directly I would say that the choice of powder is probably the least important factor given the range of choices available. As long as the actual charge weights are reasonably consistent with charge weight variation less than .1gr plus or minus. My choice of powder for this cartridge would not include either of the two you mention, rather I prefer VV N540. HTH, 7zero1. Agree that powder choice is probably one of the least important factors. Even charge weight accuracy isn't that important if the load has been developed properly. To see an example of this, check out my post on OCW loading here. Of the two powders you selected I would lean towards CFE223. |
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[b]
Of the two powders you selected I would lean towards CFE223. Excellent. My friend is just donating labor. We're not working up loads. He's going to load up 100 rounds or so just to be nice. I'm sending him some Hornady V-Max 55 grain flat base bullets because I know these work well in my barrel (1-8 twist; 20") from Hornady factory loads. I'm also going to send him some 50 grain V-Max boat tails because I want to try them. I shoot at 100 and 200 yards. By "precision" I mean I'm trying to shoot for group size, not just punching paper, ringing steel, etc. Do you all have any other suggestions to pass along to my friend who will load the rounds? |
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Quoted:
Excellent. My friend is just donating labor. We're not working up loads. He's going to load up 100 rounds or so just to be nice. I'm sending him some Hornady V-Max 55 grain flat base bullets because I know these work well in my barrel (1-8 twist; 20") from Hornady factory loads. I'm also going to send him some 50 grain V-Max boat tails because I want to try them. I shoot at 100 and 200 yards. By "precision" I mean I'm trying to shoot for group size, not just punching paper, ringing steel, etc. Do you all have any other suggestions to pass along to my friend who will load the rounds? Quoted:
[b]
Of the two powders you selected I would lean towards CFE223. Excellent. My friend is just donating labor. We're not working up loads. He's going to load up 100 rounds or so just to be nice. I'm sending him some Hornady V-Max 55 grain flat base bullets because I know these work well in my barrel (1-8 twist; 20") from Hornady factory loads. I'm also going to send him some 50 grain V-Max boat tails because I want to try them. I shoot at 100 and 200 yards. By "precision" I mean I'm trying to shoot for group size, not just punching paper, ringing steel, etc. Do you all have any other suggestions to pass along to my friend who will load the rounds? How is your buddy going to know how many grains of CFE223 to put in the case? The 55 VMAX is a great bullet, capable of very good accuracy, but one powder load may be better than 1/2 MOA, while another powder load may be worse than 2 MOA. -ZA |
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Quoted:
Excellent. My friend is just donating labor. [b]We're not working up loads. He's going to load up 100 rounds or so just to be nice. I'm sending him some Hornady V-Max 55 grain flat base bullets because I know these work well in my barrel (1-8 twist; 20") from Hornady factory loads. I'm also going to send him some 50 grain V-Max boat tails because I want to try them. I shoot at 100 and 200 yards. By "precision" I mean I'm trying to shoot for group size, not just punching paper, ringing steel, etc. Do you all have any other suggestions to pass along to my friend who will load the rounds? Quoted:
Of the two powders you selected I would lean towards CFE223. Excellent. My friend is just donating labor. [b]We're not working up loads. He's going to load up 100 rounds or so just to be nice. I'm sending him some Hornady V-Max 55 grain flat base bullets because I know these work well in my barrel (1-8 twist; 20") from Hornady factory loads. I'm also going to send him some 50 grain V-Max boat tails because I want to try them. I shoot at 100 and 200 yards. By "precision" I mean I'm trying to shoot for group size, not just punching paper, ringing steel, etc. Do you all have any other suggestions to pass along to my friend who will load the rounds? You need to work up loads. I am having a problem accepting that he is loading for your rifle, but having him load for your rifle without even practicing basic reloading safety is just not a good idea. Your groups will not be good if you just pick a load somewhere in the book and load 100 rounds. Many factors come into play. My advice is for you to go to your friends house, do a load workup yourself using his guidance and equipment. Shoot the loads from the lowest to the highest looking for pressure signs. Shoot for groups or do a OCW, however you do it, just start low and work up. Different chambers shoot different loads differently. Read the thread mentioned above about the OCW. Even experienced reloaders work up loads every time they change something about their load. Please take caution. Your rifle isn't worth saving a few dollars on ammo. |
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Quoted: How is your buddy going to know how many grains of CFE223 to put in the case? The 55 VMAX is a great bullet, capable of very good accuracy, but one powder load may be better than 1/2 MOA, while another powder load may be worse than 2 MOA. -ZA Quoted: Quoted: Of the two powders you selected I would lean towards CFE223. Excellent. My friend is just donating labor. We're not working up loads. He's going to load up 100 rounds or so just to be nice. I'm sending him some Hornady V-Max 55 grain flat base bullets because I know these work well in my barrel (1-8 twist; 20") from Hornady factory loads. I'm also going to send him some 50 grain V-Max boat tails because I want to try them. I shoot at 100 and 200 yards. By "precision" I mean I'm trying to shoot for group size, not just punching paper, ringing steel, etc. Do you all have any other suggestions to pass along to my friend who will load the rounds? How is your buddy going to know how many grains of CFE223 to put in the case? The 55 VMAX is a great bullet, capable of very good accuracy, but one powder load may be better than 1/2 MOA, while another powder load may be worse than 2 MOA. -ZA I'm not saying it can't happen, but I have never witnessed a rifle/powder/bullet combination capable of sub half-minute accuracy shoot worse than 2 MOA just by changing the powder charge, at least not within reasonable min/max ranges. All the posters suggesting you do a load workup are right. You won't get precision by loading blind. |
| As I said, I don't reload. However, my understanding is that there are pretty well established maximum and minimum powder charges you can load. Within those established safe ranges, in an ideal world we could work up loads. But that ain't happening. This is a do the best with what you've got situation. I was just hoping for a suggestion from someone who might have worked up a load that worked well for them with this powder using the same or similar bullets and a similar barrel. |
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Quoted:
I'm not saying it can't happen, but I have never witnessed a rifle/powder/bullet combination capable of sub half-minute accuracy shoot worse than 2 MOA just by changing the powder charge, at least not within reasonable min/max ranges. All the posters suggesting you do a load workup are right. You won't get precision by loading blind. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Of the two powders you selected I would lean towards CFE223. Excellent. My friend is just donating labor. We're not working up loads. He's going to load up 100 rounds or so just to be nice. I'm sending him some Hornady V-Max 55 grain flat base bullets because I know these work well in my barrel (1-8 twist; 20") from Hornady factory loads. I'm also going to send him some 50 grain V-Max boat tails because I want to try them. I shoot at 100 and 200 yards. By "precision" I mean I'm trying to shoot for group size, not just punching paper, ringing steel, etc. Do you all have any other suggestions to pass along to my friend who will load the rounds? How is your buddy going to know how many grains of CFE223 to put in the case? The 55 VMAX is a great bullet, capable of very good accuracy, but one powder load may be better than 1/2 MOA, while another powder load may be worse than 2 MOA. -ZA I'm not saying it can't happen, but I have never witnessed a rifle/powder/bullet combination capable of sub half-minute accuracy shoot worse than 2 MOA just by changing the powder charge, at least not within reasonable min/max ranges. All the posters suggesting you do a load workup are right. You won't get precision by loading blind. I'm with JR on this one. Pick a reasonable book load, especially one that the manual flags as their most accurate, and an accurate gun will probably shoot it pretty well. Maybe not the best, but well. And the difference between "best" and "well" is probably fairly small at that. |
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Quoted: As I said, I don't reload. However, my understanding is that there are pretty well established maximum and minimum powder charges you can load. Within those established safe ranges, in an ideal world we could work up loads. But that ain't happening. This is a do the best with what you've got situation. I was just hoping for a suggestion from someone who might have worked up a load that worked well for them with this powder using the same or similar bullets and a similar barrel. |
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Quoted:
As I said, I don't reload. However, my understanding is that there are pretty well established maximum and minimum powder charges you can load. Within those established safe ranges, in an ideal world we could work up loads. But that ain't happening. This is a do the best with what you've got situation. I was just hoping for a suggestion from someone who might have worked up a load that worked well for them with this powder using the same or similar bullets and a similar barrel. Just because a load worked up and fires well and within safe pressures in my barrel means nothing about your barrel. Reloading manuals are general rules, not laws. Always start low and work up. ALWAYS. Is your rifle worth it? More importantly, is your face or life worth it? Just buy factory ammo. |
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Quoted:
As I said, I don't reload. However, my understanding is that there are pretty well established maximum and minimum powder charges you can load. Within those established safe ranges, in an ideal world we could work up loads. But that ain't happening. This is a do the best with what you've got situation. I was just hoping for a suggestion from someone who might have worked up a load that worked well for them with this powder using the same or similar bullets and a similar barrel. You've asked for a powder for "precision work" and you're basically going to make the equivalent of a plinker round. Why even bother using a decent bullet? The others are right, if you want precision, you need to work up a load for your rifle. Otherwise, you have a plinker at best. |
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Quoted:
You've asked for a powder for "precision work" and you're basically going to make the equivalent of a plinker round. Why even bother using a decent bullet? The others are right, if you want precision, you need to work up a load for your rifle. Otherwise, you have a plinker at best. Quoted:
Quoted:
As I said, I don't reload. However, my understanding is that there are pretty well established maximum and minimum powder charges you can load. Within those established safe ranges, in an ideal world we could work up loads. But that ain't happening. This is a do the best with what you've got situation. I was just hoping for a suggestion from someone who might have worked up a load that worked well for them with this powder using the same or similar bullets and a similar barrel. You've asked for a powder for "precision work" and you're basically going to make the equivalent of a plinker round. Why even bother using a decent bullet? The others are right, if you want precision, you need to work up a load for your rifle. Otherwise, you have a plinker at best. That's what went through my head when I read this thread. I don't agree with loading blind like this. I ALWAYS work my loads up. Regardless if I'm loading blasting ammo or precision ammo. Like others have said, what works in one persons gun, may not work in your gun. Not to be an asshole or anything, but if I were you, I would just buy factory ammo. Seriously, for the safety of yourself and others around you just in case something goes wrong. Either work up some safe loads that function good or just buy ammo. You could even do just a simple load work up to find a combo you like for target/blasting ammo. Also, if loading for blasting reasons, I would find a different bullet. Those V Max bullets give me some pretty good accuracy. As always, YMMV. |
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Quoted:
As I said, I don't reload. However, my understanding is that there are pretty well established maximum and minimum powder charges you can load. Within those established safe ranges, in an ideal world we could work up loads. But that ain't happening. This is a do the best with what you've got situation. I was just hoping for a suggestion from someone who might have worked up a load that worked well for them with this powder using the same or similar bullets and a similar barrel. If your friend is smart, he will use minimum published charge weights for your gun. They might or might not shoot worth a hoot. Some minimal work up is required simply to determine whether the ammunition is safe, besides worrying about whether it is accurate. Load data is a guideline, especially the maximum published charge weights. Different combinations of brass, primers, bullets and primers with a maximum load might shoot okay in one gun, and develop too much pressure for a different gun often enough that it's something to always look for when switching guns. If you are smart, you won't shoot reloads assembled by someone else, especially since you are not equipped to judge whether the reloader is competent. |
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