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Posted: 1/26/2014 7:35:18 PM EDT
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so I've got about 1k rounds through the shrike now, mostly with no issue other than some tight links. So far all ive shot through it was m855 that I bought already in links long ago, with ammo prices these days I decided to try a couple different types of cheaper ammo and ran into some problems. first thing I tried was around 50 wolf 55grn with the polymer coating, it seemed to cycle fine but I had around 15 failures where the nose of the round was jammed and cut into by the lip of the barrel in the feed ramp causing the bullet to be pushed into the case a little and have an obvious gouge in the nose, this also happened with silver bear, wolf brass and barnal ammos, with the failure rate being about the same.
I hand cycled a couple of each and noticed that the ones that do chamber and fire find have a bit of their tips cut off... so I looked at a couple of random prvi and lc m855 I had and noticed that the tip of their bullets are much sharper than the com block stuff I had tried and when I hand cycled those they had no gouge in the bullet. I also tested all the same ammo in mags with 0 failures and twice as much shot. I know the answer on this seems clear, that I should stick with what works, but I'd really like to get cheaper ammo working because this isn't the only machinegun I've gotta feed! Has anyone else run into this? I know there are members here that have put a lot of rounds through their shrikes and I've seen plenty of videos of people running cheaper ammo through them, should I see if Ares will fix it? Any advise would be great and thanks in advance! |
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I never was able to get any steel case ammo to run reliably. I would end up with the bolt riding under the round due to the excessive stripping force of the polymer cartridge. I also was concerned about damaging the aluminum feed ramp in the receiver as the steel case round seemed to impact the receiver feed ramp more than the brass case, especially in the bolt under-ride scenario where the round can't dive down due to the bolt going underneath. I eventually bought a new steel/nickel feed tray from Ares that completely protects the aluminum upper feed ramp area from damage as well.
I have resolved myself to the fact that the Shrike (at least in my case) will only run with quality brass case ammo. I have recently been running some lighter powered ammo (Federal XM193I) vs. the real deal Lake City stuff and appreciate the slightly slower cyclic rate the Federal XM193I provides with no loss in reliability. |
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I also have approx. 5000 rounds thru my Shrike/Colt M-16A1 and have had great luck with all ammo. I have both the 12.5" and 16" bbl.'s.
My question first is assuming you have the adjustable bbl, are you using the adjustable regulator feature? H2 or H3 buffer? What receiver are you using? I do think that using "loosened/opened" links help considerably to operating issues. Lastly, which GEN Shrike do you have? |
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here's the thread about resizing the links, from HKPDW http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_23/414212_Ideas_on_M27_link_expander_.html I have found that if you clean all your links in simple green, then ubricate them with dry film case lube before hand loading them I can get it to run pretty well with the Wolf, but not quite 100%. PMC, LC and winchester all run very well. I believe there is just too much friction with the steel cased stuff. BTW all you Shrike fans check this out, my latest shrike project: Para-Shrike |
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so it seems that tight links are the cause of the round hitting the tiny lip on the feed ramp? i was considering filing/polishing the area that digs into the nose of the cartridge, but I hate to mess with such an expensive barrel, I'm running an h2 with it btw. It was my experience that rounds will hit the receiver based aluminum feed ramp to some extent regardless of what you do (with the exception of purchasing a new updated geometry feed tray from Ares). The old feedtray setup there were essentially three feed ramp contact points for the nose of the bullet. The beginning of the feed ramp on the feed tray itself, the alumnim receiver based ramp, and then the steel feed ramp as part of the barrel extension. With the new feed tray geometry, the feed ramp cut into the feed tray itself if larger & lower so that the round can never impact the receiver portion. Rounds transition directly from the feed tray to the steel barrel extension ramp. With the old feedtray geometry, it was my experience that rounds which dragged in the links (especially steel case) had a higher chance of the bolt riding under. If the bolt goes under the round it can't be pushed down by the feed cover pawls and jams into the feed ramp in the aluminum receiver. The only time I ever had rounds (and by rounds it was like 2 or 3) get caught on the transition between the steel barrel ramp and the aluminum receiver ramp was when testing with steel case ammo. I have never had a brass case round get caught. I figured there are only so many times you can have a round get jammed up at that feed ramp transition point before you create a permanent divot in the receiver so have used with brass case ammo exclusively after some limited testing with steel case. Also almost all the annodizing on the aluminum feed ramp portion of the receiver was gone in the first ~1000rds and that was all brass case ammo, so I am pretty sure rounds contact that area regardless with the old/original feed tray. For good measure bought a new Steel/Nickle feed tray to protect the receiver, not to mention my original aluminum feed tray was starting to look pretty ragged as well. This is what my receiver looked like after a couple thousand rounds and what prompted me to replace the tray with the new style before it potentially became an even bigger issue. I assume that if you cut the barrel to match your upper you will eventually have to modify any barrel you install. Cutting down the barrel ramp may a temporary fix if the aluminum section continues to get worn away. 
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I do not own shrike but currently have in my possession one from a buddy. He was about give up on it functioning, and let me give it a whirl on my SBR. Have the 12.5? and 16 barrel. After some playing around I got it to work with a cast boolit from links. 16.2 gr of Reloader 7 and a 51.5gr round nose gas checked boolit. I did oil up the links really well and oh yeah it was with reloaded wolf steel case
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| so I think where I will start with this is to file very slightly the ramp area on the barrel, maybe its just my upper but if I take a knife and run the tip down the feed ramp from aluminum to the barrel ramp the tip of the knife hangs on the lip of the barrel ramp. I've only got two barrels at the moment I figure I can mod one of them very slightly and have the other to see the difference, if it works I'd mod both of them, for me getting cheaper ammo to work would be worth the mod. before I go that far can anyone find a fault with that plan? (other than moding expensive barrels) |
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With the new feed tray geometry, the feed ramp cut into the feed tray itself if larger & lower so that the round can never impact the receiver portion. Rounds transition directly from the feed tray to the steel barrel extension ramp. Thanks for your post - there was a lot of useful information in there. It sounds like Ares solved the problem of the upper feed ramp wearing down when they started selling the new feed tray? If that's the case, do you see any reason to avoid using steel cased ammo in a Shrike with the new feed tray, from the perspective of not wanting to damage the upper? The upper feed ramp issue is one of the reasons I haven't picked up a Shrike. Well, that and the high ROF. Ares supposedly had some magic to reduce the ROF, but I don't know if they ever released it: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_415/217620_SHRIKE_Cyclic_Rate.html&page=1#i1793010 Direct link to video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvIf49RSSGY& |
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Thanks for your post - there was a lot of useful information in there. It sounds like Ares solved the problem of the upper feed ramp wearing down when they started selling the new feed tray? If that's the case, do you see any reason to avoid using steel cased ammo in a Shrike with the new feed tray, from the perspective of not wanting to damage the upper? The upper feed ramp issue is one of the reasons I haven't picked up a Shrike. Well, that and the high ROF. Ares supposedly had some magic to reduce the ROF, but I don't know if they ever released it: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_415/217620_SHRIKE_Cyclic_Rate.html&page=1#i1793010 Direct link to video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvIf49RSSGY& Quoted:
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With the new feed tray geometry, the feed ramp cut into the feed tray itself if larger & lower so that the round can never impact the receiver portion. Rounds transition directly from the feed tray to the steel barrel extension ramp. Thanks for your post - there was a lot of useful information in there. It sounds like Ares solved the problem of the upper feed ramp wearing down when they started selling the new feed tray? If that's the case, do you see any reason to avoid using steel cased ammo in a Shrike with the new feed tray, from the perspective of not wanting to damage the upper? The upper feed ramp issue is one of the reasons I haven't picked up a Shrike. Well, that and the high ROF. Ares supposedly had some magic to reduce the ROF, but I don't know if they ever released it: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_415/217620_SHRIKE_Cyclic_Rate.html&page=1#i1793010 Direct link to video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvIf49RSSGY& You are correct, Ares modified the feed trays to prevent contact of the nose of the round on the aluminum upper. My Shike was bought from Ruben Mediola (dealernfa) the day he first advertised them for sale. The only option at the time was the aluminum feed tray. Here is a pic of my new "Nickel Steel Tray" vs. old "Aluminum Tray"  vs. 
You can see the new tray on the left the feed ramp is wider and lower, protecting the aluminum receiver. The feed ramp on the right is fully exposed and you can clearly see the anodizing missing where round hit the aluminum ramp. Sort of sucks that the original design can damage the receiver and that you have to spend $500 a new feed tray....but they are sorta the only game in town for a lightweight transferable belt-fed. The ROF can be dealt with by using a heavier buffer (I use an MGI) and a lighter recoil spring compared to the ares spring (I mainly use a Sprinco Blue). Here is a video of my ROF suppressed with that buffer/spring setup and a 12" adjustable barrel. http://s1252.photobucket.com/user/jbntex/media/Shrike_Suppressed_zps9989cec1.mp4.html |
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thanks for the pic of the new feed tray mine is also steel/nickle but it has the old style feed ramp cut in it like the picture on the right. after switching did you notice a change in reliability? from the picture you posted its hard to tell for sure but the edge of your barrel feed ramp hangs out a lot less than mine.
putting aside steel case ammo for now what ammo does everyone use that works 100%, other than LC? |
| one observation I'd like to throw in about the brass vs steel issue is that I have had about the same results with the new wolf brass cased stuff thats around as I have had with other com block steel cased stuff, what they seem to have in common is the gouge on the nose of the bullet which I don't see when running LC. |
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The new tray pretty much stops where the steel barrel ramp begins. The picture makes it look like it covers the barrel ramp a bit (there is a small shadow) but the feed ramp on the barrel isnt covered at all from what I can tell in person.
I have not shot the new tray yet, so can't speak to reliability as I have only had it a couple weeks at this point. |
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You are correct, Ares modified the feed trays to prevent contact of the nose of the round on the aluminum upper. My Shike was bought from Ruben Mediola (dealernfa) the day he first advertised them for sale. The only option at the time was the aluminum feed tray. Here is a pic of my new "Nickel Steel Tray" vs. old "Aluminum Tray" http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh571/jbntex/4b16e80c-7862-4434-aa86-4842ca554e5e_zps1e5c0d93.jpg vs. http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh571/jbntex/cd2374ec-8344-4638-9d27-8d0708576ed1_zps3465a51a.jpg You can see the new tray on the left the feed ramp is wider and lower, protecting the aluminum receiver. The feed ramp on the right is fully exposed and you can clearly see the anodizing missing where round hit the aluminum ramp. Sort of sucks that the original design can damage the receiver and that you have to spend $500 a new feed tray....but they are sorta the only game in town for a lightweight transferable belt-fed. The ROF can be dealt with by using a heavier buffer (I use an MGI) and a lighter recoil spring compared to the ares spring (I mainly use a Sprinco Blue). Here is a video of my ROF suppressed with that buffer/spring setup and a 12" adjustable barrel. http://s1252.photobucket.com/user/jbntex/media/Shrike_Suppressed_zps9989cec1.mp4.html Quoted:
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With the new feed tray geometry, the feed ramp cut into the feed tray itself if larger & lower so that the round can never impact the receiver portion. Rounds transition directly from the feed tray to the steel barrel extension ramp. Thanks for your post - there was a lot of useful information in there. It sounds like Ares solved the problem of the upper feed ramp wearing down when they started selling the new feed tray? If that's the case, do you see any reason to avoid using steel cased ammo in a Shrike with the new feed tray, from the perspective of not wanting to damage the upper? The upper feed ramp issue is one of the reasons I haven't picked up a Shrike. Well, that and the high ROF. Ares supposedly had some magic to reduce the ROF, but I don't know if they ever released it: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_415/217620_SHRIKE_Cyclic_Rate.html&page=1#i1793010 Direct link to video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvIf49RSSGY& You are correct, Ares modified the feed trays to prevent contact of the nose of the round on the aluminum upper. My Shike was bought from Ruben Mediola (dealernfa) the day he first advertised them for sale. The only option at the time was the aluminum feed tray. Here is a pic of my new "Nickel Steel Tray" vs. old "Aluminum Tray" http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh571/jbntex/4b16e80c-7862-4434-aa86-4842ca554e5e_zps1e5c0d93.jpg vs. http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh571/jbntex/cd2374ec-8344-4638-9d27-8d0708576ed1_zps3465a51a.jpg You can see the new tray on the left the feed ramp is wider and lower, protecting the aluminum receiver. The feed ramp on the right is fully exposed and you can clearly see the anodizing missing where round hit the aluminum ramp. Sort of sucks that the original design can damage the receiver and that you have to spend $500 a new feed tray....but they are sorta the only game in town for a lightweight transferable belt-fed. The ROF can be dealt with by using a heavier buffer (I use an MGI) and a lighter recoil spring compared to the ares spring (I mainly use a Sprinco Blue). Here is a video of my ROF suppressed with that buffer/spring setup and a 12" adjustable barrel. http://s1252.photobucket.com/user/jbntex/media/Shrike_Suppressed_zps9989cec1.mp4.html Thanks for posting this photo. I've been holding out for them to release their newest tray with built in paws to hold the belt, but each time I contact them they say that model feed tray is all tied up with .mil contracts. It's good to see their design. |
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Thanks for posting this photo. I've been holding out for them to release their newest tray with built in paws to hold the belt, but each time I contact them they say that model feed tray is all tied up with .mil contracts. It's good to see their design. Quoted:
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With the new feed tray geometry, the feed ramp cut into the feed tray itself if larger & lower so that the round can never impact the receiver portion. Rounds transition directly from the feed tray to the steel barrel extension ramp. Thanks for your post - there was a lot of useful information in there. It sounds like Ares solved the problem of the upper feed ramp wearing down when they started selling the new feed tray? If that's the case, do you see any reason to avoid using steel cased ammo in a Shrike with the new feed tray, from the perspective of not wanting to damage the upper? The upper feed ramp issue is one of the reasons I haven't picked up a Shrike. Well, that and the high ROF. Ares supposedly had some magic to reduce the ROF, but I don't know if they ever released it: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_415/217620_SHRIKE_Cyclic_Rate.html&page=1#i1793010 Direct link to video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvIf49RSSGY& You are correct, Ares modified the feed trays to prevent contact of the nose of the round on the aluminum upper. My Shike was bought from Ruben Mediola (dealernfa) the day he first advertised them for sale. The only option at the time was the aluminum feed tray. Here is a pic of my new "Nickel Steel Tray" vs. old "Aluminum Tray" http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh571/jbntex/4b16e80c-7862-4434-aa86-4842ca554e5e_zps1e5c0d93.jpg vs. http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh571/jbntex/cd2374ec-8344-4638-9d27-8d0708576ed1_zps3465a51a.jpg You can see the new tray on the left the feed ramp is wider and lower, protecting the aluminum receiver. The feed ramp on the right is fully exposed and you can clearly see the anodizing missing where round hit the aluminum ramp. Sort of sucks that the original design can damage the receiver and that you have to spend $500 a new feed tray....but they are sorta the only game in town for a lightweight transferable belt-fed. The ROF can be dealt with by using a heavier buffer (I use an MGI) and a lighter recoil spring compared to the ares spring (I mainly use a Sprinco Blue). Here is a video of my ROF suppressed with that buffer/spring setup and a 12" adjustable barrel. http://s1252.photobucket.com/user/jbntex/media/Shrike_Suppressed_zps9989cec1.mp4.html Thanks for posting this photo. I've been holding out for them to release their newest tray with built in paws to hold the belt, but each time I contact them they say that model feed tray is all tied up with .mil contracts. It's good to see their design. I asked the same thing and they told me basically I was going to be waiting a long time as they were just a "one off run" they did. I suspect they didn't make very many of them, maybe just the one in the picture on their FB page and or there were issues. My plan was to do a proof of concept setup with my old aluminum tray (who cares is I butcher it in the process) and then add belt pawls to my nickel tray using the measurement, etc. from the old aluminum tray experiment. (assuming it worked) My biggest concern was the wear I was seeing on the upper. You can see from the pics all the anodizing is basically gone on the feed ramp area and that was the hard "wear layer". I can only assume that if the anodizing is gone that the aluminum underneath would eventually follow. Once that material is gone the options to put it back become much more challenging. Some folks seem to have this issue and other don't. I wasn't sure where I would fall, but before I got there I figured I would just take advantage of the end of year sale and replace the feed tray with the new design. |
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