It is hard to deny we are less free, at the very least.



 

You sir are completely wrong. Maybe Pleasantville, USA is your utopia, but you are sorely mistaken.


 

And that was my point. I'm 46, and have watched as my freedoms have eroded, and PC gone out of control.

Mankind?

Maybe if you average out the good with the bad.

But I'm a bit more cynical in that I won't consider it civilized unless we grow beyond the urban "culture".   In other words, when impoliteness and brazen ignorant behavior is no longer protected under political correctness.   When the concept or often times accurate stereotype of "acting black" is tossed on the trash heap.   When it is argued that it is wrong to pass laws that punish law abiding/moral citizenry due to the actions of a blatantly criminal segment of society.

I'll get on board with the notion and consider us evolved or civilized.


Saying we are the most civilized we have ever been is kinda like not seeing the forest for the trees.    We got a whole lot more shoveling to do before we dig ourselves out of the shit house.

Doubtful.



 

NFA was done in 1934.



 

Shit, I'm 30 and can see the same things, even since I was a kid.



 

Good on you. Many here buy into the " we are more free today" bullshit.

Not if you have lived with your eyes open.

Why don't you go for a walk and see how many kids are wearing leg braces because of Polio? Or is that just catering to the opinions of the minority as well?








And this.

lets be real, LBJ was another racist prick who used the CRA as a way to exploit blacks






then theres the great society which destroyed black culture.





 

Ah, yes, the good old days when the Democratic Party ran the South. How fondly I look back on them, and how dearly I wish that I too could have had the chance to participate in good-ole-boy machine politics.



 

 

And your point is?



 

The more things change the more they stay the same.



 

Are you implying that politics in the American South is as closed as it was 60-70 years ago? That's clearly not the case.



Here's a map of the results of the 1956 election for the House (85th Congress). Red = Republican, Blue = Democrat. Different shades represent varying degrees of control.







And the most recent elections (111th Congress):







 

I'll have to argue with you tomorrow. The surest way to win an argument with me at night is to wait.



 

1880's....

If you're familiar with German history, the 1880s were kind of a low point. William I was weak and ineffectual.



 

But you are.

You think politicians have changed? They call it Chicago politics on the dem side now.

+1

There have been alot of unintended consequences from laws and policies passed after this era. Stuff from the 60's, 70's and even 80's really screwed up our country in my opinion. I think there's some psychological stuff that goes along with the overbearing, freedom killing, nanny state laws. People are treated like children/idiots so they respond by acting the part.

If people were allowed to fail and make mistakes (and learn from them) there would be a resurgence in personal responsibility. The problem is we've back ourselves into a corner by letting this crap go on for so long. There are generations now that haven't the slightest clue what real freedom is. If we were to tear down these bullshit laws regarding drugs, guns, welfare, ect.. we'd have an extreme reaction because people wouldn't be accustomed to handling that type of  real freedom.  

This is my long winded belief concerning why we're so "uncivilized" compared to earlier times.

Shouldn't really have said 1880's but the empire up until the 1880's. Things didn't start to really go to shit until the late 1880s, and obviously worse after that.

However, for what it's worth, it was a glorious empire.

Somewhere between 1890 and 1912 was probably the height of the Empire.



"Bear your weapons
so that for a
thousand years no Chinaman will dare even to squint at a German."



Wouldn't really say that the German Empire was the height of civilization though, since I'm a fairly strict Constitutionalist...



 

Sure as hell don't think right now is.

Can't argue with that.



 

Actually, not really. Not arguing against the concept that the 1950's were a very prosperous and remarkable era in our nation's history, mind you. But homogeneity is not in and of itself a determinate of crime rate, or quality of living. Case in point, consider the largest (100k+ population) cities in the United States. At my last perusal of census data, the most homogeneous large city in the U.S. was Detroit, Michigan.

That particular city has a particularly large dose of homogeneity, yet also has some remarkably dilapidated infrastructure and some particularly bleak neighborhoods. Crime is not unknown here either.

Johannesburg, South Africa is another VERY homogeneous city and it's not particularly someplace I want to walk through while naked and carrying sacks of currency. However, Tokyo is largely homogeneous as well and while I wouldn't wish to practice nudism there (I'm sure I'd be arrested) I would feel a bit more confident that the police would correctly account for every, single scrap of currency in my possession when they threw me in jail\prison\the loony bin. I might even avoid getting mugged in Tokyo.

I wouldn't be particularly surprised to find if both the most crime-ridden cities in the world and the least crime-ridden cities in the world were largely homogeneous. If a particular culture, or nation, or people, has a long history of civility and rule of law then I would expect cities made up almost entirely of individuals from said cultures, nations or peoples to be largely civil and law-abiding. I imagine the opposite is just as true.

What's wrong with being white?

Should be eliminated to make way for your progress?

Hmm. That begs an interesting question.

Do you think any other major ethnic or cultural group on the planet would have treated minorities more fairly than white Christian Americans did, on average, in the 1950's?

I mean, if the world was controlled by a 1950's communist Chinese majority, would white christian men be treated any better than we treated black Americans at that time? Or would they have been lined up and shot?

If the world was controlled by a 1950's Latin American dictator, and his fawning supporters, would white Christian Americans have been treated as well as American blacks were at the time?

If the world was controlled by a 1950's African tribal chieftain and his tribe (since much of the Marxist terrorism in colonial Africa would not get into full swing until later decades, and I want to keep this contemporary), do you think white Christian American men and women would be treated as well or better than we treated American blacks at that time?

If you have any intellectual honesty, or rationality, you'll probably agree that despite the sins and civil rights abuses of America during the middle part of the 20th century that in the grand scheme of human history we were quite possibly the most humane and liberty minded people to have ever walked the face of the Earth.

Granted, being forced to use separate and often inferior facilities is demeaning and unjust but I'd still prefer being a segregated minority in 1950's America to being a white farmer in South Africa or Zimbabwe during the troubled times in those nations. I grant that facing the possibility of being lynched for the mere accusation of having committed a rape is a horrific abrogation of justice... however I'd rather be an abused minority that has to watch his back around women of a different race in 1950's America than be a Hindu or Christian in some areas of the Muslim world today.

You may wish to invoke Godwin's law and ask if I'd rather be a Jew in 1930's Germany... But you're missing the point that America was not Nazi Germany. We may have rounded up the Americans of Japanese descent within our borders, but we didn't herd them into death camps. If you were to try to compare white straight Christian American men of the 1950's with Nazi's then you're simply showing your own evil bigotry. Would I rather be a Jew in 1950's America than a Kurd in Iraq? Fuck yes.

When criticizing 1950's America for not being perfect, and harping on the evils that those straight white christian men afflicted on the poor ethnic/cultural/sexual minorities, at least come clean and admit honestly that those white Christian straight men and women were a hell of a lot better neighbors and countrymen than the vast majority of the world's other groups would be if THEY had such a majority.

Well, considering that most, if not all, Latin American dictators of the period were Christian males of European descent, I would have to say that they would have been treated much better than American blacks.



 

The 50's were definitely the pinnacle for America. It's been downhill ever since.

Really? A different ethnic outgroup, one having a protestant rather than catholic denomination, speaking a different language and having different customs, would be seen as natural allies?

Given the paternalism and nepotism rife in many of those nations at the time, you think a WASP gringo would have as good of a chance of getting a job right off the street as any native? Interesting assertion.

Do you think an Anglo, born to a poor family in a South American nation of the time (without any family connections to the power brokers), would have a good chance of getting into the best schools as your average off the street Jose? If I'd been raised tapping rubber in the jungle, hadn't ever more than walked to a mission school nearby, do you think I'd be treated any better for being a poor, uneducated white protestant minority than any other poor uneducated Latin American of whatever race?

True.
And you know what is really sad? Who are/were the parents of the hippies?  The ones that brought them into the world and reared them?

Yup.  The "Greatest" Generation. The same generation that are card carrying members of AARP, collecting social security, and using Medicare.

Your probably right with a few exceptions during that time period.  But in some ways I think the West has become too civilized and wimpish compared to the past.

yes yes yes



 

You were doing good before you threw in the ad hominem.  

Tell that to vietnam
 

I remember as a kid some of the older guys arguing about this in the 1960's.

Many said the period 1900-1910 was better than the 1950's.

Problem is..........I CANNOT REMEMBER WHY THEY SAID THAT.

The 60's were also when children started to get major influences from outside the home, the whole sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll thing.  I don't think the "greatest generation" thought they were going to turn into hippies, something that didn't even exist in their time.



It's still happening today.  More and more of what your child learns comes from someone other than a teacher or a parent.  From someone who has no responsibility, and likely does not care what kind of person you turn into.



 

They were a lot less than that in my neck of the woods.  You could get a pretty nice clean 68 Camaro for $2500 and they were one of the more expensive muscle cars.

And no, I do not agree with OP.

i suppose it depends on your definition of "civilized". in much of the western world "civilized" has become synonomous with "legislated"; the more legislated a society becomes the more "civilized" its' people and politicians proclaim it to be.

in my mind, a truely "civilized" society is one in which the people can be left to their own devices without being constantly lorded over by government.

by my definition i'd say that the US is not any more "civilized" than ever before. the people are as inclined to hurt one another as they have always been, so no change on that front.

by what has become the western world's practical definition, the US is MUCH MORE "civilized" than ever before, as the US government can't stop passing laws - thousands upon thousands every term.

Before the Bronze Age, it was still possible to take a horse and leave the territory and laws of your local tribe. No socialized healthcare forcing hospitals to accept anyone to the ER, no separate water fountains or glass ceilings, no pesky kids uploading video of you planting weed on motorists to their facebook accounts.
It was a time of freedom from being pressured by society to learn hydrocode modeling, make steady wages, and buy firearms.
It also was a time before the internet. Like the 1950s, people didn't even know what they didn't know. They were free from the burden of knowledge.

In 2100, some people will look back and long for the good old days before AI-driven nanofactories put humans out of a job. Others might recall the days when people still died of age and disease, when life's brevity gave it meaning. They will be just as wrong as the people yearning for the days when the NFA didn't exist, and Southern trees bore strange fruit.

But aren't the hippies the children of the 40s and 50s couples and their parenting skills?

 

The problem there is that many cultures confuse modernization with westernization.

Agreed.

 

Let me see, if it was 1959 I wouldn't be able to:

 

But you would sure be welcome to pay the very high federal income taxes at the time.

Leave it to Beaver, and Andy Griffith are not documentaries.



It was a fucked up time when not view through the rose colored glasses of nostalgia and wishful thinking

Top Rate on Regular Income

 

Three meals from barabarism.

I know. The OP was attacked like he was some Hitler loving 88?

Everyone knows the 80's were the peak of American civilization.