|
Quoted: Yeah, the Sig price tag is no joke. What about a BRN-180 with low pro side folder brace/stock on a regular lower? I'm sure someone has done the measurement comparison game with something like that, no? Shortest barrel length they have is 10" it looks like? Have a 8.3" 300 blk. But wanting a 8" or less folding piston gun. I'd have bought the Rattler LT at $2k'ish. Still might.. but curious if anything gets announced at SHOT. |
|
Quoted: Two cops lit up a bad guy with .300 BLK subs and bad guy's body armor stopped multiple rounds. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 7.5” 300blk with an ARIC and LAW folder. Would like a new SIG MCX, but that Arizona shoot out is pushing me away. Que? Two cops lit up a bad guy with .300 BLK subs and bad guy's body armor stopped multiple rounds. The answer is "stop using 300 BLK subs", not "stop using MCXes". |
|
Quoted: Essentially, the PDW concept, able to be moved through non-SHTF civil society in more unsettled times when engagement with the world-jobs, school, shopping, going to church-are still going to have to be done. Yep. We’ve been calling it “medium spicy” in this thread.  I completely get the “its either the edc pistol or an actual rifle” argument from some folks, especially if you train seriously with your pistol. A big advantage I havent seen mentioned a lot here yet is that if I had my wife a pdw, she goes from “not very useful with a gun” to “might actually stop a threat”. Same with a lot of my non gun friends. They suck ass with a pistol but can actually make hits with a mp5k or other pdws. |
|
I just got one. Havent shot it yet so no thoughts to share just yet but…yeah. Just farting around with it i like it a lot. |
|
Quoted: Yep. We’ve been calling it “medium spicy” in this thread. I completely get the “its either the edc pistol or an actual rifle” argument from some folks, especially if you train seriously with your pistol. A big advantage I havent seen mentioned a lot here yet is that if I had my wife a pdw, she goes from “not very useful with a gun” to “might actually stop a threat”. Same with a lot of my non gun friends. They suck ass with a pistol but can actually make hits with a mp5k or other pdws. I was doing some training at Tac-Pro Shooting Center with Bill Davison and he was running us through some scenarios based on roadblock type situations he'd actually encountered while working. And you'd start with your pistol on the near threats and then retrieve your rifle and work the far threats. And that's when I started thinking "but I want a rifle NOW!" So, my whole use case is built around vehicles and roadblocks. And the roadblock thing, while still soft power (or semi-soft at least) is definitely ramping up here in the U.S. |
|
Quoted: The answer is "stop using 300 BLK subs", not "stop using MCXes". Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 7.5” 300blk with an ARIC and LAW folder. Would like a new SIG MCX, but that Arizona shoot out is pushing me away. Que? Two cops lit up a bad guy with .300 BLK subs and bad guy's body armor stopped multiple rounds. The answer is "stop using 300 BLK subs", not "stop using MCXes". This. I carry 110gr Hornady TAP. |
|
Quoted: The answer is "stop using 300 BLK subs", not "stop using MCXes". Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 7.5” 300blk with an ARIC and LAW folder. Would like a new SIG MCX, but that Arizona shoot out is pushing me away. Que? Two cops lit up a bad guy with .300 BLK subs and bad guy's body armor stopped multiple rounds. The answer is "stop using 300 BLK subs", not "stop using MCXes". Multiple officers armed with the MCX also had malfunctions during the incident. |
|
if palmetto state armory starts making their 9mm ar15, that uses smg mags, id be 100% interested in some pistol versions with braces and 8-10" barrels or so. https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/PSA-dropping-new-item-soon/5-2683788/ https://palmettostatearmory.com/harrington-richardson-635-9mm-complete-lower-black.html?avad=234121_c3670f0b1&utm_source=Avantlink&utm_medium=Referral&utm_campaign=cl Attached File Attached File |
|
Quoted: if palmetto state armory starts making their 9mm ar15, that uses smg mags, id be 100% interested in some pistol versions with braces and 8-10" barrels or so. https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/PSA-dropping-new-item-soon/5-2683788/ https://palmettostatearmory.com/harrington-richardson-635-9mm-complete-lower-black.html?avad=234121_c3670f0b1&utm_source=Avantlink&utm_medium=Referral&utm_campaign=cl https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/92687/pal_jpg-3088253.JPG I have wanted a DOE 9mm since I was 8 and got my hands on a toy version... |
|
Quoted: Two cops lit up a bad guy with .300 BLK subs and bad guy's body armor stopped multiple rounds. I haven't seen actual confirmation of either of those claims. Just guys making guesses based on the video. I've also seen (on this board) of a poster claiming personal knowledge that they were shooting supersonic rounds. And the supposition that the marks on the vest could be the inner material from the vest, and not necessarily comically halted rounds that are all still somehow in place. Two of the MCX did seem to malfunction for some reason in that incident, though. If you have more information, I'd like to hear it. |
|
Quoted: I haven't seen actual confirmation of either of those claims. Just guys making guesses based on the video. I've also seen (on this board) of a poster claiming personal knowledge that they were shooting supersonic rounds. And the supposition that the marks on the vest could be the inner material from the vest, and not necessarily comically halted rounds that are all still somehow in place. Two of the MCX did seem to malfunction for some reason in that incident, though. If you have more information, I'd like to hear it. Quoted: Quoted: Two cops lit up a bad guy with .300 BLK subs and bad guy's body armor stopped multiple rounds. I haven't seen actual confirmation of either of those claims. Just guys making guesses based on the video. I've also seen (on this board) of a poster claiming personal knowledge that they were shooting supersonic rounds. And the supposition that the marks on the vest could be the inner material from the vest, and not necessarily comically halted rounds that are all still somehow in place. Two of the MCX did seem to malfunction for some reason in that incident, though. If you have more information, I'd like to hear it. That's both interesting and concerning. I wonder what setups and gas settings they were running. I know I can easily make my Rattler choke if I have it on "-" with no can and running subs but that's about the only time. |
|
Quoted: I haven't seen actual confirmation of either of those claims. Just guys making guesses based on the video. I've also seen (on this board) of a poster claiming personal knowledge that they were shooting supersonic rounds. And the supposition that the marks on the vest could be the inner material from the vest, and not necessarily comically halted rounds that are all still somehow in place. Two of the MCX did seem to malfunction for some reason in that incident, though. If you have more information, I'd like to hear it. Let's not sidetrack this thread. If anybody has a link, there is some good Arfcom level autistic analysis in the original thread. I haven't seen anything besides that. |
|
Quoted: https://i.imgur.com/8nmArbi.jpeg This is in full power .308. It would easily fit in a backpack and for sure would end most problems it would be called on to solve. Attached File Attached File Attached File |
|
Quoted: Gremlin thread! M193 EHRRTHING https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/138374/20201218_150051-1737094.jpg Gremlin? |
|
I figure 8 mags and suppressor, along with the Vector. It all fits in the case. I have other bags and back packs. The KSG fits nice ass well. Attached File |
|
Quoted: I figure 8 mags and suppressor, along with the Vector. It all fits in the case. I have other bags and back packs. The KSG fits nice ass well. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/349755/20160930_203928_zpstdrctwsc_jpg-3088347.JPG Also interesting this one hasnt popped up much |
|
Quoted: Let's not sidetrack this thread. If anybody has a link, there is some good Arfcom level autistic analysis in the original thread. I haven't seen anything besides that. I don't have a link to the original any more (which is too bad, as I just saw it recently). But I started one in the SIG section. Video is there as well. https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Shoot-out-in-AZ-SIG-malfunctions-/45-548849/ My SHTF rounds are 110gr Tac-TX. My HD rounds are 110gr V-max. Most 300blk supers go through level IIIa body armor. Non expanding 300blk subs will go level II body armor....but I can't see the police using non-expanding subs. Not sure if they were using subs or not, or if they had bad mags, or the wrong gas settings. Didn't want to sidetrack the thread, I was just highly disappointed in what happened. I was thinking that 6.75" SIG could be the perfect PDW/mini rifle (pistol) with a folding brace. |
|
Quoted: This thread needs more Flux Raider Yes it does Attached File Attached File |
|
Quoted: I figure 8 mags and suppressor, along with the Vector. It all fits in the case. I have other bags and back packs. The KSG fits nice ass well. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/349755/20160930_203928_zpstdrctwsc_jpg-3088347.JPG Maybe it’s just Call of Duty, but I’ve always thought the Vector was super cool. Any issues with yours? |
|
Quoted: Is that an aftermarket front grip? Haven't seen that before. Quoted: Quoted: Ruger LC Charger 5.7 https://img1.wsimg.com/isteam/ip/3c6dd194-4fb5-4614-9321-43937359f5ae/ols/IMG_2075.jpg/:/rs=w:1200,h:1200 https://img1.wsimg.com/isteam/ip/3c6dd194-4fb5-4614-9321-43937359f5ae/ols/IMG_2079.jpg/:/rs=w:1200,h:1200 https://img1.wsimg.com/isteam/ip/3c6dd194-4fb5-4614-9321-43937359f5ae/ols/IMG_2076.jpg/:/rs=w:1200,h:1200 + 30rd mags https://f5mfg.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/RUGER-57-PLUS-10-PACKAGE-01-1.jpg Is that an aftermarket front grip? Haven't seen that before. @jeeperscreepers Yeah, tell us everything |
|
Quoted: The answer is "stop using 300 BLK subs", not "stop using MCXes". Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 7.5” 300blk with an ARIC and LAW folder. Would like a new SIG MCX, but that Arizona shoot out is pushing me away. Que? Two cops lit up a bad guy with .300 BLK subs and bad guy's body armor stopped multiple rounds. The answer is "stop using 300 BLK subs", not "stop using MCXes". Isn’t FED LE doctrine to go center mass and if no effect, put rounds into the pelvis? |
|
Quoted: And just to get the thread started off on the proper serious note. https://i.imgur.com/3UQEwbt.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/0ki0QBJ.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/aeD6tma.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/6YDyMGz.jpeg And this is exactly why I come to this forum 
|
|
Quoted: Is that an aftermarket front grip? Haven't seen that before. Quoted: Quoted: Ruger LC Charger 5.7 https://img1.wsimg.com/isteam/ip/3c6dd194-4fb5-4614-9321-43937359f5ae/ols/IMG_2075.jpg/:/rs=w:1200,h:1200 https://img1.wsimg.com/isteam/ip/3c6dd194-4fb5-4614-9321-43937359f5ae/ols/IMG_2079.jpg/:/rs=w:1200,h:1200 https://img1.wsimg.com/isteam/ip/3c6dd194-4fb5-4614-9321-43937359f5ae/ols/IMG_2076.jpg/:/rs=w:1200,h:1200 + 30rd mags https://f5mfg.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/RUGER-57-PLUS-10-PACKAGE-01-1.jpg Is that an aftermarket front grip? Haven't seen that before. https://customsmithmfg.com/shop/ols/products/csm-short-hand-guard-for-ruger-lc-57/v/CSM-SHR-HND-GRD-VFG |
|
Quoted: Gremlin thread! M193 EHRRTHING https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/138374/20201218_150051-1737094.jpg @beitodesstrafe Grover You still have him 
|
|
Quoted: Quoted: https://i.imgur.com/8nmArbi.jpeg This is in full power .308. It would easily fit in a backpack and for sure would end most problems it would be called on to solve. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/372855/IMG_20210930_214339328_HDR_jpg-3088316.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/372855/IMG_20211212_104213194_HDR_compress50_jp-3088322.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/372855/IMG_20211212_104234335_HDR_compress75_jp-3088324.JPG Fuck your cover, fuck your concealment, and fuck all of our ears!
|
|
Quoted: I was doing some training at Tac-Pro Shooting Center with Bill Davison and he was running us through some scenarios based on roadblock type situations he'd actually encountered while working. And you'd start with your pistol on the near threats and then retrieve your rifle and work the far threats. And that's when I started thinking "but I want a rifle NOW!" So, my whole use case is built around vehicles and roadblocks. And the roadblock thing, while still soft power (or semi-soft at least) is definitely ramping up here in the U.S. Very much this. My agency covers six counties including Dallas. I frequently have to go up into Collin County and down to Austin for training or state stuff. During the BLM/summer of mostly peaceful I was still having to move around a lot and I didn't want to just have a pistol as my only option. Dipshit in Austin with his AK cemented that. I wanted something that I could have that was concealable, able to be gotten to while still in the vehicle, mag changes wouldn't be problematic (see Chen's vids on PDWs and the Kriss), getting in and out of the vehicle wouldn't be problematic or at least be less of an issue, had a decent round and capacity, and some ability to work close in and out to some kind of standoff. |
|
My dude! If I had to have a truck gun heavy carbine, it would be one of these. Probably going to put an SRO on it.  Usually have the clubfoot on it though. |
|
Quoted: My dude! If I had to have a truck gun heavy carbine, it would be one of these. Probably going to put an SRO on it. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/18486/IMG_5600_JPG-1459248.jpg Usually have the clubfoot on it though. Love me some G3K. Supposedly the Brits liked them in Northern Ireland because of their ability to punch through cars and still be small enough to keep covert. Hows yours run suppressed? Figuring out what locking piece to use on mine suppressed is down there somewhere on my long list of gun projects… 
|
|
Quoted: @beitodesstrafe Grover You still have him Quoted: Quoted: Gremlin thread! M193 EHRRTHING https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/138374/20201218_150051-1737094.jpg @beitodesstrafe Grover You still have him Of course! It's one of my favorite guns. ?? 
|
I guess you can say I'm going old school if I need a PDW, I'll use this Fulton Armory M1 Carbine in a MP40 style folding stock. It's lighter than my SHTF AR-15, fits in a gym bag I have that doesn't scream "gun case". I have two 30 round USGI loaded with these. https://www.aimsurplus.com/products/prvi-partizan-ppu-30cal-carbine-110grn-sp-ammunition-50rd-box Plus 6 15 round mags loaded the same in one of these carry rigs https://olongapooutfitters.com/equipment-and-gear/m1-carbine-grab-and-go/ I figure that's 210 rounds of nasty if needed. I need more than that it's time to get out of Dodge. |
|
Quoted: Fuck your cover, fuck your concealment, and fuck all of our ears! Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: https://i.imgur.com/8nmArbi.jpeg This is in full power .308. It would easily fit in a backpack and for sure would end most problems it would be called on to solve. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/372855/IMG_20210930_214339328_HDR_jpg-3088316.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/372855/IMG_20211212_104213194_HDR_compress50_jp-3088322.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/372855/IMG_20211212_104234335_HDR_compress75_jp-3088324.JPG Fuck your cover, fuck your concealment, and fuck all of our ears! I only shoot it suppressed for obvious reasons. In Michigan, you can't transport a loaded rifle while a handgun is ok if you have a CPL. So a pistol makes sense here. I use the "RCM HK21E G41 LOCKING PIECE #17, 36 degree" locking piece and it runs good (again, only shooting suppressed). I have a G3K set up the same and haven't shot it yet . I like the 8" barrel handling, but the 12 and 16" barrels have better ballistics. That doesn't matter for for 0-300 yards.
|
|
Quoted: Love me some G3K. Supposedly the Brits liked them in Northern Ireland because of their ability to punch through cars and still be small enough to keep covert. Hows yours run suppressed? Figuring out what locking piece to use on mine suppressed is down there somewhere on my long list of gun projects… https://i.imgur.com/vBEinwA.jpeg I don’t currently have a can rated for a 12” 7.62, mine are only rated down to 16” on that round. Like you, that is on my long list of projects to eventually pick up. I’ve heard that it can be done with one of the HK locking pieces though. I can’t remember offhand which one it was, I want to say #17. ETA confirmed above as #17. And while I am able to run my full size 91s suppressed or unsuppressed with the same LP, I don’t think the K guns will let you do that but I’m not sure. |
|
Quoted: I only shoot it suppressed for obvious reasons. In Michigan, you can't transport a loaded rifle while a handgun is ok if you have a CPL. So a pistol makes sense here. I use the "RCM HK21E G41 LOCKING PIECE #17, 36 degree" locking piece and it runs good (again, only shooting suppressed). I have a G3K set up the same and haven't shot it yet . I like the 8" barrel handling, but the 12 and 16" barrels have better ballistics. That doesn't matter for for 0-300 yards.Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: https://i.imgur.com/8nmArbi.jpeg This is in full power .308. It would easily fit in a backpack and for sure would end most problems it would be called on to solve. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/372855/IMG_20210930_214339328_HDR_jpg-3088316.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/372855/IMG_20211212_104213194_HDR_compress50_jp-3088322.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/372855/IMG_20211212_104234335_HDR_compress75_jp-3088324.JPG Fuck your cover, fuck your concealment, and fuck all of our ears! I only shoot it suppressed for obvious reasons. In Michigan, you can't transport a loaded rifle while a handgun is ok if you have a CPL. So a pistol makes sense here. I use the "RCM HK21E G41 LOCKING PIECE #17, 36 degree" locking piece and it runs good (again, only shooting suppressed). I have a G3K set up the same and haven't shot it yet . I like the 8" barrel handling, but the 12 and 16" barrels have better ballistics. That doesn't matter for for 0-300 yards.Same for my .308 12.5" AR10. Fired a couple rounds to ensure the bullets were stable when I first built the upper and then slapped on a suppressor for everything after that. |
|
Thinking about doing some comparisons with what I own to add to the thread. Some size/weight #s and comparison pictures might be helpful for people trying to decide on pdw. Since a common theme for detractors seems to be “theres no place for it, I just want a pistol or rifle”, might be worth running some drills with all of the options and seeing if there is a difference in speed/accuracy too. Thoughts? |
|
Quoted: Thinking about doing some comparisons with what I own to add to the thread. Some size/weight #s and comparison pictures might be helpful for people trying to decide on pdw. Since a common theme for detractors seems to be “theres no place for it, I just want a pistol or rifle”, might be worth running some drills with all of the options and seeing if there is a difference in speed/accuracy too. Thoughts? I like it. Even just LxWxH and weight numbers/pics would be value added when you're thinking you're "just gonna put a gun in a bag" and carry it everywhere. Ease of getting it out and "able to fire" and/or "in operational configuration" could also be useful. IE: unfolded, can on, mag in, rack action, etc. Some of the pics in here have had stocks folded and suppressors removed. Others have no mag in or a small one inserted, presumably on an empty chamber. For my case, my SBR'd PS90 is stupid short and adding the mag while keeping the chamber empty would add nothing to external dims and give me no qualms about carrying it safely. Adding even a K can would require it to be put in a much larger/bulkier bag though. |
|
I carry this one daily but its wearing a dedicated YHM R9 now with a longer handguard. Attached File I have this but it lives in the safe. Attached File |
|
Quoted: I like it. Even just LxWxH and weight numbers/pics would be value added when you're thinking you're "just gonna put a gun in a bag" and carry it everywhere. Ease of getting it out and "able to fire" and/or "in operational configuration" could also be useful. IE: unfolded, can on, mag in, rack action, etc. Some of the pics in here have had stocks folded and suppressors removed. Others have no mag in or a small one inserted, presumably on an empty chamber. Still deciding what drills to shoot, and ill get actual measurement and loaded weights later but I think I’ll focus on these three, and maybe shoot a small carry pistol as well for another data point. Will do weights and drills with/without suppressors too. MCX Virtus lower with Rattler upper AP5-P Flux Raider X    |