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Quoted: I love my 6.5cm rifles for hunting and I wouldnt feel like I couldn't be competitive at a match with them. If your serious about competition though 6mms are popular for a reason. So no most PRS NRL are not using 6.5. All about that no recoil, spotting impacts life. My shoulder is as fragile as my ego. View Quote So with that reasoning, wouldn't you say 6mm ARC will be popular for competition/target shooters? Almost the performance of the popular 6mm's in an AR15 and less recoil with factory ammo. Seems like a home run to me. If it's popular in the competition/target arena it will eventually bleed over to other disciplines as well as long as the factory ammo is good. |
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Quoted: So with that reasoning, wouldn't you say 6mm ARC will be popular for competition/target shooters? Almost the performance of the popular 6mm's in an AR15 and less recoil with factory ammo. Seems like a home run to me. If it's popular in the competition/target arena it will eventually bleed over to other disciplines as well as long as the factory ammo is good. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I love my 6.5cm rifles for hunting and I wouldnt feel like I couldn't be competitive at a match with them. If your serious about competition though 6mms are popular for a reason. So no most PRS NRL are not using 6.5. All about that no recoil, spotting impacts life. My shoulder is as fragile as my ego. So with that reasoning, wouldn't you say 6mm ARC will be popular for competition/target shooters? Almost the performance of the popular 6mm's in an AR15 and less recoil with factory ammo. Seems like a home run to me. If it's popular in the competition/target arena it will eventually bleed over to other disciplines as well as long as the factory ammo is good. Most of that shooting is not done with AR’s so unless they have divisions for them bolt guns in bigger faster calibers will continue to dominate. |
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Quoted: So with that reasoning, wouldn't you say 6mm ARC will be popular for competition/target shooters? Almost the performance of the popular 6mm's in an AR15 and less recoil with factory ammo. Seems like a home run to me. If it's popular in the competition/target arena it will eventually bleed over to other disciplines as well as long as the factory ammo is good. View Quote kinda but most of the competitors are happy hand loading for one of the 87 wildcats that already exists. Maybe this brass will fireform to some/most of the wildcat chambers??? |
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Anybody know when Proof will start offering their barrels to the public? Looks like they are only supplying manufacturers for factory rifles.
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Quoted: Thought 6mm dasher was ar10 size? Idk I don't keep up with that shit really. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: So what is the pros/cons of the 6mm ARC vs. the 6mm Dasher? Thought 6mm dasher was ar10 size? Idk I don't keep up with that shit really. 6mm Dasher is a 6 BR wildcat with a .473" case head diameter. |
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Quoted: So what is the pros/cons of the 6mm ARC vs. the 6mm Dasher? View Quote Dasher will do well into the mid 2800-2900fps range with the same bullets since it has more case capacity, but it isn't AR15-friendly. Works great in short action bolt guns in PRS, and is very popular in that realm. Any of the Grendel-based 6mm cartridges will be more in the 2750fps range. Most of the loads for Dasher I've seen are using 26-30" barrels though, so they are really close to each other when you compare to same barrel lengths. |
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Quoted: Trademark How do you plan to shoot a 6.5 bullet in a 6mm? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Kind of. Why not call it 6mm Grendel?!?!? That would make it more popular to begin with. Saying "ARC" means shit to anybody. Trademark Quoted: For fuck's sake, you could probably chamber & maybe even safely fire Grendel from this thing . They're identical! You know how GD loves to say shit is an answer to a question no one asked? This is the same answer to a question already answered. How do you plan to shoot a 6.5 bullet in a 6mm? To be fair he said “fire safely”. It very well could once. |
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View Quote So 18" barrel is coming in around 2600 fps Might try one out if criterion releases some barrels 18" nitride |
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Quoted: To be fair he said “fire safely”. It very well could once. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Kind of. Why not call it 6mm Grendel?!?!? That would make it more popular to begin with. Saying "ARC" means shit to anybody. Trademark Quoted: For fuck's sake, you could probably chamber & maybe even safely fire Grendel from this thing . They're identical! You know how GD loves to say shit is an answer to a question no one asked? This is the same answer to a question already answered. How do you plan to shoot a 6.5 bullet in a 6mm? To be fair he said “fire safely”. It very well could once. Of the shoulder was moved back on the ARC the Grendel shouldn’t be able to chamber. 1 2 3 Not it |
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Quoted: 6mm ARs are reasonably popular in HighPower Match Rifle. Includes rapid fire stage and unsupported offhand stage View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Most of that shooting is not done with AR’s so unless they have divisions for them bolt guns in bigger faster calibers will continue to dominate. 6mm ARs are reasonably popular in HighPower Match Rifle. Includes rapid fire stage and unsupported offhand stage That’s a pretty small world but it wouldn’t surprise me to see them slowly switching over. There really is an allure to decent factory brass and ammo. I was mostly talking PRS type stuff which seems to be hot right now. Either way if it works like they say I think it will gain in popularity. |
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Quoted: AMU definitely didn't adopt it. Quite the opposite really. 5th Group had at least one Commander who authorized studies and testing to be done with the proposed cartridge, not much beyond that. JSOC acquired a large sample of 6.8 SPC carbines, ammunition, and magazines and did their own in-house high volume testing without some promoter trying to influence the tests, and wanted nothing to do with it after they were blowing up guns repeatedly. No responsible entity really had control and ownership over 6.8 at the time, so all kinds of deviations from any of the initial 3 chambers, bore specs, and cartridge loadings were happening and colliding with each other. Promoters of the 6.8 had to be escorted off of Bragg at least once by uniformed MPs at the request of units who were tired of being approached without solicitation. There were several of the early 6.8 proponents who then traveled to the UK Ministry of Defense small arms people (without any official business orders or status) and told them, "This is the new 6.8x43 NATO cartridge developed by SOCOM, and that you had better get on board or get left behind." These MoD people, having had a continual relationship with the US for generations prior to this, wondered what was going on because they never had these types of interactions before. If something was actually sanctioned for R&D for NATO testing pre-standardization, they would have been notified through official channels and representatives and asked to participate. They contacted the official DoD reps in the US who said, "What?" It ended up resulting in threats of Courts Martial for anyone who was caught with 6.8 uppers, mags, or even as much as a piece of spent brass downrange. They ticked off a lot of people across services, within multiple elements of SOF, and foreign partners, as well as the FBI ballistics lab. If someone wanted to write a historical account of how not to promote a cartridge, the material available on the 6.8 "proponency" would make you shake your head from page-to-page asking if people could actually be that ridiculous. People were fired over it and PNG'd from multiple locations and agencies within DoD and Federal LE for misconduct, misrepresentation, and attempts at fraud. View Quote Wow, interesting |
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Quoted: Lantac and CMMG both say complete uppers are available. Brownells and OdinWorks should have uppers very soon. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Where can you buy an upper right now? Lantac and CMMG both say complete uppers are available. Brownells and OdinWorks should have uppers very soon. GA Precision and San Tan Tactical too? |
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Quoted: For your stated purposes, 6.5 Grendel is ideal. If you were shooting more target work with a long barrel, and also wanted to do more varmint work in high wind conditions, the 6mm ARC would give you some marginal advantages over 6.5 Grendel. The Grendel will impact steel pretty hard compared to 6mm, but with a higher trajectory and a little more wind drift as penalties. The ARC will make sense for High Power shooters, the new class of AR15 gas gun matches emerging, and varminters. It will also kill medium game like any other small case high velocity centerfire rifle cartridge, but won't bring as much projectile weight and penetration as some of the heavier 6.5mm bullets do. Training a new shooter with either using 100gr class bullets is a wash for recoil. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: No, but people have been wild-catting the Grendel basically since it came out to 6mm for target work. Less drop, more MV, with 107/108gr class 6mm bullets having the same or better BCs compared to 123gr 6.5mm target bullets, with less recoil. With 6.5 Grendel, you normally aren't pushing much past 2650fps with a 123gr hand-loaded from a 24" barrel, while factory ammo is somewhere between 2580-2620fps. With 6mm AR and now 6mm ARC, you can push a 103-108gr bullet at 2750fps from a 24" barrel with factory ammo with a better BC bullet. The gun basically doesn't move when you break the shot, since the projectile weight is so low and chamber pressure isn't that high. Many of us have been advocating for a factory 6mm Grendel for a long time, primarily for target and varmint work. This is basically a Valkyrie killer for those that wanted a smaller bore option than 6.5 Grendel. It's not just another cartridge, but an actual performance advantage that is ideal within the AR15. It is more forgiving of positional free-recoil when shooting a gas gun as well, like .223 Rem or lighter-loaded Grendel is. There is still a wider range of projectile types and weights for 6.5mm looking at 85-160gr, versus 55-115gr in 6mm. I have not yet built a Grendel, is it worth to hold off on that and go for a 6mmARC? This would be for Texas whitetail hunting, some mid-range target shooting and general fun type duties. Grendel has Wolf ammo, so that is a thing for a fun-gun. I'm curious if ARC is going to be $30 per 20 for the foreseeable future. For your stated purposes, 6.5 Grendel is ideal. If you were shooting more target work with a long barrel, and also wanted to do more varmint work in high wind conditions, the 6mm ARC would give you some marginal advantages over 6.5 Grendel. The Grendel will impact steel pretty hard compared to 6mm, but with a higher trajectory and a little more wind drift as penalties. The ARC will make sense for High Power shooters, the new class of AR15 gas gun matches emerging, and varminters. It will also kill medium game like any other small case high velocity centerfire rifle cartridge, but won't bring as much projectile weight and penetration as some of the heavier 6.5mm bullets do. Training a new shooter with either using 100gr class bullets is a wash for recoil. |
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This 6mm ARC hitting the streets is pretty cool. Stands a much better chance of filling the niche of an AR-friendly, low-recoil, technically capable medium-range cartridge.
This design stands a lot better chance of adoption than, for example, the .224V, which was a technical mess in execution. Of course, three years ago, the gun rag crowd was certain that the .224V was it. Pretty funny then, and now. Here's what I wrote on the the future of the "everyman's" practical precision AR chambering: https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/-224V-begs-the-Q-what-will-the-industry-short-6mm-be-and-how-soon-will-they-roll-it-out-/121-722115/ |
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Quoted: This 6mm ARC hitting the streets is pretty cool. Stands a much better chance of filling the niche of an AR-friendly, low-recoil, technically capable medium-range cartridge. This design stands a lot better chance of adoption than, for example, the .224V, which was a technical mess in execution. Of course, three years ago, the gun rag crowd was certain that the .224V was it. Pretty funny then, and now. Here's what I wrote on the the future of the "everyman's" practical precision AR chambering: https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/-224V-begs-the-Q-what-will-the-industry-short-6mm-be-and-how-soon-will-they-roll-it-out-/121-722115/ View Quote Have you listened to Lowlight on the Valkyrie? I know that's your world(rifle stuff) He really makes it sound like the initial problems are gone. |
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View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: The point is, let's see which 6mm ends up going mainstream (because one certainly will, unless the industry sees a BATFE setback), and how long the .224V lasts against that. I'm predicting that industry is dragging things out so that this year you buy a .224V and in 2020 you buy a 6mmSomething. Are you a wizard? |
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Quoted: What was the problem with it? Dont hear much about it anymore. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Have you listened to Lowlight on the Valkyrie? I know that's your world(rifle stuff) He really makes it sound like the initial problems are gone. What was the problem with it? Dont hear much about it anymore. One of the big ones was a bullet/twist mismatch. I think it was one of the early federal loads but the podcast I listened to was a while back. He's casually mentioned it several times in more recent talks and seems to like it but it was only a side conversation. Seems like it would be a decent long range AR round but that's obviously a pretty niche little category. |
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Quoted: No, but people have been wild-catting the Grendel basically since it came out to 6mm for target work. Less drop, more MV, with 107/108gr class 6mm bullets having the same or better BCs compared to 123gr 6.5mm target bullets, with less recoil. With 6.5 Grendel, you normally aren't pushing much past 2650fps with a 123gr hand-loaded from a 24" barrel, while factory ammo is somewhere between 2580-2620fps. With 6mm AR and now 6mm ARC, you can push a 103-108gr bullet at 2750fps from a 24" barrel with factory ammo with a better BC bullet. The gun basically doesn't move when you break the shot, since the projectile weight is so low and chamber pressure isn't that high. Many of us have been advocating for a factory 6mm Grendel for a long time, primarily for target and varmint work. This is basically a Valkyrie killer for those that wanted a smaller bore option than 6.5 Grendel. It's not just another cartridge, but an actual performance advantage that is ideal within the AR15. It is more forgiving of positional free-recoil when shooting a gas gun as well, like .223 Rem or lighter-loaded Grendel is. There is still a wider range of projectile types and weights for 6.5mm looking at 85-160gr, versus 55-115gr in 6mm. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Was there a shortage of 6.5 pill offerings in Grendel that I was not aware of? No, but people have been wild-catting the Grendel basically since it came out to 6mm for target work. Less drop, more MV, with 107/108gr class 6mm bullets having the same or better BCs compared to 123gr 6.5mm target bullets, with less recoil. With 6.5 Grendel, you normally aren't pushing much past 2650fps with a 123gr hand-loaded from a 24" barrel, while factory ammo is somewhere between 2580-2620fps. With 6mm AR and now 6mm ARC, you can push a 103-108gr bullet at 2750fps from a 24" barrel with factory ammo with a better BC bullet. The gun basically doesn't move when you break the shot, since the projectile weight is so low and chamber pressure isn't that high. Many of us have been advocating for a factory 6mm Grendel for a long time, primarily for target and varmint work. This is basically a Valkyrie killer for those that wanted a smaller bore option than 6.5 Grendel. It's not just another cartridge, but an actual performance advantage that is ideal within the AR15. It is more forgiving of positional free-recoil when shooting a gas gun as well, like .223 Rem or lighter-loaded Grendel is. There is still a wider range of projectile types and weights for 6.5mm looking at 85-160gr, versus 55-115gr in 6mm. I agree 100% I think its going to be a game changer for night time coyote hunting. |
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Quoted: Have you listened to Lowlight on the Valkyrie? I know that's your world(rifle stuff) He really makes it sound like the initial problems are gone. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Have you listened to Lowlight on the Valkyrie? I know that's your world(rifle stuff) He really makes it sound like the initial problems are gone. Maybe. The biggest issue with the Valkyrie concept is (even if they hadn't screwed up the engineering on release) it's not nearly as optimal in a short (10"-18") barrel as a 6mm will be. Quoted: Are you a wizard? That was a pretty nice prediction, no? ;-) |
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so, at 1000 yards, will it have enough velocity/energy to kill or seriously wound a human?
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Quoted: Maybe. The biggest issue with the Valkyrie concept is (even if they hadn't screwed up the engineering on release) it's not nearly as optimal in a short (10"-18") barrel as a 6mm will be. View Quote Can you put that in some real numbers for me and maybe explain why that is so? I think the case capacity is really close so I assumed they would be pretty close. Once it gets in to the really technical stuff I am definitely behind the curve. I've seen similar comparisons between other rounds (308 vs 358 win) talking about the bigger bore operating at less pressure but never anything in depth. Quoted: so, at 1000 yards, will it have enough velocity/energy to kill or seriously would a human? View Quote What's your threshold? It's under 1400 fps so it's not screaming but I imagine it would still be gnarly. Looking at the hornady chart 223 is at the same speed around 700 yards with 35 grains less bullet |
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Quoted: 6mm ARC Just Released by Hornady Hornady 6mm ARC Info Page COMPARISONWHAT MAKES THE 6MM ARC BETTER? .308 Win The 6mm ARC delivers substantially less recoil allowing shooters to spot their own shots. The AR-15 platform features a higher magazine capacity. The 6mm ARC offers a 30 to 35% lighter-weight package (gun and ammo). .223/5.56 The 6mm ARC achieves substantially better ballistics than the .223/5.56. It delivers less drop, less wind deflection and the ability to shoot accurate groups at much greater distance (1000+ yds). .224 Valkyrie The 6mm ARC gives hunters the ability to successfully hunt varmints and deer. The 6mm ARC produces a larger splash signature that allows shooters to self-spot impacts and make rapid adjustments. 6.5 Grendel The 6mm ARC delivers comparable performance from a wider assortment of bullets, making it a more versatile choice. 6.8 SPC The 6mm ARC is a better long-range performer. Rifle Components Now Available View Quote |
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Quoted: 55's going even in the upper 3k velocity range in the weight of an ar 15 platform. Essentially have a 22-250 or 243 in a more compact lighter semi auto rifle. View Quote I can only speak from my experience shooting coyotes and such at night under nods is why I asked. I think most I've killed are at bayonet range or under 400 yards. Just took for granted that 223 was plenty for those distances. |
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Read the reviews, no reliable magazines.
Same song second verse ?? |
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Quoted: Read the reviews, no reliable magazines. Same song second verse ?? View Quote For as long as the Grendel has been out I have a hard time believing there isn't a solid choice. |
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Was hoping for something like this based on the spc case. I have tons of mags and bolts and brass.
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