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Posted: 7/4/2021 8:31:34 PM EDT
[#1]
Cool, Enjoy being cast into a fire for eternity
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Posted: 7/4/2021 8:32:48 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tithing was put in place to help the poor and possibly build meetinghouses. It was never put in place to support a paid ministry. Nowhere in the Bible does it say we need preachers or pastors to start churches and be paid. The Twelve Apostles were called to preach Christ and keep his doctrine pure, because they had the authority to receive revelation. They were not paid. They went around to the various branches and wrote letters to correct incorrect practices and beliefs. No church on earth, especially some podunk corner church, can lay claim to this power or authority, as evidenced by the millions of churches that teach different things. This was not Christ's intention, and it will be corrected when He returns. Snip Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I know what you are saying and agree to a point. God invented the tithing system to support the Levites (modern day pastors) who took care of the church side of things and the people in need. In modern times that has been perverted in some instances. Tithing was put in place to help the poor and possibly build meetinghouses. It was never put in place to support a paid ministry. Nowhere in the Bible does it say we need preachers or pastors to start churches and be paid. The Twelve Apostles were called to preach Christ and keep his doctrine pure, because they had the authority to receive revelation. They were not paid. They went around to the various branches and wrote letters to correct incorrect practices and beliefs. No church on earth, especially some podunk corner church, can lay claim to this power or authority, as evidenced by the millions of churches that teach different things. This was not Christ's intention, and it will be corrected when He returns. Snip I dunno, Paul seems pretty emphatic that he *did* have the right as an apostle to expect financial support from believers, which made it a significant point that he refused to avail himself of that right. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 8:38:36 PM EDT
[#3]
Well basically the bible says that God regretted creating Eve / Women in general and so now you know who to blame.
You're not the first man to wonder about these things OP. See this image to answer all your questions.  |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 8:41:57 PM EDT
[#4]
The church today is, for the most part, just a country club for rich people and their guests for the most part. The choir at the church we went to threatened to walk out if kids kept singing because they weren’t back up to children who just happen to be the only chance the church has of survival in the future. Why would they say that? Because in their minds the church was theirs and the kids were guests. Kids were not going to rob them of their praise, in their house.
The worst place to learn about the Bible is the modern day church because the owners want the preacher to give 15 minutes of “you’re awesome” sandwiched between 45 minutes of “we’re awesome” with 5 minutes of “show us the money”. One must research on their own and honestly, the farther a person can stay from most churches, the better off that person will be. Those jerks will drive you away with their self righteous bull shit and pay to play politics. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 8:42:47 PM EDT
[#5]
Haven’t read the thread. You can leave Him, but He won’t leave you.
And that’s all I’m going to say. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 8:43:05 PM EDT
[#6]
Listen to Jordan Peterson Bible series.
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Posted: 7/4/2021 8:45:49 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Haven’t read the thread. You can leave Him, but He won’t leave you. And that’s all I’m going to say.  Attached File |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 8:47:03 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's okay. You can leave the church but Jesus will not leave you. He'll be there waiting, when you are ready. Truth. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 8:47:20 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I dunno, Paul seems pretty emphatic that he *did* have the right as an apostle to expect financial support from believers, which made it a significant point that he refused to avail himself of that right. Nowhere in there does it say anything about money or financial support, or a monthly stipend to cover his expenses. Possibly having a right to something but not exercising it means they were true servants, unlike what we see today. Modern day pastors and priests are not Apostles. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 8:50:56 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So "this is my experience with atheists and it's universally bad" (in reply to a slander) doesn't mean "this is my experience and it's bad" it means ... "I want to have a fight just to have a fight" ...? If you don't have anything you have an honest desire to interact about, than we don't have anything to talk about. Just like everything else in life between people, unless you like wasting time and flailing. If you have something to discuss, post it ...? If not can we stop it with the catwalk level posing? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Than why is it every time I ask so-called serious atheists to produce the goods and honestly discuss it the best I can ever get are childish throw-mud-at the fan replies with "here's a link to a site with ten bajillion contradictions, lolz you benighted retard, haz fun" and they can't even be bothered to pick one - not even when practically begged to pick the one they think is hardest - and discuss it? My personal experience with atheists is almost universal rank cowardice about things they say are easy and obvious to discern combined with "drink this bottle of antifreeze and drop dead you vile scumbag" level hatred. 40+ years and I've met ... one ... honest atheist who wasn't a jerk and who would interact. I`m your huckleberry... And? Is there something you're genuinely interested in or do you just want to pick a fight so you can have a fight? You`re the one looking for a fight. I`ll step up, just remember, every bully meets a ringer one day. Or we can have a rational discussion according to the rules of argumentation theory and informal logic. So "this is my experience with atheists and it's universally bad" (in reply to a slander) doesn't mean "this is my experience and it's bad" it means ... "I want to have a fight just to have a fight" ...? If you don't have anything you have an honest desire to interact about, than we don't have anything to talk about. Just like everything else in life between people, unless you like wasting time and flailing. If you have something to discuss, post it ...? If not can we stop it with the catwalk level posing? You`re the one who is putting forth the premise of the veracity of the Bible and whining that no Atheist will have an honest debate about it, well here I am. Reason dictates that the burden of proof is on you, so present your evidence and state your case. Asking me to argue the negative is a logical fallacy, that`s not how it works. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 8:51:48 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nowhere in there does it say anything about money or financial support, or a monthly stipend to cover his expenses. Possibly having a right to something but not exercising it means they were true servants, unlike what we see today. Modern day pastors and priests are not Apostles. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I dunno, Paul seems pretty emphatic that he *did* have the right as an apostle to expect financial support from believers, which made it a significant point that he refused to avail himself of that right. Nowhere in there does it say anything about money or financial support, or a monthly stipend to cover his expenses. Possibly having a right to something but not exercising it means they were true servants, unlike what we see today. Modern day pastors and priests are not Apostles. So what is Paul talking about here then? 3 My defense to those who examine me is this: 4 Do we have no [b]right to eat and drink? 5 Do we have no right to take along [c]a believing wife, as do also the other apostles, the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas? 6 Or is it only Barnabas and I who have no right to refrain from working? 7 Who ever goes to war at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat of its fruit? Or who tends a flock and does not drink of the milk of the flock? 8 Do I say these things as a mere man? Or does not the law say the same also? 9 For it is written in the law of Moses, "You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain." Is it oxen God is concerned about? 10 Or does He say it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written, that he who plows should plow in hope, and he who threshes in hope should be partaker of his hope. 11 If we have sown spiritual things for you, is it a great thing if we reap your material things? 12 If others are partakers of this right over you, are we not even more? Nevertheless we have not used this right, but endure all things lest we hinder the gospel of Christ. 13 Do you not know that those who minister the holy things eat of the things of the temple, and those who serve at the altar partake of the offerings of the altar? 14 Even so the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should live from the gospel. ETA was it only the first century apostles who had these rights? |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 8:52:34 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nowhere in there does it say anything about money or financial support, or a monthly stipend to cover his expenses. Possibly having a right to something but not exercising it means they were true servants, unlike what we see today. Modern day pastors and priests are not Apostles. Regarding the tithing the old testament does say that offerings have to be made to god, and they must be made in the temples. What you have to realize about these religions is that they originated from the Abrahamic people who were of Jewish ancestry The bible was later revised by saul to be more inclusive and allow a pathway for the gentiles / non jewish to convert so they could raise the numbers. That is also why it's pretty sexist in the old testament and women are treated as property, and to be stoned to death if they're caught sleeping around, all of this stuff. The same reason that god said he regretted making Eve. and the reason why Eve was the original sinner in the old testament.  And here is another spin on the Epicurean paradox. A more simplified version of it.  A lot of men throughout history have studied the bible and ultimately wondered what truth lay within. The philosophers came to these conclusions. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 8:54:41 PM EDT
[#13]
@Macchina
I walked away after a lifetime of trying to fit in. I was 47. GD isn't a good place to rattle the cages so to speak; if you need to communicate with someone who has BTDT, shoot me an IM. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 9:03:27 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If that is your take, I think you need to do more reading / praying. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 9:03:40 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well basically the bible says that God regretted creating Eve / Women in general and so now you know who to blame. You're not the first man to wonder about these things OP. See this image to answer all your questions. https://i.imgur.com/KLFjjh4.jpg |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 9:04:50 PM EDT
[#16]
Suggest you find a good pastor, like David Lankford. All of this stuff is online.
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Posted: 7/4/2021 9:08:46 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The scientific method is an algorithm that performs better than any religious belief system ever has, as it incorporates both formal and informal logic. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Belief is a flawed concept, a heuristic assessment for the sake of convenience. What you don`t seem to understand is that Atheist don`t have beliefs, we calculate the probability of a premise with the understanding that there may not be enough information to arrive at a definitive answer, whereas religion gives 100% credence to something that may only have a 50% probability. "close enough for me!" Great, if you're the atheist here, give me you logical model for atheism then, and what parts are unknown vs. known, and what you're replacing it with I asked questions above of an atheist, feel free to give us the code that runs better and replaces belief and does a better job to boot. The scientific method is an algorithm that performs better than any religious belief system ever has, as it incorporates both formal and informal logic. Uh ... the scientific method is completely unable to reveal any truths. It's literally "after this, because of this" and nothing in the process even makes a start at fixing that problem. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 9:11:32 PM EDT
[#18]
If I gave up the faith I would be free to take revenge on people, kill some MFs and many other things. Perhaps breaking all the commandments would become a bucket list.
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Posted: 7/4/2021 9:14:13 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: These are fingernail marks inside the gas chamber at Auschwitz. They were made my people who were praying as hard as they could to the same god you pray to. Do you think they needed to do more? Were they doing it wrong? If we could bring them back to life in a magic time machine, what do you think they would tell us about the power of prayer? https://i.imgur.com/MD4LAQ1.jpg There is a purely logical explanation for why your loving god allowed this horror, please wait while someone rationalizes it to himself so he can explain it to you. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 9:14:45 PM EDT
[#20]
When I was a young man like you, I had similar doubts and was as far removed from God as I could have been.
Never say never. 
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Posted: 7/4/2021 9:17:11 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your skydaddy, if he existed, did this shitty thing, made this person's life suck, and made this injustice. There is strict liability for skydaddy and no possibility at ALL of constrained powers, otherwise he's not skydaddy. Don't give me mumbojumo about "prince of this world" and all that, that's bullshit. If my life didn't turn out exactly how I wanted it, or if a bad thing happened, skydaddy is to blame and that makes skydaddy either evil so I won't worship him or nonexistent. And why pray to an evil god. Checkmate christcucks. Skydaddy is a lie. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/481590/ifgodrealwhygoodthinghappen_jpeg-2001876.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/481590/HistoricChurchDoctrine_jpeg-2001877.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/481590/StAugustineWhyBadThingsHappen_jpeg-2001878.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I have always wondered why Atheists think they are so smart. Atheists have never built incredible societies. The only nations on earth that are prosperous are Western Christian nations, atheists had their chance and they sucked at it. This is proof of the blessing of God. The most money for a average "atheist" society for median household income is 10 grand, that is the best in human history and that is the current godless state of China. When the Soviets were godless, they also sucked. But in the West, where Christianity dominates, there is prosperity. This is evidence of God's blessing on his people. The only state that is remotely prosperous that is atheist, is the godless state of Japan, which was starving to death prior to a Christian nation bailing them out. We (a Christian nation) gave them food, technology, and economic reform. We gave them their prosperity. Atheists can only prosper in Christian nations, look how they fair in Muslim nations, they produce nothing. This is more evidence of God's favor and evidence of which religion is correct. Look and see what people are the most blessed. The nations with the most scientific breakthrough are Christian nations, not hindu, muslim, or atheist states. This is an issue that our intelligent Atheists struggle with. Atheism is a failed concept, if everything was created via random chance, then there would be more equality amongst different religions as far as economic output. The entire Western society was based on the Bible, whether you like it or not. That is the secret to greater liberty, freedoms, and wealth. Today our super smart atheist friends push on us fluid genders, remember gender was created by random chance, therefore it can be assigned wrongly. The folks who love science can't tell the difference between boys and girls, they say trust the science, but they are the ones who lack in reason. Don't buy into the hype that atheists are as smart as they think. Logic and reason would say otherwise. Your skydaddy, if he existed, did this shitty thing, made this person's life suck, and made this injustice. There is strict liability for skydaddy and no possibility at ALL of constrained powers, otherwise he's not skydaddy. Don't give me mumbojumo about "prince of this world" and all that, that's bullshit. If my life didn't turn out exactly how I wanted it, or if a bad thing happened, skydaddy is to blame and that makes skydaddy either evil so I won't worship him or nonexistent. And why pray to an evil god. Checkmate christcucks. Skydaddy is a lie. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/481590/ifgodrealwhygoodthinghappen_jpeg-2001876.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/481590/HistoricChurchDoctrine_jpeg-2001877.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/481590/StAugustineWhyBadThingsHappen_jpeg-2001878.JPG you make stupid look so hard bro |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 9:18:17 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well basically the bible says that God regretted creating Eve / Women in general and so now you know who to blame. You're not the first man to wonder about these things OP. See this image to answer all your questions. https://i.imgur.com/KLFjjh4.jpg Image selectively ignores things inconvenient to its arguments. It just flat out assumes the only reason to not prevent all evils is because you're evil. It ignores that evil exists so that justice can be exemplified and so that mercy can be too. Regarding the way it handles satan: he will be destroyed. For eternity, which is what he deserves. That clever retard will only serve as an example of justice having only been able to do what God planned. "Than why didn't he" - so that the greatest good could be served, so that people who didn't deserve anything but justice could be examples of mercy and people who rejected that mercy could be an example of justice (justice = get what you deserve for what you did, not more, not less). Not because of libertarian (uncaused and uncausable) 'free will' (which doesn't and can't exist) nor "to test us." |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 9:18:28 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What would be your reason for being good and moral if there was no higher power to answer to? And who would say what is good or evil? What makes you the judge of anyone or anything if there is no God????? You would have to ask the people who built civilization before the advent of Judaism and Christianity. They made it. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 9:18:39 PM EDT
[#24]
In the end we should all just believe what we believe but, I always find the most “religious” of the different groups are the most vicious if you don’t believe their way. This thread is evidence of that observation.
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Posted: 7/4/2021 9:18:52 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: you make stupid look so hard bro Would your opinion be different if I included a /sarc tag on that comment? I thought the attached memes made my position obvious... |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 9:19:05 PM EDT
[#26]
you can either believe in logic or religion. it's really that simple.
can god do anything? if he can, he can create a rock so big he himself can not move it. if theres a rock he can't move, then he can't do anything. if he can't make a rock he can't move, then he can't do anything. thats as distilled as i've ever heard. im sure a dozen |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 9:25:14 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm Pagan, most specifically, Asatru. I follow the teachings my grandmother handed down to me as a young adult and I've spent a lot of years learning more. It's a faith that doesn't dictate what I "shall not" do, but rather, encourages the respect for all and tells what I should do. It also carries a healthy respect for protecting my own and living a fearless life. You should fear God. Its the beginning of knowledge and wisdom. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 9:25:24 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: you can either believe in logic or religion. it's really that simple. can god do anything? if he can, he can create a rock so big he himself can not move it. if theres a rock he can't move, then he can't do anything. if he can't make a rock he can't move, then he can't do anything. thats as distilled as i've ever heard. im sure a dozen There's also humility that goes "lol, who the fuck knows, there's things we know today like Higg's Boson that would make people 1000 years ago say put down the crack; maybe we don't know everything and starting from the position everything should be knowable at one time with imperfect brains, people, and techniques is 'tarded." |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 9:25:58 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cool, Enjoy being cast into a fire for eternity AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 9:26:56 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cool, Enjoy being cast into a fire for eternity Gods love is very different from that of a square. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 9:27:24 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You`re the one who is putting forth the premise of the veracity of the Bible and whining that no Atheist will have an honest debate about it, well here I am. Reason dictates that the burden of proof is on you, so present your evidence and state your case. Asking me to argue the negative is a logical fallacy, that`s not how it works. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Than why is it every time I ask so-called serious atheists to produce the goods and honestly discuss it the best I can ever get are childish throw-mud-at the fan replies with "here's a link to a site with ten bajillion contradictions, lolz you benighted retard, haz fun" and they can't even be bothered to pick one - not even when practically begged to pick the one they think is hardest - and discuss it? My personal experience with atheists is almost universal rank cowardice about things they say are easy and obvious to discern combined with "drink this bottle of antifreeze and drop dead you vile scumbag" level hatred. 40+ years and I've met ... one ... honest atheist who wasn't a jerk and who would interact. I`m your huckleberry... And? Is there something you're genuinely interested in or do you just want to pick a fight so you can have a fight? You`re the one looking for a fight. I`ll step up, just remember, every bully meets a ringer one day. Or we can have a rational discussion according to the rules of argumentation theory and informal logic. So "this is my experience with atheists and it's universally bad" (in reply to a slander) doesn't mean "this is my experience and it's bad" it means ... "I want to have a fight just to have a fight" ...? If you don't have anything you have an honest desire to interact about, than we don't have anything to talk about. Just like everything else in life between people, unless you like wasting time and flailing. If you have something to discuss, post it ...? If not can we stop it with the catwalk level posing? You`re the one who is putting forth the premise of the veracity of the Bible and whining that no Atheist will have an honest debate about it, well here I am. Reason dictates that the burden of proof is on you, so present your evidence and state your case. Asking me to argue the negative is a logical fallacy, that`s not how it works. Are you capable of interacting without intentionally being insulting for no reason? If you're an atheist, you're just acting like the atheists I talked about earlier. As for your words that you put in my mouth ... "no atheist will have an honest debate about it" - that's not what I said meant. You're acting like a CNN reporter - you're not talking to me, you're interacting with a stereotype in your head. I didn't ask you or anyone else to argue anything. Do you understand the difference between "this has been my experience" and words that have the meaning "you should prove this" ...? How about sticking with what the words that I typed and what they mean instead of a boatload of assumptions? If, for whatever reason, you're upset that someone said their experience with atheists sucked, than talk about that, instead of flailing and starting act ... just like the atheists I've encountered in the past. Your behavior says you don't want to do anything other than bash me for not being an atheist. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 9:29:16 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gods love is very different from that of a square. What kind of 'hand would it take to keep Mila Kittens Love on her best behavior and faithful? Maybe the lake of fire was necessary all along. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 9:30:06 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cool, Enjoy being cast into a fire for eternity OOOGGGAAA BOOOGGAA! |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 9:30:35 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But why? Wouldn't the ultimate thing being able to overcome your "programs' by genes and make truly free will choices to overcome those instincts? Of all the animals only Humans have this ability If you're just following instincts you're no better than a dog or ant; whereas if you hate murder and are disgusted by torture, but can make yourself do those things, isn't that truly liberating yourself and using your conscious brain to overcome and become a higher being than a gnat? These are the questions of morality we all must wrestle with, rather than rely on the opinion of some prophet and his magic book. And for those who are born without empathy, why should they hold back their hand from atrocities? They don`t, before we understood psychopathy we called it evil and thought that it was the work of demons and spirits loose in the world when in reality it was all in the minds of men just as we cling to the idea of god being external. They don't even have the genes to tell them no, so why in the world should they not figure out how to commit atrocities without being caught? Especially if offered advancement in the world by Epstein like figures? I mean, it's survival of the fittest, and you happen to have a leg up because you're connected to blackmail compromise networks, you're just following the market forces and actually superior to superstitious people with their slavish adherence to outdated genetic code that makes them less fit for the current prevailing market conditions. The emotion of belief, like empathy, is also hardwired instinct. Not everyone is born with the "true believer" gene, I was born an Atheist, it was never a conscious decision. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 9:30:56 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gotta love it when people repost tired old memes of a refuted logical fallacy. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 9:31:29 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh yeah? Specifically which logical fallacy? |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 9:31:58 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Uh ... the scientific method is completely unable to reveal any truths. It's literally "after this, because of this" and nothing in the process even makes a start at fixing that problem. Ask me how I know that you don't know anything about the scientific method. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 9:32:50 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: False dichotomy. Yeah. No. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 9:35:12 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: These are the questions of morality we all must wrestle with, rather than rely on the opinion of some prophet and his magic book Quote HistoryQuoted: These are the questions of morality we all must wrestle with, rather than rely on the opinion of some prophet and his magic book Doesn't seem much like wrestling to me, the Luciferians/Crowleyites/Thelema/Epstein blackmailers are the ones who see the truth if there's no god and they're living the high life you'd expect of it. Quoted:They don`t, before we understood psychopathy we called it evil and thought that it was the work of demons and spirits loose in the world when in reality it was all in the minds of men just as we cling to the idea of god being external. Quoted: The emotion of belief, like empathy, is also hardwired instinct. Not everyone is born with the "true believer" gene, I was born an Atheist, it was never a conscious decision. Right, and those who don't believe in even the smallest way, and aren't pursuing making themselves gods among men... I don't want to sound to judgemental, nor too harsh, but it sounds like anyone who believes this and isn't pursuing godlike powers is just being a coward. What am I missing? |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 9:38:24 PM EDT
[#40]
You do you brother. Whatever trips your trigger. Just don’t become one of those insufferable condescending atheists who have to tell everyone they are smarter because they have no faith. By the way you’re not off to a good start with this thread, just saying’.
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Posted: 7/4/2021 9:39:59 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Regarding the tithing the old testament does say that offerings have to be made to god, and they must be made in the temples. What you have to realize about these religions is that they originated from the Abrahamic people who were of Jewish ancestry The bible was later revised by saul to be more inclusive and allow a pathway for the gentiles / non jewish to convert so they could raise the numbers. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Nowhere in there does it say anything about money or financial support, or a monthly stipend to cover his expenses. Possibly having a right to something but not exercising it means they were true servants, unlike what we see today. Modern day pastors and priests are not Apostles. Regarding the tithing the old testament does say that offerings have to be made to god, and they must be made in the temples. What you have to realize about these religions is that they originated from the Abrahamic people who were of Jewish ancestry The bible was later revised by saul to be more inclusive and allow a pathway for the gentiles / non jewish to convert so they could raise the numbers. Got a source for this claim about saul/revision or just a bald claim people have to assume is true without examining it? That is also why it's pretty sexist in the old testament and women are treated as property, and to be stoned to death if they're caught sleeping around, all of this stuff. The same reason that god said he regretted making Eve. and the reason why Eve was the original sinner in the old testament. Ok. Where are women treated as property? Where does it say God regretted making *eve?* What book, what chapter, what verses teach this? Can you even point to a source for this at all? As for eve being the original sinner - we don't know who had the original sin. What is taught is that sin entered the world because of ADAM, not eve. (Romans 5:12) Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— The man who sin came through was *adam.* (I Corinthians 15:20-22) [20] But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. [21] For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. [22] For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. https://i.imgur.com/Z19afAd.png "Oh look, the priests got food. Well that can ONLY mean it HAD to be a SCAM!" ... why? Uh ... reasons.  And here is another spin on the Epicurean paradox. A more simplified version of it. https://i.imgur.com/0WpJ7Tq.jpg The conclusion - the therefore - is not required by what came before it. That's known as being false. Irrational. You *have* to add unstated and assumed extra premises to get there. For instance, you *have* to do something like add the assumed idea of "if you desire to end evil you have to end it instantly." A lot of men throughout history have studied the bible and ultimately wondered what truth lay within. The philosophers came to these conclusions. Philosophers also came up with marxism and the idea of the noble savage and critical race theory. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 9:42:35 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: This has been coming for about 10 years, it started the first time I read through the bible in whole myself. I was raised in the church since year 0 and believed (or so I thought) in the bible in it's entirely. I was taught that every word of the Bible is truth, that there is not even one error, but in being taught growing up, we were all taught single verses or chapters and how those words might apply to our life today. The bible as a whole is a tough thing to teach... In reading though the bible myself for the first time I saw a God that was supposed to unchanging, change in the extreme over the course of the Bible. He talks about both not tempting people and then tempts people. About not killing innocent people and then punishing his people for not killing innocent people. He makes a promise, then changes it. He sets up rules that are to stand forever with no room for that ever changing, then Jesus changes all that. There are over a hundred contradictions in the bible you never hear about in church because you have to admit there's a lot wrong with it. Even the first 2 chapters (Genesis 1 and 2) tell of completely different orders of creation. A huge contradiction on the first page. The arguments for why this is are extremely thin. One of the biggest things that stood out to me is the promise of heaven with Jesus' message. In the old testament there is Sheol, which is pretty much a place of darkness. A Medium even brings Samuel back from the dead and he talks about this. Then in Daniel, he writes about Eternal Life to get Jews to Martyr themselves after he told them not to fight and realized they needed some encouragement to fight. This concept was huge issue for me. It was about 100 years before Jesus that the idea of Heaven and Hell became really popular with Jews, this is the hot topic and the middle east is struggling with the idea of Heaven and looking for answers. Looking back on my life in the church, I am shocked at how often I was guilted into not questioning the bible. If you quotation things, you need more faith (not answers). The bible is very clear that all good things come from God and bad things do not (except for when they do). How is it that a God that is all powerful creates the Earth, then over the course of the Bible is not able to defeat some enemies, Satan is given more or less free reign of the Earth, allows so much evil in the world. He talks so freely with Adam and Eve, then more crypticly as time goes on (only in secret most of the time, appearing as things like bushes and visions) then goes silent for 2000 years!!!??? I spent decades talking to God and believing 100% in the teachings of Jesus, but never once heard him. I cried at night as a kid terrified I wouldn't do something right and end up in Hell. I grew up in a "good" church, but looking back it was guilt and fear that made me believe. I don't want my kids to have that guilt. It hard but my wife (who separately came to the exact same conclusions) and I are completely out. Dark night of the Soul….. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 9:44:25 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ask me how I know that you don't know anything about the scientific method. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Uh ... the scientific method is completely unable to reveal any truths. It's literally "after this, because of this" and nothing in the process even makes a start at fixing that problem. Ask me how I know that you don't know anything about the scientific method. You're assuming I don't because I said something so heretical that it might make you pass out. Can't touch them taboos, now can we.   ETA: if it's not obvious enough, that was humor.I wasn't joking about the scientific process being unable to make anything knowable, though. There's nothing in the process that even makes a start at fixing the basic problem of "after this, because of this." You can account for as many variables as you like, but that won't matter one tiny bit because until you've gotten them *all* you can't know what the unaccounted for variables will do to your conclusions/ideas. That's not even starting in on the utterly massive problems with empiricism - the idea that you can get knowledge from your perceptions. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 9:48:41 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: This has been coming for about 10 years, it started the first time I read through the bible in whole myself. I was raised in the church since year 0 and believed (or so I thought) in the bible in it's entirely. I was taught that every word of the Bible is truth, that there is not even one error, but in being taught growing up, we were all taught single verses or chapters and how those words might apply to our life today. The bible as a whole is a tough thing to teach... In reading though the bible myself for the first time I saw a God that was supposed to unchanging, change in the extreme over the course of the Bible. He talks about both not tempting people and then tempts people. About not killing innocent people and then punishing his people for not killing innocent people. He makes a promise, then changes it. He sets up rules that are to stand forever with no room for that ever changing, then Jesus changes all that. There are over a hundred contradictions in the bible you never hear about in church because you have to admit there's a lot wrong with it. Even the first 2 chapters (Genesis 1 and 2) tell of completely different orders of creation. A huge contradiction on the first page. The arguments for why this is are extremely thin. One of the biggest things that stood out to me is the promise of heaven with Jesus' message. In the old testament there is Sheol, which is pretty much a place of darkness. A Medium even brings Samuel back from the dead and he talks about this. Then in Daniel, he writes about Eternal Life to get Jews to Martyr themselves after he told them not to fight and realized they needed some encouragement to fight. This concept was huge issue for me. It was about 100 years before Jesus that the idea of Heaven and Hell became really popular with Jews, this is the hot topic and the middle east is struggling with the idea of Heaven and looking for answers. Looking back on my life in the church, I am shocked at how often I was guilted into not questioning the bible. If you quotation things, you need more faith (not answers). The bible is very clear that all good things come from God and bad things do not (except for when they do). How is it that a God that is all powerful creates the Earth, then over the course of the Bible is not able to defeat some enemies, Satan is given more or less free reign of the Earth, allows so much evil in the world. He talks so freely with Adam and Eve, then more crypticly as time goes on (only in secret most of the time, appearing as things like bushes and visions) then goes silent for 2000 years!!!??? I spent decades talking to God and believing 100% in the teachings of Jesus, but never once heard him. I cried at night as a kid terrified I wouldn't do something right and end up in Hell. I grew up in a "good" church, but looking back it was guilt and fear that made me believe. I don't want my kids to have that guilt. It hard but my wife (who separately came to the exact same conclusions) and I are completely out. Name one change and one contradiction please. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 9:49:44 PM EDT
[#45]
Good for you.
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Posted: 7/4/2021 9:53:33 PM EDT
[#46]
It looks as if you were raised in a type of fundamentalist Christian faith. With regards to the bible, while divinely inspired, some of it is historical, some prophetic and some doctrinal.
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Posted: 7/4/2021 9:54:35 PM EDT
[#47]
 @Rodent I agree with you that the "god didn't save the people" . but those scratches are recent. The Auschwitz museum themselves confirmed it fairly recently while there was years of speculation prior. 
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Posted: 7/4/2021 9:56:09 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Haven’t read the thread. You can leave Him, but He won’t leave you. And that’s all I’m going to say. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/481590/jesuschristhaslefthechat_jpeg-2002000.JPG Meh. I’d tell my story where I just about lost my faith, but it’s not in this thread. He’s tested my faith many times. I almost left Him. But He delivers. All He asks is so simple. And He keeps his promise. Just as I keep mine. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 9:57:03 PM EDT
[#49]
 11 pages. Epic troll thread is epic. |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 9:57:12 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://i.imgur.com/bw8UZp3.png @Rodent I agree with you that the "god didn't save the people" . but those scratches are recent. The Auschwitz museum themselves confirmed it fairly recently while there was years of speculation prior. https://i.imgur.com/YGH13Dr.png Uh oh, don't tell me this thread is going to turn into questioning what was OEM and what was added after the war... |
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