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Posted: 6/26/2019 2:43:24 PM EDT
[#1]
lolberts are the autistic children of "our side".
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Posted: 6/26/2019 2:43:36 PM EDT
[#2]
Freedom and liberty are only valid concepts among educated Western civilizations. Sorry. Not sorry.
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Posted: 6/26/2019 2:46:13 PM EDT
[#3]
Libertarianism is an ideology.
An ideology is a collection of normative beliefs and values that an individual or group holds for other than purely epistemic reasons. In other words, these rely on basic assumptions about reality that may or may not have any factual basis. |
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Posted: 6/26/2019 2:46:21 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
I have spent several days streaming a Libertarian podcast. Full disclosure: I am a registered Libertarian. I have concluded that Libertarians are possessed of child-like mentalities, a complaint which they levy about Socialists. Libertarians are effectively clueless about the world, and will never be taken seriously by anyone seeking political direction. That is all . You can replace "libertarians" with just about any noun and you'd be accurate 100% of the time. Most people have the mental and emotional capacity of a 12 year old and are ignorant of the world outside of their basement. Hell, just look around GD. |
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Posted: 6/26/2019 2:46:46 PM EDT
[#5]
Like communists/socialists, Libertarian are also Utopians who get human nature wrong.
Libertarian's misunderstanding of human nature is benign. Communists/socialists misunderstanding of human nature is malignant. Libertarians are misguided. Communists/socialists are evil. IMO. |
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Posted: 6/26/2019 2:47:40 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Like communists/socialists, Libertarian are also Utopians who get human nature wrong. Libertarian's misunderstanding of human nature is benign. Communists/socialists misunderstanding of human nature is malignant. Libertarians are misguided. Communists/socialists are evil. IMO. |
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Posted: 6/26/2019 2:49:38 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Like communists/socialists, Libertarian are also Utopians who get human nature wrong. Libertarian's misunderstanding of human nature is benign. Communists/socialists misunderstanding of human nature is malignant. Libertarians are misguided. Communists/socialists are evil. IMO. |
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Posted: 6/26/2019 2:50:43 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You can replace "libertarians" with just about any noun and you'd be accurate 100% of the time. Most people have the mental and emotional capacity of a 12 year old and are ignorant of the world outside of their basement. Hell, just look around GD. We are all born homo sapiens, not all of us evolve into human beings. The problem this poses is that you can't predict who will evolve, so if you wish to encourage it, you need a freedom based system. If you wish to punt and just accept that all people are animals and always will be, and this is better because you're at the top and animals are easy to control, you want a communist/socialist system where you determine which animals get fed. |
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Posted: 6/26/2019 2:51:02 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Like communists/socialists, Libertarian are also Utopians who get human nature wrong. Libertarian's misunderstanding of human nature is benign. Communists/socialists misunderstanding of human nature is malignant. Libertarians are misguided. Communists/socialists are evil. IMO. |
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Posted: 6/26/2019 2:52:53 PM EDT
[#10]
So they peaked mentally in Jr. High.
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Posted: 6/26/2019 2:53:20 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, and this is why all utopian approaches to anything will fail. We are all born homo sapiens, not all of us evolve into human beings. The problem this poses is that you can't predict who will evolve, so if you wish to encourage it, you need a freedom based system. If you wish to punt and just accept that all people are animals and always will be, and this is better because you're at the top and animals are easy to control, you want a communist/socialist system where you determine which animals get fed. |
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Posted: 6/26/2019 2:53:39 PM EDT
[#12]
Talk with enough of them and you'll figure out that they are all frauds, just like most conservatives. A perfect libertarian government would have the entire government funded by tariffs (no need to track a citizen's property, sales, or income), but look at any libertarian outlet and they are screaming bloody murder about tariffs. Some are even in favor of shit like carbon taxes.
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Posted: 6/26/2019 2:55:31 PM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 6/26/2019 2:55:37 PM EDT
[#14]
Meh, anyone center/right has some degree of small L libertarian in them.....I suspect you could put Rand Paul in that category.
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Posted: 6/26/2019 2:56:16 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Meh, you could make the same "utopian" argument for just about every political ideology. Systems that are set up to balance freedom and order begin with the presupposition that a perfect outcome cannot be achieved, and you just do the best you can, with the realization that perfection will never be the result. |
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Posted: 6/26/2019 2:56:22 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
I have spent several days streaming a Libertarian podcast. Full disclosure: I am a registered Libertarian. I have concluded that Libertarians are possessed of child-like mentalities, a complaint which they levy about Socialists. Libertarians are effectively clueless about the world, and will never be taken seriously by anyone seeking political direction. That is all . Mike |
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Posted: 6/26/2019 2:57:54 PM EDT
[#17]
You had better expectations from a bunch of potheads?
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Posted: 6/26/2019 2:58:04 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The answer is somewhere in the middle with qualified freedom and suffrage. |
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Posted: 6/26/2019 2:58:57 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Meh, anyone center/right has some degree of small L libertarian in them.....I suspect you could put Rand Paul in that category. |
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Posted: 6/26/2019 2:59:58 PM EDT
[#20]
What about those who don't identify as libertarians but are just small government? I am extremely small government but not necessarily an isolationist either. I want myself and my neighbors to be left the fuck alone by our government but I also believe we should have a strong military and a commander in chief that will absolutely destroy any other nation that stands in the way of our survival.
All drugs should be legal abortion left up to the states marriage left up to the church no income tax but a national sales tax on new items (everybody pays) that goes to very particular things/infrastructure no social security no public schools .gov stays the fuck out of private sector businesses No life sentences, only death penalties that must be carried out within 5 years of conviction with one chance to be heard again at 2.5 years No prison sentences over 10 years (if they deserve to be in prison for more than 10 years then they probably need to be executed) and yes, I should be able to own Nukes. That's just my short list. 
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Posted: 6/26/2019 3:02:13 PM EDT
[#21]
in before that one mod that has self-banned himself and the nutjob that is probably that same mod's troll account.
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Posted: 6/26/2019 3:02:47 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As soon as you realize most people would vote to control others if given the ability is the moment you realize libertarianism is for college students and homeschoolers. "My rights end where your rights start" sounds great until someone else realizes they can violate your rights with no consequence outside of government given the ability to enforce the rule of law. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Meh, anyone center/right has some degree of small L libertarian in them.....I suspect you could put Rand Paul in that category. |
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Posted: 6/26/2019 3:03:29 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What about those who don't identify as libertarians but are just small government? I am extremely small government but not necessarily an isolationist either. I want myself and my neighbors to be left the fuck alone by our government but I also believe we should have a strong military and a commander in chief that will absolutely destroy any other nation that stands in the way of our survival. All drugs should be legal abortion left up to the states marriage left up to the church no income tax but a national sales tax on new items (everybody pays) that goes to very particular things/infrastructure no social security no public schools .gov stays the fuck out of private sector businesses No life sentences, only death penalties that must be carried out within 5 years of conviction with one chance to be heard again at 2.5 years No prison sentences over 10 years (if they deserve to be in prison for more than 10 years then they probably need to be executed) and yes, I should be able to own Nukes. That's just my short list. |
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Posted: 6/26/2019 3:04:31 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
lolberts are the autistic children of "our side". |
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Posted: 6/26/2019 3:04:49 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What would an example of that be and what makes you think there would be no consequences if an individual attempted to violate my rights? |
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Posted: 6/26/2019 3:07:18 PM EDT
[#26]
The non-aggression principle is a death wish.
Hayek, Rothbard, et al. were able to gin up such silly notions because other guys bayoneted and bombed communists to create the safe space they lived in. |
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Posted: 6/26/2019 3:08:03 PM EDT
[#27]
Libertarianism is also a form of Utopia-ism.
The Free Market is not the end all, be all,... and I don't think society should treat it like a Suicide pact. If there was a rampant disease sweeping across America with a 99% death rate, and a Corporation discovered the cure and decided to charge $100 Million per dose for the vaccine.... should we be willing to allow 99% of the human population die, just because some Pharma-corp wants to take advantage of a shitty situation? Or would you say that the government would be justified to declare martial law, seize the vaccine for themselves, seize the factories and mass produce the vaccine in order to keep our country from dying? Or lets put it another way. If a Corporation decides to sell weapons to ISIS, should the government stop them? Why not "Muh Free Market" right? Also another thing you have to take into consideration, is that a lot of companies that cry about "Muh Free Market Principles!" are the same companies that turn around and demand certain regulations that protect their own limited monoplies. I have a friend who's father came up with the idea on his own, to put Cameras on RC planes and use them to take photos of for-sale properties for Realtors. This was long before Drones became ubiquitous. State Legislators decided to pass a law banning the practice, because it hurt the Helicopter photography business... I guess on the basis that "RC planes Unsafe hur dur!" The only reason that law was passed, was because some asshole rich sons of bitches paid some PROSTITUTE-POLITICIAN to pass a law protecting their business. Fucking bullshit. Politicians who accept bribes to pass laws should be Tarred and Feathered. Crony Capitalism is real. Honestly, while many libertarians will readily admit the problem of Cronyism... few actually provide any *REALISTIC* solutions to the problem. |
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Posted: 6/26/2019 3:08:35 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What would an example of that be and what makes you think there would be no consequences if an individual attempted to violate my rights? I build a bridge over the stream that enables me to get farm equipment from one side to the other. This lowers my operating costs to the degree I can still stay in business. The construction of the bridge renders the stream non navigable. How do you resolve this situation? |
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Posted: 6/26/2019 3:09:44 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The non-aggression principle is a death wish. Hayek, Rothbard, et al. were able to gin up such silly notions because other guys bayoneted and bombed communists to create the safe space they lived in. Well... you need to look into Hobbesian Libertarianism then. 
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Posted: 6/26/2019 3:10:38 PM EDT
[#30]
I simply see libertarianism as a check to all other ideologies that inevitably swing towards tyranny given the slightest opportunity.
I have to have extreme tenets of belief in small government is OK but no government is better, since every other political persuasion in the country has the ultimate goal of pinning me under either the right or left thumb. Even while I realize it's an impossible goal to achieve. |
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Posted: 6/26/2019 3:12:34 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As soon as you realize most people would vote to control others if given the ability is the moment you realize libertarianism is for college students and homeschoolers. "My rights end where your rights start" sounds great until someone else realizes they can violate your rights with no consequence outside of government given the ability to enforce the rule of law. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Meh, anyone center/right has some degree of small L libertarian in them.....I suspect you could put Rand Paul in that category. I could sure do with a lot less .gov in my life, on every level.....I guess that is why I'm a Independent because I know the Uniparty will fall all over each other to create new and more oppressive laws and then the non-elected regulators will add insult to injury......A pox on all their houses. |
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Posted: 6/26/2019 3:16:38 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The non-aggression principle is a death wish. Hayek, Rothbard, et al. were able to gin up such silly notions because other guys bayoneted and bombed communists to create the safe space they lived in. |
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Posted: 6/26/2019 3:18:55 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I simply see libertarianism as a check to all other ideologies that inevitably swing towards tyranny given the slightest opportunity. I have to have extreme tenets of belief in small government is OK but no government is better, since every other political persuasion in the country has the ultimate goal of pinning me under either the right or left thumb. Even while I realize it's an impossible goal to achieve.
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Posted: 6/26/2019 3:19:24 PM EDT
[#34]
I am seriously considering switching my party affiliation. However, I am not confident my views would fit with any of the commonly recognized parties.
Maybe I'm a Republican? GOD KNOWS I'm not, and would never be, a Democrat. |
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Posted: 6/26/2019 3:19:52 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What does that have to do with small L libertarians? You are talking full blown ones there. I could sure do with a lot less .gov in my life, on every level.....I guess that is why I'm a Independent because I know the Uniparty will fall all over each other to create new and more oppressive laws and then the non-elected regulators will add insult to injury......A pox on all their houses. |
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Posted: 6/26/2019 3:20:31 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Freedom and liberty are only valid concepts among educated Western civilizations. Sorry. Not sorry. |
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Posted: 6/26/2019 3:20:34 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can replace "libertarians" with just about any noun and you'd be accurate 100% of the time. Most people have the mental and emotional capacity of a 12 year old and are ignorant of the world outside of their basement. Hell, just look around GD. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have spent several days streaming a Libertarian podcast. Full disclosure: I am a registered Libertarian. I have concluded that Libertarians are possessed of child-like mentalities, a complaint which they levy about Socialists. Libertarians are effectively clueless about the world, and will never be taken seriously by anyone seeking political direction. That is all . You can replace "libertarians" with just about any noun and you'd be accurate 100% of the time. Most people have the mental and emotional capacity of a 12 year old and are ignorant of the world outside of their basement. Hell, just look around GD. |
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Posted: 6/26/2019 3:20:47 PM EDT
[#38]
I say this as someone who routinely flops between L and R in both my votes and affiliation... Libertarians should educate the common populace and lobby with Republicans to move the needle away from authoritarianism and towards individual liberty. They will never ever succeed as a party because there's a king-of-the-hill purity test mentality where all others are ostracized
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Posted: 6/26/2019 3:21:43 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I own a property through which passes a navigable stream. You use the stream for transportation. I build a bridge over the stream that enables me to get farm equipment from one side to the other. This lowers my operating costs to the degree I can still stay in business. The construction of the bridge renders the stream non navigable. How do you resolve this situation? 
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Posted: 6/26/2019 3:21:55 PM EDT
[#40]
Speaking of Libertarians, what happened to radio talkshow host Gene Burns?
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Posted: 6/26/2019 3:22:59 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or, we could:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I simply see libertarianism as a check to all other ideologies that inevitably swing towards tyranny given the slightest opportunity. I have to have extreme tenets of belief in small government is OK but no government is better, since every other political persuasion in the country has the ultimate goal of pinning me under either the right or left thumb. Even while I realize it's an impossible goal to achieve.
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Posted: 6/26/2019 3:23:05 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am seriously considering switching my party affiliation. However, I am not confident my views would fit with any of the commonly recognized parties. Maybe I'm a Republican? GOD KNOWS I'm not, and would never be, a Democrat. I was registered independent, because as a fed employee, I wouldn't have put it past them to look up voter affiliation and concoct reasons to fire anyone not registered D. After retirement, I changed to R, not because I am one, but because I want to vote in primaries. |
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Posted: 6/26/2019 3:23:07 PM EDT
[#43]
Pure left = Communism
Pure right = Authoritarian Theocracy Pure libertarian = Anarchy There are a million shades of grey in between all of them |
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Posted: 6/26/2019 3:23:23 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Vigilante justice is the only true justice as all other justice requires mandatory contribution to the collective. |
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Posted: 6/26/2019 3:23:51 PM EDT
[#45]
Naive idealists mostly concerned about legal pot and gay marriage.
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Posted: 6/26/2019 3:24:24 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Great example. Even what you consider to be a small limited government still requires armed men to enforce tax law at the end of a gun to survive. The libertarian absolute freedom nonsense is a sham. I can be friends with anarchists because they are at least honest with themselves and others about what they want. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What about those who don't identify as libertarians but are just small government? I am extremely small government but not necessarily an isolationist either. I want myself and my neighbors to be left the fuck alone by our government but I also believe we should have a strong military and a commander in chief that will absolutely destroy any other nation that stands in the way of our survival. All drugs should be legal abortion left up to the states marriage left up to the church no income tax but a national sales tax on new items (everybody pays) that goes to very particular things/infrastructure no social security no public schools .gov stays the fuck out of private sector businesses No life sentences, only death penalties that must be carried out within 5 years of conviction with one chance to be heard again at 2.5 years No prison sentences over 10 years (if they deserve to be in prison for more than 10 years then they probably need to be executed) and yes, I should be able to own Nukes. That's just my short list. Anybody that thinks a 1st world nation would survive against other nations without a tax payer backed national defense is a fucking retard. Their definition of absolute freedom is flawed. Absolute freedom only comes if you can protect and secure it and on the world scale it takes a well funded .gov entity to be able to protect it, and also a well armed populace to protect from the .gov.
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Posted: 6/26/2019 3:26:43 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Vigilante justice is the only true justice as all other justice requires mandatory contribution to the collective. I'm all about hanging horse thieves, but I'm not down with settling scores by calling neighbors horse thieves. The Justice of the Peace or Sheriff has to have integrity. As do the citizens called upon to be deputized for the posse. |
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Posted: 6/26/2019 3:27:25 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Armed men would not be needed at the end buyer level. You either buy the shit with the tax attached or you don't buy it. As far as the businesses making sure they pay the tax to the .gov, yes you would need a .gov entity to enforce and have checks and balances on it. So I agree that they are a necessity but in a very, very , small capacity as compared to today. Anybody that thinks a 1st world nation would survive against other nations without a tax payer backed national defense is a fucking retard. Their definition of absolute freedom is flawed. Absolute freedom only comes if you can protect and secure it and on the world scale it takes a well funded .gov entity to be able to protect it, and also a well armed populace to protect from the .gov. |
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Posted: 6/26/2019 3:28:25 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Absent a delegated authority to enforce the law if someone shot you from 600 yards out and took your stuff there is no penalty or consequence for doing so. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: What would an example of that be and what makes you think there would be no consequences if an individual attempted to violate my rights? I'm playing devils advocate on this one because I think there is a place for civilian law enforcement. You can have that and still be small government. Small government doesn't mean no government. |
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Posted: 6/26/2019 3:28:50 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's only true when they get it right. I'm all about hanging horse thieves, but I'm not down with settling scores by calling neighbors horse thieves. The Justice of the Peace or Sheriff has to have integrity. As do the citizens called upon to be deputized for the posse. |
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