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Posted: 11/14/2022 5:11:21 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I dug thru my old slides and this may be the same airplane. 1977 Tora Tora Tora show at Oshkosh. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/428674/IMG2_jpg-2599914.JPG I looked around on my media server and I found this 8mm film my dad took at the 1979 Corpus Christi NAS airshow. About 15 years ago I digitized it by pointing the projector at the wall and recording it, so apologies for the poor quality. Anyways, going by the markings on the B17 in the film I'm pretty sure its Texas Raiders.  CCNAS airshow 1979 |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 5:39:00 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You should write the families and tell them how interesting you find it. Perhaps the other internet sluths here can send them photos of their loved ones being ejected from the plane. I'm guessing you wouldn't be in this thread if you didn't find it interesting. |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 5:40:21 PM EDT
[#3]
 All 6 victims in Dallas air show crash identified | Here's the latest on the NTSB investigation |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 5:41:03 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I looked around on my media server and I found this 8mm film my dad took at the 1979 Corpus Christi NAS airshow. About 15 years ago I digitized it by pointing the projector at the wall and recording it, so apologies for the poor quality. Anyways, going by the markings on the B17 in the film I'm pretty sure its Texas Raiders.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fI1952dXQwYLooks like it. (bottom center pic). http://www.warbirdregistry.org/b17registry/b17-4483872.html |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 5:58:08 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm guessing you wouldn't be in this thread if you didn't find it interesting. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You should write the families and tell them how interesting you find it. Perhaps the other internet sluths here can send them photos of their loved ones being ejected from the plane. I'm guessing you wouldn't be in this thread if you didn't find it interesting. exactly. how many of these high horse guys are turning their heads when b/w WWII footage of B-17's falling apart all over Germany comes on. ohbutthatsdifferent.gif |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 6:07:20 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: exactly. how many of these high horse guys are turning their heads when b/w WWII footage of B-17's falling apart all over Germany comes on. ohbutthatsdifferent.gif Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: You should write the families and tell them how interesting you find it. Perhaps the other internet sluths here can send them photos of their loved ones being ejected from the plane. I'm guessing you wouldn't be in this thread if you didn't find it interesting. exactly. how many of these high horse guys are turning their heads when b/w WWII footage of B-17's falling apart all over Germany comes on. ohbutthatsdifferent.gif  Footage from war where that is expected over 77 years ago vs. Non- war time period and no one is supposed to be hurt. JFC. What a brilliant comparison.  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 6:08:56 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Footage from war where that is expected over 77 years ago vs. Non- war time period and no one is supposed to be hurt. What a brilliant comparison. /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/raw-355.gif Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You should write the families and tell them how interesting you find it. Perhaps the other internet sluths here can send them photos of their loved ones being ejected from the plane. I'm guessing you wouldn't be in this thread if you didn't find it interesting. exactly. how many of these high horse guys are turning their heads when b/w WWII footage of B-17's falling apart all over Germany comes on. ohbutthatsdifferent.gif Footage from war where that is expected over 77 years ago vs. Non- war time period and no one is supposed to be hurt. What a brilliant comparison. /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/raw-355.gif Also not likely to be going through that footage frame by frame looking for body parts and giblets. |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 6:10:32 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Also not likely to be going through that footage frame by frame looking for body parts and giblets. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You should write the families and tell them how interesting you find it. Perhaps the other internet sluths here can send them photos of their loved ones being ejected from the plane. I'm guessing you wouldn't be in this thread if you didn't find it interesting. exactly. how many of these high horse guys are turning their heads when b/w WWII footage of B-17's falling apart all over Germany comes on. ohbutthatsdifferent.gif Footage from war where that is expected over 77 years ago vs. Non- war time period and no one is supposed to be hurt. What a brilliant comparison. /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/raw-355.gif Also not likely to be going through that footage frame by frame looking for body parts and giblets. Who doesn't want their family members body parts being analysed frame by frame on the interwebs |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 6:10:59 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Footage from war where that is expected over 77 years ago vs. Non- war time period and no one is supposed to be hurt. What a brilliant comparison. /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/raw-355.gif apparently you value their life less, cause long time ago and war. solid post there guy |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 6:18:07 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who doesn't want their family members body parts being analysed frame by frame on the interwebs who sees body parts? I don't even see the first body other than someone possibly in the cockpit. it's a bunch of pixels. anyone who thinks they see anything more than blurry pixelated wreckage has a wild imagination. leave it to half of you guys to overreact |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 6:18:48 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: who sees body parts? I don't even see the first body other than someone possibly in the cockpit. it's a bunch of pixels. anyone who thinks they see anything more than blurry pixelated wreckage has a wild imagination. leave it to half of you guys to overreact Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Who doesn't want their family members body parts being analysed frame by frame on the interwebs who sees body parts? I don't even see the first body other than someone possibly in the cockpit. it's a bunch of pixels. anyone who thinks they see anything more than blurry pixelated wreckage has a wild imagination. leave it to half of you guys to overreact No call to be looking for bodies in the first place. |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 6:19:26 PM EDT
[#12]
One thing I think we should take more time to consider, is that this tragedy can serve the purpose all the men who died were trying to serve. They wanted us to see what these warbirds would have looked like defending freedom. They showed it. I mean that with the utmost respect. We saw what those pilots during WWII saw.
Mid-air collisions and tragedy like this was a DAILY occurrence during WWII. What we saw unfold happened every single day, only it involved 18 year old kids who gave their lives in the pursuit of freedom. What I saw on video was horrifying. It has given me a new appreciation as well as a reminder of what WWII air combat really looked like. More guys were killed in training than in combat. Those guys were kids from 18-21 on average. They were risking and losing their lives every day. I appreciate all the subject matter experts who've helped us understand. I offer a humble thank you. |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 6:43:46 PM EDT
[#13]
 Midairs suck, and doubly so that low and fast. Sad for the survivors, and the history lost. I hope the tragedy is learned from. A plane I used to work on was in a midair about 18 months ago, the pilot survived and so did the two on board the other plane, freakin miraculous. |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 6:50:24 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Midairs suck, and doubly so that low and fast. Sad for the survivors, and the history lost. I hope the tragedy is learned from. A plane I used to work on was in a midair about 18 months ago, the pilot survived and so did the two on board the other plane, freakin miraculous.  Incredible that the aircraft held together and completed its landing. Also those ballistic chutes seem to have saved a lot of lives. 
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Posted: 11/14/2022 6:54:34 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I do not understand the interest people have in analyzing these details, talking about 'energy transfer,' etc A terrible accident took place It was in no way survivable by anybody involved, much less the aircraft Being grateful that accepting the prior two points, there was no pain or suffering by anybody That ought to be enough Everything else outside of the NTSB investigation and lessons learned is just morbid rubbernecking IMO Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Again, this photo is taken fractions of a second after impact. A human has barely perceived that something is occurring at this point, much less being able to move one's arm into a position to brace against forces being experienced. I do not understand the interest people have in analyzing these details, talking about 'energy transfer,' etc A terrible accident took place It was in no way survivable by anybody involved, much less the aircraft Being grateful that accepting the prior two points, there was no pain or suffering by anybody That ought to be enough Everything else outside of the NTSB investigation and lessons learned is just morbid rubbernecking IMO Many people deal with traumatic experiences by trying to understand it. Yeah, there is some “morbid rubbernecking” in this thread, but it doesn’t seem to me to be the intent of most here. |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 7:01:26 PM EDT
[#16]
NTSB investigators find GPS devices
 NTSB investigators find GPS devices | Here's the latest on the Dallas air show crash |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 7:02:14 PM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 11/14/2022 7:23:23 PM EDT
[#18]
Many thanks to the SME's here. Purse swinging has begun so I'll just check out.
Prayers still outbound. |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 7:30:07 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Many people deal with traumatic experiences by trying to understand it. Yeah, there is some "morbid rubbernecking" in this thread, but it doesn't seem to me to be the intent of most here. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Again, this photo is taken fractions of a second after impact. A human has barely perceived that something is occurring at this point, much less being able to move one's arm into a position to brace against forces being experienced. I do not understand the interest people have in analyzing these details, talking about 'energy transfer,' etc A terrible accident took place It was in no way survivable by anybody involved, much less the aircraft Being grateful that accepting the prior two points, there was no pain or suffering by anybody That ought to be enough Everything else outside of the NTSB investigation and lessons learned is just morbid rubbernecking IMO Many people deal with traumatic experiences by trying to understand it. Yeah, there is some "morbid rubbernecking" in this thread, but it doesn't seem to me to be the intent of most here. This place is drowning in pilots, mechanics, investigators, engineers, intelligence analysts, researchers, etc. Needing to know why is just baked in to Arf's cake. |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 7:30:24 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Incredible that the aircraft held together and completed its landing. Also those ballistic chutes seem to have saved a lot of lives. https://cdn.aviation-safety.net/photos/accidents/20210512-0-C-1.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Midairs suck, and doubly so that low and fast. Sad for the survivors, and the history lost. I hope the tragedy is learned from. A plane I used to work on was in a midair about 18 months ago, the pilot survived and so did the two on board the other plane, freakin miraculous. Incredible that the aircraft held together and completed its landing. Also those ballistic chutes seem to have saved a lot of lives. https://cdn.aviation-safety.net/photos/accidents/20210512-0-C-1.jpg We had a a thread here for it, pilot of the Metro has liquid nitrogen in his veins... the video from TX shows just how miraculous that was. I have an acquaintance who is alive because of a CAPS deployment. If I ever own a plane it will likely be a Cirrus, or if I ever build a plane it will have a BRS chute. Aviation is dangerous. The rewards outweighs the risk IMO. The coolest and most professional people I have every known are in aviation. It is pretty special to hear those old birds shake my house when we have the airshow at the airport close to my home. |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 7:49:58 PM EDT
[#21]
I saw three Mustangs today, which has nothing to do with this thread, other than to remind me how beautiful these machines are and to appreciate the people and groups that keep them flying.
Thanks to the posters who have contributed to the useful information in this conversation.  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 8:00:43 PM EDT
[#22]
National news NBC covered the story tonight including info on those who lost their lives. They had some class and stopped the videos just prior to the impact. They did show some still photos (looked like from the flight line area) of the explosion as it happened after impact with the ground.
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Posted: 11/14/2022 8:06:36 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Humans are curious creatures and the makeup of this forum trends heavily towards people who are analytical in nature. This place is drowning in pilots, mechanics, investigators, engineers, intelligence analysts, researchers, etc. Needing to know why is just baked in to Arf's cake. There are also a lot of weirdos who get really creepy when it comes to this kind of thing. |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 8:14:45 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One thing I think we should take more time to consider, is that this tragedy can serve the purpose all the men who died were trying to serve. They wanted us to see what these warbirds would have looked like defending freedom. They showed it. I mean that with the utmost respect. We saw what those pilots during WWII saw. Mid-air collisions and tragedy like this was a DAILY occurrence during WWII. What we saw unfold happened every single day, only it involved 18 year old kids who gave their lives in the pursuit of freedom. What I saw on video was horrifying. It has given me a new appreciation as well as a reminder of what WWII air combat really looked like. More guys were killed in training than in combat. Those guys were kids from 18-21 on average. They were risking and losing their lives every day. I appreciate all the subject matter experts who've helped us understand. I offer a humble thank you. I get what you’re saying about the horrors of everyday USAAF life in WW2, but that also is like saying to see how bad the holocaust was they should be shoving Jews into an oven at the holocaust museum. No problem here going over the details and theories regarding this accident, but I think the gory details about how these men died after the collision and on the way to the ground is pretty disrespectful to them. These men were not fighting in a war, they were honoring the men who flew these machines and wanted I’m sure to provide a positive experience for the people attending this event. |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 8:16:27 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well... ADS-B Out is already a requirement pretty much everywhere, with a few exceptions for planes like Cubs with no electrical systems and the seemingly ever shrinking Class G airspace. Since ADS-B Out is a requirement, having ADS-B In capability just seems like a smart idea to have. Not sure how well TCAS will go over with the GA community. Sounds like an expensive add on, although I'm sure the avionics manufacturers and the A&Ps will be very happy. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: They are pushing ADS-B and TCAS. ADS-B in, is great for traffic awareness. It makes TCAS somewhat redundant with the exception that ADS-B traffic doesn't provide deconfliction direction to conflicting airplanes like TCAS does. But since ADS-B in provides target trend data, it makes deconfliction decisions pretty easy. I've had a portable ADS-B in solution since I started flying and I don't know anyone who flies without it. It's also very affordable. You can build a Stratux for $200, and there are even free tablet apps that will put your own ship and other traffic, with altitude, direction, and velocity data, geolocated on top of an FAA chart, in real time. That said, it may not have made a difference in this case. Traffic position data on ADS-B in lags 5 to 10 seconds or so in a high traffic area. With so many aircraft in this kind of proximity in the pattern, you really want your head up and eyes outside maintaining awareness of where the other airplanes are, not head down looking at your gizmos. |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 8:20:49 PM EDT
[#26]
Several people on other boards commented that it appears intentional. I don't necessarily believe that but with this video it appears the 63 had the 17 directly in front of him and his nose was tracking straight to the 17. Roughly 1-2 seconds he starts a hard left turn right into the mid-section of the 17.
IMHO the 63 pilot was most likely looking down the runway to where he needed to be and was not watching what was directly in front of him. Just a terrible tragedy all around.  WW2 B-17 Bomber Texas Raiders Crash in Airshow Today |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 8:21:40 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I get what you’re saying about the horrors of everyday USAAF life in WW2, but that also is like saying to see how bad the holocaust was they should be shoving Jews into an oven at the holocaust museum. No problem here going over the details and theories regarding this accident, but I think the gory details about how these men died after the collision and on the way to the ground is pretty disrespectful to them. These men were not fighting in a war, they were honoring the men who flew these machines and wanted I’m sure to provide a positive experience for the people attending this event. Viewing or not viewing the accident isn't going to impact the outcome, it isn't disrespectful on it's own, and with the way media portrays it you'd likely see it even if you didn't want to. It happened and we're going to see it. That's out of our control. We can control how we look at it, and I don't see it as just an analytical accident to investigate. This is a full HD visual of what those kids did overseas, and I'd like to think that if it boosts the respect in which you hold all those airmen, the crews of each accident aircraft would feel that their deaths were not in vain. I certainly never wished it happened, but an accident is very different than an intentional act like the holocaust. Agreed 100% that the gory details do nothing to add to the lesson and that it is a strange and unhealthy curiosity of the human mind. |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 8:24:22 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Several people on other boards commented that it appears intentional. I don't necessarily believe that but with this video it appears the 63 had the 17 directly in front of him and his nose was tracking straight to the 17. Roughly 1-2 seconds he starts a hard left turn right into the mid-section of the 17. IMHO the 63 pilot was most likely looking down the runway to where he needed to be and was not watching what was directly in front of him. Just a terrible tragedy all around. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbR-_n2P6toWith the angles involved it is entirely probable that his view was completely occluded until the moment of impact. He may well never have known what happened, and it may be a mercy if so. |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 8:25:20 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ADS-B in, is great for traffic awareness. It makes TCAS somewhat redundant with the exception that ADS-B traffic doesn't provide deconfliction direction to conflicting airplanes like TCAS does. But since ADS-B in provides target trend data, it makes deconfliction decisions pretty easy. I've had a portable ADS-B in solution since I started flying and I don't know anyone who flies without it. It's also very affordable. You can build a Stratux for $200, and there are even free tablet apps that will put your own ship and other traffic, with altitude, direction, and velocity data, geolocated on top of an FAA chart, in real time. That said, it may not have made a difference in this case. Traffic position data on ADS-B in lags 5 to 10 seconds or so in a high traffic area. With so many aircraft in this kind of proximity in the pattern, you really want your head up and eyes outside maintaining awareness of where the other airplanes are, not head down looking at your gizmos. You wouldn't be looking at ADS-B even if the aircraft had IN capability. It's a VFR flight near other aircraft under the direction of an air boss. Any kind of digital display with other aircraft would be absolutely useless that close in at that speed. ADS-B/TCAS is to give you a heads up on aircraft MILES away. The best explanation I've seen here is that the airboss gave an implied overtake/clear to the P63, and the P63 relied on that to do what it did. There is no way it saw the B17 and the B17 had the right of way. |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 8:30:23 PM EDT
[#30]
I think I’m going to check out of this thread at this point. When it degrades to discussions about looking for bodies in high-res photos, that’s enough for me. Call me what you will.
MudEagle, I’ve truly reading your insights on this and in general. If you’re ever in Jacksonville/St. Augustine, please reach out. I have machine guns if you have a few hours to burn and the ammo is on me. Would love to talk about warbirds, the bombers, etc. All my best man. |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 8:32:21 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Car crashes have a much higher rate of survival than airplane crashes. Cars are designed to crash… airplanes, not so much. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My best friend died in a car crash…never thought about giving up driving…  Car crashes have a much higher rate of survival than airplane crashes. Cars are designed to crash… airplanes, not so much. And?
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Posted: 11/14/2022 8:34:11 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You wouldn't be looking at ADS-B even if the aircraft had IN capability. It's a VFR flight near other aircraft under the direction of an air boss. Any kind of digital display with other aircraft would be absolutely useless that close in at that speed. ADS-B/TCAS is to give you a heads up on aircraft MILES away. The best explanation I've seen here is that the airboss gave an implied overtake/clear to the P63, and the P63 relied on that to do what it did. There is no way it saw the B17 and the B17 had the right of way. Apparently you didn't read my entire post before pushing the expert snark button. The last paragraph I wrote in that post, is duplicated here for your convenience: "With so many aircraft in this kind of proximity in the pattern, you really want your head up and eyes outside maintaining awareness of where the other airplanes are, not head down looking at your gizmos." |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 8:57:23 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote History@MudEagle, what was that hole in the top of the fuselage just before the rudder? |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 9:01:09 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @MudEagle, what was that hole in the top of the fuselage just before the rudder? Quote HistoryQuoted: @MudEagle, what was that hole in the top of the fuselage just before the rudder? Dorsal gunner position. That is an opening for a gun installed in the radio cabin. |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 9:08:09 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dorsal gunner position. That is an opening for a gun installed in the radio cabin. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: @MudEagle, what was that hole in the top of the fuselage just before the rudder? Dorsal gunner position. That is an opening for a gun installed in the radio cabin. 
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Posted: 11/14/2022 9:12:47 PM EDT
[#36]
Thanks. I didn't realize there was another gun position up there besides the top turret.
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Posted: 11/14/2022 9:14:48 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote History |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 9:15:35 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is that an antennae sticking up, or a stop to keep the gunner from hitting the fin? Quote HistoryQuoted: Is that an antennae sticking up, or a stop to keep the gunner from hitting the fin? Antenna. No stop. 
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Posted: 11/14/2022 9:20:26 PM EDT
[#39]
Juan
 'Wings Over Dallas' Mid Air Collision Report |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 9:33:35 PM EDT
[#40]
This is a tragedy on many levels. Loss of good men. And loss of pieces of history we no longer get to see come visit us.
I was (because of my employer) around the C.A.F. a lot in the early 80's. Looking back, the best part was all the WWII and Korean war pilots I got to know. All fit a mold and they were all great guys. The second best part was the planes. I learned to machine on a lathe tagged "This machine conforms to orders of the war production board". And all those planes were made on manual machines. Not a bunch of hammer and axe machinist's (like I turned out to be), but men making parts one at time, knowing someone's life was in the balance. The loss of men flying these old birds, and the loss of the planes is just another page taken from history gone up in flames. p.s: Scouring the photos for gore, and then highlighting it for others is character defect (in my opinion). |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 9:33:57 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryWell dang. We met Mr. Ragan back in May when the Texas Raiders came to central Georgia. Apparently he served on that exact aircraft when it belonged to the Navy. |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 10:28:38 PM EDT
[#42]
From a pilots group on FB. This is the ADS-B track.
 Dallas Airshow Mid-air Collision - Flight Track Overlay |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 10:36:27 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: @MudEagle, what was that hole in the top of the fuselage just before the rudder? Dorsal gunner position. That is an opening for a gun installed in the radio cabin. https://www.americanairmuseum.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/freeman/media-458137.jpg?itok=n2t1cvRi A pretty large section of that turret and towards the nose can be opened up. The hatch folds down and forward towards the radio and nav stations, which are just behind the bomb bays. That is a very open section of the airplane and one of the reasons the plane disintegrated when that spot was hit. I had a bunch of pics in my thread in the aviation forum and I think they have disappeared. Not my video, gives an idea.  Dave's B-17 Bomber Flight - Looking out the top hatch |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 10:38:23 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryThis was a good video, thanks for posting it. |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 10:45:33 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Several people on other boards commented that it appears intentional. I don't necessarily believe that but with this video it appears the 63 had the 17 directly in front of him and his nose was tracking straight to the 17. Roughly 1-2 seconds he starts a hard left turn right into the mid-section of the 17. IMHO the 63 pilot was most likely looking down the runway to where he needed to be and was not watching what was directly in front of him. Just a terrible tragedy all around. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbR-_n2P6toThese men were not the type of men who would intentionally fly a plane into another. The implication of such is reprehensible. |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 10:45:36 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Several people on other boards commented that it appears intentional. I don't necessarily believe that but with this video it appears the 63 had the 17 directly in front of him and his nose was tracking straight to the 17. Roughly 1-2 seconds he starts a hard left turn right into the mid-section of the 17. IMHO the 63 pilot was most likely looking down the runway to where he needed to be and was not watching what was directly in front of him. Just a terrible tragedy all around. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbR-_n2P6toI can't get this song out of my head.  1955 Kay Cee Jones - The Japanese Farewell Song |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 11:10:05 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: These men were not the type of men who would intentionally fly a plane into another. The implication of such is reprehensible. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Several people on other boards commented that it appears intentional. I don't necessarily believe that but with this video it appears the 63 had the 17 directly in front of him and his nose was tracking straight to the 17. Roughly 1-2 seconds he starts a hard left turn right into the mid-section of the 17. IMHO the 63 pilot was most likely looking down the runway to where he needed to be and was not watching what was directly in front of him. Just a terrible tragedy all around. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbR-_n2P6toThese men were not the type of men who would intentionally fly a plane into another. The implication of such is reprehensible. Agreed. |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 11:29:14 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Antenna. No stop. There wasn't a mechanical interrupter of some sort to keep the gunner from hitting the fin? Would almost seem obvious, but IDK. |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 11:33:05 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There wasn't a mechanical interrupter of some sort to keep the gunner from hitting the fin? Would almost seem obvious, but IDK. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Antenna. No stop. There wasn't a mechanical interrupter of some sort to keep the gunner from hitting the fin? Would almost seem obvious, but IDK. Not on the radio gun. A quick search says the upper turret does have one. Pics of the electro mechanical interrupter here. http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=513302 |
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Posted: 11/14/2022 11:42:06 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not on the radio gun. A quick search says the upper turret does have one. Pics of the electro mechanical interrupter here. http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=513302 Crazy that there wouldn't be one. Guess the gunner just had to be careful. I found the pictures in that thread to be awesome. The inside of the interrupter looks like a watch movement 
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