ARFCOM Mechanics: Is this estimate ok? $1700???

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Posted: 10/30/2009 12:52:36 PM EST

My wife's car has 75K+ miles on it. It has never had anything done to it other than routine oil changes, brakes, etc. The mechanic told me that her car NEEDS all this stuff at this time. What do you think?

ETA: I'm trying to fix the first pic

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:01:26 PM EST

[#1]

The prices seem right and it probably all needs done if you're never done anything besides oil changes.

I just spent $750 on my 2004 Grand Cherokee with 79K miles doing the maintenance items you have listed along with a new battery. It would have been close to your total if I got new tires, alignment, and a water pump.

You don't have to do it all now at once. Do you plan to keep the car for a long time?

ETA: We're not comparing Apples to Apples here, but here are the approx prices I paid at my local NAPA shop:

Oil, Filter, Lube - $11 parts, $15 labor

Tranny power flush - $71 parts, $70 labor - Includes some $18 additive

Fuel filter - $58 parts, $70 labor - Yes, it's GOLD, even says so on the invoice!

Platinum spark plugs - $32 parts, $88 labor

Repl differential lube - $49 parts, $132 labor - Front took synthetic...

Interstate battery - $106 parts, $22 labor

Vehicle was running fine before but the battery was original and I did the rest to keep my extended warranty valid. I plan to keep it at least another 2 or 3 years.

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:05:12 PM EST

[#2]

Everything besides the Water pump R&R is rape.

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:06:30 PM EST

[#3]

Concur with the 1st post, outside of the trans flush. But you could save about $20 buying/installing an air filter yourself. Although $20/1700 is insignificant.

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:06:57 PM EST

[#4]

They could at least throw in a tube of KY.

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:10:29 PM EST

[#5]

overall id say you didnt do too badly. I seem to recall in the past that "satan" (nickname for the mitsubishi dealership given by owners) used to charge right at 1200 or so just to replace the timing assembly.

Of course you could have done it much cheaper yourself but that was also quite a bit of work/headache that you saved yourself, and it was all done at once. Trust me, you do NOT want your timing belt to snap, that pretty much = new engine...or at the least new valves and pistons.

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:10:57 PM EST

[#6]

IM Quintin.
He's a factory Mitsubishi tech.

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:13:14 PM EST

[#7]

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:13:46 PM EST

[#8]

I don't think it's really that out of line, seems about average to me.

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:17:42 PM EST

[#9]

why does it need that? I don't that much on service trucks

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:19:55 PM EST

[#10]

It really seems like a lot but to keep a 6+ year old car running smoothly you have to figure on doing a lot of that at some point anyway.

FWIW- some people recommend against transmission flushes these days. Just drain it and replace the fluid.

Like has been said- you could spread it over a couple of months.

4073

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:20:14 PM EST

[#11]

That is a lot of maintenance work being done, and a brand new set of tires all at once. If I were doing it myself it would be a lot cheaper, but you aren't. I don't think that the price is out of line at all. That is about what I would have expected when I worked at dealerships. I would have charged you about $700 just for the water pump and timing belt stuff, another $600 for the tires. $400 for the rest of the stuff isn't all that bad at all.

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:21:09 PM EST

[#12]

Is the car running right now? If so you do not really need any of those things. Take it in every three months for a oil change plus one thing on that list.

Oh, anything with flush in the title is a rip off.

Your plugs and coolant should be good for at least 10-years or 100,000 miles.

Is your water pump leaking? If not you dont need a new one. Water pumps are simple to diagnose. If there is coolant running out onto your driveway then you need a new water pump, otherwise drive on.

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:23:51 PM EST

[#13]

Quoted:
why does it need that? I don't that much on service trucks

No shit.

Bring it to my house and I'll do it for half that.

(I don't even work on my own truck when I don't have to )

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:24:16 PM EST

[#14]

Quoted:
Is the car running right now? If so you do not really need any of those things. Take it in every three months for a oil change plus one thing on that list.

Oh, anything with flush in the title is a rip off.

Your plugs and coolant should be good for at least 10-years or 100,000 miles.

Oh sure, plugs last 100k easy.

79k miles. Ford SVT Contour.

And you do the water pump at the same time as a timing belt on that car, iirc.

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:24:27 PM EST

[#15]

The fuel system and ignition system tune up are indeed rape. For the fuel system you are going to pay them$75 to dump a bottle of fuel system cleaner in the gas tank. These don't even work that well. $73.76 to change spark plugs? That is also rape. The transmission fluid change is also sticking out, $90 for fluid seems like it's too much.

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:25:27 PM EST

[#16]

The top of the estimate shows your true issue:

It says "Firestone"

go somewhere else

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:26:07 PM EST

[#17]

Quoted:
The top of the estimate shows your true issue:

It says "Firestone"

go somewhere else

This is also correct.

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:26:13 PM EST

[#18]

This is the price you pay when you have absolutely no automotive maintenance skills whatsoever.

DO NOT TAKE YOUR CAR TO THE FIRESTONE STORE!!!! That's almost as bad and getting your car stereo installed at Best Buy.

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:26:39 PM EST

[#19]

They are raping you on the parts. Timing belt,water pump, tensioners, air filter, plugs, are almost double the price that anyone can buy them for at a parts store and these places would get a discount off of the "walk in" price.

Labor seems high too.

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:27:58 PM EST

[#20]

GET ANOTHER MECH.

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:28:53 PM EST

[#21]

Not good estimate, bro.

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:29:11 PM EST

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Is the car running right now? If so you do not really need any of those things. Take it in every three months for a oil change plus one thing on that list.

Oh, anything with flush in the title is a rip off.

Your plugs and coolant should be good for at least 10-years or 100,000 miles.

Oh sure, plugs last 100k easy.

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb195/toiyabe66/Shop%205/DSCN4186.jpg
79k miles. Ford SVT Contour.

And you do the water pump at the same time as a timing belt on that car, iirc.

I have 106K on the plugs in my 99 Contour SVT.

I'm getting them replaced in a month or so before I drive it across country.

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:30:17 PM EST

[#23]

Sounds like a load of BS to me.

First, is anything actually wrong?
Yes-fix those.

No-I would not do anything with "flush" in it. (Waste of money and dangerous to trannys.)

I am the you don't flush a transmission guy, change fluid/filter is the way to go. Check your manual on this. 75K may be time for it if you have never done it. (My car says 150K, but I think I will do 75K when I get to it.)

Brake flush is total BS. (Unless you are actually doing brake work, then we will have a different chat on that, which I am shocked you haven't done already)

Do you need tires? Is the tread worn? (the alignment goes with this item)

If you aren't over heating or running hot, the water pump is out too.

Now, for a coolant change (I guess this could be called a flush and still really be a change), if you haven't done this, it could be time for this too.

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:32:53 PM EST

[#24]

Forget all that crap and find a new mechanic. Tires and maybe a timing belt are all you need. Check the owner's manual for the service interval on the timing belt. Shocks/struts are also a good idea if you haven't replaced them yet and are noticing excessive bounce.

No need to replace the water pump unless it's leaking. "Fuel system tune-up" is a rip-off and doesn't even include a new fuel filter. Dump a $3 bottle of injector cleaner into the gas tank instead. Absolutely no reason to "flush" the transmission (risk of blowing out seals and causing problems down the road)

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:33:51 PM EST

[#25]

You don't need a coolant "flush" unless that shit is full of rust or something. Its double dipping, because they have to drain and refill the cooling system when they are doing the water pump anyways.

While I don't like painting with a wide brush so to speak, I'm not sure a tire store is the best place to have a timing belt replaced.

Brake fluid flush is NOT B.S. Brake fluid absorbs moisture from the air. We recommend brake fluid flushes every two years. It prevents corrosion on the inside of the braking system, as well as other issues which most people probably won't encounter (high heat brake fade due to boiling of water in the braking system).

Fuel system flush is probably just a load of crap. I'd rather have the fuel filter replaced, and throw a bottle of good injector cleaner in the tank. Wynn's power charge, BG 44K or the like.

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:36:16 PM EST

[#26]

In my opinion, you don't need any of that stuff. Unless the water pump is actually broken. People are just adding useless stuff on to pocket cash. Also i see its in Florida, I have heard a few of my local mechanics saying how they don't even flush and fluids and just act like they did and charge for it. Im not sure what area your in but i would trust a big company like Firestone ot not screw you over.

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:38:07 PM EST

[#27]

just do it yourself and save alot of money.

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:39:02 PM EST

[#28]

Quoted:
In my opinion, you don't need any of that stuff. Unless the water pump is actually broken. People are just adding useless stuff on to pocket cash. Also i see its in Florida, I have heard a few of my local mechanics saying how they don't even flush and fluids and just act like they did and charge for it. Im not sure what area your in but i would trust a big company like Firestone ot not screw you over.

If its due for a timing belt, its very wise to go ahead and do the water pump at the same time. They are often driven by the timing belt, and since you are already there its a minimum of expense to replace a part which is prone to failure while you already have the vehicle disassembled.

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:39:11 PM EST

[#29]

Quoted:
They are raping you on the parts. Timing belt,water pump, tensioners, air filter, plugs, are almost double the price that anyone can buy them for at a parts store and these places would get a discount off of the "walk in" price.

Labor seems high too.

Of course the parts price is high. If they don't make money on the parts, and the part fails, they have to eat the labor on replacing it. On the rare occasion that I take in side work, I typically charge about 80% mark up on parts. I guarantee my work. I used to be willing to use carry in parts, and learned the hard way. A friend brought his car to me to fix, he was having money problems and needed the car for work, so I agreed to help him out. I took the car in, figured out what was wrong, and priced good quality parts, he bitched about the price on the parts, went to Autozone and bought a lifetime warranty part. I out it in, everything was good, for six months. The Autozone part went bad, my friend told me "no big deal, the part has a lifetime warranty, it won't cost you anything to replace it again". It did cost me alright, I pulled the part, took it to Autozone, got a free replacement, and used up the rest of my day off putting the part on the car. It also cost me the trust of a friend, I told him I wanted to be paid for doing the job again, and he got all pissy, saying he had already paid me, and the part had a lifetime warranty, so it wouldn't cost me anything. It did cost me, it cost me the better part of a day off, it cost me the aggravation of working on an old shitbox for free, and it cost me the trust of a friend who felt I had tried to rip him off. A mechanic who doesn't make money on parts isn't going to be around for long. A customer who insists on using crappy aftermarket parts, and poorly rebuilt parts is never going to find a trustworthy mechanic. The only mechanics who don't make anything on parts are guys who are so shady, that they know they aren't going to do any free rework ever, or so inexperienced that they do not understand the reasons for installing good parts, and the need to charge for parts, if you don't you will lose money.

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:40:18 PM EST

[#30]

LOL..

they want to charge you $75 to pour a can of "fuel system cleaner" into your gas tank.

Make sure that your read up on the EK10T, usually it's a three step process "recommended" by these

places.

From what I can tell, minus the tire upgrade, you can do all of that yourself providing your slightly mechanically

inclined and have a decent set of hand tools.

If not, I'd suggest finding a local DSM forum and getting one of the local DSM guys to help you out with all of it.

Quite often you'll find mechanics/service techs that will help you out.

It's not that hard.

A buddy of mine is a Master Toyota mechanic that does service work such as yours on the side for people, usually charges only a third/half of what the dealership quotes.

He gets so much referral work, he has to turn people away..not enough time!

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:42:34 PM EST

[#31]

40 in parts and 50 in labor to pour an 8 dollar bottle of fuel system cleaner in.

I would tell them to fuck off and die.
although the oil change isn't that bad.

the ignition parts, and airfilter are fucking insane. change those yourself. Plugs are cake just do one at a time and you cant fuck up and well if you cant change an air filter then you probably will like the rape.

Edit everything else is not needed, if its not broke don't fix it.

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:42:41 PM EST

[#32]

Everything on that list EXCEPT the alignment tires & the water pump is 'Any Idiot can do this at home over the weekend' work

They are trying to 'up-sell' you big-time...

Why is the car going in? Just 'Maintanance' or is the WP dying and the tires bald?

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:42:54 PM EST

[#33]

Quoted:
My wife's car has 75K+ miles on it. It has never had anything done to it other than routine oil changes, brakes, etc. The mechanic told me that her car NEEDS all this stuff at this time. What do you think?

I think your mechanic is taking advantage of you and your lack of mechanical knowledge. Find a new mechanic. Take a look in your owners manual they should have a schedule of items that need to be done at 75K miles. The fuel system flush is a scam. The brake flush is not needed. Water pump should not be needed unless its leaking or you are replacing your timing chain(usually around 100k). Cooling system flush might not hurt if you haven't done it. Air filter you should be able to do yourself. Trans flush should be listed in your service manual if needed. Plugs are 50/50 it wouldn't hurt if he was already in there but should be good to 100K. Check tire prices on tire rack or costco.

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:43:14 PM EST

[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:
They are raping you on the parts. Timing belt,water pump, tensioners, air filter, plugs, are almost double the price that anyone can buy them for at a parts store and these places would get a discount off of the "walk in" price.

Labor seems high too.

Of course the parts price is high. If they don't make money on the parts, and the part fails, they have to eat the labor on replacing it. On the rare occasion that I take in side work, I typically charge about 80% mark up on parts. I guarantee my work. I used to be willing to use carry in parts, and learned the hard way. A friend brought his car to me to fix, he was having money problems and needed the car for work, so I agreed to help him out. I took the car in, figured out what was wrong, and priced good quality parts, he bitched about the price on the parts, went to Autozone and bought a lifetime warranty part. I out it in, everything was good, for six months. The Autozone part went bad, my friend told me "no big deal, the part has a lifetime warranty, it won't cost you anything to replace it again". It did cost me alright, I pulled the part, took it to Autozone, got a free replacement, and used up the rest of my day off putting the part on the car. It also cost me the trust of a friend, I told him I wanted to be paid for doing the job again, and he got all pissy, saying he had already paid me, and the part had a lifetime warranty, so it wouldn't cost me anything. It did cost me, it cost me the better part of a day off, it cost me the aggravation of working on an old shitbox for free, and it cost me the trust of a friend who felt I had tried to rip him off. A mechanic who doesn't make money on parts isn't going to be around for long. A customer who insists on using crappy aftermarket parts, and poorly rebuilt parts is never going to find a trustworthy mechanic. The only mechanics who don't make anything on parts are guys who are so shady, that they know they aren't going to do any free rework ever, or so inexperienced that they do not understand the reasons for installing good parts, and the need to charge for parts, if you don't you will lose money.

I happily install customer supplied parts.
They sign a waiver that says "No Warranty".

Edit: The sheer amount of ignorance in this thread makes my head hurt.

"Brake flush is not needed."
"Only replace the water pump if it's leaking"
"Plugs last 100k."
"You don't need to change coolant."

Edit 2:
Buy a shop manual and some tools. Do some yourself. Pay a competent independent to do the TB/WP/BSB/Rollers. Get the tires done at a good independent. Order from the Tire Rack.

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:43:47 PM EST

[#35]

Quoted:
Is the car running right now? If so you do not really need any of those things. Take it in every three months for a oil change plus one thing on that list.

Is your water pump leaking? If not you dont need a new one. Water pumps are simple to diagnose. If there is coolant running out onto your driveway then you need a new water pump, otherwise drive on.

The timing belt/ water pump might not be a bad idea but I would take it somewhere else. IIRC those cars have a "interference" engine and if the timing belt breaks the pistons make contact with the valves and can trash pistons, valves, head and costs lots to fix. Your owners manual should tell you when the timing belt should be replaced for your particular car (usually between 60K and 100K miles I think) and it,s a good idea to replace the water pump at the same time while you have things apart because it's behind the timing belt assembly.

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:45:17 PM EST

[#36]

If you don't want to do any maintenance yourself at least find a good independent mechanic through friends referral.

I just wouldn't trust my car to Firestone's shops. You might be OK with this one but I think they're generally a last choice.

I'd leave off the fuel system flush, brake system flush, ignition work, and air cleaner, trans flush, ......if you want to save some money on things I think they're just throwing in to see if you'll buy.

Ok with the waterpump (if there's a leak), cooling system work and the oil change. I think you just had a belt changed right...?

I'd get the tires at Costco. Maybe it needs an alignment, maybe not. By then you've hopefully found a trust-worthy mechanic.

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:49:29 PM EST

[#37]

The "fuel system tune up", "Flush brake system", and "transmission fluid flush" are all thing that mechanics try to get suckers to fall for.

Couple that with the so called "discounts" on everything, and it screams rip off. He's basically trying to sell you everything that shop offers all at once. Stop going to chain stores.

$32 dollars for an air filter, yeah the labor better be free.

The timing belt and waterpump seems a little early for a 2.4l 4 cyl. Check to see what mitsubishi says the recommended interval is for timing belt replacement, i bet its closer to 100k.

The plugs dont need to be changed until you start getting misfires or check engine lights, he's not even doing the full tune up, just plugs.

He's even charging you for the tire balance "parts", even though he wont know how many weights he'll need until after the tires are mounted. That like charging you for the soap to wash his hands and the paper for the estimate.

Run away.

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:53:01 PM EST

[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:
They are raping you on the parts. Timing belt,water pump, tensioners, air filter, plugs, are almost double the price that anyone can buy them for at a parts store and these places would get a discount off of the "walk in" price.

Labor seems high too.

Of course the parts price is high. If they don't make money on the parts, and the part fails, they have to eat the labor on replacing it. On the rare occasion that I take in side work, I typically charge about 80% mark up on parts. I guarantee my work. I used to be willing to use carry in parts, and learned the hard way. A friend brought his car to me to fix, he was having money problems and needed the car for work, so I agreed to help him out. I took the car in, figured out what was wrong, and priced good quality parts, he bitched about the price on the parts, went to Autozone and bought a lifetime warranty part. I out it in, everything was good, for six months. The Autozone part went bad, my friend told me "no big deal, the part has a lifetime warranty, it won't cost you anything to replace it again". It did cost me alright, I pulled the part, took it to Autozone, got a free replacement, and used up the rest of my day off putting the part on the car. It also cost me the trust of a friend, I told him I wanted to be paid for doing the job again, and he got all pissy, saying he had already paid me, and the part had a lifetime warranty, so it wouldn't cost me anything. It did cost me, it cost me the better part of a day off, it cost me the aggravation of working on an old shitbox for free, and it cost me the trust of a friend who felt I had tried to rip him off. A mechanic who doesn't make money on parts isn't going to be around for long. A customer who insists on using crappy aftermarket parts, and poorly rebuilt parts is never going to find a trustworthy mechanic. The only mechanics who don't make anything on parts are guys who are so shady, that they know they aren't going to do any free rework ever, or so inexperienced that they do not understand the reasons for installing good parts, and the need to charge for parts, if you don't you will lose money.

I happily install customer supplied parts.
They sign a waiver that says "No Warranty".

Edit: The sheer amount of ignorance in this thread makes my head hurt.

"Brake flush is not needed."
"Only replace the water pump if it's leaking"
"Plugs last 100k."
"You don't need to change coolant."

Edit 2:
Buy a shop manual and some tools. Do some yourself. Pay a competent independent to do the TB/WP/BSB/Rollers. Get the tires done at a good independent. Order from the Tire Rack.

Most car threads in GD are like pissing up a rope.

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:53:42 PM EST

[#39]

Quoted:

The "fuel system tune up", "Flush brake system", and "transmission fluid flush" are all thing that mechanics try to get suckers to fall for.

Couple that with the so called "discounts" on everything, and it screams rip off. He's basically trying to sell you everything that shop offers all at once. Stop going to chain stores.

$32 dollars for an air filter, yeah the labor better be free.

The timing belt and waterpump seems a little early for a 2.4l 4 cyl. Check to see what mitsubishi says the recommended interval is for timing belt replacement, i bet its closer to 100k.

The plugs dont need to be changed until you start getting misfires or check engine lights, he's not even doing the full tune up, just plugs.

He's even charging you for the tire balance "parts", even though he wont know how many weights he'll need until after the tires are mounted. That like charging you for the soap to wash his hands and the paper for the estimate.

Run away.

I try to keep my vehicle in top running condition and avoid failures on the road, that's why I do preventive maintenance.

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:55:35 PM EST

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:
They are raping you on the parts. Timing belt,water pump, tensioners, air filter, plugs, are almost double the price that anyone can buy them for at a parts store and these places would get a discount off of the "walk in" price.

Labor seems high too.

Of course the parts price is high. If they don't make money on the parts, and the part fails, they have to eat the labor on replacing it. On the rare occasion that I take in side work, I typically charge about 80% mark up on parts. I guarantee my work. I used to be willing to use carry in parts, and learned the hard way. A friend brought his car to me to fix, he was having money problems and needed the car for work, so I agreed to help him out. I took the car in, figured out what was wrong, and priced good quality parts, he bitched about the price on the parts, went to Autozone and bought a lifetime warranty part. I out it in, everything was good, for six months. The Autozone part went bad, my friend told me "no big deal, the part has a lifetime warranty, it won't cost you anything to replace it again". It did cost me alright, I pulled the part, took it to Autozone, got a free replacement, and used up the rest of my day off putting the part on the car. It also cost me the trust of a friend, I told him I wanted to be paid for doing the job again, and he got all pissy, saying he had already paid me, and the part had a lifetime warranty, so it wouldn't cost me anything. It did cost me, it cost me the better part of a day off, it cost me the aggravation of working on an old shitbox for free, and it cost me the trust of a friend who felt I had tried to rip him off. A mechanic who doesn't make money on parts isn't going to be around for long. A customer who insists on using crappy aftermarket parts, and poorly rebuilt parts is never going to find a trustworthy mechanic. The only mechanics who don't make anything on parts are guys who are so shady, that they know they aren't going to do any free rework ever, or so inexperienced that they do not understand the reasons for installing good parts, and the need to charge for parts, if you don't you will lose money.

I happily install customer supplied parts.
They sign a waiver that says "No Warranty".

Edit: The sheer amount of ignorance in this thread makes my head hurt.

"Brake flush is not needed."
"Only replace the water pump if it's leaking"
"Plugs last 100k."
"You don't need to change coolant."

I no longer work on cars for a living, I do however once in a while take a car in, and I have learned to just not bother with shitty parts, if they insist on shitty parts, they can't afford me anyway. I don't work on cars to save anybody money, I tell them right up front that they can probably have the job done for the same price at a dealer, probably cheaper at an independent shop. However I do guarantee my work, and don't give them a hard time about it. If my work was not done right, or the parts I supplied failed, it is on me and I fix it on my own dime. I have only had to redo work a few times, all but one were parts failures, on another I didn't properly tighten a power steering pump, and the belt began to squeal. Almost all the parts that I had to replace were from either Autozone or Advanced Auto, and I hadn't charged a penny over cost for them . There is nothing worse than spending a beautiful Saturday morning replacing a crappy Advanced Auto starter for the second time in six months, because the damned thing failed. If you do it for a living, and are hard up for work, then I guess you do what you have to do.

Even if they sign a waiver, they will expect you to do the work if the part fails. Sure, you can tell the to piss up a rope, you bought the part, it is your problem, but in their minds you are the one that ripped them off, not the place that sold them shitty parts. The labor is almost always the expensive part, and there is just no reason to put my reputation on the line for a cheapskate customer. Those customers are not likely to be repeat customers, and are going to select a place for repairs based only on price, and once their shitty part fails, they will bad mouth you to anybody who will listen. In large cities this may not be a problem, but in smaller towns a little lip service goes a long way.

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:55:46 PM EST

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:
They are raping you on the parts. Timing belt,water pump, tensioners, air filter, plugs, are almost double the price that anyone can buy them for at a parts store and these places would get a discount off of the "walk in" price.

Labor seems high too.

Of course the parts price is high. If they don't make money on the parts, and the part fails, they have to eat the labor on replacing it. On the rare occasion that I take in side work, I typically charge about 80% mark up on parts. I guarantee my work. I used to be willing to use carry in parts, and learned the hard way. A friend brought his car to me to fix, he was having money problems and needed the car for work, so I agreed to help him out. I took the car in, figured out what was wrong, and priced good quality parts, he bitched about the price on the parts, went to Autozone and bought a lifetime warranty part. I out it in, everything was good, for six months. The Autozone part went bad, my friend told me "no big deal, the part has a lifetime warranty, it won't cost you anything to replace it again". It did cost me alright, I pulled the part, took it to Autozone, got a free replacement, and used up the rest of my day off putting the part on the car. It also cost me the trust of a friend, I told him I wanted to be paid for doing the job again, and he got all pissy, saying he had already paid me, and the part had a lifetime warranty, so it wouldn't cost me anything. It did cost me, it cost me the better part of a day off, it cost me the aggravation of working on an old shitbox for free, and it cost me the trust of a friend who felt I had tried to rip him off. A mechanic who doesn't make money on parts isn't going to be around for long. A customer who insists on using crappy aftermarket parts, and poorly rebuilt parts is never going to find a trustworthy mechanic. The only mechanics who don't make anything on parts are guys who are so shady, that they know they aren't going to do any free rework ever, or so inexperienced that they do not understand the reasons for installing good parts, and the need to charge for parts, if you don't you will lose money.

I happily install customer supplied parts.
They sign a waiver that says "No Warranty".

Edit: The sheer amount of ignorance in this thread makes my head hurt.

"Brake flush is not needed."
"Only replace the water pump if it's leaking"
"Plugs last 100k."
"You don't need to change coolant."

Edit 2:
Buy a shop manual and some tools. Do some yourself. Pay a competent independent to do the TB/WP/BSB/Rollers. Get the tires done at a good independent. Order from the Tire Rack.

You may need to add coolant, you may need to change coolant. But a coolant flush involves injecting pressurized air into the radiator and can cause problems.

Since the late 90's most car manufacturers use coolant that is good for 10 years. Hell my car only needs an oil change every 7,500 miles. But that doesnt stop grease monkeys from trying to sell me one every 3,000.

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:56:55 PM EST

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:
They are raping you on the parts. Timing belt,water pump, tensioners, air filter, plugs, are almost double the price that anyone can buy them for at a parts store and these places would get a discount off of the "walk in" price.

Labor seems high too.

Of course the parts price is high. If they don't make money on the parts, and the part fails, they have to eat the labor on replacing it. On the rare occasion that I take in side work, I typically charge about 80% mark up on parts. I guarantee my work. I used to be willing to use carry in parts, and learned the hard way. A friend brought his car to me to fix, he was having money problems and needed the car for work, so I agreed to help him out. I took the car in, figured out what was wrong, and priced good quality parts, he bitched about the price on the parts, went to Autozone and bought a lifetime warranty part. I out it in, everything was good, for six months. The Autozone part went bad, my friend told me "no big deal, the part has a lifetime warranty, it won't cost you anything to replace it again". It did cost me alright, I pulled the part, took it to Autozone, got a free replacement, and used up the rest of my day off putting the part on the car. It also cost me the trust of a friend, I told him I wanted to be paid for doing the job again, and he got all pissy, saying he had already paid me, and the part had a lifetime warranty, so it wouldn't cost me anything. It did cost me, it cost me the better part of a day off, it cost me the aggravation of working on an old shitbox for free, and it cost me the trust of a friend who felt I had tried to rip him off. A mechanic who doesn't make money on parts isn't going to be around for long. A customer who insists on using crappy aftermarket parts, and poorly rebuilt parts is never going to find a trustworthy mechanic. The only mechanics who don't make anything on parts are guys who are so shady, that they know they aren't going to do any free rework ever, or so inexperienced that they do not understand the reasons for installing good parts, and the need to charge for parts, if you don't you will lose money.

I didn't say they shouldn't make money on the parts. I just think 100% mark up is kind of excessive. If they are using decent quality parts the failure rate should be very low.

Just my opinion.

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:57:25 PM EST

[#43]

Quoted:
The "fuel system tune up", "Flush brake system", and "transmission fluid flush" are all thing that mechanics try to get suckers to fall for.

Couple that with the so called "discounts" on everything, and it screams rip off. He's basically trying to sell you everything that shop offers all at once. Stop going to chain stores.

$32 dollars for an air filter, yeah the labor better be free.

The timing belt and waterpump seems a little early for a 2.4l 4 cyl. Check to see what mitsubishi says the recommended interval is for timing belt replacement, i bet its closer to 100k.

The plugs dont need to be changed until you start getting misfires or check engine lights, he's not even doing the full tune up, just plugs.

He's even charging you for the tire balance "parts", even though he wont know how many weights he'll need until after the tires are mounted. That like charging you for the soap to wash his hands and the paper for the estimate.

Run away.

WTF? That's retarded. There is a gradual degradation in performance with wear. Replacing before complete failure - which, BTW, can result in serious damage to the engine, let alone catalytic converters, is a much better idea.
And brake fluid flushes are not bullshit. Brake fluid is hygroscopic. That means it absorbs water. That's why it gets dark. Water makes for spongy brake pedals, a lower boiling point to the fluid, and corrosion in the system. That's why pretty much EVERY manufacturer recommends two year replacement intervals. Not bleeding, but flushing and bleeding.
And finally, Mitsubishi recommends a 60k replacement interval on the timing belt.

Posted: 10/30/2009 1:58:49 PM EST

[#44]

did you check your owners manual for the service intervals to see how they compare? though i'm not a mitsubishi tech, i'm thinking you are at least overdue for a timing belt change. isn't the interval for the 2.4 60,000 miles? that's probably the one i'd consider doing first. i seem to recall certain transmissions were a bit fuss. you may be way overdue in that area too.

Posted: 10/30/2009 2:03:10 PM EST

[#45]

There is nothing on this list that I would pay someone else to do except the tire mount and balance, and walmart will do that for $15/tire including disposal. You don't need new valve stems unless you *need* new valve stems.

Even alignment (thrust / toe, all four) is easy to do yourself with a ruler and some string.

Posted: 10/30/2009 2:03:59 PM EST

[#46]

Thanks for the replies guys!

As per the car's manual, the following things are recommended at 60K miles:

Replace coolant
Replace transmission fluid
Replace spark plugs
Replace timing belt

and a long list of other things.

The water pump and tensioner (I was told by this mechanic, another mechanic, and from another thread I posted here on ARFCOM) are added simply b/c of the labor that's already being done for the timing belt and the fact that these part's lifespan seem to be pretty similar.

Yeah, I guess the air filter is pretty easy to do on my own.

The tires are a LITTLE high but not by much compared to Costco.

Posted: 10/30/2009 2:05:59 PM EST

[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:
They are raping you on the parts. Timing belt,water pump, tensioners, air filter, plugs, are almost double the price that anyone can buy them for at a parts store and these places would get a discount off of the "walk in" price.

Labor seems high too.

Of course the parts price is high. If they don't make money on the parts, and the part fails, they have to eat the labor on replacing it. On the rare occasion that I take in side work, I typically charge about 80% mark up on parts. I guarantee my work. I used to be willing to use carry in parts, and learned the hard way. A friend brought his car to me to fix, he was having money problems and needed the car for work, so I agreed to help him out. I took the car in, figured out what was wrong, and priced good quality parts, he bitched about the price on the parts, went to Autozone and bought a lifetime warranty part. I out it in, everything was good, for six months. The Autozone part went bad, my friend told me "no big deal, the part has a lifetime warranty, it won't cost you anything to replace it again". It did cost me alright, I pulled the part, took it to Autozone, got a free replacement, and used up the rest of my day off putting the part on the car. It also cost me the trust of a friend, I told him I wanted to be paid for doing the job again, and he got all pissy, saying he had already paid me, and the part had a lifetime warranty, so it wouldn't cost me anything. It did cost me, it cost me the better part of a day off, it cost me the aggravation of working on an old shitbox for free, and it cost me the trust of a friend who felt I had tried to rip him off. A mechanic who doesn't make money on parts isn't going to be around for long. A customer who insists on using crappy aftermarket parts, and poorly rebuilt parts is never going to find a trustworthy mechanic. The only mechanics who don't make anything on parts are guys who are so shady, that they know they aren't going to do any free rework ever, or so inexperienced that they do not understand the reasons for installing good parts, and the need to charge for parts, if you don't you will lose money.

I happily install customer supplied parts.
They sign a waiver that says "No Warranty".

Edit: The sheer amount of ignorance in this thread makes my head hurt.

"Brake flush is not needed."
"Only replace the water pump if it's leaking"
"Plugs last 100k."
"You don't need to change coolant."

I no longer work on cars for a living, I do however once in a while take a car in, and I have learned to just not bother with shitty parts, if they insist on shitty parts, they can't afford me anyway. I don't work on cars to save anybody money, I tell them right up front that they can probably have the job done for the same price at a dealer, probably cheaper at an independent shop. However I do guarantee my work, and don't give them a hard time about it. If my work was not done right, or the parts I supplied failed, it is on me and I fix it on my own dime. I have only had to redo work a few times, all but one were parts failures, on another I didn't properly tighten a power steering pump, and the belt began to squeal. Almost all the parts that I had to replace were from either Autozone or Advanced Auto, and I hadn't charged a penny over cost for them . There is nothing worse than spending a beautiful Saturday morning replacing a crappy Advanced Auto starter for the second time in six months, because the damned thing failed. If you do it for a living, and are hard up for work, then I guess you do what you have to do.

Even if they sign a waiver, they will expect you to do the work if the part fails. Sure, you can tell the to piss up a rope, you bought the part, it is your problem, but in their minds you are the one that ripped them off, not the place that sold them shitty parts. The labor is almost always the expensive part, and there is just no reason to put my reputation on the line for a cheapskate customer. Those customers are not likely to be repeat customers, and are going to select a place for repairs based only on price, and once their shitty part fails, they will bad mouth you to anybody who will listen. In large cities this may not be a problem, but in smaller towns a little lip service goes a long way.

I have a long spiel I give them.
I've never had an issue when it's explained properly, and it's basically what you said. I'll cover my labor - if I screwed up, I'll cover it. But if it's the part's failure, it's not on me.
I have a self-selecting customer base, and they seem to get that.

And of course, I'm expensive enough that they generally don't bring me crappy parts. It's usually aftermarket performance stuff. And I'm glad I don't have to warranty the crap some people are happy to pay good money for.

Like this $7k exhaust with 5k miles on it:

Posted: 10/30/2009 2:09:06 PM EST

[#48]

Quoted:
Thanks for the replies guys!

As per the car's manual, the following things are recommended at 60K miles:

Replace coolant
Replace transmission fluid
Replace spark plugs
Replace timing belt

and a long list of other things.

The water pump and tensioner (I was told by this mechanic, another mechanic, and from another thread I posted here on ARFCOM) are added simply b/c of the labor that's already being done for the timing belt and the fact that these part's lifespan seem to be pretty similar.

Yeah, I guess the air filter is pretty easy to do on my own.

The tires are a LITTLE high but not by much compared to Costco.

Notice that your owners manual recommends replace. Replace means drain and refill. Not Flush flush means using air, water or chemicals to force every bit of fluid out and then refill. Its more expensive, unneeded and can even cause problems.

Posted: 10/30/2009 2:10:58 PM EST

[#49]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Thanks for the replies guys!

As per the car's manual, the following things are recommended at 60K miles:

Replace coolant
Replace transmission fluid
Replace spark plugs
Replace timing belt

and a long list of other things.

The water pump and tensioner (I was told by this mechanic, another mechanic, and from another thread I posted here on ARFCOM) are added simply b/c of the labor that's already being done for the timing belt and the fact that these part's lifespan seem to be pretty similar.

Yeah, I guess the air filter is pretty easy to do on my own.

The tires are a LITTLE high but not by much compared to Costco.

Notice that your owners manual recommends replace. Replace means drain and refill. Not Flush flush means using air, water or chemicals to force every bit of fluid out and then refill. Its more expensive, unneeded and can even cause problems.

I agree with this except for brake fluid - mostly because it was called a flush and bleed long before people used machines to help out on it. I like vacuum bleeders to remove all the old fluid, and then a good manual bleed to eliminate any air.

Posted: 10/30/2009 2:15:07 PM EST

[#50]

Quoted:

Quoted:

My wife's car has 75K+ miles on it. It has never had anything done to it other than routine oil changes, brakes, etc. The mechanic told me that her car NEEDS all this stuff at this time. What do you think?

I think your mechanic is taking advantage of you and your lack of mechanical knowledge. Find a new mechanic. Take a look in your owners manual they should have a schedule of items that need to be done at 75K miles. The fuel system flush is a scam. The brake flush is not needed. Water pump should not be needed unless its leaking or you are replacing your timing chain(usually around 100k). Cooling system flush might not hurt if you haven't done it. Air filter you should be able to do yourself. Trans flush should be listed in your service manual if needed. Plugs are 50/50 it wouldn't hurt if he was already in there but should be good to 100K. Check tire prices on tire rack or costco.

He's not going to a 'mechanic', he's going to a car-part store with installation services....

EG 'Firestone'....

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - ARFCOM Mechanics: Is this estimate ok? $1700??? (Page 1 of 4)

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