Posted: 12/15/2016 10:43:48 AM EDT
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In the end of October I sent in two upper and one lower receiver to receive anodizing. Since its been a month I thought I'd contact Victor and see were he is re: my work.
This is his scary reply: Hi Mark, I apologize for not getting back to you sooner, we been real busy here. On Nov. 8th ATF conducted a routine inspection of our facility. During this inspection a handful of receivers (like your lower) was set aside for further review. I was asked not to work on them, till they make a determination. We are still waiting on ATF, hopefully we will hear something from them soon. I will keep you posted, any questions please let me know. Victor No further explanations. My lower in question is an 80%er that I finished out after having Braceman re-profile and engrave. Will they be confiscated? Will there be reparations? Compensations? .....and my response: Victor, This is quite concerning. What are their questions or concerns? I have had close to the same receiver registered as part of my 607 with no problems, its was approved. Will they be confiscated, destroyed, etc? Do you have insurance for such matters if indeed we dont get them returned? Thank you. |
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Any pictures of how your lower looked before it headed their way? I'm wondering why they would set it aside for further review. only thing I can come up with, is that it somehow didn't have the required engraving on it NAME, LOCATION, CALIBER, SN etc.. or font height, depth. yeah, I know I will get the "but ATF doesn't require that for home builds" which would be good if you did the entire work from start to finish yourself. but, if you're sending that once 80 percent lower as a 100 percent lower out to have finish work to a FFL, then how is he suppose to log that receiver in his book if the required markings isn't on it???? |
| Just off the phone with Victor at US Anodizing. Here's the poop. The ATF agent has concerns regarding the fake sear pin engraving. Wants to check and make sure that that engraving doesn't classify those receivers as MGs, and I don't mean the car. Victor's only holding aside about 4 receivers that have these "sear pin " engravings. Sounds like all others are fine. Uppers arent even on the radar I guess. |
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Just off the phone with Victor at US Anodizing. Here's the poop. The ATF agent has concerns regarding the fake sear pin engraving. Wants to check and make sure that that engraving doesn't classify those receivers as MGs, and I don't mean the car. Victor's only holding aside about 4 receivers that have these "sear pin " engravings. Sounds like all others are fine. Uppers arent even on the radar I guess. What! How could that even remotely be considered a mg. Out of curiosity did you mill the shelf down and remove the sear bump? |
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Any pictures of how your lower looked before it headed their way? I'm wondering why they would set it aside for further review. Heres a pic showing the "issue". This is the actual receiver in question. Attached File |
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Is the sear pin engraving in the actual spot for the sear pin? I thought the engraved ones were offset a bit. If its in the correct spot where the sear pin would actually be, I could see the ATF being the ATF about it. Good question. I'll have to ask Braceman that one. He did mine. |
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What! How could that even remotely be considered a mg. Out of curiosity did you mill the shelf down and remove the sear bump?
My receiver was not cut to allow an auto sear and Braceman tells me he offsets the engraving slightly. This info has been passed on to Victor as well. |
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Just off the phone with Victor at US Anodizing. Here's the poop. The ATF agent has concerns regarding the fake sear pin engraving. Wants to check and make sure that that engraving doesn't classify those receivers as MGs, and I don't mean the car. Victor's only holding aside about 4 receivers that have these "sear pin " engravings. Sounds like all others are fine. Uppers arent even on the radar I guess. I thought it might be that or a full FCG pocket. Looking at your picture, the faux sear pin engraving is clearly offset to the rear - over 1/16" off. I'm thinking it's just a new agent who wants to be thorough. I expect they will spend a little more time with it and let it go. |
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What! How could that even remotely be considered a mg. Out of curiosity did you mill the shelf down and remove the sear bump? My receiver was not cut to allow an auto sear and Braceman tells me he offsets the engraving slightly. This info has been passed on to Victor as well. your lower is cut out to not take a mil spec. auto sear only, dias thats different. |
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If the issue is with the fake auto-sear engraving, it is likely a new agent who doesn't know about them.
It should be settled in short order. There was a similar thing on AKfiles in which an ATF Agent gave a guy some grief for having the selector markings and notches on his AK. The agent thought the markings and notches were what made an AK full-auto. |
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If the issue is with the fake auto-sear engraving, it is likely a new agent who doesn't know about them. It should be settled in short order. There was a similar thing on AKfiles in which an ATF Agent gave a guy some grief for having the selector markings and notches on his AK. The agent thought the markings and notches were what made an AK full-auto. |
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how is he suppose to log that receiver in his book if the required markings isn't on it???? Same as any other unserialled firearm, the instructions for which are provided to every single FFL holder, if they read their regs. Unserialled receivers are logged as "NSN" (no serial number). |
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i dont think he will take them with out serial numbers. Yeah, and that's fine as his business policy - just pointing out it's not illegal or even that unusual, especially for those who deal routinely with older (pre-1968) firearms, to acquire and dispose of firearms with no serial numbers. |
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My receiver has a serial number on it. A buddy of mine passed away unexpectedly on Easter and this is a tribute gun to him. I used his birthday for it. sorry to hear. hopefully it all gets resolved quickly. im working on a gray anodize too. hopefully i can help the retro crowd. |
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That might make it even worse - they could still accuse you of marking where the sear pin goes. With it machined out, at least they can't argue intent. Lol... I've marked a hunk of non gun aluminum with a sear pin mark that's 1/16" from where a real one would be. BS like that is why the inspecting agent should be able to sued for being ignorant. |
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Yeah, I don't think there would be any problem even if it was marked in the exact correct spot.
I've seen ATF agents who were not visually able to determine if a DIAS, LL, or sear were present in broken-down lowers. Most don't have a clue. They just saw a PowerPoint or PDF on it once. |
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Yeah, I don't think there would be any problem even if it was marked in the exact correct spot. I've seen ATF agents who were not visually able to determine if a DIAS, LL, or sear were present in broken-down lowers. Most don't have a clue. They just saw a PowerPoint or PDF on it once. I agree completely. A fake third hole engraving provides as much "constructive intent" as engraving the word "AUTO" does. |
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I have only seen one case where a resto lower was actually confiscated and destroyed and they attempted to charge the owner with illegal manufacture of a machine gun. The reason, was there was an engraved pin hole in the exact position of the actually pin would sit and the ATF attempted to say the engraver was providing a correct location for an illegal part so that the owner could finish it himself.
The lower was destroyed, but the case was thrown out by a Judge who actually knew the laws, what they said and what can and cannot be legally done. It is clear that this engraved pin position is not in the correct position to mill out and actually manufacture a MG as well as the FCG pocket has not been milled in such a manner as to allow FA parts to be installed in the correct manner position to allow FA operation. It sounds like they ran into one of the over achievers at the ATF and he wants to impress the boss with his due diligence. But as I have said in other threads about what you can and cannot do, it all comes down to the judgement of the agent on what the "INTENT" was. And the owner of the gun does not get to decide intent, the guy with the badge does. |
| I cant speak for other places, but when i went to have my completed 80%'ers to get cerecoated, it was alot of "no's, we wont touch 80% lowers w/o a serial" I found 1 place that said sure as long as i hung around till it was done. at this point i had choice. thankfully the guy was cool and said just to stay in the area, so i went to a few other gun shops and had lunch. |
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ATF has a slew of determination letters out there that said if an 80% receiver even has a locating mark, dimple, etc. on the receiver for locating the trigger and hammer pins it is classified as a firearm.
Not saying it is the case, but it is possible they may make the same argument in this regard to it being a machine gun. I have the determination letters but I'd need time to dig them up and post them. In the middle of a lot of briefs. |
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Lets not forget the TROY production GAU5 replicas, that they don't seem to have an issue with. So I doubt this will amount to anything at all. http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/img_0622.jpeg I know "authenticity" and all that but I cringe when I see a receiver with the "Auto" marking. I would not want to have to have to try to explain to a not-firearms-knowledgeable cop or G-man that it is not real, even if the selector will not move to that position. I can see the possibility of someone's rifle being confiscated "for evaluation". And a pet peeve: The Troy rifle pictured has a selector that doesn't detent at 90 degrees. That is caused by either a mis-machined selector or a mis-machined selector detent bore in the receiver. I'm constantly amazed that manufacturers will allow pics of their product with an out-of-position selector. I've rejected receivers and selectors for this problem. Nit picky, maybe, but it just isn't "right". ETA: and it looks like the hand guard snap ring that holds the weld spring into the delta ring is hanging loose. |
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I know "authenticity" and all that but I cringe when I see a receiver with the "Auto" marking. I would not want to have to have to try to explain to a not-firearms-knowledgeable cop or G-man that it is not real, even if the selector will not move to that position. I can see the possibility of someone's rifle being confiscated "for evaluation". And a pet peeve: The Troy rifle pictured has a selector that doesn't detent at 90 degrees. That is caused by either a mis-machined selector or a mis-machined selector detent bore in the receiver. I'm constantly amazed that manufacturers will allow pics of their product with an out-of-position selector. I've rejected receivers and selectors for this problem. Nit picky, maybe, but it just isn't "right". ETA: and it looks like the hand guard snap ring that holds the weld spring into the delta ring is hanging loose. |
| BROvet, I think Clay was asking for clarification on Diesel's statement about the selector NOT being dead 90 degrees to the receiver when in the fire/semi position. Looks pretty close....might be a bit of optical illusion due to the faux engraved happy pin being slightly off location. |