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Posted: 5/30/2024 3:17:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SG55xdude]
i hate the internet
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USA
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Posted: 5/30/2024 3:28:33 PM EDT
[#1]
Perhaps some people pay that much for the older imports, but I don't get it. I don't see anything that makes the older ones better. That said, people do some odd things when it comes to older rifles. Colt SP1's come to mind. Even though they had different lower receiver forgings than their military counterparts, semi bolt carriers and larger push pins, they sell for more today than the current rifles which are pretty much identical in every way to their military counterparts except for the fun switch. I collect Colt AR15's but don't at all want something that's a reminder of a gun company attempting to pacify gun controllers. Perhaps people want them now because they couldn't buy one back when they first came to like them?
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MP, USA
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Posted: 5/30/2024 7:45:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JoshNC]
[#2]
The older guns are definitely more collectible to the ultra purist collector and will always command a premium amongst those who fit that description. They are not for everyone. Some don’t care what import markings are engraved, while others do. Original optics for those early guns are pricey too. They are arguably less functional than a Nightforce nx8 1-8 in a decent mount on a B&T optic rail, and yet people pay to have the period correct optic.
The earlier guns have a much nicer finish and have no 922(r) compliance issues. I personally prefer the importer to have been Sigarms or SigSauer USA, not a third party. But I have a wide variety of guns from different importers, including Sigarms, M+M, SigSauer USA, JDI, and others. Is a Sigarms imported black SG 552-2 SP Commando LE trade in rifle more desirable than a JDI import 552 pistol? How about a Sigarms imported 551-2? How about a 551-2 imported by an LE angency that lacks any import markings? To me, the answer to all of those is a resounding yes. Fortunately I bought all of my really desirable SIGs before prices went really insane. I have had a few JDI imports and still have one. They are nice, are collectible, and will certainly appreciate in value in the years to come. Unless registered as an SBR under the brace amnesty, those imports will always have the 922(r) black eye. Also, the billboard import markings are a black eye to some. They don’t bother me as shooters, but as a collectible they do. |
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Posted: 5/31/2024 12:51:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: SG55xdude]
[#3]
nevermind
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Posted: 5/31/2024 6:17:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: PGT_0673]
[#4]
The $10K SIG used to be $20K before JDI imports of new production. I recently sold a first batch JDI gray 550P to a friend and bought a pre-ban Sigarms 550. Why? Because it was minimal cash out of pocket and the pre-ban will ultimately always be preferable for collectors.
Shoot it? Nope, no reason to. I've got a black JDI 550P and gray PE90P to run hard. Pre-ban 550: xxxx JDI 550P: xxxxx |
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Posted: 5/31/2024 10:01:44 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SG55xdude: I understand them being more expensive it's just how much more expensive that seems ludicrous to me. I don't own guns I don't shoot collectable or not. If I bought one of the $10k plus sigs I'd be shooting it. Not everyone has the same priorities when they buy guns. But that’s OK. |
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Posted: 5/31/2024 2:02:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SG55xdude]
[#6]
nevermind
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Posted: 5/31/2024 4:12:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: vellnueve]
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SG55xdude: I was just asking if people are actually paying the prices for them they are listed at. I have a machine gun and other very expensive Firearms. I shoot them though. I have a Sten SMG that rarely gets shot. My Kolar over/under, on the other hand, which is easily the most expensive gun I own, has probably 100K shells down the pipes. I have other rifles that are rarely or never shot and many handguns that don’t get shot. Some people collect, some shoot, many do both. |
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CHE
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Posted: 5/31/2024 7:03:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: hobo]
[#8]
Deled at request of OP.
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Posted: 5/31/2024 8:22:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SG55xdude]
[#9]
nevermind
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MP, USA
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Posted: 6/1/2024 10:12:48 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vellnueve: I have a Sten SMG that rarely gets shot. My Kolar over/under, on the other hand, which is easily the most expensive gun I own, has probably 100K shells down the pipes. I have other rifles that are rarely or never shot and many handguns that don’t get shot. Some people collect, some shoot, many do both. Exactly. I am a collector and a shooter. I have a couple unfired very collectible firearms that will remain unfired. I have plenty of others to shoot. My transferable Colt M16 and HK sear mp5 probably see the most range time of anything I own. |
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CHE
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Posted: 6/1/2024 10:15:19 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SG55xdude: Yea I recently changed my screen name. Couldn't think of anything but swiss sigs are my favorite. I'm a dentist that's why I chose my avatar or whatever the picture is called. Ive not heard of an individual being charged with 922r violations. I'd be interested to know if it has happened. I have us parts squirreled away (stocks, triggers, etc.). Your choice of screen name is neat. There is something about the Swiss 55x that just sticks to me too. I remember holding a 551 back in 1990 ish and my jaw dropped. My buddy was offered this SIG 551 in trade for his new jet ski. MY friend refused to trade for the jet ski but sure wishes he did now. lol It appears that 922r is mainly used as an "additional charge" when someone gets in trouble. Many will roll the dice but not me . Also, most guns are sold without the stock being attached so it appears the market is well aware of the legal situation. Over the years I've run across many dentist gun collectors. Must be the love of cool specialty tools ! ? |
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Posted: 6/1/2024 11:43:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: SG55xdude]
[#12]
nevermind
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MP, USA
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Posted: 6/1/2024 12:34:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JoshNC]
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hobo: Your choice of screen name is neat. There is something about the Swiss 55x that just sticks to me too. I remember holding a 551 back in 1990 ish and my jaw dropped. My buddy was offered this SIG 551 in trade for his new jet ski. MY friend refused to trade for the jet ski but sure wishes he did now. lol It appears that 922r is mainly used as an "additional charge" when someone gets in trouble. Many will roll the dice but not me . Also, most guns are sold without the stock being attached so it appears the market is well aware of the legal situation. Over the years I've run across many dentist gun collectors. Must be the love of cool specialty tools ! ? 922(r) is exactly why the pre-89 guns and post-89 guns imported and used for LE command a premium over the pistol imports. The SIG 55x to me is the most aesthetically pleasing military rifle ever made. |
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USA
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Posted: 6/1/2024 12:54:30 PM EDT
[#14]
One thing to keep in mind about 922(r) is that it only applies to assembly. It does not apply to possession. Therefore, it's perfectly legal to possess a firearm that someone else assembled in violation of 922(r).
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CHE
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Posted: 6/1/2024 1:54:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: hobo]
[#15]
Deled at request of OP.
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Posted: 6/2/2024 5:53:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: KitBuilder]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bret: One thing to keep in mind about 922(r) is that it only applies to assembly. It does not apply to possession. Therefore, it's perfectly legal to possess a firearm that someone else assembled in violation of 922(r). Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bret: One thing to keep in mind about 922(r) is that it only applies to assembly. It does not apply to possession. Therefore, it's perfectly legal to possess a firearm that someone else assembled in violation of 922(r). It also doesn't apply to any imported firearm that was previously sold, or shipped to, or issued for the use of, any government agency. So did some citizen assemble it that way? Did an LE officer assemble it that way for official use, and then sell it? They don't know. It's called "reasonable doubt." Originally Posted By hobo: Good point but I fear this might happen ; You will get a receipt for the seized contraband that was in your possession. You will be encouraged to make a statement where you can explain your views of the law and where you obtained the contraband in your possession. Then your " legal to own" contraband will be destroyed. ATF doesn't seize firearms simply for 922(r) imported parts counts. If I'm wrong, you'll have to show me. Usually ATF doesn't actually seize firearms from anybody we see on these forums. They simply ask them to voluntarily surrender those firearms, and they do. Tell them to get a warrant. (When they're just making stuff up, it's hard to get a warrant.) Anyway, to answer OP's question, yes people with $10k+ to spare buy such things. I have one Swiss SAN (an SG 551-2 SWAT) and it was $2500 back in 2015. I wouldn't be a buyer at $10k+ today. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 6/3/2024 12:22:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Apec]
[#17]
Originally Posted By SG55xdude: I've seen plain 550's, 551's, and a couple of 552's anywhere from 10k-17k. Now that these have been imported again for a few years why would anyone in their right mind pay 3 times as much? Are the older ones really that much better? The fit and finish on my 550 and 551 are impeccable and they are very accurate. My 553 the lower anodizing has a slight purple tone but it's a nato lower that takes ar15 mags. I could understand if they cheaped out the design over the years but it's essentially the same rifle. A premium for a really old model could make sense but 2-3x the cost. I am dumbfounded people would buy them. I have said this in other threads, but there are differences in features between the newer/older guns that some have not mentioned here. Unlike actual military guns, the preban 550s (>$10K) do not have bayonet lugs (despite being "preban/pre-922r"). The Trident/M+M/etc PE90s and JDI 550's do have bayonet lugs. The law enforcement imported 552's were only offered in black. Only JDI offered them in grey/green. The law enforcement 551's were only offered with pin/welded 14.3 barrels and diopter sights. JDI has brought in more configurations, though he has yet to bring in a proper 551SB diopter gun like those LDWF trade ins (only achievable by rebarreling one of the steel/diopter 551's from 2021 or so). Ultimately it is collector preference as to which features command more value to them. |
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Posted: 6/3/2024 9:35:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: SG55xdude]
[#18]
nevermind
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CHE
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Posted: 6/3/2024 10:10:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: hobo]
[#19]
Deled at request of OP.
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CHE
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Posted: 6/3/2024 12:03:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: hobo]
[#20]
Deled at request of OP.
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CHE
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Posted: 6/3/2024 12:04:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: hobo]
[#21]
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Posted: 6/3/2024 6:54:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: KitBuilder]
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hobo: LE officers cannot assemble it then sell it off, this is terribly incorrect. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hobo: LE officers cannot assemble it then sell it off, this is terribly incorrect. Sure they can. So can anyone else. As @Bret said, it's not the possession (nor transfer) that's unlawful under 922(r). If the firearm was imported, sold, shipped, or issued pursuant to 925 then 922(r) does not apply. Why do you think this cannot be accomplished by individual LEOs? If someone assembles unlawfully without regard to 922(r) and they're not relieved by 925, then yes that's unlawful assembly and ATF can prosecute them. They rarely do, but they can. It can be imported by the department , then sold off. The LE models with true 16" barrels are very desirable. I have several of these along with another poster here. After that has been satisfied, it may be sold to other (private) purchasers. |
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Posted: 6/3/2024 7:02:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: PGT_0673]
[#23]
Shooting a 551-SB with custom suppressor adapter on it (it's sweet)
  Sig551-SB w/ Omega-30 |
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CHE
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Posted: 6/3/2024 7:24:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: hobo]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KitBuilder: @hobo Sure they can. So can anyone else. As @Bret said, it's not the possession (nor transfer) that's unlawful under 922(r). If the firearm was imported, sold, shipped, or issued pursuant to 925 then 922(r) does not apply. Why do you think this cannot be accomplished by individual LEOs? If someone assembles unlawfully without regard to 922(r) and they're not relieved by 925, then yes that's unlawful assembly and ATF can prosecute them. They rarely do, but they can. It doesn't have to be imported by the LE agency, but it does have to be imported for sale to LE (agencies or individual officers) for 925 to relieve the "disabilities" imposed by 922(r). After that has been satisfied, it may be sold to other (private) purchasers. I think we agree. 1/ The rifle must be imported for LE USE only and certainly NOT by any individual officer. No badge relieves you of that law. To do this intentionally is a felony. It can later however be be sold off by the dept. 2/ There are VERY FEW 551-2 SP PURE SWISS 16"+ rifles out there WITH the cool stock. I think less than 100 GTG post 89 100% SIG 551 RIFLES. 3/ Everything else ( like the sweet 551 build just posted ) is ; Mismatched kits and pistol imports by a few importers, some small imports too. Some folks ( here) just want that Swiss goodness so bad they will rationalize breaking the law. Some even encouraging others to do so by writing " oh, you wont get caught or in any trouble" or "seldom prosecuted " language. 4/ I submit the market place as the true "truth teller" . And back to the OP's question and my semi-final answer. |
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Posted: 6/4/2024 9:34:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: hobo]
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Apec: The law enforcement 551's were only offered with pin/welded 14.3 barrels and diopter sights. (only There were indeed a few 16" police guns imported and a few by SIG themselves. I have several examples in the Factory Boxes. I consider these the most desirable of ALL imports due to the Late features and no need for 922r. Yea, I hate those pin and weld guns. They are beautiful until you look at the 100lb dong on the end of the barrel. My Bro form 1'd so he could gut that thing off. The 16' barrel is still only 1.3 inches longer and no SBR necessary. Also, I have a very elaborate receiver brace if you want to try a barrel swap since you are local. The receiver brace was made by a well know person ( not Estes) . Brian? maybe something? I've been wanting to try it out. Larry at CCF has been telling me for 25 years that it is pretty straight forward and to give it a try. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 6/4/2024 2:09:59 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hobo: There were indeed a few 16" police guns imported and a few by SIG themselves. I have several examples in the Factory Boxes. I consider these the most desirable of ALL imports due to the Late features and no need for 922r. Yea, I hate those pin and weld guns. They are beautiful until you look at the 100lb dong on the end of the barrel. My Bro form 1'd so he could gut that thing off. The 16' barrel is still only 1.3 inches longer and no SBR necessary. Also, I have a very elaborate receiver brace if you want to try a barrel swap since you are local. The receiver brace was made by a well know person ( not Estes) . Brian? maybe something? I've been wanting to try it out. Larry at CCF has been telling me for 25 years that it is pretty straight forward and to give it a try. I already had Troy Ess rebarrel my JDI 16 to 17" Personally I only like the 551 with the 14.3 or 17" barrel. But if I do get another JDI 16 and a 14.3" barrel, I may consider that. Thanks |
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Posted: 6/4/2024 6:28:54 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Apec: I already had Troy Ess rebarrel my JDI 16 to 17" Personally I only like the 551 with the 14.3 or 17" barrel. But if I do get another JDI 16 and a 14.3" barrel, I may consider that. Thanks For, me, I only own 100 % Swiss Stuff Title 1 Swiss Made , Swiss assembled RIFLES . No disrespect to tax stamps 14' guns and 17' 922r needy Parts Builds. |
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MP, USA
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Posted: 6/4/2024 7:38:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JoshNC]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hobo: There were indeed a few 16" police guns imported and a few by SIG themselves. I have several examples in the Factory Boxes. I consider these the most desirable of ALL imports due to the Late features and no need for 922r. Yea, I hate those pin and weld guns. They are beautiful until you look at the 100lb dong on the end of the barrel. My Bro form 1'd so he could gut that thing off. The 16' barrel is still only 1.3 inches longer and no SBR necessary. Also, I have a very elaborate receiver brace if you want to try a barrel swap since you are local. The receiver brace was made by a well know person ( not Estes) . Brian? maybe something? I've been wanting to try it out. Larry at CCF has been telling me for 25 years that it is pretty straight forward and to give it a try. Spot on. There are a number of 16” oal 551-2 that were imported for LE agencies post-89. Roger at Midwest Distributors had them in gray and black. Both lacked import markings and the story was that the LE agency directly imported from Switzerland, hence no import markings. The gray guns had LE/gov restriction markings on the right side of the upper receiver, while the black did not. There were around 20 gray and 10 black iirc. I have a gray one. They were $5k when first offered for commercial sale in 2010. I believe those guns came out of a PA LE agency. There have been handfuls of other gray guns that have Sigarms import markings and LE/gov restriction markings that have sold over the years as well. You probably have a Keith Buckner receiver clamp if it’s steel plates with machined Delrin inserts. I have one, along with one of Larry Gaglio’s huge barrel wrenches. I’ve changed half a dozen 55x barrels. It’s very straight forward. |
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MP, USA
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Posted: 6/4/2024 7:59:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JoshNC]
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hobo: For, me, I only own 100 % Swiss Stuff Title 1 Swiss Made , Swiss assembled RIFLES . No disrespect to tax stamps 14' guns and 17' 922r needy Parts Builds. I agree, though I have a few 922(r) needy guns, namely a 551 parts gun sbr that has a mismatched CCF receiver and parts kit with a new at the time of install 551-2 short barrel and a M+M 553. But the vast majority of my SIGs are not needy of 922(r). |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 6/4/2024 11:58:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Apec]
[#30]
It seems 922r always finds its way into these discussions.
My take is that there are differences, pros and cons to guns imported before and after 1989, but beyond that it's all subjective preference. But ultimately what matters most is to buy what you really want. I don't let 922r dictate what I buy and don't buy... that's letting the tail wag the dog. If I only bought guns that were not subject to 922r, my collection would be a lot less varied and less interesting. For what its worth, none of my fellow collectors who own 55X actually own preban or LE import 55X, despite having everything else from preban FN FALs, FNCs, Galils, Valmets, HKs, AKs and whatnot. |
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CHE
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Posted: 6/5/2024 10:33:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: hobo]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Apec: It seems 922r always finds its way into these discussions. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Apec: It seems 922r always finds its way into these discussions. It is the main driver of the "pre-ban' gun market since 922r is related regulation, er law. For what its worth, none of my fellow collectors who own 55X actually own preban or LE import 55X, despite having everything else from preban FN FALs, FNCs, Galils, Valmets, HKs, AKs and whatnot. You are statistically correct as there are not enough real guns to go around. Not many pre-ban 551 and maybe fewer 551 police guns are available. 250 total in US? (Many thanks to JoshNC for that awesome detailed info above) Here is a legit All Swiss used Police gun in black. These are rare birds. ( It took years of searching daily to find my never issued boxed Black 551 Police gun ) https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1040991949 |
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Posted: 6/5/2024 11:07:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: hobo]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JoshNC: Spot on. There are a number of 16” oal 551-2 that were imported for LE agencies post-89. Roger at Midwest Distributors had them in gray and black. Both lacked import markings and the story was that the LE agency directly imported from Switzerland, hence no import markings. The gray guns had LE/gov restriction markings on the right side of the upper receiver, while the black did not. There were around 20 gray and 10 black iirc. I have a gray one. They were $5k when first offered for commercial sale in 2010. I believe those guns came out of a PA LE agency. There have been handfuls of other gray guns that have Sigarms import markings and LE/gov restriction markings that have sold over the years as well. You probably have a Keith Buckner receiver clamp if it’s steel plates with machined Delrin inserts. I have one, along with one of Larry Gaglio’s huge barrel wrenches. I’ve changed half a dozen 55x barrels. It’s very straight forward. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JoshNC: Originally Posted By hobo: There were indeed a few 16" police guns imported and a few by SIG themselves. I have several examples in the Factory Boxes. I consider these the most desirable of ALL imports due to the Late features and no need for 922r. Yea, I hate those pin and weld guns. They are beautiful until you look at the 100lb dong on the end of the barrel. My Bro form 1'd so he could gut that thing off. The 16' barrel is still only 1.3 inches longer and no SBR necessary. Also, I have a very elaborate receiver brace if you want to try a barrel swap since you are local. The receiver brace was made by a well know person ( not Estes) . Brian? maybe something? I've been wanting to try it out. Larry at CCF has been telling me for 25 years that it is pretty straight forward and to give it a try. Spot on. There are a number of 16” oal 551-2 that were imported for LE agencies post-89. Roger at Midwest Distributors had them in gray and black. Both lacked import markings and the story was that the LE agency directly imported from Switzerland, hence no import markings. The gray guns had LE/gov restriction markings on the right side of the upper receiver, while the black did not. There were around 20 gray and 10 black iirc. I have a gray one. They were $5k when first offered for commercial sale in 2010. I believe those guns came out of a PA LE agency. There have been handfuls of other gray guns that have Sigarms import markings and LE/gov restriction markings that have sold over the years as well. You probably have a Keith Buckner receiver clamp if it’s steel plates with machined Delrin inserts. I have one, along with one of Larry Gaglio’s huge barrel wrenches. I’ve changed half a dozen 55x barrels. It’s very straight forward. Thanks Josh, yes it is a Keith Buckner clamp. I gotta write that down. Let me ask ya please. Are you able to change the barrel with zero % damage to the finish? The reason is that another collector had his barrel changed by ( insert known name here ) and he says that the paint was damaged. Damage was under where the clamp would be, front side leading edge of receiver. He asked for my comment but I declined comment since I have no direct knowledge. My understanding is that the proper switch leaves no evidence? This was within the last year but gun was 5 year old ilaflon. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 6/5/2024 4:40:06 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hobo: It is the main driver of the "pre-ban' gun market since 922r is related regulation, er law. You are statistically correct as there are not enough real guns to go around. Not many pre-ban 551 and maybe fewer 551 police guns are available. 250 total in US? (Many thanks to JoshNC for that awesome detailed info above) Here is a legit All Swiss used Police gun in black. These are rare birds. ( It took years of searching daily to find my never issued boxed Black 551 Police gun ) https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1040991949 Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hobo: Originally Posted By Apec: It seems 922r always finds its way into these discussions. It is the main driver of the "pre-ban' gun market since 922r is related regulation, er law. For what its worth, none of my fellow collectors who own 55X actually own preban or LE import 55X, despite having everything else from preban FN FALs, FNCs, Galils, Valmets, HKs, AKs and whatnot. You are statistically correct as there are not enough real guns to go around. Not many pre-ban 551 and maybe fewer 551 police guns are available. 250 total in US? (Many thanks to JoshNC for that awesome detailed info above) Here is a legit All Swiss used Police gun in black. These are rare birds. ( It took years of searching daily to find my never issued boxed Black 551 Police gun ) https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1040991949 As I was saying earlier… some collectors and shooters don’t base their purchase decisions around 922r, nor should they make it the core principle guiding their collection. For guns where postban versions, clones or parts kits don’t exist, then there is no choice but to get an original preban. However the situation with Swiss Sig rifles is different. The pistol imports under JDI, M+M, Trident, etc are a satisfactory substitute for the preban or law enforcement imports for most people. They are still Swiss made and faithful to the original design. It doesn’t get any better than that. You can spend years looking for that preban or law enforcement import, but what happens after you finally get it? Are you going to shoot it or worry about ruining its collectible/investment value? You can pick up one of the newer guns, shoot it like it was meant to be, and enjoy life. |
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Posted: 6/5/2024 6:00:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: hobo]
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Apec: As I was saying earlier… some collectors and shooters don’t base their purchase decisions around 922r, nor should they make it the core principle guiding their collection. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Apec: As I was saying earlier… some collectors and shooters don’t base their purchase decisions around 922r, nor should they make it the core principle guiding their collection. What do they base their decisions on ? Unfortunately ignorance is not a legit legal defense. What legally necessary US parts do you recommend folks use to be legal ? Pay up or break the law. However the situation with Swiss Sig rifles is different. The pistol imports under JDI, M+M, Trident, etc are a satisfactory substitute for the preban or law enforcement imports for most people. They are still Swiss made and faithful to the original design. It doesn’t get any better than that. Negative, folks can do better with some knowledge and $. If you follow the law *ALL* the post import pistols and 922r guns are now just a parts gun or you are in the possession of contraband. Easy as that and impossible to argue no matter how hard you click your heels. You can spend years looking for that preban or law enforcement import, but what happens after you finally get it? Are you going to shoot it or worry about ruining its collectible/investment value? I think some of the kids here are not stuck in that prison of two ideas. Shoot shooters and keep the really good stuff away. You can pick up one of the newer guns, shoot it like it was meant to be, and enjoy life. Right but it is now a parts gun or contraband. Also needs to be compliant even if on form 1'd unless it is a police gun. Why would a person want to make a felony or own contraband? This stuff is important and the market is proof perfect , OP. |
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Posted: 6/5/2024 6:45:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SG55xdude]
[#35]
nevermind
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Posted: 6/5/2024 7:23:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: hobo]
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SG55xdude: Im sorry but honestly you come across as grasping at straws here. I say that while at the same time thinking it is pretty sweet you have some of the older original imports. They are very neat guns. I'm not knocking that at all. I wouldn't mind having a 80's era PE90. I really can't knock what people pay for stuff though. Ive paid some stupid prices for specific things or custom gun work. I just spent $300 on a green swiss cheek rest, and $300 each on each of these brass catchers below. Those are mile examples from the last week. I really like my shooters. One man's straw is another man's federal law. Obviously the market understands that. Your pistols are cool. Many folks here just add the shooting sight trigger among other USA made parts. What Swiss parts did you remove to make all your parts rifles legal ? Keep in mind the SIG USA made ZERO stocks and grips here in the USA. All were made in Israel. There is however a GB seller who always falsely advertises these items as "made in USA" . I bet you are especially careful of 922r considering the accompanying can? |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 6/6/2024 12:16:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Apec]
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hobo: One man's straw is another man's federal law. Obviously the market understands that. Your pistols are cool. Many folks here just add the shooting sight trigger among other USA made parts. What Swiss parts did you remove to make all your parts rifles legal ? Keep in mind the SIG USA made ZERO stocks and grips here in the USA. All were made in Israel. There is however a GB seller who always falsely advertises these items as "made in USA" . I bet you are especially careful of 922r considering the accompanying can? You should check all the boxes and ask him to show you his stamp for the can and SBR as well! |
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Posted: 6/6/2024 1:02:06 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hobo: One man's straw is another man's federal law. Obviously the market understands that. Your pistols are cool. Many folks here just add the shooting sight trigger among other USA made parts. What Swiss parts did you remove to make all your parts rifles legal ? Keep in mind the SIG USA made ZERO stocks and grips here in the USA. All were made in Israel. There is however a GB seller who always falsely advertises these items as "made in USA" . I bet you are especially careful of 922r considering the accompanying can? I’m confused as to what your angle is here. There are more than enough parts available to make any of the pistols into a rifle and keep them 922r compliant, even with Swiss furniture. |
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Posted: 6/6/2024 8:16:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: markfall]
[#39]
whoops, wrong thread!
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CHE
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Posted: 6/6/2024 10:55:03 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vellnueve: I’m confused as to what your angle is here. There are more than enough parts available to make any of the pistols into a rifle and keep them 922r compliant, even with Swiss furniture. I agree ,all those Pistols need US parts to be legal. I was pointing out the the market immediate recognizes 922r needy guns/pistols. Rifles that can be legally 100% Swiss command a premium. Seems some here want to be in the club sooo bad they flagrantly disregard 922r. We are discussing why real Swiss Rifles are more expensive. |
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Posted: 6/6/2024 10:57:53 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JoshNC: 922(r) is exactly why the pre-89 guns and post-89 guns imported and used for LE command a premium over the pistol imports. The SIG 55x to me is the most aesthetically pleasing military rifle ever made. THIS |
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Posted: 6/6/2024 11:15:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: hobo]
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Apec: You should check all the boxes and ask him to show you his stamp for the can and SBR as well! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Apec: You should check all the boxes and ask him to show you his stamp for the can and SBR as well! [b]The law enforcement 551's were only offered with pin/welded 14.3 barrels and diopter sights. JDI has brought in more configurations, though he has yet to bring in a proper 551SB diopter gun like those LDWF trade ins (only achievable by rebarreling one of the steel/diopter 551's from 2021 or so). Apec, please keep in mind that this thread has been a very needed learning experience for you. Prior to your much needed enlightenment here you were posting incorrect info (see above) and you were not even aware of non-dong police guns., Silly. I think you are trying to say " Thank You " . |
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Posted: 6/6/2024 12:21:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SG55xdude]
[#43]
nevermind
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Posted: 6/6/2024 12:26:22 PM EDT
[#44]
After I get done here at the gym I'm just going to remove my presence from the sig subforum as best I can. Sorry for causing this thread I really had no idea it would bring out this debate.
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VA, USA
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Posted: 6/6/2024 12:37:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Apec]
[#45]
Anyways to recap the differences between preban and new import Sig 550's or recent import PE90s, since I managed to dig up some more info on a buddies' discord
Prebans have the following differences -No bayonet lug -No internal threading on flash hider for BFA (Current PE90s don't have these either, but they do have all the other features) -No grenade ring -Thinner FH -Different barrel profile after GB Technically speaking, if you want a gun that is closer to features to the actual military STGW90, the newer imports are going to be more similar than the prebans. Neutered features like the bayonet lug and grenade ring are in my opinion, dealbreakers. But if you want an older rare import gun, just because it's rare/preban/922r exempt whatever, then the preban is going to be your grail. Recent import PE90, note the grenade ring and flash hider profile, as well as bayonet lug  Preban 550-1 SP, note thinner flash hider and absence of grenade ring/bayonet lug  Same preban, note no threads inside flash hider  Internal threads for BFA on a newer import  Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hobo: Apec, please keep in mind that this thread has been a very needed learning experience for you. Prior to your much needed enlightenment here you were posting incorrect info (see above) and you were not even aware of non-dong police guns., Silly. I think you are trying to say " Thank You " . It's funny how OP was originally wondering if there were any real functional or manufacturing differences between the preban, LE, and current imports... and somehow this discussion turned into the 922r equivalent of range fudds asking people to show stamps/forms for NFA items. |
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Posted: 6/6/2024 12:42:35 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SG55xdude: I think the reality is this thread has made you come across as a hall monitor and for some reason wear it as a badge of honor. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SG55xdude: I think the reality is this thread has made you come across as a hall monitor and for some reason wear it as a badge of honor. Badges , plural, BADGES of Honor. Damn right a 100% Swiss SIG Rifle is the ultimate badge of honor. [b] Good grief we really are our own worst enemy. Um, you are the OP, silly. |
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Posted: 6/6/2024 12:57:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: hobo]
[#47]
Deled at request of OP.
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VA, USA
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Posted: 6/6/2024 1:06:18 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hobo: Wrong Again. The title of the thread is ; Does anyone actually buy the sigs priced are $10k plus anymore" What is funny, however , is how you do not have 100 % SWISS 551. Not sure that name calling and a JDI 550 Pistol boat anchor pics are really needed. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hobo: Originally Posted By Apec: It's funny how OP was originally wondering if there were any real functional or manufacturing differences between the preban, LE, and current imports... and somehow this discussion turned into the 922r equivalent of range fudds asking people to show stamps/forms for NFA items. Wrong Again. The title of the thread is ; Does anyone actually buy the sigs priced are $10k plus anymore" What is funny, however , is how you do not have 100 % SWISS 551. Not sure that name calling and a JDI 550 Pistol boat anchor pics are really needed. I don’t really care, I have plenty of other preban guns that are 100% factory imported rifles to enjoy. Plus the Sig 55X configurations I want don’t exist in preban/LE import form.  
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Posted: 6/6/2024 1:08:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: hobo]
[#49]
......
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Posted: 6/6/2024 1:24:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: hobo]
[#50]
.....
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