https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2018/09/21/the-army-is-supposed-to-be-growing-but-this-year-it-didnt-at-all/

Recruitment numbers down, waivers for medical.
As far as specific asthma thing, I was informed by enlisted personnel that while asthma at any point your life would have been disqualifying pre 2008 or so, now if you had it as a kid and a doctor cleared you of it as an adult there was a waiver. I believed the guys that told me. If I’m shown information that proves otherwise of course I’ll own up to the mistake.

I could leave service tomorrow and make 20-30k more.  At entry level wages.

Guarantee they didn’t factor ACTUAL hours worked to on-duty hours ON PAPER.

Name one senior NCO or Officer that doesn’t put in an extra 2 hours a day between skipped lunches and after 5. Name one Junior Enlisted that doesn’t get regularly tapped for 24hr shifts, extra details, etc. regardless of branch or specialty. How many hours do you work on deployment?

Turns out, the military as a whole has a bunch of labor practices that quietly make a lot of extra time disappear.

No, but it can vary greatly depending on a lot of factors.

I remember taking a huge pay cut when I went from E-5 to GS-9.

This.

If you break military salary down to an hourly comparison, they are definately not overpaid.

My paychecks doubled the day I retired and took a similar job role as a contractor.  That tells me I was very underpaid for my position for many years.

Thats subjective, the us government runs in deficits.

But I'm ok with cutting a lot of things before focusing on military spending.

. Craziest shit I’ve read today.    Just like the day after Trump was elected they started screaming “Impeach 45!”

News article was a seed planted for the left.  It will grow, it will become a talking point.

Not when I was in. I seriously doubt it has changed in 25 years. Leftists loathe the military. They sure like making 10 million a movie for pretending to be one though.

When a regular work week is 60-70 hours and you still qualify for WIC there is something wrong

No but the politicians are.

All true.

I can remember when my E-8 father only made about eight hundred dollars a month.
WWll.
Korea.
Vietnam.

Some MOSs are overpaid and some are underpaid.

Example: I was a linguist.  I made an extra $1000 a month in FLP pay because I spoke enough languages to max it out.  I was also married, lived of base so I got BAH/BAS.  All this as E3.  I had biweekly checks that varied between 1700-1950 after taxes and after putting several hundred into my TSP.

I was way overpaid compared to my peers.  I also had a higher skill set but I still felt overpaid.

That said when I got out I had contracting job offers for 2-4x what I was making in the Marines, but I'm in school on the GI bill now.

If I was in charge of military pay I would probably be hated by about everyone.   I would cut BAH, O1-O3 pay, probably reduce base pay a small bit but I think deployment and combat zone pay should be bumped way up.

$800 in 1972 is equivalent to $4900 now.

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

I make a lot more now than I ever thought I would in the military.  However if I left I could double it.

Yeah, well they can rock on because that's not the equivalent of what we got.

lol

I remember some other military kids down the street that stole bikes so their staff sgt daddy could repaint them and fence them off to some other asshole for extra income.
I wish I was bullshitting but I'm not..

Out of curiosity, why cut BAH?

This is a fair and reasoned answer. The more skill you require or the more you go into harms way the more you should get paid.

Figure up how much they are paid per hour and get back to me.

Don’t forget you are on call, around the clock, every day.

Typical day in garrison was get there at 6 am and leave no earlier than 7 pm.  Friday’s sometimes left at 5 pm. Frequently went in Sat morning for a couple of hours.

Enlisted personnel are underpaid.
I can’t speak about officers and I can’t speak to any experience other than mine.

Base pay is too low, by probably 20%.

Military healthcare is a joke. It doesn’t matter if it’s free, if it substandard to the point where it’s a meme, is it really healthcare? The Motrin and fluids is a real prescription, though there is a new approach of adding “physical therapy” to the regimen.

Chow halls are bad, consuming mass produced food for years is not good for you. Substandard nutrition aside, they are also are a breeding ground for bacteria. (Work in a high ops tempo job? You might not have time to even go get shitty food) Some chow halls are better than others, but you don’t have the luxury of picking and choosing if there is only one on your base. (You want better food? Deploy. The chow halls magically get better when base commanders have to eat at them)

Junior enlisted housing is a carpeted prison cell, at every base I’ve been at, the dorms are substandard and would get any civilian property manager sued into poverty. Inconsistent water temps, “suite mates”, inconsistent HVAC, no provisions for home cooking, and all the other weird shit I’ve seen.

School is “paid for” but you only get to take extra classes if you are not in a career development program, upgrade training, PME, or in a deployment with stable internet, or any other number of disqualifying events. And god help you if you fail a class or even get less then a “c”.

The deployment cycle. Working for 210 days /13 hour shifts without a day off, is, um.. it sucks. Also, deploy every 18 months, for years.

BAH is the only entitlement that has value. But BAH is only afforded to married and NCOs without meeting very strict criteria.

BAS is a joke. Who can maintain effective nutrition on 300 bucks a month? Survive? Yes, but you will be making sacrifices.

Commissary and BX/PX are marginal. They consistently get beat on prices on the economy even factoring in “tax free”. Our BX is used to try on or look at something and order it from amazon while you walk out of the store.

MWR varies from base to base, I’ve seen awesome MWR programs and really shitty MWR programs. So it’s luck of the draw where you are stationed.

But even though it sucks, I love the bastards I call brothers and sisters and am proud to serve alongside them and I will keep working to make the lives of my subordinates and peers better.

I think I made about $800 after taxes as an E-1 in '07.  My salary as a sheriff's deputy blew away anything I made in the army by far.  If I had gone with Baltimore PD I'd have been breaking six figures with OT.

Meh. I'm paid enough. Not as much as some and more than others. Probably not near as much as I'd be making after 21 years in a civilian job, but I'm not bitching.

There's no shortage of personnel who thought about jumping, did the numbers, and realized that their "real compensation" wasn't going to be attainable civ side with their resume.

The pay ain't bad. It's better if you're smart about it.

Its impossible to have a rational debate about this as the emotions of the issue run high.
The military if you consider base pay, per diem pays, and the slew of benefits while in and after; pays a reasonable wage with long lasting post service benefits.

Is there a financial or life style incentive that does not exist elsewhere that is making you stay?

I have not been in the military so my thoughts on this topic are based on conversations with retired military who I have worked with.

For example.  I worked for a few years with a retired Marine Corps officer.  He told me that coming to work for us was a huge pay raise but when he factored in the loss of his housing allowance, health care costs, and other benefits he was living on the same amount of money.  I asked him why he didn't go work for the government as a civilian or a contractor like everyone else.  He has since left the company.

E1 to E9 are all underpaid for the stuff they have to deal with period.

Officers are slightly different. 01-02 that act like children, and don't understand there role in a line platoon, are infact overpaid.

Ask any E6-E8 that had any experience and gave a shit about the military what they thought about junior officers that didn't act accordingly to their rank/pay

Warrant officers?

Don't mess with them lol

Not even close when you consider the military owns you 24/7/365 and has no work hour restrictions and minimal safety requirements that are often ignored for the mission.

When all members if the military start getting compensation comparable to our federal legislators then we can begin talking being paid too much.  Until then no they are not even close to being paid too much.

Get back to us when the Government is paying them. Until then who cares what anyone in the private sector gets paid. Freedom is fucking scary.

Absolutely

Most of the jobs military folks can get out and make more money in are taxpayer funded jobs.

Those jobs generally have no retention problems, and a line of qualified people trying to get in on the deal.

So, if someone is making too much money, this little reality should show who that is.

It’s all about recruiting and retention, period. But, 87% of the arguments about any public sector pay are wrapped up in raw emotion.

Shrink the military... start something like the legion with citizenship for service..

No idea. But the proof is the market. If it had the same value and high barrier of entry as a dr (random example) then they'd pay similar money.

Recruiting is easy. Retention is the hard part.

The military is paid too much.  Members arent.  Theres a difference, and the problem can be solved by cutting out so much goddamn unecessary shit.

Horrible idea.

I see what you're saying there.

Cut BAH? Do you realize housing costs different in different parts of the country? How do you propose married, ncos and junior officers afford a place to live? You might squeak by in BFE Montana, but California or Florida would eat most of your base pay. Hell, the mortgages in my area are 1700/mo for not in the ghetto.

I don't think their base pay and allowances are too much, but I do think Uncle Sugar needs to take it easy with the bonuses.

Tax advantages of BAH and special pays even things out significantly.

The widest disparity is probably between O6-O10 and their civilian counterparts who are executives of large private sector orgs.  Although that may not be as comparable as with state or federal government, where pay rates for leadership are more equal to the military.

Also, being an E3 with four kids is a choice.  That doesn’t mean your employer has a duty to support your family planning or lack thereof.

The military retirement system needs to be revamped..again

It just did, google “blended retirement system”

I’m aware of that.

I’m talking something that doesn’t screw over new troops.

No, But most government contractors especially the consultants like Rand with their  dumb ass studies and reports