|
Quoted: Love mine. Light, handy, wouldnt raise as many eyebrows in loony ass clown world areas but still a very capable rifle. I need to get a threaded one. Cant bring myself to mess with my JM stamped Marlin, and I'm usually not sentimental at all about messing with guns. Quoted: Quoted: Or a .357 mag lever gun  Love mine. Light, handy, wouldnt raise as many eyebrows in loony ass clown world areas but still a very capable rifle. I need to get a threaded one. Cant bring myself to mess with my JM stamped Marlin, and I'm usually not sentimental at all about messing with guns. |
|
Quoted: True enough. The most common USPSA PCC is essentially a full sized AR15 carbine. FWIW it is scored "Minor" which either requires more accuracy in order to overcome the "Major" point value while maintaining the same speed, or greatly increased speed at the same accuracy, so the delta is even more demonstrative. Thinking out loud... I suppose the data would illustrate a continuum with iron sighted Service pistols on the left and lightweight, tuned, optically sighted 16 " carbines on the right. Accuracy, power(rifle cartridge wounding) and speed(the old DVC) would all go left to right. A Roland Special would be to the right of the iron sighted Service pistol and an Open pistol somewhat to the right of that...and the carbine quite a long way past that. Where does the Chassis style PCC fall on that continuum? How big is the trade-off in DVC for covert capability? For home defense or offensive use(military, LE pursuit/arrest, SHTF open rifle carry) I don't think it is worth it. For the Medium Spicy environment where there is a premium on discretion while still engaging with society it becomes more compelling. To what extent, I can't say. I've never fired one and no one that I've seen or read has provided more than general impressions about shooting them. It would be valuable to have skilled shooters comparing performance on known drills with metrics. Even the linked Brass Facts video doesn't say much at all about measured performance even though he argues the use case for them well enough. people that shoot often and train can shoot a rifle faster and more accurately than a pistol. People that Can't shoot can shoot a rifle significantly faster/more accurately than a pistol. A pistol is hard to shoot. I can absolutely hit man sized targets at 100 yards but it takes me a few seconds to line it up, hold super steady, etc. My wife (who shoots like every 5 years) can grab her lever gun and hit a man sized target first time every time. Add a dot or a scope? even faster. anyone that would like to see it can come to a range here near ATL. We can shoot my glock 17 with a dot. Then add the brace and flashmag to the same gun. You will shoot it better/faster with the additional support, everyone that's tried it has been the same. Quoted: Or a .357 mag lever gun got my wife one for this reason, really hits like a rifle with that barrel length and the same manual of arms as a red ryder  she doesn't really care to shoot often or train, but handing her the lever gun as back up to our active shooter/double homicide in the yard last year it was nice to have the back up. I had it loaded and the instructions were "like the red ryder, will be much louder".... Quoted: I need a bingo patch PathOps. I have the whole family. They got sued like crazy and it's hard to find them outside ebay anymore |
|
Quoted: got my wife one for this reason, really hits like a rifle with that barrel length and the same manual of arms as a red ryder she doesn't really care to shoot often or train, but handing her the lever gun as back up to our active shooter/double homicide in the yard last year it was nice to have the back up. I had it loaded and the instructions were "like the red ryder, will be much louder".... This is a huge niche for stuff like the flux raider or any pdw that takes compatible mags to your edc, I think. My wife is similar. She can shoot, knows how to safely operate a gun. But it isnt fun for her, its not a hobby and she isnt a gun autist like we are. My Marlin 1894c is also her favorite gun. But its absolutely a use case for the flux, because thats something she can shoot thats easy to pack. |
|
Quoted: But it isnt fun for her, its not a hobby and she isnt a gun autist like we are. Gun autist, gun nerd, same thing. https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2GL18QgpxF/ |
|
Saw that floating around and laughed hard. At myself.
|
|
Quoted: Quoted: But it isnt fun for her, its not a hobby and she isnt a gun autist like we are. Gun autist, gun nerd, same thing. https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2GL18QgpxF/ |
|
Oh, I almost forgot the FM15 I converted to a 9.5” 300blk. Also have a 9.5” 5.56 barrel I can install if things go sideways for too long. Attached File |
|
Quoted: Oh, I almost forgot the FM15 I converted to a 9.5” 300blk. Also have a 9.5” 5.56 barrel I can install if things go sideways for too long. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/66797/IMG_1583_jpeg-3099096.JPG @Thor How do you like the FM15? Just drops on to a regular lower? How easy is the barrel swap? |
|
The M11/9 with Lage Max11SK would work in that role. Attached File |
|
@towerofpower94 It’s been treating me well. Original was the 11.25 with and adjustable gas block. Very soft shooter. Original FM15s run a near pencil barrel profile with a .625 gas block journal. The barrel nut also has a small ID and cannot pass over the shoulder on most .750 gas block journals, and it’s too small to work with the profile at the barrel extension. Definitely not a drop in. I used a 300blk Faxon Gunner 10.5 chopped to 9.5. For the 5.56 I used a Griffin HEDP 9.5. On both a I had to turn the gas block shoulder down to .780 and reprofile the flare at the receiver end. I bubba’d the hell out of this. I tapped a long dowel into the barrel, chucked the dowel in a drill, and spun the barrel against my bench grinder until I got the fitment I needed. Now the near 300blk FM15 Uppers use a .750 gas block, and it’s likely they are more chunky at the back end given the larger chambering. I haven’t gotten one in my hands yet to take apart, but I suspect they will be much easier to swap barrels on. As for why I chose 9.5”, it was where I could do a clean chop on the handguard and have minimal gap with the supressor. Attached File |
|
I think this is relevant. Might be enough to convince me to get a 5.7. Attached File |
|
Quoted: The M11/9 with Lage Max11SK would work in that role. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/33069/20230601_222018_jpg-3099397.JPG That’ll do. |
|
Quoted: I think this is relevant. Might be enough to convince me to get a 5.7. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/66797/IMG_1597_jpeg-3099559.JPG I havent been impressed with any of the Strike stuff I’ve handled. |
|
This approach looks interesting. The Ruger Charger in 5.7 fired as a "Cheek Pistol", i.e. no stock or brace. Sidesteps ATF fuckery for interstate travel and moots the brace issue altogether. https://www.handgunsmag.com/editorial/ruger-lc-charger-5-7x28-cheek-pistol/482612 Three points of contact(five with elbows against chest), a very compressed position in close quarters( in a car or doorway), you can move in a ready gun position with the pistol depressed only enough to drop the optic below line of sight and get off a near instantaneous aimed shot by simply raising the gun a couple of inches. I've read several accounts by people who have tried the concept with different guns and the consensus is that it's faster and far more accurate than a pistol, and about as fast and accurate as a stocked weapon at least within a hundred yards. Some have taken it much further. If you're left eye dominant there would have to be some sort of shell deflector arranged.  |
|
Quoted: @towerofpower94 It’s been treating me well. Original was the 11.25 with and adjustable gas block. Very soft shooter. Original FM15s run a near pencil barrel profile with a .625 gas block journal. The barrel nut also has a small ID and cannot pass over the shoulder on most .750 gas block journals, and it’s too small to work with the profile at the barrel extension. Definitely not a drop in. I used a 300blk Faxon Gunner 10.5 chopped to 9.5. For the 5.56 I used a Griffin HEDP 9.5. On both a I had to turn the gas block shoulder down to .780 and reprofile the flare at the receiver end. I bubba’d the hell out of this. I tapped a long dowel into the barrel, chucked the dowel in a drill, and spun the barrel against my bench grinder until I got the fitment I needed. Now the near 300blk FM15 Uppers use a .750 gas block, and it’s likely they are more chunky at the back end given the larger chambering. I haven’t gotten one in my hands yet to take apart, but I suspect they will be much easier to swap barrels on. As for why I chose 9.5”, it was where I could do a clean chop on the handguard and have minimal gap with the supressor. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/66797/IMG_1595_jpeg-3099539.JPG Thanks. Def more than I’d want to undertake at the moment to get a short (<9”) 300BO upper on a traditional AR lower with pic rail adapted back end and minimalist folding stock. ETA: can the FM15 be used on any ol’ AR lower? I was interested in the JAKL until learning you had to put some specific parts on the rear of the lower that wouldn’t allow a traditional AR .22lr upper to be swapped on. |
|
Quoted: I havent been impressed with any of the Strike stuff I’ve handled. I’ve owned enough strike stuff to disagree, but yet I’ve also owned enough strike stuff to not strongly disagree, lol. Along with the dumb stuff, they make, They do some good things but they sometimes make it too adaptable if that makes any sense. Their slides with multiple optics options are one of them. It leaves a gap and doesn’t fully support all optics The dual swinging stock is another. It’s rock solid, but the hinge mechanism is clunky as hell. If they just offered a left or right hand hinge It would be perfect. The P320 chassis works but had some fitment issues I was able to address with filing. I tried three different FCU’s, and none fit without a hammer before filing. other people had no issues at all, so clearly the machining tolerances leaves some to be desired. I like them because they make cool stuff. Not “it looks cool” kind of stuff, but things that were a great idea but just needed to be designed a little better. They do have a Glock compatible chassis coming out, and it appears to use a proprietary FCU similar to SIG. I really am interested in that because of Franklin armory binary Glock slides. One of those on something like this could be a lot of fun and the closest a poor like me could get to a tiny sub gun, haha. But, strike is making it. I don’t particularly trust strike with making a gun. Hopefully it’s like their AR lowers that simply had their logo stamped on them, but they were manufactured and sold by another company. Attached File |
|
Quoted: Thanks. Def more than I’d want to undertake at the moment to get a short (<9”) 300BO upper on a traditional AR lower with pic rail adapted back end and minimalist folding stock. ETA: can the FM15 be used on any ol’ AR lower? I was interested in the JAKL until learning you had to put some specific parts on the rear of the lower that wouldn’t allow a traditional AR .22lr upper to be swapped on. The 300 black uppers run a pistol gas system. You could very easily buy one of those, and have the barrel and hand guard chopped. The 9 inch could probably be chopped down to seven or so and you can slice one mlok slot off the hand guard. https://a3tactical.com/foxtrot-mike-300-blk-fm-15-bufferless-upper-receiver/ And yes. It fits on a standard Milspec AR lower with no additional parts aside from the rear pic adapter. |
|
Quoted: The 300 black uppers run a pistol gas system. You could very easily buy one of those, and have the barrel and hand guard chopped. The 9 inch could probably be chopped down to seven or so and you can slice one and block slot off the hand guard. https://a3tactical.com/foxtrot-mike-300-blk-fm-15-bufferless-upper-receiver/ And yes. It fits on a standard Milspec AR lower with no additional parts aside from the rear pic adapter. Quoted: Quoted: Thanks. Def more than I’d want to undertake at the moment to get a short (<9”) 300BO upper on a traditional AR lower with pic rail adapted back end and minimalist folding stock. ETA: can the FM15 be used on any ol’ AR lower? I was interested in the JAKL until learning you had to put some specific parts on the rear of the lower that wouldn’t allow a traditional AR .22lr upper to be swapped on. The 300 black uppers run a pistol gas system. You could very easily buy one of those, and have the barrel and hand guard chopped. The 9 inch could probably be chopped down to seven or so and you can slice one and block slot off the hand guard. https://a3tactical.com/foxtrot-mike-300-blk-fm-15-bufferless-upper-receiver/ And yes. It fits on a standard Milspec AR lower with no additional parts aside from the rear pic adapter. Sweet. Thanks for confirming the lower compatibility and the chop idea. I see that they come with a pic rail adapter, but I already have one Loctite’d in place and working just fine 
|
|
Quoted: Sweet. Thanks for confirming the lower compatibility and the chop idea. I see that they come with a pic rail adapter, but I already have one Loctite’d in place and working just fine This is actually the plan for mine. If it’s reliable, it’ll be one hell of a PDW. Attached File |
|
Quoted: This is actually the plan for mine. If it’s reliable, it’ll be one hell of a PDW. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/66797/IMG_1601_jpeg-3099690.JPG Quoted: Quoted: Sweet. Thanks for confirming the lower compatibility and the chop idea. I see that they come with a pic rail adapter, but I already have one Loctite’d in place and working just fine This is actually the plan for mine. If it’s reliable, it’ll be one hell of a PDW. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/66797/IMG_1601_jpeg-3099690.JPG Ohhhhhhh, that’s pretty. |
|
Flux defense has a new raider like platform for the sig P365 that looks interesting. Definitely would be a very small PDW setup Attached File Attached File Attached File |
|
Quoted: Flux defense has a new raider like platform for the sig P365 that looks interesting. Definitely would be a very small PDW setup https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/355044/IMG_9454_png-3102786.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/355044/IMG_9455_jpeg-3102787.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/355044/IMG_9456_png-3102788.JPG No Glock Flux Raider, no care. |
|
Quoted: No Glock Flux Raider, no care. Quoted: Quoted: Flux defense has a new raider like platform for the sig P365 that looks interesting. Definitely would be a very small PDW setup https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/355044/IMG_9454_png-3102786.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/355044/IMG_9455_jpeg-3102787.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/355044/IMG_9456_png-3102788.JPG No Glock Flux Raider, no care. Do they have a religious objection to money? |
|
Quoted: Rattler with a K can. Fits in a basic (tiny, 19L) Northface backpack with suppressor attached. Didn't buy it to be my traveling PDW but I'll be damned if it isn't perfect in that role. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/359052/1000005533_jpg-3085930.JPG Yeah, a suppressed Rattler (or something similar in 300BLK) is king. I'm jealous! I have an AR9 SD, but it's just not the same.
|
|
@AKSU What optics mounts are those on the M92 and M85? |
|
Quoted: Flux defense has a new raider like platform for the sig P365 that looks interesting. Definitely would be a very small PDW setup https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/355044/IMG_9454_png-3102786.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/355044/IMG_9455_jpeg-3102787.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/355044/IMG_9456_png-3102788.JPG yup, I'm buying the shit out of that as soon as I can Quoted: No Glock Flux Raider, no care. @Ben I have an original Flux glock. Get me a legal machine gun and it's yours Quoted: Its not as light or small as going unsuppressed with the minimalist stock but this is still my favorite Rattler set up, with the Hyperion K tucked under the sd rail. https://i.imgur.com/m4WrgxX.jpeg @74novaman that's pretty clean looking! Everything you need and nothing you don't. I noticed the "real" stock you have is much more comfy to shoot than the minimalist for not a huge weight/size penalty. I'm debating one of those rails or the MI version. My can is fat so it would but a tight ass fit but the rattler is perfect for all things I would reasonably "need" a rifle for, shy of the end of days. Even then it's solid within 100 yards, probably more if I aim high |
|
Quoted: I wish the Flux brace was still available for the Glock. I guess I'll have to settle for my NFA P90 as my PDW.  https://recovertactical.com/shop/ |
 NEW Flux Defense Raider 365: An IWB Concealable SIG P365 Chassis  Fluxcast Vol. 1 in this one they mention that with a stock, light, and another accessory the 365 raider is still lighter than a stock 1911. |
|
Quoted: Quoted: I wish the Flux brace was still available for the Glock. I guess I'll have to settle for my NFA P90 as my PDW. https://recovertactical.com/shop/ I have a couple Recover Tactical brace/chassis things. They're not as streamlined or refined as the FLUX. |
| I picked up a Recover Tactical for my Glock based on this thread. I will probably drop in my Glock 34. But in retrospect, since it’s the same footprint, I should have gotten the larger chassis for my 20. Literally the biggest bang for the size. For a PDW, I would like to gain accuracy as well as energy over my edc, even if it costs carrying different ammunition. |
|
Quoted: I have a couple Recover Tactical brace/chassis things. They're not as streamlined or refined as the FLUX. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I wish the Flux brace was still available for the Glock. I guess I'll have to settle for my NFA P90 as my PDW. https://recovertactical.com/shop/ I have a couple Recover Tactical brace/chassis things. They're not as streamlined or refined as the FLUX. Yeah, I've heard there is a noticeable difference in quality. |
|
Quoted: I picked up a Recover Tactical for my Glock based on this thread. I will probably drop in my Glock 34. But in retrospect, since it's the same footprint, I should have gotten the larger chassis for my 20. Literally the biggest bang for the size. For a PDW, I would like to gain accuracy as well as energy over my edc, even if it costs carrying different ammunition. On the one hand, if I'm selecting a pistol caliber over a rifle caliber then size efficiency and convenience are big considerations for the perceived threat and the profile I want to have. So the interchangeability of mags might rate higher to give more "combat persistence". OTOH, given the use case, how limiting a factor would the lack of one or two mags(on your belt for your EDC) be when most of these chassis setups have a provision for mounting a spare mag? Given the availability of 15-20+ round mags in 10mm, 30-40+ rounds on the gun should be ample for anything you should have brought a PDW along for anyway. |
|
Quoted: @AKSU What optics mounts are those on the M92 and M85? @towerofpower94 KDG Sidelok |
|
Ah, so you had a piece of pic rail riveted to the top covers? Thought it was some kind of clamping mount that interfaced with the rear sight assembly somehow. |
|
Welp, it’s here. Just waiting on the F1 and it’ll get a Sig PDW stock. May get a dedicated can but the Hybrid will work for now as I really don’t use it on anything else. Attached File |
|
Quoted: @74novaman that's pretty clean looking! Everything you need and nothing you don't. I noticed the "real" stock you have is much more comfy to shoot than the minimalist for not a huge weight/size penalty. I'm debating one of those rails or the MI version. My can is fat so it would but a tight ass fit but the rattler is perfect for all things I would reasonably "need" a rifle for, shy of the end of days. Even then it's solid within 100 yards, probably more if I aim high Thanks. Yeah, I have the minimalist but the sig folding stock is still super thin and light, and way more comfy to actually shoot. That's a Hyperion K under the rail so its 1.75" diameter can, and I can still get the mlok mount for the light on the rail with it, for reference. As cool as being as absolutely small and light as possible is, I have pistol caliber pdws that can be smaller and lighter, so if I'm going with the Rattler its because I want something in a rifle caliber, and would likely want it suppressed so that set up works well for me. The anvl mount with the built in buis is super nice and minimalist, big fan. |
|
Quoted: Welp, it’s here. Just waiting on the F1 and it’ll get a Sig PDW stock. May get a dedicated can but the Hybrid will work for now as I really don’t use it on anything else. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/294984/802584CC-BA0A-4919-80F9-8303BB31A4A7_jpe-3105000.JPG Nice! |
|
Quoted: For a PDW, I would like to gain accuracy as well as energy over my edc, even if it costs carrying different ammunition. Interestingly enough, its an issue even if you do something ban state friendly like a level gun and a revolver. Some .357 loads do not work super well thrown at 16" velocities out of a lever gun, which partially negates the appeal and usefulness of the "two guns, one ammo" concept. |
|
Quoted: Thanks. Yeah, I have the minimalist but the sig folding stock is still super thin and light, and way more comfy to actually shoot. That's a Hyperion K under the rail so its 1.75" diameter can, and I can still get the mlok mount for the light on the rail with it, for reference. As cool as being as absolutely small and light as possible is, I have pistol caliber pdws that can be smaller and lighter, so if I'm going with the Rattler its because I want something in a rifle caliber, and would likely want it suppressed so that set up works well for me. The anvl mount with the built in buis is super nice and minimalist, big fan. @74novaman got any more pics of the light/can with the rail? And correct me if I'm wrong but that looks like a canebrake rail to me, correct? |
|
Quoted: Interestingly enough, its an issue even if you do something ban state friendly like a level gun and a revolver. Some .357 loads do not work super well thrown at 16" velocities out of a lever gun, which partially negates the appeal and usefulness of the "two guns, one ammo" concept. Quoted: Quoted: For a PDW, I would like to gain accuracy as well as energy over my edc, even if it costs carrying different ammunition. Interestingly enough, its an issue even if you do something ban state friendly like a level gun and a revolver. Some .357 loads do not work super well thrown at 16" velocities out of a lever gun, which partially negates the appeal and usefulness of the "two guns, one ammo" concept. Lol, I've tested 125gr sjhp from my 20" m92. I got a 4" exit on one coyote and the other it didn't exit and the bullet was nothing but bits. When I shot milk jugs I think it blew up 2 jugs with no real bits left either I need to test my hst reloads |
|
Quoted: I have a couple Recover Tactical brace/chassis things. They're not as streamlined or refined as the FLUX. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I wish the Flux brace was still available for the Glock. I guess I'll have to settle for my NFA P90 as my PDW. https://recovertactical.com/shop/ I have a couple Recover Tactical brace/chassis things. They're not as streamlined or refined as the FLUX. However, I can actually buy one (and for a variety of guns). Try that with Flux
|
|
Quoted: @74novaman got any more pics of the light/can with the rail? And correct me if I'm wrong but that looks like a canebrake rail to me, correct? Have some specific angles you want? I'm assuming from the front to see the fit? Yep, that's the factory canebrake rail. |
|
Quoted:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O4HIOnkm4gThis was mentioned above, but here is a video in action. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xl1YAHrSsAin this one they mention that with a stock, light, and another accessory the 365 raider is still lighter than a stock 1911. I’ve been an avid polymer Sig critic for quite a while now, but this may possibly convert me to at least get one of them. |
|
Quoted: Have some specific angles you want? I'm assuming from the front to see the fit? Yep, that's the factory canebrake rail. @74novaman yeah from the front would be cool, and a measurement from the attachment point if you don't mind of overall length. I have an MG7k and while fat, it's also short |