I've killed several metric tons of meat with a single shot .22LR.  It's all about the shot placement.  

Largest animal killed was a 350lb hog.
It dropped like a puppet with its strings cut.  

My dad has killed 1000 pound steers with his.  Same result.  

Think how most of us shoot our .22s.  Shotgun shells at 50M are fun targets.  At  25 yds, eyeballs are easy.  If you can do that, you can drop a deer.  Just aim for COM on the brain   Facing shots are best.  Close range is a requirement, but less so than for archery.

I wouldn't choose it for dangerous game, but big isn't a problem.

Rimfire ignition and feeding are way too spotty for a defensive arm.

Not every gun has to be for defense.  Guns are tools.  I would have a hard time chasing a deer down and strangling it to death with my bare hands but shooting one is pretty easy.  Bang!  There's dinner for my family for a while.  Deer can be killed with a .22.  So can cows and hogs.  Grandpa killed his cows and hogs with a little pump .22 that i can hide behind my arm, fits between my shoulder and my wrist.  .22s are useful, ammo is cheap, and you can carry a lot of it on your person.

Agreed, and no one should be without rimfire rifle and pistol. But the OP was talking about defense.

FWIW I think everyone should have a 10/22 with a can and his choice of .22 caliber utility pistol.

Hmm, missed the part about defense.  You are correct sir.

I have the Mafia handbook and it doesn't recommend any certain caliber.

What page did you find that on?

I wouldn't say that about the 10/22. I have plenty of rimfire rifles, but no 10/22. I had one years ago and sold it. I just didn't care for it, and I know I'm not the only one.

This would be my biggest concern with a 22 for self defense.  I have four 22s and may have more before it's all over with, but I am glad I do not have to rely on one for self defense.

As someone else posted, if it were on my terms that's one thing.  But the very nature of self defense means it won't be.

I dunno. .22lr could be a fight stopper in the right platform:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcxeJ0QyWDI

between a stick and a .22 LR I will take the .22

Between any of my centerfire firearms and any of my .22 firearms I will take a centerfire

I personally think .22LR is "overrated" by the general public.  I know several people who are content with a .22 LR for HD saying they think it will be "fine".

They talk about not spending more money, blah blah blah for a HD firearm but yet have 2000$ in home theater stuff and enough accessories hanging off their pick up to buy 5 or 6 decent centerfire handguns

The new Saiga /Izmash Rimfire AKM & AK74-22 will be big sellers .

So 2 of the most common calibers are used the most by criminals?  Cheap and common plus a long production probably has more to do with it than effectiveness. Also the fact that they are so common. Find a body killed by a Krag and lated pull a guy over with a Krag under his seat and the case solves itsel! . Also a .22lr is very quiet. On a noisy street a .22 pressed to soneone's neck would probably be pretty quiet compared to a .44.

this looks like a plan !!! is the canister sold anywhere ?

History channel had something about this one hitman.  They wanted to kill him... he was a big guy.  Put 3 rounds of .22 in his head, he beat the two guys up and drove to the hospital.

i dont see an advantage of 22lr over any other centerfire cartridge for self defense.

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I was having a hard time getting results with Google. That image is water marked by Major Malfunction, though so I'd get in touch with him and if he doesn't have it, he ought to be able to point you the right way. You'll need a 40mm, not 37mm so you'll have to pay the $200 tax stamp if you don't already have one. Looks pretty damn fun, though.

The .22 is a fine killer on critters up to at least 700lbs, assuming nearly perfect placement.  I will no longer chose to use a .22 on a critter over 100 lbs, not because it doesn't work when every thing goes right.  But, because it is insufficient to provide a quick acceptable resolution to the problem when things don't go perfectly.  Also, and this is only my own limited observation, their is a noticeable difference between the .22LR depending on if it is shot out of a pistol or a rifle.

Google "Beehive" or "Hornet's nest"
http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2009/10/13/the-beehive-hornets-nest-40mm-10x-22lr-adapter/

Wouldn't the ATF consider that to be a machine gun? In any event, I don't see much of an advantage of that over a shotgun loaded with buckshot, aside from it probably being able to hold tight patterns for longer distances (assuming each one of the .22 LR barrels in that canister is rifled and well-made in general).  The YouTube video should have shown how it patterned at long range (e.g. 50 yards), rather than nearly point blank range. They should make one in .22 WMR.



I think it was Ross Seyfried that said that .22 WMR rifles are popular with elephant poachers because of their low noise and sufficient power to get the job done. They shoot them at close range in or around the ear.

Last I knew, the .22 WMR was the legal minimum for use on deer here in Maine (but only out of a rifle).

That looks way too fun!

That's what I did. I know they're available. I just don't know which vendors carry them.

If they considered that a machine gun, they'd have to consider shotguns machine guns. The trigger actuates one firing pin, which hits one primer. Only one cartridge is loaded at a time, regardless of how many components or projectiles said cartridge contains. Of course, the BATFE is not known for lucidity and common sense.

I'd sure like to see one in 9mm, though.

22 lr is not a good self-defense round because it does not stop the aggression.
Some of these people die on post-op day 7 or 10.  That is not the point of the exercise, IMHO

I'm going to put my Model 41 in my bank vault. It's too damn dangerous to have it at home, even locked up!

Seriously, I do want to take it to the range with some Dynapoints and HV ammo and try it out at 100 yards.

In David Olofson's trial, the ATF insisted on using the following definition:

“A machine gun is any weapon that shoots more than one shot without manual reloading by a single function of the trigger.”

I believe that shotguns are specifically exempt from the NFA "machine gun" classification. In this case, it is not a shotgun, it is 18 separate chambers and 18 separate barrels all firing 18 separate cartridges with a single pull of the trigger.

 

So if the ATF can call a double barrel shotgun or rifle that fires both barrels at once a machine gun, I have little doubt that they could call this thing a machine gun and get away with it.

On logical merits, it is absurd of course; but then so is NFA '34 in general. Also, the ATF is a rouge agency, so I wouldn't put anything past them.  

.22 rimfire is a last ditch, last choice, my arms hurts too much to pick up a baseball bat self defense round.

I didn't look at the link, but that excerpt is pure gold. Do people actually believe that shit? It's like some dipshit airsoft blogger pulled up a stool at a gun counter, took out his steno pad and just started taking notes on every thing some retard said about .22lr.

Bullets do not "bounce around" inside bodies.

22 of the Apocalypse.

There is a fundamental, utter and sad lack of understanding of the difference between STOP and KILL.



The difference could become devastatingly obvious to you when the bad guy who you've inflicted a mortal wound upon proceeds to kill you with whatever tool he has at hand only to die later. His death will be of little comfort to your family as they burry your ignorant corpse because you didn't take the time to understand the very important difference between STOP and KILL.



I wouldn't WANT to get shot with my kid's Red Rider BB gun. Does that make it a good candidate for self defense? It's the same bullshit logic I hear spouted about .22s, .25s,even .380 acp.



I've said many times: Don't arm yourself thinking of inflicting enough pain on a person to make them quit, or inflicting enough fear in someone to make them quit etc etc. Arm yourself with the tool that you'd choose if you knew a 250 UFC fighter on coke is hell bent on killing you and your family.



Of course, it has to be reasonable to carry because obviously I'd choose a rifle but that's impractical. But it sure as hell wouldn't be a .22 that I'd want to rely on to stop a person intent on killing me.

22lr=BTAPS (better than a pointy stick).

Don't forget there is quite the difference between .22LR in a pistol and in a rifle.

At 0-100 yards it is a 18 inch ice pick.

It can be easy to cruely kill any animal with 22lr.

Do you want to fight with an icepick?

Ask yourself.  If you have any choice other than 22 lr use it.

Headshots are the only shure way to prevent Unethical kills on animals over 15 lbs.

If you love the animal you are putting down, use a 9mm at close range. And wrap them in a towel first. That way they do'nt run. Also so
And you dont miss.

One thing nobody has mentioned directly is deterrent value.  You'd have to be crazy to start trouble with someone toting a rifle with a big babnana clip sticking out the bottom.  Your average person has no idea what caliber it is.  If you lived in an area with a natural disaster or rioting or something, having someone toting one around just adds weight to the argument that your street should be left alone - assuming you also have people toting shotguns, AR's, AK's or whatever.

Everyone should have a 22lr rifle in their safe.  It's too useful, fun and cheap NOT to.  But for self defense - only as a last resort.

You must not have much experience.  

Try .223 loaded with 60 grain VMAX.  It is surprising what happens with a groundhog round when a deer is shot with it in the lungs.

Having been on the receiving end of both I can honestly say the pointy stick is more effective in STOPPING.



The guy with the .22 got his ass handed to him.

The guy with the pointy stick took the fight right out of me.



The .22 stings.

The stick hurts....BAD!



Of course as always your mileage may vary.

This is just my personal experience.





 

+1

If we're talking hunting, a head shot isn't a terribly ethical shot to take. You have much, much less room for error with a head shot than you do a central vitals shot.

Most definitely, mine too. If it homes to needing to hunt l'm not shooting that deer with a .30-30, 5.56, 6.8, or any other and wasting a ton of meat not to mention drawing attention. But that squirrel? Well let's just call him dinner.

A man who shoots deer in the head with a .22 is an entirely different animal than the elmer fudd types that show up at your range on Opening Day to sight in their Weatherby's and Savages.. Anyone wily enough to poach deer with a .22 is almost surely a decent enough shot to make a clean kill, or is smart enough to bait them close enough that it is an easy shot.

http://www.ruger1022.com/docs/israeli_sniper.htm

An interesting read.  " The test showed that the Ruger was more lethal then thought especially in upper body injuries."

Israeli Mossad and Sky marshals used 22 pistols

http://www.tactical-life.com/online/tactical-weapons/israeli-mossad-22-lrs/

An enemy of Israel believes that he has successfully slipped away from the Mossad after his heinous act of terrorism. It’s a beautiful evening and time for a stroll. As the terrorist steps out of his apartment his chest is peppered with a handful of .22 Long Rifle bullets that immediately end his terrorist career. The only thing that the local police find is a dead terrorist and a small pile of .22 LR brass casings sprinkled close to the deceased.

The Beretta Model 70 and the functionally identical Model 71, both in .22 LR, have served with great distinction as the signature terminator pistol of the Mossad, the premiere intelligence agency of the State of Israel. The Beretta 70 was also carried by Israeli Sky Marshals.

The Beretta Model 70 and 71 are compact single-action .22-caliber semi-automatic pistols that accommodate an eight-round magazine, weigh 17 ounces with an unloaded magazine and have a 3.5-inch barrel. The Beretta Model 71 and the 70 are basically identical in every respect except that the Beretta Model 70s come equipped with a low-profile, adjustable rear sight. One feature that appears on both models is either a thumb safety or a cross bolt safety. These pistols also have the magazine release on the left side of the grip, near the bottom of the frame. According to a reliable source in Israel, the .22-caliber Beretta 70 was taken out of service in the mid 1970s and was replaced by a 9mm Beretta.

Small-Bore Efficiency
One of the most famous incidents involving the use of a .22 caliber Beretta 70 “Jaguar” pistol occurred in February of 1969. After the 1968 hijacking of an El Al airliner by Palestinian terrorists, the Israeli government decided to dramatically increase aviation security by placing sky marshals on board. Eventually, the decision was made to place armed veteran Israeli soldiers aboard El Al aircraft. This Israeli sky marshal program was top secret and never publicized.

During the incident that took place in February of 1969, Israeli Sky Marshal Mordechai Rachamim engaged several heavily armed Arab terrorists as they attacked an EL Al airliner on a snow covered runway in Zurich. Despite the odds against him, the young Israeli sky marshal expertly used his issued Beretta Model 70 pistol to kill one of the Palestinian terrorists, moments before the Zurich Police arrived and took the remaining terrorists into custody. The three surviving male Palestinian terrorists received 12-year jail sentences for attacking a commercial airliner with machine guns and explosives that resulted in the killing and wounding of several passengers and crew. Sky Marshal Mordechai Rachamim became an instant hero at home in Israel.

Rachamim told the author that during this engagement at least two of the rounds fired from his Model 70 hit the mark and were responsible for one of the male terrorists being KIA—pretty good shooting, considering that Rachamim single-handedly charged the enemy position while he emptied his .22 caliber pistol at the heavily armed terrorists. Even though Israeli Sky Marshal Rachamim was only armed with a .22, far too much was at stake for him to miss his target. Failure was not on option.

In May of 1972, Rachamim participated in another daring and equally dangerous tactical operation involving aviation security when he and other members of Israel’s elite Sayert Matkal commando unit rescued passengers and crewmembers onboard a hijacked Sabena Airline flight at Lod Airport (now, Ben-Gurion) in Tel Aviv. At the time, this unit was under the command of Ehud Barak, a future Prime Minister of Israel.

Effective, Compact Tools
During this operation, Rachamim and other Israeli commandos assigned to Sayeret Matkal disguised themselves as airline mechanics before storming the hijacked Belgian airliner. As the signal to move was given, Rachamim once again used his issued Model 70 to kill one of the Palestinian terrorists. A second male Palestinian terrorist was also gunned down.

Once again the Israeli sky marshals and Sayert Matkal commandos proved that you do not necessarily need to be heavily armed with sub-machine guns and major-caliber pistols to stop terrorists and criminals. Just like David killed Goliath with a slingshot and a small rock, the Israelis in more modern times used .22s to eliminate a different type of monster from the field of battle.

Ranhamim recently advised Tactical Weapons that during the commando raid on the Sabena Airline jet in 1972, he carried two spare magazines for his issued Beretta. After drawing his pistol and racking the slide, Rachamim recalls charging at one of the male terrorists while he “stabbed” his pistol out in front of him toward his target as he “released rounds.” As he fired his pistol, Rachamim remembered being close enough to see some of his bullets hit the mark. The sight of blood draining from the dead hijacker’s mouth confirmed that the terrorist that he engaged inside the crowded cabin would no longer pose a threat.

Back in the late 1960s and 1970s even the Israelis were still learning how to improve security. Israeli’s selected the Beretta 70/71 because this .22 caliber pistol is a compact, accurate and flawlessly reliable performer that could easily be used to quickly and accurately deliver multiple rounds into vital parts of a human body. The Beretta Model 70/71 in .22 Long Rifle has virtually no recoil and can be easily controlled in rapid fire. There was also little chance that a .22 caliber bullet would cause significant collateral damage inside the crowded cabin of an airliner. No group of armed professionals ever used a .22 caliber pistol as effectively as Israeli Mossad operators and Israeli sky marshals.

Multi-Mission Capable
Although the Beretta 70 & Model 71 are no longer being manufactured, you can still find these outstanding pistols on the used gun market. Like the Beretta family, I share a proud Italian heritage but that doesn’t influence my thoughts on these fine .22 pistols (had I been king, I would have chosen the 9mm SIG 226 or the 9mm SIG 228 over the 9mm Beretta M9 as the standard-issue U.S. military handgun). But for the record, the Beretta Model 70 and 71 are two of the best .22 caliber pistols ever produced.

The .22 caliber Beretta Model 70 & 71 were not designed to serve as a traditional personal defense handgun in a military or police application. However, just like other handguns that have been pressed into government service, the Beretta 70 and 71 proved their effectiveness as an up-close-and-very-personal specialized weapon for certain Israeli government operatives.

After many years firing these pistols, it is easy to see why the Beretta 70 and 71 in .22 LR were identified as a favorite of Israeli Mossad officers and sky marshals of yesteryear. Due to their lightweight design, they are incredibly easy to operate using the Israeli technique of drawing the handgun, then quickly racking the slide to load the weapon, before punching the pistol toward their target and opening fire—a fast way to empty an eight-round magazine of light-recoiling .22 Long Rifle ammunition. To use the Israeli method all you have to do is carry a pistol with a fully loaded magazine and the chamber empty.

I suspect that Israeli Mossad operators and sky marshals liked using the Beretta 70 and 71 because these pistols do not feel like a dainty little handgun that a lady would use to make a mugger take his business elsewhere. When you grip a Beretta 70/71 you feel confident that you are holding a pistol that is capable of winning a gunfight, even though it is chambered in a caliber that is not known for significant stopping power. Israeli operators have proven that, when used properly, a .22 can be very effective in stopping a terrorist or an enemy of the state dead in their tracks.

The Reliability Factor
My pair of Beretta 71s were reliable at all times. In fact, one of my Beretta 71s was flawlessly reliable even though it was fired several times without being cleaned. Both of my Beretta 71s have digested CCI Mini Mags, Remington 40-grain soft leads, Federal 36-grain hollow points and Remington Golden Bullets in 36-grain HP without a problem.
Even though my Beretta 70 does not like CCI Mini Mags, this pistol works flawlessly when used with standard velocity Federal, Remington and Winchester .22 LR ammunition. The Beretta 71 and 70 are designed to be carried with the hammer on safe, fully cocked and ready to fire. All the operator has to do to fire a cocked and locked pistol like a 1911 or a Beretta 71/70 is lower the thumb safety and pull the trigger. This means the Beretta 71 and 70 can be carried cocked and locked with a live round in the chamber just like a 1911. You can also use the Israeli method to load and fire the Beretta 70 & 71.
Over the years the Beretta 70 and 71 have proved to be an excellent platform to train young shooters how to safely operate and use a single-action semi-automatic pistol. Both of my sons trained with a Beretta 71 when they were young: The Beretta 71 and 70 are tremendous confidence builders because they are amazingly accurate, flawlessly reliable and exhibit virtually no recoil. The Beretta 70 and 71 are also excellent pistols for people who suffer from arthritis and find it difficult to operate the slides, or tolerate the recoil of handguns that are chambered in more potent calibers. These pistols are very easy to hold onto, especially during rapid-fire drills. Even with rudimentary fixed sights you will impress yourself with the level of proficiency you can display with a .22 caliber Beretta Model 70 or 71 in a CQB (Close Quarter Battle) drill.

Whether practicing rapid-fire drills at point-blank range, or trying your hand at long-range plinking, the Beretta 70 and 71 are more than capable pistols to train with and use in an emergency. Like other Berettas, the Model 70 and 71 are easy to dissemble and maintain. Anyone who is interested in a reliable and compact .22 LR caliber pistol should try to find a Beretta 70 or 71 on the used gun market. I promise you that you will not regret adding this to your arms chest.