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Posted: 3/19/2014 7:59:42 AM EDT
| Totally noob question, but is it illegal to posses a sbr/pistol upper if you dont have a stamp or a pistol lower? |
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Totally noob question, but is it illegal to posses a sbr/pistol upper if you dont have a stamp or a pistol lower? If you have no AR15 lower you can have a short barrel in your possession. If you have pistol lower or a registered SBR lower you can have a short barrel in your possession. If you only have a AR15 RIFLE lower you can NOT have a short barrel in your possession. If youre building a SBR highly recommend building it on a pistol lower and then registering the pistol. If youre poor a$$ broke like me and decide to register a AR15 rifle lower you already own then you will have to wait for the tax stamp before you can buy the short barrel. 
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What is a PISTOL lower? None of my lowers state pistol, rifle or anything else. Lower without a stock. There are lowers that are marked pistol, but is not a requirement of any kind. You can use one for a rifle build, and use a non-marked lower for a pistol build. You can build an AR pistol out of any lower that's never been built as a rifle. You can then go from pistol -> rifle -> pistol, you just can't go rifle -> pistol. My two look like this: 
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As long as any lower you have is already assembled into an AR or pistol, no. The issue is when you have a lower that's not accounted for, it's called constructive intent. OMG, so much fail with this statement!! For starters, it's constructive possession. And it basically means you cannot possess the parts needed to assemble an SBR, unless you have a legal purpose for the parts. If u own a pistol or SBR you can have 7 billion spare short uppers. If you have a rifle, but no pistol or SBR, you cannot possess a short upper, regardless if your rifle(s) have appropriate rifle lengths uppers. Possessing the short uppers with no legal use for them is in and of itself an SBR. |
I have been working on this for a day or so, It is in draft form but hopefully this can answer some questions once complete. If anyone has improvements to add shoot me a PM. I worked on it late last night so there might be some errors. Final version will be more clean, I think I will add text description for each box. Green check marks mean legal, red X will get you in Club Fed.
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I have been working on this for a day or so, It is in draft form but hopefully this can answer some questions once complete. If anyone has improvements to add shoot me a PM. I worked on it late last night so there might be some errors. Final version will be more clean, I think I will add text description for each box. Green check marks mean legal, red X will get you in Club Fed. <a href="http://s267.photobucket.com/user/Cramerica1/media/NFAGuideDraft1_zpsa6be60c2.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii307/Cramerica1/NFAGuideDraft1_zpsa6be60c2.jpg</a> I don't see why the bottom left one is a no go? |
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I don't see why the bottom left one is a no go? Quoted:
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I have been working on this for a day or so, It is in draft form but hopefully this can answer some questions once complete. If anyone has improvements to add shoot me a PM. I worked on it late last night so there might be some errors. Final version will be more clean, I think I will add text description for each box. Green check marks mean legal, red X will get you in Club Fed. <a href="http://s267.photobucket.com/user/Cramerica1/media/NFAGuideDraft1_zpsa6be60c2.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii307/Cramerica1/NFAGuideDraft1_zpsa6be60c2.jpg</a> I don't see why the bottom left one is a no go? It is the same as the one above it but adds a stripped lower. No spare rifle length uppers but plenty of short uppers. |
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It is the same as the one above it but adds a stripped lower. No spare rifle length uppers but plenty of short uppers. Quoted:
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I have been working on this for a day or so, It is in draft form but hopefully this can answer some questions once complete. If anyone has improvements to add shoot me a PM. I worked on it late last night so there might be some errors. Final version will be more clean, I think I will add text description for each box. Green check marks mean legal, red X will get you in Club Fed. <a href="http://s267.photobucket.com/user/Cramerica1/media/NFAGuideDraft1_zpsa6be60c2.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii307/Cramerica1/NFAGuideDraft1_zpsa6be60c2.jpg</a> I don't see why the bottom left one is a no go? It is the same as the one above it but adds a stripped lower. No spare rifle length uppers but plenty of short uppers. Doesn't matter. Once you have a legal way to assemble a SBR upper (registered lower) then it doesn't matter how many SBR uppers you have. Or whatever combination of parts you have on hand. The chart is a good idea... |
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I gotta disagree on the following:
3rd down on left - pistol AR with spare stock. Nothing wrong having a stock and a pistol AR as long as you don't actually put the stock on the pistol with that short upper. 2nd down in the middle - nothing wrong with the stripped lower and a short barrel. They're just pistol build parts, and without an upper there's no way to even assemble that combo in any manner legal or illegal. Bottom on the left - nothing wrong with a short upper and a stripped lower.. again, pistol build parts unless actually assembled illegally. The short upper can go on the SBR or the pistol. |
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It is the same as the one above it but adds a stripped lower. No spare rifle length uppers but plenty of short uppers. Quoted:
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I have been working on this for a day or so, It is in draft form but hopefully this can answer some questions once complete. If anyone has improvements to add shoot me a PM. I worked on it late last night so there might be some errors. Final version will be more clean, I think I will add text description for each box. Green check marks mean legal, red X will get you in Club Fed. <a href="http://s267.photobucket.com/user/Cramerica1/media/NFAGuideDraft1_zpsa6be60c2.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii307/Cramerica1/NFAGuideDraft1_zpsa6be60c2.jpg</a> I don't see why the bottom left one is a no go? It is the same as the one above it but adds a stripped lower. No spare rifle length uppers but plenty of short uppers. Just proves how dumb the NFA logic and rules are. |
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Just proves how dumb the NFA logic and rules are. Quoted:
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I have been working on this for a day or so, It is in draft form but hopefully this can answer some questions once complete. If anyone has improvements to add shoot me a PM. I worked on it late last night so there might be some errors. Final version will be more clean, I think I will add text description for each box. Green check marks mean legal, red X will get you in Club Fed. <a href="http://s267.photobucket.com/user/Cramerica1/media/NFAGuideDraft1_zpsa6be60c2.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii307/Cramerica1/NFAGuideDraft1_zpsa6be60c2.jpg</a> I don't see why the bottom left one is a no go? It is the same as the one above it but adds a stripped lower. No spare rifle length uppers but plenty of short uppers. Just proves how dumb the NFA logic and rules are. Exactly. I had this idea a while ago and finally got around to making a chart. I made a few obvious go or no go ones then it got very convoluted. I bet if 5 ATF agents were given this task to complete individually you would have 5 different charts. This is also only AR flavored. One could make one for every sort of battle rifle/shotgun. I do think that Labeling each box with a number and text as to why each is go or no go is good though. |
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So how does the ATF know whether my lower was a pistol before it was a rifle, or if it was a rifle before it was a pistol? All lowers are logged when they leave the factory and logged in when they are received by the dealer... ATF would just need to make a phone call on the serial number on the lower from either place. |
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So how does the ATF know whether my lower was a pistol before it was a rifle, or if it was a rifle before it was a pistol? Quoted:
So how does the ATF know whether my lower was a pistol before it was a rifle, or if it was a rifle before it was a pistol? For a stripped lower, they all start as an "other". It's the honor system. Would they ever know if you put a stock and a 16" upper on it in your basement, then immediately removed it and put a pistol buffer tube and 12" upper? Not unless you posted a pic or told somebody. But, that doesn't make it legal. Quoted:
All lowers are logged when they leave the factory and logged in when they are received by the dealer... ATF would just need to make a phone call on the serial number on the lower from either place. This has nothing to do with it, as it's an "other", not a pistol or rifle. |
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Would they ever know if you put a stock and a 16" upper on it in your basement, then immediately removed it and put a pistol buffer tube and 12" upper? Not unless you posted a pic or told somebody. But, that doesn't make it legal. My point is, if I am at the range with my pistol, and I am approached by popo, ATF, etc., will they just take my word that it was created as a pistol? I have no desire to break the law, nor do I have a desire to get a felony charge. |
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My point is, if I am at the range with my pistol, and I am approached by popo, ATF, etc., will they just take my word that it was created as a pistol? I have no desire to break the law, nor do I have a desire to get a felony charge. Quoted:
Would they ever know if you put a stock and a 16" upper on it in your basement, then immediately removed it and put a pistol buffer tube and 12" upper? Not unless you posted a pic or told somebody. But, that doesn't make it legal. My point is, if I am at the range with my pistol, and I am approached by popo, ATF, etc., will they just take my word that it was created as a pistol? I have no desire to break the law, nor do I have a desire to get a felony charge. I don't think they have any choice. There's no way for them to prove otherwise. I took the extra (and legally unnecessary) step of building both of mine on lowers that are marked pistol...for no reason other than dealing with any local uninformed LEO. I could've easily built a rifle out if the pistol lower if I wanted. |
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