User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 4/12/2015 7:04:07 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think the NRA needs to release a statement on this matter and explain its stance real quick. rest assured.....numerous board members have been firing off inquiries all day..... |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2015 7:07:01 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not exactly sure who, ATF or Citizen, is going to benefit from this 'broadening' of the SP clause.... that has yet to be made clear......so I'm uncertain who will be driving said bus, but it sure sounds like we're under it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I agree sporting purposes should go away. But making sporting purposes so broad we can drive a bus through it is nearly as good and much more achievable in the short term. ATF has put themselves in a whole and we don't need to give up anything to get it. I'm not exactly sure who, ATF or Citizen, is going to benefit from this 'broadening' of the SP clause.... that has yet to be made clear......so I'm uncertain who will be driving said bus, but it sure sounds like we're under it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2015 7:08:47 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Until we see text of an amendment it's hard to know who will be under the bus. If nothing changes ATF will probably be forced to declare an amnesty for all pistol grip shotguns with a bore over .5" and future sales will be regulated by the NFA. Unfortunately that's the law as currently written. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I agree sporting purposes should go away. But making sporting purposes so broad we can drive a bus through it is nearly as good and much more achievable in the short term. ATF has put themselves in a whole and we don't need to give up anything to get it. I'm not exactly sure who, ATF or Citizen, is going to benefit from this 'broadening' of the SP clause.... that has yet to be made clear......so I'm uncertain who will be driving said bus, but it sure sounds like we're under it. I would rather see that than possibly lose ammo imports of any type.... |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2015 7:09:39 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They could stretch armor piercing to easily include almost all center fire rifle ammunition . . No, the law is based on the materials used for bullet construction, not performance. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2015 7:14:11 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would rather see that than possibly lose ammo imports of any type.... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I agree sporting purposes should go away. But making sporting purposes so broad we can drive a bus through it is nearly as good and much more achievable in the short term. ATF has put themselves in a whole and we don't need to give up anything to get it. I'm not exactly sure who, ATF or Citizen, is going to benefit from this 'broadening' of the SP clause.... that has yet to be made clear......so I'm uncertain who will be driving said bus, but it sure sounds like we're under it. I would rather see that than possibly lose ammo imports of any type.... |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2015 7:17:28 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, the law is based on the materials used for bullet construction, not performance. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: They could stretch armor piercing to easily include almost all center fire rifle ammunition . . No, the law is based on the materials used for bullet construction, not performance. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2015 7:23:37 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When the NRA was talking about widening the sporting purpose they were talking about widening in our favor. Probably to specifically prevent rifle ammunition being classified as armor piercing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
They could stretch armor piercing to easily include almost all center fire rifle ammunition . . No, the law is based on the materials used for bullet construction, not performance. If possible, could you please direct me to where the NRA has made such a statement? Thanks! |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2015 7:26:45 PM EST
[#8]
I've been thinking about this, trying to get it to make sense.
I am not an NRA member. Because of all the weird crap they do in NC. Often at odds with GRNC and taking the compromise (some gun control route.) most of the time. I am not really a fan of them at times, Other times I am. I will say it appears that since the FUDDS are dying off and getting older and don't hunt as much, buy ammo, accessories etc... that the para-military types (for lack a better term) may be getting at least a little nod of acknowledgement. Anyway. They have a place at times. Other times You wish they would go away. So lets think of a plausible scenario. It could be possible that the NRA may know things we don't, and it may be possible that the ATF could have agents that are are good guys that inform the NRA when stuff is going to come down. So we know Blammo wants gun control and he has to do it illegally er... Through "executive action" Because he is not getting anything through Congress, has he tried at all since the elections? Nope. Blammo tried an ammo ban via redefinition and got a ton of bad press of course they don't really care about that as they know nothing will ever happen to them they just don't like the exposure. So maybe the NRA got wind of this funny thing that is ripe for a redefinition, (that thanks to the Supremes they no longer have to get comments on) As has been said the regs are a mess and a redefinition would make shotguns without a shoulder stock a DD which it appears they could easily be nade that way just to keep everything consistent. Perfect situation to screw millions of people he hates. So Maybe it was going to occur, or maybe the NRA wants to cut it off before anything happens and to get leverage on the ATF they used the whole 885 ammo "ban" to get a foot in the door. Sort of like this " Hey ATF You think you have egg on your face now, with Congress wanting to shut you down. Wait until they get a load of THIS." we better fix this now. Maybe like that. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2015 7:31:53 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If possible, could you please direct me to where the NRA has made such a statement? Thanks! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: They could stretch armor piercing to easily include almost all center fire rifle ammunition . . No, the law is based on the materials used for bullet construction, not performance. If possible, could you please direct me to where the NRA has made such a statement? Thanks! |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2015 7:37:07 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is speculation on my part based upon recent M855 outrage and the ATF's current DD shotgun conundrum. Gotcha, well I can tell you that the NRA ILA are almost all "Black gun" guys these days..... I'd be surprised if they don't want to see the SP Clause eliminated. IMO this move would only serve to legitimize and harden the SP clause against future action. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2015 7:41:27 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Gotcha, well I can tell you that the NRA ILA are almost all "Black gun" guys these days..... I'd be surprised if they don't want to see the SP Clause eliminated. IMO this move would only serve to legitimize and harden the SP clause against future action. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That is speculation on my part based upon recent M855 outrage and the ATF's current DD shotgun conundrum. Gotcha, well I can tell you that the NRA ILA are almost all "Black gun" guys these days..... I'd be surprised if they don't want to see the SP Clause eliminated. IMO this move would only serve to legitimize and harden the SP clause against future action. sporting purposes needs to go. It just makes a mess of things |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2015 7:44:06 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gotcha, well I can tell you that the NRA ILA are almost all "Black gun" guys these days..... I'd be surprised if they don't want to see the SP Clause eliminated. IMO this move would only serve to legitimize and harden the SP clause against future action. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That is speculation on my part based upon recent M855 outrage and the ATF's current DD shotgun conundrum. Gotcha, well I can tell you that the NRA ILA are almost all "Black gun" guys these days..... I'd be surprised if they don't want to see the SP Clause eliminated. IMO this move would only serve to legitimize and harden the SP clause against future action. In the meantime broadening sporting purposes could mean all shotgun based firearms are removed from the NFA and importable. If 3 gun is recognized as a sporting purpose we might see new USAS12s as non NFA items that can be imported. Eta: It could also mean semi auto "assault rifles" are recognized as sporting and importable. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2015 8:07:44 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In the meantime broadening sporting purposes could mean all shotgun based firearms are removed from the NFA and importable. If 3 gun is recognized as a sporting purpose we might see new USAS12s as non NFA items that can be imported. Eta: It could also mean semi auto "assault rifles" are recognized as sporting and importable. Well, we are both just speculating on what, if any, plans they have. But I don't see the ATF doing any of the above with regards to imports, and even if they do I don't want to give up anything to get it. I see in the article that tracers are mentioned, well AFAIK tracers can only be imported for MIL/LEO use anyways, yes some imported stuff has made it's way onto the market but I don't think it came in on a Form 6 listed as tracers for civilian sale.... So if thats the case...what "specialty" ammo is the ATF after? |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2015 8:11:51 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've stopped using smile.amazon.com that I have set to donate to NRA Civil Rights Defense Fund until this is resolved. Just switch your charity to the Second Amendment Foundation. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2015 8:30:12 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What I want to know is WHY THE FUCK is mossberg not mass-marketing a 14" gun? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Interesting article on it today: http://waronguns.blogspot.com/2015/04/atf-classification-compromise-to.html and Here: http://www.examiner.com/article/atf-classification-compromise-to-redefine-sporting-use-ban-certain-ammo-imports "The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives’ classification of pistol grip only firearms with 14” barrels that fire shotgun shells and are over 26” in overall length as neither “shotguns” nor National Firearms Act “Destructive Devices” or “Any Other Weapons” has created a situation wherein the agency must either quietly save face or have it exposed that untold numbers of good faith gun owners currently legally possess firearms problematic for the government to allow. In order to allow that status quo to continue, ATF, in conjunction with certain members of Congress and lobbying interests, is working at “tweaking” its definition of the arbitrary “sporting use” term, insider sources tell Gun Rights Examiner. And with that will come a push to expand definitions to allow for further importation bans on certain types or presently legal ammunition." This would also effect ANY pistol gripped shotgun, which according to ATF is not a shotgun because it is not designed to be fired from the shoulder....Are we talking millions of firearms and owners or just hundreds of thousands of them? Anybody have any solid information on who in congress is pushing this? What I want to know is WHY THE FUCK is mossberg not mass-marketing a 14" gun? I've been wondering that myself, I think this turn of events is the answer. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2015 8:58:45 PM EST
[#16]
Before everyone jumps on the "evil NRA" bandwagon, I suggest looking at the article sources listed so far. Not the most reliable.
While I have no doubt the ATF is doing this, the bit about the NRA "colluding" with the ATF is hard to believe. More likely is that the NRA is involved and is fighting on our side, which is what I expect them to do. The newspaper is just making news and people are freaking out. I expect good news to come out of this if the NRA is truly involved. Maybe even the ATF having to admit to a rather colossal mistake, opening the door to congressional action against the ATF and NFA. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2015 9:03:27 PM EST
[#17]
No quarter. None.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2015 9:07:59 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just switch your charity to the Second Amendment Foundation. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I've stopped using smile.amazon.com that I have set to donate to NRA Civil Rights Defense Fund until this is resolved. Just switch your charity to the Second Amendment Foundation. Off topic, but thanks to both of you. I order a ton off amazon, and didn't know about smile. I just set the SAF up for 0.5% of all my purchases. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2015 9:22:04 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Off topic, but thanks to both of you. I order a ton off amazon, and didn't know about smile. I just set the SAF up for 0.5% of all my purchases. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I've stopped using smile.amazon.com that I have set to donate to NRA Civil Rights Defense Fund until this is resolved. Just switch your charity to the Second Amendment Foundation. Off topic, but thanks to both of you. I order a ton off amazon, and didn't know about smile. I just set the SAF up for 0.5% of all my purchases. Done, and no problem. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2015 9:23:34 PM EST
[#20]
Wait, you mean the NRA is selling us out, AGAIN? Say it isn't so.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2015 9:47:16 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just switch your charity to the Second Amendment Foundation. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I've stopped using smile.amazon.com that I have set to donate to NRA Civil Rights Defense Fund until this is resolved. Just switch your charity to the Second Amendment Foundation. They might be worse as far as I can tell Gottlieb was recently willing to compromise on so called Universal Background Checks....and also be advised SAF runs the JPFO now...ugh... |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2015 9:48:35 PM EST
[#22]
I'd definitely be in for a something similar in a side by side 12g, because 'Road Warrior.'
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2015 10:09:39 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll82/John_McFly/ARfcom/100_1501.jpg Definitely the most giggle-inducing gun I own. Kharn Seeing that makes me want to build one. What is the easiest route? Damn the ATF and possible reclassification. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2015 10:15:15 PM EST
[#24]
tag for reading
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2015 10:19:27 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess I need to start panic buying again... |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2015 10:58:34 PM EST
[#26]
hunting is a sport
 |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2015 11:05:09 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryCentral Flyway Conservation Order. That pretty much guts any sporting purpose shotgun test. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/13/2015 12:37:46 AM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Too many in circulation. The outcry would be worse than the M855 fiasco. Out of the total population? that's a burp in the grand scheme of things. 99% of the population couldn't give a shit about some guys toy shotguns he has to keep the boogey man out of his house. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/13/2015 1:27:11 AM EST
[#29]
When France was liberated from the Nazis, Nazi collaborators were dragged into the street and publicly shamed, if they were lucky.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/13/2015 2:37:53 AM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
While unrelated, my 14" AOW is the only thing that cops seem to want to inspect when they see me shooting it at the public quarry. Something about a 30 year old cut up Mossberg really rustles their jimmies. Almost half of the time, I get asked for papers while they waste my shooting daylight "calling it in". I really think AOW's are the dirty step-child that the government wants to ban.  BS. all teh cops right here tells me that cept for a "few bad apples" cops love the constitution and popular gun ownership and would refuse to obey orders to enforce (more) unconstitutional gun laws. You are telling me that cops routinely go out of hteir way to enforece unconstitutional gun laws even when NOT ordered by their superiors?!?!? |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/13/2015 2:57:23 AM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
this exactly Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I think the NRA needs to release a statement on this matter and explain its stance real quick. That and I want to know who the US ammo manufacturers are that are lobbying for ammo import restrictions so we can start boycotting the stores/vendors that stock their ammo brand. So are these meetings a matter of public record? this exactly |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/13/2015 3:06:04 AM EST
[#32]
so per the article, there are a couple of guy's who are on trial in federal courts for NFA violations for possing like mossberg cruisers? And, the ATF realizes now that if these cases go forward that would either:
1. set a precedent of prosecution for non-stocked shotgun which would be problematic since there are millions of them. 2. force them to do something to the sporting purpose clause? What exactly? The GCA is pretty clear that of guns w/ > .5" bore, only sporting shotguns are exempted, and a shotgun is elsewhere defines as either "w/ a shoulder stock" or "designed to be fired from the shoulder" So, yeah. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/13/2015 3:11:42 AM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
While unrelated, my 14" AOW is the only thing that cops seem to want to inspect when they see me shooting it at the public quarry. Something about a 30 year old cut up Mossberg really rustles their jimmies. Almost half of the time, I get asked for papers while they waste my shooting daylight "calling it in". I really think AOW's are the dirty step-child that the government wants to ban. What papers? 
You mean confidential tax documents that they have no right to? Ha, tell 'em to politely fuck off. I don't carry tax documents with me wherever I go... http://cdn.meme.am/images/300x/2745079.jpg unfortuantely, many or most states have laws that make possession of many NFA items illegal unless they are registerd w/ the NFA which means that per the local law they can arrest you. It is typically held that you have to make a "positive defense" (or was it affirmative defense), which means that you have prove you innocence rather than the state having to prove guilt, which is fucked up big time as it violates "innocent till proven guilty." Seems to be that if it is possibel for someone to own something legally in a partiuclar area, the presumption shoudl be that it is owned licitly w/o some other evidence. Anyway polymorphous, what is your point? Why are you giving a fellow gun onwer a hard time for his lack of respect for law enforcers enforcing unconstitutinoal laws? |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/13/2015 3:16:43 AM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
unfortuantely, many or most states have laws that make possession of many NFA items illegal unless they are registerd w/ the NFA which means that per the local law they can arrest you. It is typically held that you have to make a "positive defense" (or was it affirmative defense), which means that you have prove you innocence rather than the state having to prove guilt, which is fucked up big time as it violates "innocent till proven guilty." Seems to be that if it is possibel for someone to own something legally in a partiuclar area, the presumption shoudl be that it is owned licitly w/o some other evidence. Anyway polymorphous, what is your point? Why are you giving a fellow gun onwer a hard time for his lack of respect for law enforcers enforcing unconstitutinoal laws? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
While unrelated, my 14" AOW is the only thing that cops seem to want to inspect when they see me shooting it at the public quarry. Something about a 30 year old cut up Mossberg really rustles their jimmies. Almost half of the time, I get asked for papers while they waste my shooting daylight "calling it in". I really think AOW's are the dirty step-child that the government wants to ban. What papers?
You mean confidential tax documents that they have no right to? Ha, tell 'em to politely fuck off. I don't carry tax documents with me wherever I go... http://cdn.meme.am/images/300x/2745079.jpg unfortuantely, many or most states have laws that make possession of many NFA items illegal unless they are registerd w/ the NFA which means that per the local law they can arrest you. It is typically held that you have to make a "positive defense" (or was it affirmative defense), which means that you have prove you innocence rather than the state having to prove guilt, which is fucked up big time as it violates "innocent till proven guilty." Seems to be that if it is possibel for someone to own something legally in a partiuclar area, the presumption shoudl be that it is owned licitly w/o some other evidence. Anyway polymorphous, what is your point? Why are you giving a fellow gun onwer a hard time for his lack of respect for law enforcers enforcing unconstitutinoal laws? He's just talking hard. I doubt that hard talk would come out when dealing with LEO. But this IS Arfcom. So everyone is a badass. BTW, IMO every gun law is unconstitutional. Shall NOT be infringed. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/13/2015 4:41:18 AM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Seeing that makes me want to build one. What is the easiest route? Damn the ATF and possible reclassification. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll82/John_McFly/ARfcom/100_1501.jpg Definitely the most giggle-inducing gun I own. Kharn Seeing that makes me want to build one. What is the easiest route? Damn the ATF and possible reclassification. For mine, it was buy an 870 at Walmart, pay $200 for SBS tax, add $30 grip and $140 barrel. Pistol-grip-only 870s are incredibly hard to find. It's really dumb that it had to be taxed just because of the way it left the factory... Kharn |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/13/2015 4:51:56 AM EST
[#36]
What's to stop these sons of bitches from declaring "a shotgun with a pistol grip is not a shotgun, it's a spaceship"
That's exactly what they're doing, just arbitrarily making shit up out of thin air. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/13/2015 5:17:31 AM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For mine, it was buy an 870 at Walmart, pay $200 for SBS tax, add $30 grip and $140 barrel. Pistol-grip-only 870s are incredibly hard to find. It's really dumb that it had to be taxed just because of the way it left the factory... Kharn Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll82/John_McFly/ARfcom/100_1501.jpg Definitely the most giggle-inducing gun I own. Kharn Seeing that makes me want to build one. What is the easiest route? Damn the ATF and possible reclassification. For mine, it was buy an 870 at Walmart, pay $200 for SBS tax, add $30 grip and $140 barrel. Pistol-grip-only 870s are incredibly hard to find. It's really dumb that it had to be taxed just because of the way it left the factory... Kharn If that is the case I guess a 590A1 SBS might just have to do. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/13/2015 5:26:07 AM EST
[#38]
Should I start neck-bearding shotgun P-Grips now?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/13/2015 5:30:00 AM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wait, you mean the NRA is selling us out, AGAIN? Say it isn't so. It wouldn't surprise me. Feels like the 90's again. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/13/2015 5:34:12 AM EST
[#40]
Quoted:
Interesting article on it today: This would also effect ANY pistol gripped shotgun, which according to ATF is not a shotgun because it is not designed to be fired from the shoulder.... Wait! If I put it to my shoulder then it's still a shotgun right? Intent and all, can't have it both ways. Isn't this the same lunacy on the Sig Brace. I swear we are swirling faster then all hell to ruin our country. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/13/2015 5:40:39 AM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They might be worse as far as I can tell Gottlieb was recently willing to compromise on so called Universal Background Checks....and also be advised SAF runs the JPFO now...ugh... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I've stopped using smile.amazon.com that I have set to donate to NRA Civil Rights Defense Fund until this is resolved. Just switch your charity to the Second Amendment Foundation. They might be worse as far as I can tell Gottlieb was recently willing to compromise on so called Universal Background Checks....and also be advised SAF runs the JPFO now...ugh... Then switch to the NRA CRDF. But seriously, you should have them donate to one or the other. Doesn't cost anything and it's better than letting Amazon keep it.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/13/2015 7:27:17 AM EST
[#42]
http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2015/04/chris-cox-i-categorically-deny.html
Chris Cox goes on the record categorically denying everything.... |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/13/2015 7:51:10 AM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, the law is based on the materials used for bullet construction, not performance. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
They could stretch armor piercing to easily include almost all center fire rifle ammunition . . No, the law is based on the materials used for bullet construction, not performance. And yet, a month ago.... |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/13/2015 7:54:43 AM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But they have sources in the NRA. Secret sources. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The Examiner article seems intentionally as vague as possible, in order to fuel as much wild speculation as possible. But they have sources in the NRA. Secret sources. Something tells me that everytime the NRA board sees this "reporter" that the only thing they say is "security". The "press release" doesn't say anything, it implies a vast conspiracy with the political parties and the NRA. I'll bet the author has so ideas about the grassy knoll and Russian mobsters buried in the back of his mind that he'll gladly share if given a chance. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/13/2015 8:01:55 AM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2015/04/chris-cox-i-categorically-deny.html Chris Cox goes on the record categorically denying everything.... Someone is full of shit. Thats a pretty black and white statement by Cox that I don't think he would make if he were partaking in some shenanigans. Even Bill's "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" statement left him some wiggle room. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/13/2015 8:11:23 AM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Someone is full of shit. Thats a pretty black and white statement by Cox that I don't think he would make if he were partaking in some shenanigans. Even Bill's "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" statement left him some wiggle room. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2015/04/chris-cox-i-categorically-deny.html Chris Cox goes on the record categorically denying everything.... Someone is full of shit. Thats a pretty black and white statement by Cox that I don't think he would make if he were partaking in some shenanigans. Even Bill's "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" statement left him some wiggle room. Yeah, it will be interesting to see where this goes. I'm guessing that any 'confirmation' at this stage will likely be hearsay, as uncovering this at all would have made a deal pretty much untenable for the NRA leadership. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/13/2015 8:17:24 AM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Following the logic; ATF in the FFL Newsletter states: https://www.scribd.com/doc/261463668/Atf-Newsletter-2009 If a pistol gripped shotgun is "NOT" a shotgun, under the NFA it is a Destructive Device if the bore is greater than 1/2". Given the numbers currently in private hands either made that way factory (or by the owners) since 1968, enforcement at this point is no longer an option.... So since 1968 untold numbers of NFA firearms (Destructive Devices) have been in citizen hands and public safety was not impacted....Hmmm If there ever was proof that some NFA firearms need not be regulated under the NFA, there it is. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/13/2015 8:17:55 AM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, it will be interesting to see where this goes. I'm guessing that any 'confirmation' at this stage will likely be hearsay, as uncovering this at all would have made a deal pretty much untenable for the NRA leadership. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2015/04/chris-cox-i-categorically-deny.html Chris Cox goes on the record categorically denying everything.... Someone is full of shit. Thats a pretty black and white statement by Cox that I don't think he would make if he were partaking in some shenanigans. Even Bill's "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" statement left him some wiggle room. Yeah, it will be interesting to see where this goes. I'm guessing that any 'confirmation' at this stage will likely be hearsay, as uncovering this at all would have made a deal pretty much untenable for the NRA leadership. Yup, we will never find out whats going on here Unless someone can get some very solid sources But at least the deal is sabotaged, that is all that matters to me |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/13/2015 8:31:23 AM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
for it to be a DD it would have to have a rifled bore... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Following the logic; ATF in the FFL Newsletter states: https://www.scribd.com/doc/261463668/Atf-Newsletter-2009 If a pistol gripped shotgun is "NOT" a shotgun, under the NFA it is a Destructive Device if the bore is greater than 1/2". Given the numbers currently in private hands either made that way factory (or by the owners) since 1968, enforcement at this point is no longer an option.... So since 1968 untold numbers of NFA firearms (Destructive Devices) have been in citizen hands and public safety was not impacted....Hmmm If there ever was proof that some NFA firearms need not be regulated under the NFA, there it is. I'm pretty sure that mortars (a DD) aren't rifled. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/13/2015 8:47:04 AM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If (according to ATF) merely shouldering a wrist brace "re-designs" a pistol into a Short Barreled Rifle and requires registration, then attaching a pistol grip to a shotgun will be considered not "re-designing"? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This is all because of AR-15 pistols and Sig braces right? If (according to ATF) merely shouldering a wrist brace "re-designs" a pistol into a Short Barreled Rifle and requires registration, then attaching a pistol grip to a shotgun will be considered not "re-designing"? |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
