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MP, USA
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Posted: 6/8/2024 11:21:30 AM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Apec: I suppose it’s semantics and the 1989 ban had something to do with it, but the reason people buy those older imports is simply because they’re rare, discontinued and that’s market. As you said yourself, it’s a narrow niche of collectors who value that for whatever reason. They are not turning most of those guns into shooters, which begs the question of, what is the point of having a 922r exempt safe queen? My opinion throughout the thread is that 922r is not the driving decision behind every new SIG 55X’s owners purchase. Dave Wagner sells out on every drop (at least every one with a configuration that isn’t silly). Simply, people want SIGs and they will buy whatever configuration they are after that is within their means. This post from earlier says it perfectly by comparing the HK94 and SP5… the latter which comes with the correct length barrel, F revision bolt and paddle release, yet doesn’t command as much resale. I think a large number of 55x buyers are just saying F it with regard to 922(r). I agree re: safe queen collectibles. I own a very rare 16” oal 551-2 that appears unfired and I won’t shoot it, because it’s worth too much as a new 1984 time capsule. Same with my 11” ral8000 mr223a3 that I registered during the brace amnesty and as such is an SBR that doesn’t require engraving or 922(r) compliance. It will sit unfired because it’s NIB and worth too much to shoot. As for the sp5 vs 94, I have a few of both. I believe that the lack of need for 922(r) compliance and easier use with a transferred HK sear or trigger box is what keeps the 94 commanding a higher price. |
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Posted: 6/8/2024 11:35:13 AM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hobo: I submit that these guns are clearly post ban illegal rifle imports or pistols at best. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hobo: I submit that these guns are clearly post ban illegal rifle imports or pistols at best. Agreed, it’s some shady business and I personally won’t touch those guns I respectfully disagree. For most people , to own a 100% all Swiss Factory Assembled LEGAL Rifle would be considered the most desirable. The market supports this statement. I disagree that “most” people would consider it the most desirable, especially with price factored in. In a vacuum, sure, but the JDI guns are still highly desirable. The market also supports this statement as they sell out within minutes of release each time he gets a shipment - especially the ones that come in with a black or military finish and steel lowers. (Not including the weird blue, red, fuschia, whatever weird colored guns) |
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Posted: 6/8/2024 11:37:39 AM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JoshNC: As for the sp5 vs 94, I have a few of both. I believe that the lack of need for 922(r) compliance and easier use with a transferred HK sear or trigger box is what keeps the 94 commanding a higher price. Thing with HK stuff is that it’s just so much easier to 922r them since there’s so many more guns and so many more companies making parts. RCM parts are high quality and you’re not losing anything compared to the HK parts. They still sell every SP5 and JDI gun that comes in, clearly they’re desirable. |
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CHE
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Posted: 6/8/2024 1:26:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: hobo]
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vellnueve: Agreed, it’s some shady business and I personally won’t touch those guns I disagree that “most” people would consider it the most desirable, especially with price factored in. In a vacuum, sure, but the JDI guns are still highly desirable. The market also supports this statement as they sell out within minutes of release each time he gets a shipment - especially the ones that come in with a black or military finish and steel lowers. (Not including the weird blue, red, fuschia, whatever weird colored guns) I get what you are sayin when you factor in the cash and the amount of potential owners. When I say " desirable" , I'm stating that everyone would prefer a real 100% Swiss Factory SIG Rifle. And that the market supports this. Example; JDI guns are worth = X Dollars A 100% Swiss Factory SIG Rifle = X ++ More Dollars It only took 3 pages, but we are all on the same page. This will be a lot of good info in the "search" for folks getting into this genre. |
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Posted: 6/8/2024 5:58:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: hobo]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By doolz: Very late to the party and genuinely curious and thinking I understand what's going on...... There are 100% Swiss guns and there are not-100% Swiss guns using 922-r parts. The 100% Swiss guns are near impossible to obtain due to leaglity reasons. The not-100% Swiss guns that are advertised as 100% Swiss guns but using aftermarket parts are flooding the market/inflating the prices. The not-100% Swiss guns that are advertised as 100% Swiss guns use certain aftermarket parts to be able to be imported legally into the US. I hope I'm correct on at least one of the above, but that's essentially what I'm taking away from this. Authenticity is either owned or lost. Perfect on al counts Sir. Authenticity is the word that has been missing in this thread. I wish I had your comm. and conciseness skills ! knowledge helps the caveat emptor for sure. |
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MP, USA
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Posted: 6/9/2024 7:32:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: JoshNC]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vellnueve: Thing with HK stuff is that it’s just so much easier to 922r them since there’s so many more guns and so many more companies making parts. RCM parts are high quality and you’re not losing anything compared to the HK parts. They still sell every SP5 and JDI gun that comes in, clearly they’re desirable. It is easy to make an HK 922(r) compliant and I agree that RCM makes high quality parts. I disagree that you’re not losing anything by using them in an otherwise all German gun. You lose all German pedigree, which is why the 94 still command a premium over the sp5 series. It’s not that the JDI imports or SP5s are not desirable. I own multiples of the SP5 series and own some JDI and M+M import 55x. I’ve also owned and sold a few Trident import pe90. It’s awesome that we have these options, compared to when I first got into buying HKs and Sig 55x around 25 years ago. If Exeter imported the 55x series and made them compliant rifles, those would be very desirable. Or better yet, a court case challenging the 1968 GCA’s sporting clause 925(d)(3) and the ban on imported title 2, striking these down as unconstitutional would be the very best outcome. |
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AR, USA
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Posted: 6/9/2024 7:53:29 AM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JoshNC: It is easy to make an HK 922(r) compliant and I agree that RCM makes high quality parts. I disagree that you’re not losing anything by using them in an otherwise all German gun. You lose all German pedigree, which is why the 94 still command a premium over the sp5 series. It’s not that the JDI imports or SP5s are not desirable. I own multiples of the SP5 series and own some JDI and M+M import 55x. I’ve also owned and sold a few Trident import pe90. It’s awesome that we have these options, compared to when I first got into buying HKs and Sig 55x around 25 years ago. If Exeter imported the 55x series and made them compliant rifles, those would be very desirable. Or better yet, a court case challenging the 1968 GCA’s sporting clause 925(d)(3) and the ban on imported title 2, striking these down as unconstitutional would be the very best outcome. Always good to hear from you Josh. What do you know about the Trident imports? I have one that is a Pe90 but have been able find little out about them. |
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Posted: 6/9/2024 9:48:36 AM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vellnueve: I prefer to import them myself on a Form 6. Vellnueve, I did not realize you are an importer. Your statement uses the plural word "them". Do you have skin $$ in this game? Respectfully , this explains your odd defense of parts guns. Not picking at ya but just trying to help others understand and beware of the market. Many predators, " not saying you" , use the complexity of this subject to trick the unsuspecting buyer. Btw I 100 % believe in the free market and I applaud (and encourage) anyone who sells at top dollar honestly. Some folks have tons of cash while others - not so much. I've seen guys save for years only to get tricked by some asshole selling an , although desirable, JDI pistol as a Swiss Rifle. Fuck the predator and I'll spoil his game anytime if I can. Did I mention that; I 100 % believe in the free market and I applaud (and encourage) anyone who sells at top dollar honestly. - That' why they call me the SIG Oracle ( and bad words) |
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Posted: 6/9/2024 10:48:02 AM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hobo: Vellnueve, I did not realize you are an importer. Your statement uses the plural word "them". Do you have skin $$ in this game? Respectfully , this explains your odd defense of parts guns. Negative, I only import for personal use. |
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Posted: 6/9/2024 10:59:59 AM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JoshNC: It is easy to make an HK 922(r) compliant and I agree that RCM makes high quality parts. I disagree that you’re not losing anything by using them in an otherwise all German gun. You lose all German pedigree, which is why the 94 still command a premium over the sp5 series. It’s not that the JDI imports or SP5s are not desirable. I own multiples of the SP5 series and own some JDI and M+M import 55x. I’ve also owned and sold a few Trident import pe90. It’s awesome that we have these options, compared to when I first got into buying HKs and Sig 55x around 25 years ago. If Exeter imported the 55x series and made them compliant rifles, those would be very desirable. Or better yet, a court case challenging the 1968 GCA’s sporting clause 925(d)(3) and the ban on imported title 2, striking these down as unconstitutional would be the very best outcome. I don’t think all that retained higher value is due to 922r. Some of it is due to the fact that many people just prefer the older, preban guns - for example, preban Colt ARs routinely sell for more than current production even though there are no functional differences. Also, in a few states that preban status still means something legally, and that makes them more valuable. |
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MP, USA
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Posted: 6/9/2024 11:31:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: JoshNC]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vellnueve: I don’t think all that retained higher value is due to 922r. Some of it is due to the fact that many people just prefer the older, preban guns - for example, preban Colt ARs routinely sell for more than current production even though there are no functional differences. Also, in a few states that preban status still means something legally, and that makes them more valuable. I disagree re: the 94. Very few who buy a 94 are doing so because they plan to keep it a stock 94. All of my 94s were bought to be converted sear hosts. I have one left that will eventually be an SD. MA is the last remaining state where pre-94 means anything. And as I understand it, SBRs are exempt from their assault rifle ban. When it comes Colt ARs I agree with you, though I suspect a higher number of those are going to MA buyers. |
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MP, USA
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Posted: 6/9/2024 11:36:41 AM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Stefan-DSO: Always good to hear from you Josh. What do you know about the Trident imports? I have one that is a Pe90 but have been able find little out about them. Hit me up offline. |
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CHE
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Posted: 6/9/2024 1:08:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: hobo]
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vellnueve: Negative, I only import for personal use. Understood. Some of the smaller importers are the biggest culprits especially with the latest batches of Ex- Range guns PE90's. If not the original importer the next seller make will to do the Swiss Sig Rifle "rip off" when it is not Authentic. As for the pistol imports USA gets a bunch of Pistol PE90's and the Swiss buy New guns for themselves. Works out for everyone. |
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Posted: 6/9/2024 1:24:43 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JoshNC: I disagree re: the 94. Very few who buy a 94 are doing so because they plan to keep it a stock 94. All of my 94s were bought to be converted sear hosts. I have one left that will eventually be an SD. MA is the last remaining state where pre-94 means anything. And as I understand it, SBRs are exempt from their assault rifle ban. When it comes Colt ARs I agree with you, though I suspect a higher number of those are going to MA buyers. Yeah, I was thinking of MA because I used to live there. |
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MP, USA
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Posted: 6/9/2024 5:35:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: JoshNC]
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vellnueve: Yeah, I was thinking of MA because I used to live there. Living in MA, the horror.  I hope you live somewhere gun friendly and with a milder climate now. The early Colts also command a premium because the retro craze is full swing. And an early Colt is the only authentic semiauto retro AR. Every other semiauto retro AR is a reproduction. |
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Posted: 6/10/2024 7:45:20 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JoshNC: Living in MA, the horror. I hope you live somewhere gun friendly and with a milder climate now. The early Colts also command a premium because the retro craze is full swing. And an early Colt is the only authentic semiauto retro AR. Every other semiauto retro AR is a reproduction. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JoshNC: Originally Posted By vellnueve: Yeah, I was thinking of MA because I used to live there. Living in MA, the horror. I hope you live somewhere gun friendly and with a milder climate now. The early Colts also command a premium because the retro craze is full swing. And an early Colt is the only authentic semiauto retro AR. Every other semiauto retro AR is a reproduction. I'm currently in the MA shithole now.... Come on over or come on back. Water's warm. |
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Posted: 6/11/2024 12:44:33 AM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JoshNC: Living in MA, the horror. I hope you live somewhere gun friendly and with a milder climate now. The early Colts also command a premium because the retro craze is full swing. And an early Colt is the only authentic semiauto retro AR. Every other semiauto retro AR is a reproduction. Yeah the worst state I’ve had to live in since is VA. Florida is better and Texas was best. Living in MA gave me a better view of how some of us have to live. But the gun community was also super tight and we had a lot of fun with what we had. |
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Posted: 7/10/2024 6:37:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: SG55xdude]
[#18]
I have no intention on posting here more. While the majority are great the 1% just made the atmosphere not one I wanted to be in. I have actually found there is a r/sig55x section in reddit that gets decent amounts of traffic and discussion and nobody cares about another's compliance let alone question it.
I told you guys my issues with my boy caused me to be on edge. In the last 2 weeks he has been in a psychiatric holding facility and has been diagnosed with schizophrenia. I am actually buying a trailer tomorrow for my land as he will likely never be able to live alone. So I may have been brash with my posts but I wanted to clarify why. It all makes sense now because there was some legit crazy shit I was dealing with. Anyways if you want to post pics or discuss sig 55x style rifles reddit actually seems to be the most active. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 7/10/2024 11:20:53 PM EST
[#19]
Sorry to hear about your boy.
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CHE
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Posted: 7/11/2024 7:01:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: hobo]
[#20]
..........
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