[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Two sincere questions for those who still defend Sig or aren't convinced the 320 is flawed. (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 7/29/2025 7:56:37 PM EDT
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Ignore the self firing issue. We know two things about the P320 with 100% certainty: 1. It was not drop safe on release and tens of thousands of pistols were made that way. To date, Sig has still not issued a recall of those guns. 2. The striker safety does not work on a number of P320s as shown by Sig's own documents (showing dented primers) and the FBI report (which replicated non-functioning safeties on multiple guns). Questions: 1. How do you defend Sig as a company at this point? They not only knowingly allow thousands of guns that aren't drop safe to remain on the market, but continue to deny anything is wrong with the gun even though it is clear there is a very real, very public problem with the striker safety. 2. Why aren't you convinced the P320 is unsafe? It has two major safety problems to date that Sig refuses to comprehensively address. Even if the gun isn't self-firing, those two issues are gun safety dealbreakers for many of us that disqualify the pistol from any sort of consideration. |
| I'm not actively defending but I am always very skeptical of this stuff. The whole timing of everything felt weird to me. Unfortunately, once you've seen lawfare it makes you skeptical even of stuff that might be true. One of the main reasons I'm this way is the Remington 700 and all that went on with it. |
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Never cared for Sig. Early in my LE career I was issued a P226 that was a jamomatic. Compared the the P7M13 I carried with my previous department, it was like going from a Ferrari and driving a rusted out Pinto. It was the only pistol they had to issue me at the time so I carried it briefly before getting a G23 that shot flawlessly. The Sig reared its ugly head again when HSI issued me one in 2010, a P229. To put it mildly, the gun sucked. It was heavy, poorly balanced, and felt like shooting a brick. Compared to the G19, G26, HK USPc and Beretta 96D I carried before it, it was just a boat anchor. The 96D was a heavy gun, bit at least it looked good and handled nicely. I went back to carrying personal handguns after that; a G17 and G26. After an overseas assignment I was issued a P320. I carried it a couple weeks until I could get my guns from my in-laws, at which point I started carrying my G45 and G43 until I retired. No love for Sig here. It was and always has been a shit handgun. I don’t understand the love for it other than brand loyalty. I’m a fan of many guns. My requirements are that they are reliable, accurate and ergonomic. Sig just never delivered in all those areas. 32 years of carrying daily taught me that. YMMV. |
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SIG USA screwed the Pooch on that one. P210 (original and new versions). P220 P226 P228/9 P230/232. P365. All were good to very good (even excellent) guns for their type. (There's more, but I have personal experience with all of the listed ones.). Shame they couldn't continue it. Their 1911s are pretty nice too. |
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I have nothing against Sig, as I own metal Sig pistols. I just have never been interested in the 320, even before all the hullabaloo. Too homely for me, as trite as that sounds. When I manned a big box gun counter for a period in the past, they were fairly popular and people seemed to like their triggers. I'm pretty much indifferent to the whole controversy. |
| I just had the feeling this was trigger/holster interference issue from the beginning. I'm a fan of the Sig pistols I've owned and shot in LE and federal contract work. At this point Sig needs to stop trying to show they can't recreate this issue and produce a a fix where the likely related malfunctions recreated by 3rd parties can't be recreated at all(maybe a new FCG based upon the P365?). Alternatively, abandon the platform. |
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Quoted: 1) Lots of pistols aren’t drop safe, series 70 1911s, staccato XC etc. 2) The issue isn’t repeatable. No one can make one go off by itself, not even in guns that have supposedly done it. With your answers, you either didn't read the OP or purposely moved the goalposts.  We're not talking about self-firing. At all. We're talking about being drop safe (which you addressed) and the malfunctioning striker safety (which is is repeatable, and you didn't address). |
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Here's the better question: Why is everyone 100% convinced the P320 is unsafe despite the entire gun community and every major weapons testing agency in the US being completely unable to find anything wrong with it? (and no, the FBI testing did not demonstrate the weapon was unsafe, they demonstrated that if you removed enough parts and mess with the gun hard enough one of the three safeties may not work 100% of the time). This whole Sig witch hunt is literally the definition of the group think and feelings over evidence thought process the gun community so often claims to be above and then falls for every single time. |
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Quoted: Here's the better question: Why is everyone 100% convinced the P320 is unsafe despite the entire gun community and every major weapons testing agency in the US being completely unable to find anything wrong with it? (and no, the FBI testing did not demonstrate the weapon was unsafe, they demonstrated that if you removed enough parts and mess with the gun hard enough one of the three safeties may not work 100% of the time). This whole Sig witch hunt is literally the definition of the group think and feelings over evidence thought process the gun community so often claims to be above and then falls for every single time. Found the sig owner |
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Quoted: Here's the better question: Why is everyone 100% convinced the P320 is unsafe despite the entire gun community and every major weapons testing agency in the US being completely unable to find anything wrong with it? (and no, the FBI testing did not demonstrate the weapon was unsafe, they demonstrated that if you removed enough parts and mess with the gun hard enough one of the three safeties may not work 100% of the time). This whole Sig witch hunt is literally the definition of the group think and feelings over evidence thought process the gun community so often claims to be above and then falls for every single time. Quoted: Here's the better question: Why is everyone 100% convinced the P320 is unsafe despite the entire gun community and every major weapons testing agency in the US being completely unable to find anything wrong with it? (and no, the FBI testing did not demonstrate the weapon was unsafe, they demonstrated that if you removed enough parts and mess with the gun hard enough one of the three safeties may not work 100% of the time). This whole Sig witch hunt is literally the definition of the group think and feelings over evidence thought process the gun community so often claims to be above and then falls for every single time. Even Sig's own documents, which you conveniently didn't address, show primer strikes from shake testing, proving the striker safety doesn't work in some percentage of complete guns. You also didn't address the FBI report replicating malfunctioning striker safeties in multiple guns. What planet are you living on?  Quoted: Why do consumers still buy Ford products? The Ford Pinto is reported to have killed 27 (officially) through faulty gas tanks. Some sources estimate many hundreds of deaths (AI). I don't even get what you're trying to prove here. If you were defending Ford or the Pinto in the 70s, I'd have the same questions for you. |
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Quoted: 1) Lots of pistols aren’t drop safe, series 70 1911s, staccato XC etc. 2) The issue isn’t repeatable. No one can make one go off by itself, not even in guns that have supposedly done it. I believe that there were requirements for the gun being drop safe in the mil contract, so supplying guns that did not meet the requirements constitutes poor contract performance. I'd like to see what remedy is in the contract for this. It's not unreasonable to expect a modern military pistol to be more drop safe than a Series 70. |
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Received this email from SIG about 2.5 hrs ago..... SIG SAUER P320 Information P320 Safety Information Recently, there have been a number of reports and claims regarding the safety of the P320 pistol and its use by the U.S. Military and law enforcement agencies. We understand you may have questions. We want to address your concerns and provide you with full, complete, and accurate information. SIG SAUER has ALWAYS and will continue to put the safety and security of the U.S. Military, the law enforcement community, our consumers, and the public first. To this end, we want to be sure concerned citizens have access to complete facts. The P320 pistol is one of the safest, most advanced pistols in the world -meeting and exceeding all industry safety standards. Its design has been thoroughly tested and validated by the U.S. Military and law enforcement agencies at the federal, state and local levels. In addition, the P320 has been rigorously tested, and is currently in use by militaries and law enforcement agencies around the world. FBI Testing and Report A recently publicized internal report from the FBI’s Ballistic Research Facility (BRF) created some confusion and raised questions about the safety of the P320. The FBI prepared this report for the Michigan State Police after an officer was involved in an accidental discharge. SIG SAUER engineers met with the FBI and Michigan State Police on several occasions to review the report and the incident. Ultimately, the FBI conducted a more detailed, repeatable, and comprehensive battery of testing using compatible equipment. The subsequent testing resulted in zero instances of failures and the Michigan State Police are now confidently issuing officers P320 based pistols. The FBI BRF have yet to make any official claims or statements regarding the safety of the P320 pistol or any of its variants. However, we are urging the FBI BRF and FBI Director Kash Patel to release a full and complete testing and evaluation report on their updated P320 safety testing. Department of Homeland Security An internal memo from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS)/ U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) was recently posted online stating the agency was halting its use of the P320. Many online media outlets immediately sought to attribute this to the above referenced FBI BRF report, which is incorrect. DHS has never raised any safety concerns about the P320 and ICE has since extended their existing contract with SIG SAUER another two years. Since DHS has yet to comment publicly correcting their improperly leaked memo, or any statements questioning the safety of the P320, we are now urging ICE to release all information on P320 testing. SIG SAUER is honored to continue aiding ICE in their mission to protect America. U.S. Air Force M18 There was a recent tragic incident at F.E. Warren Air Force Base in Wyoming which resulted in the death of an Airman. Because the incident involved the discharge of a (P320 based) M18 pistol, the Air Force is actively conducting an evaluation of M18 pistols within the specific Command where the incident happened. This cautionary step is standard procedure. We proactively offered assistance to the U.S. military as they investigate the incident. Contrary to several online reports, (P320 based) M17 and M18 pistols remain on active duty with all branches of the U.S. Military, including the U.S. Air Force, defending freedom around the world. We have absolute confidence in the U.S. Military’s ability to conduct a thorough investigation and report their findings. As we learn more information about the investigation, we will continue to provide updated information. P320 Range and Training Bans Following several of these inaccurate reports, a number of ranges, training providers, and training facilities made the reactionary decision to ban the P320 and its use in their facilities. We are actively working to provide these individuals with accurate information along with a detailed understanding of the P320 and its safety features. If you are impacted by a P320 range or a training provider ban, we urge you to reach out to SIG CUSTOMER SERVICE: 603-610-3000 Option 1 or send a message here so we can clarify any misinformation and provide the truth. The P320 CANNOT, under any circumstances, discharge without the trigger first being moved to the rear. This has been verified through exhaustive testing by SIG SAUER engineers, the U.S. Military, several major federal and state law enforcement agencies, and independent laboratories. This video provides a detailed view into all of the various safety features of the P320 and provides a detailed explanation of how the safety system works; for further information on the P320 please visit here. As with any gun, the P320 will discharge if the trigger is pulled to the rear. Accordingly, SIG SAUER continues to remind its customers, employees, and the public to employ all safe gun-handling practices as spelled out in detail in our product manuals. The SIG SAUER Academy remains a resource to customers, employees, and the public in offering various firearms safety courses. We respect the public’s concern and are actively working to provide as much information as possible. We sincerely thank you for your continued support of SIG SAUER and urge anyone with additional questions or concerns regarding the P320 and/or safe firearms handling to reach out to our customer service team. SIG SAUER, Inc. 72 Pease Blvd. Newington, NH 03801 |
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Quoted: With your answers, you either didn't read the OP or purposely moved the goalposts. We're not talking about self-firing. At all. We're talking about being drop safe (which you addressed) and the malfunctioning striker safety (which is is repeatable, and you didn't address). Quoted: Quoted: 1) Lots of pistols aren’t drop safe, series 70 1911s, staccato XC etc. 2) The issue isn’t repeatable. No one can make one go off by itself, not even in guns that have supposedly done it. With your answers, you either didn't read the OP or purposely moved the goalposts. We're not talking about self-firing. At all. We're talking about being drop safe (which you addressed) and the malfunctioning striker safety (which is is repeatable, and you didn't address). I didn’t know the striker safety thing was separate from the going off thing. I thought that was only pointed out in relation. How is the striker safety thing an issue on its own? |
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Quoted: I believe that there were requirements for the gun being drop safe in the mil contract, so supplying guns that did not meet the requirements constitutes poor contract performance. I'd like to see what remedy is in the contract for this. It's not unreasonable to expect a modern military pistol to be more drop safe than a Series 70. Quoted: Quoted: 1) Lots of pistols aren’t drop safe, series 70 1911s, staccato XC etc. 2) The issue isn’t repeatable. No one can make one go off by itself, not even in guns that have supposedly done it. I believe that there were requirements for the gun being drop safe in the mil contract, so supplying guns that did not meet the requirements constitutes poor contract performance. I'd like to see what remedy is in the contract for this. It's not unreasonable to expect a modern military pistol to be more drop safe than a Series 70. If I recall it met the drop test that was specified. |
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Quoted: SIG USA screwed the Pooch on that one. P210 (original and new versions). P220 P226 P228/9 P230/232. P365. All were good to very good (even excellent) guns for their type. (There's more, but I have personal experience with all of the listed ones.). Shame they couldn't continue it. Their 1911s are pretty nice too. I do miss my P220 
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"The P320 CANNOT, under any circumstances, discharge without the trigger first being moved to the rear." Noticed they don't say how much. They didn't say a full trigger pull or fully to the rear... From videos I have seen even a minute amount will allow it to fire if the slide is moved. |
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Quoted: Received this email from SIG about 2.5 hrs ago..... SIG SAUER P320 Information P320 Safety Information Recently, there have been a number of reports and claims regarding the safety of the P320 pistol and its use by the U.S. Military and law enforcement agencies. We understand you may have questions. We want to address your concerns and provide you with full, complete, and accurate information. SIG SAUER has ALWAYS and will continue to put the safety and security of the U.S. Military, the law enforcement community, our consumers, and the public first. To this end, we want to be sure concerned citizens have access to complete facts. The P320 pistol is one of the safest, most advanced pistols in the world -meeting and exceeding all industry safety standards. Its design has been thoroughly tested and validated by the U.S. Military and law enforcement agencies at the federal, state and local levels. In addition, the P320 has been rigorously tested, and is currently in use by militaries and law enforcement agencies around the world. FBI Testing and Report A recently publicized internal report from the FBI’s Ballistic Research Facility (BRF) created some confusion and raised questions about the safety of the P320. The FBI prepared this report for the Michigan State Police after an officer was involved in an accidental discharge. SIG SAUER engineers met with the FBI and Michigan State Police on several occasions to review the report and the incident. Ultimately, the FBI conducted a more detailed, repeatable, and comprehensive battery of testing using compatible equipment. The subsequent testing resulted in zero instances of failures and the Michigan State Police are now confidently issuing officers P320 based pistols. The FBI BRF have yet to make any official claims or statements regarding the safety of the P320 pistol or any of its variants. However, we are urging the FBI BRF and FBI Director Kash Patel to release a full and complete testing and evaluation report on their updated P320 safety testing. Department of Homeland Security An internal memo from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS)/ U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) was recently posted online stating the agency was halting its use of the P320. Many online media outlets immediately sought to attribute this to the above referenced FBI BRF report, which is incorrect. DHS has never raised any safety concerns about the P320 and ICE has since extended their existing contract with SIG SAUER another two years. Since DHS has yet to comment publicly correcting their improperly leaked memo, or any statements questioning the safety of the P320, we are now urging ICE to release all information on P320 testing. SIG SAUER is honored to continue aiding ICE in their mission to protect America. U.S. Air Force M18 There was a recent tragic incident at F.E. Warren Air Force Base in Wyoming which resulted in the death of an Airman. Because the incident involved the discharge of a (P320 based) M18 pistol, the Air Force is actively conducting an evaluation of M18 pistols within the specific Command where the incident happened. This cautionary step is standard procedure. We proactively offered assistance to the U.S. military as they investigate the incident. Contrary to several online reports, (P320 based) M17 and M18 pistols remain on active duty with all branches of the U.S. Military, including the U.S. Air Force, defending freedom around the world. We have absolute confidence in the U.S. Military’s ability to conduct a thorough investigation and report their findings. As we learn more information about the investigation, we will continue to provide updated information. P320 Range and Training Bans Following several of these inaccurate reports, a number of ranges, training providers, and training facilities made the reactionary decision to ban the P320 and its use in their facilities. We are actively working to provide these individuals with accurate information along with a detailed understanding of the P320 and its safety features. If you are impacted by a P320 range or a training provider ban, we urge you to reach out to SIG CUSTOMER SERVICE: 603-610-3000 Option 1 or send a message here so we can clarify any misinformation and provide the truth. The P320 CANNOT, under any circumstances, discharge without the trigger first being moved to the rear. This has been verified through exhaustive testing by SIG SAUER engineers, the U.S. Military, several major federal and state law enforcement agencies, and independent laboratories. This video provides a detailed view into all of the various safety features of the P320 and provides a detailed explanation of how the safety system works; for further information on the P320 please visit here. As with any gun, the P320 will discharge if the trigger is pulled to the rear. Accordingly, SIG SAUER continues to remind its customers, employees, and the public to employ all safe gun-handling practices as spelled out in detail in our product manuals. The SIG SAUER Academy remains a resource to customers, employees, and the public in offering various firearms safety courses. We respect the public’s concern and are actively working to provide as much information as possible. We sincerely thank you for your continued support of SIG SAUER and urge anyone with additional questions or concerns regarding the P320 and/or safe firearms handling to reach out to our customer service team. SIG SAUER, Inc. 72 Pease Blvd. Newington, NH 03801  To start off, the military tests were never completed. It's been proven they were mot drop safe. If you take off the slide of an M18 and press on the trigger with the safety engaged, most times you will see the safety block move, that is frightning.
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Quoted: I'm not actively defending but I am always very skeptical of this stuff. The whole timing of everything felt weird to me. Unfortunately, once you've seen lawfare it makes you skeptical even of stuff that might be true. One of the main reasons I'm this way is the Remington 700 and all that went on with it. I still have several 700s and two of them still have Walker triggers. I see SIG's position on this as being far, far worse than any theoretical guilt Remington bore for the walker trigger design. |
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Quoted: Even Sig's own documents, which you conveniently didn't address, show primer strikes from shake testing, proving the striker safety doesn't work in some percentage of complete guns. You also didn't address the FBI report replicating malfunctioning striker safeties in multiple guns. What planet are you living on? I don't even get what you're trying to prove here. If you were defending Ford or the Pinto in the 70s, I'd have the same questions for you. Quoted: Quoted: Here's the better question: Why is everyone 100% convinced the P320 is unsafe despite the entire gun community and every major weapons testing agency in the US being completely unable to find anything wrong with it? (and no, the FBI testing did not demonstrate the weapon was unsafe, they demonstrated that if you removed enough parts and mess with the gun hard enough one of the three safeties may not work 100% of the time). This whole Sig witch hunt is literally the definition of the group think and feelings over evidence thought process the gun community so often claims to be above and then falls for every single time. Even Sig's own documents, which you conveniently didn't address, show primer strikes from shake testing, proving the striker safety doesn't work in some percentage of complete guns. You also didn't address the FBI report replicating malfunctioning striker safeties in multiple guns. What planet are you living on? Quoted: Why do consumers still buy Ford products? The Ford Pinto is reported to have killed 27 (officially) through faulty gas tanks. Some sources estimate many hundreds of deaths (AI). I don't even get what you're trying to prove here. If you were defending Ford or the Pinto in the 70s, I'd have the same questions for you. Im not trying to prove anything. I handed you a perfectly analogous situation and a path to your answer. Find out why people still buy Fords and you’ll know why people still buy SIGs. Likely, brand loyalty and being identified with such a storied brand that makes (otherwise) top notch products. |
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Quoted: Here's the better question: Why is everyone 100% convinced the P320 is unsafe despite the entire gun community and every major weapons testing agency in the US being completely unable to find anything wrong with it? (and no, the FBI testing did not demonstrate the weapon was unsafe, they demonstrated that if you removed enough parts and mess with the gun hard enough one of the three safeties may not work 100% of the time). This whole Sig witch hunt is literally the definition of the group think and feelings over evidence thought process the gun community so often claims to be above and then falls for every single time. Seeing multiple videos of a holstered P320 firing into someone's leg is enough evidence for me. YMMV |
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Quoted: OP your dealing with the cult of SIG. It's a life style. Half the plastic SIG owners are trying to match their purse and shoes. The other half got suckered. I have owned SIGs since my first P226 in 1985. I have used SIGs as my primary carry since then. But when I saw the concept of the 320, even I knew it was going to be problematic. |
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Quoted: SIG USA screwed the Pooch on that one. P210 (original and new versions). P220 P226 P228/9 P230/232. P365. All were good to very good (even excellent) guns for their type. (There's more, but I have personal experience with all of the listed ones.). Shame they couldn't continue it. Their 1911s are pretty nice too. SIG USA isn’t the real SIG. They are an American company that legally calls itself SIG USA |
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After seeing the 2 newest videos and dicking around with my WCP 320 with a Grayguns trigger. I'm convinced its a shitty QC stacking tolerance issue with Sigs production. I do not have a factory 320 to look at. My pistol has none of the play outlined in the video from the other day or the new video from 2hrs ago. The tolerences in that gun he's using are absolutely appalling. I'd be interested if other members with factory guns have similarly sloppy pieces of shit. |
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Quoted: There's around 5 paid members on the forum who are openly supportive of Sig and the P320. Naming them would be a callout. Quoted: Quoted: Is anyone defending Sig or isn’t convinced the P320 at least has some issues? Real question. There's around 5 paid members on the forum who are openly supportive of Sig and the P320. Naming them would be a callout. How do I become a member paid to shill for the P320?  I mean. I have my share of Sigs. Including a P320… but damn do they have some explaining to do and they’re doing everything but explaining it. They’re suing, emailing, trying to shape popular opinion on forums … but not addressing the issue. Sad. |
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Quoted: How do I become a member paid to shill for the P320? I mean. I have my share of Sigs. Including a P320… but damn do they have some explaining to do and they’re doing everything but explaining it. They’re suing, emailing, trying to shape popular opinion on forums … but not addressing the issue. Sad. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is anyone defending Sig or isn’t convinced the P320 at least has some issues? Real question. There's around 5 paid members on the forum who are openly supportive of Sig and the P320. Naming them would be a callout. How do I become a member paid to shill for the P320? I mean. I have my share of Sigs. Including a P320… but damn do they have some explaining to do and they’re doing everything but explaining it. They’re suing, emailing, trying to shape popular opinion on forums … but not addressing the issue. Sad. I mean they paid for their membership here. 
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Quoted: Ignore the self firing issue. We know two things about the P320 with 100% certainty: 1. It was not drop safe on release and tens of thousands of pistols were made that way. To date, Sig has still not issued a recall of those guns. 2. The striker safety does not work on a number of P320s as shown by Sig's own documents (showing dented primers) and the FBI report (which replicated non-functioning safeties on multiple guns). Questions: 1. How do you defend Sig as a company at this point? They not only knowingly allow thousands of guns that aren't drop safe to remain on the market, but continue to deny anything is wrong with the gun even though it is clear there is a very real, very public problem with the striker safety. 2. Why aren't you convinced the P320 is unsafe? It has two major safety problems to date that Sig refuses to comprehensively address. Even if the gun isn't self-firing, those two issues are gun safety dealbreakers for many of us that disqualify the pistol from any sort of consideration. Saying that the striker safety does not work is a bit disingenuous. I've been carrying guns without a FP block for 25 years. Millions more people have carried them for over 100 years. None of those guns fired while they were holstered. The Sig is a fucking death trap. |