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Posted: 8/18/2021 8:31:45 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is there cad available on these? @spacequack on tiktok is who you seek  Rare Breed FRT-15 Trigger |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 9:49:57 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryI was thinking about this last night. If the courts go full tard and SCOTUS doesnt take up the case and the BS stands which leads to letters/knocks... What would you actually have to turn in? I would think JUST the housing would suffice and keeping the other metal/small parts. Then might be a time to get into 3D printing...always wanted to get one. 3D printing a housing, with the rest being metal parts, seems pretty robust given trigger pins etc are still supported by the lower receiver. Does this guy have the printing files hosted anywhere? Asking for a friend. |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 9:57:19 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://i.ibb.co/b76XQpV/CAses.png Can someone with some legalese knowledge explain how this isn't really bad news for Rare Breed? The way I'm reading this is that there was already court rulings stating "a firearm is a machinegun when an internal mechanism or operation automatically forces the individual's finger forward instead of requiring that the shooter release the trigger." That would appear to be game over just based on case law.. until appeals are made to higher courts no? ...of course by this asinine definition, they could just as well say bump firing any rifle turns it into a MG. 'Case law' isn't law it is just precedent based on very specifics of a certain case. I think some judges use it as an excuse to keep from making unpopular, but proper, decisions. |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 10:07:58 AM EDT
[#4]
rbt website wont let you use a credit card atm, only crypto
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Posted: 8/18/2021 10:09:54 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree with this, they cannot effectively fight battles on too many fronts. Divide and conquer. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Now is the time to push. President dementia is in no condition to rally the Democrats, VP heels up is universally disliked and a joke, the entire administration is getting hammered in the press for Afghanistan, China is going after Taiwan, it’s a free for all. Everyone smells weakness from this administration, and we have favorable SCOTUS chances. No better time than now to gut the AFT. I agree with this, they cannot effectively fight battles on too many fronts. Divide and conquer. Nah. Then they'll 'conveniently' just rachet up the covid narrative so everything else gets forgotten. Just like they're using a-stan as cover for the current shortcomings of the shots. I expect some |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 10:16:20 AM EDT
[#6]
And that case precedent is also why binary triggers aren't machine guns, because they're require 2 separate "acts", for those who thing that binaries will be next on the chopping block.
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Posted: 8/18/2021 10:21:37 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And that case precedent is also why binary triggers aren't machine guns, because they're require 2 separate "acts", for those who thing that binaries will be next on the chopping block. They're making stuff up as they go, so nothing is beyond them at least trying. |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 10:29:29 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They're making stuff up as they go, so nothing is beyond them at least trying. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: And that case precedent is also why binary triggers aren't machine guns, because they're require 2 separate "acts", for those who thing that binaries will be next on the chopping block. They're making stuff up as they go, so nothing is beyond them at least trying. Yup - they have no problem being 100% self-contradictory. Court: sawed off shotguns can be regulated by the government because they are not in common use by the military and therefore not covered by the 2nd amendment. Also Court: machineguns can be regulated by the government because they are in common use by the military and are therefore dangerous and not covered by the 2nd amendment. ergo - all things can be regulated by government and the 2nd covers nothing. |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 11:02:28 AM EDT
[#9]
It looks like they are back to only accepting Bitcoin
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Posted: 8/18/2021 11:20:40 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It looks like they are back to only accepting Bitcoin I wouldn't be in the least surprised if that's from a continuation of the Obama-era program to have banks and credit processors kick firearms related companies to the curb. It's a very real and very dangerous weakness in the industry. Frankly - aside from cryptocurrency I'm not sure how it can be overcome without a massive push to develop and maintain alternative payment infrastructure. |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 11:56:03 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They're making stuff up as they go, so nothing is beyond them at least trying. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: And that case precedent is also why binary triggers aren't machine guns, because they're require 2 separate "acts", for those who thing that binaries will be next on the chopping block. They're making stuff up as they go, so nothing is beyond them at least trying. AFT disingenuously limited the scope of the bump stock ban to curb resistance. "Not semis\binarys"  |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 11:56:30 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ergo - all things can be regulated by government and the 2nd covers nothing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: And that case precedent is also why binary triggers aren't machine guns, because they're require 2 separate "acts", for those who thing that binaries will be next on the chopping block. They're making stuff up as they go, so nothing is beyond them at least trying. ergo - all things can be regulated by government and the 2nd covers nothing. WRONG!  Attached File
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Posted: 8/18/2021 12:09:52 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wouldn't be in the least surprised if that's from a continuation of the Obama-era program to have banks and credit processors kick firearms related companies to the curb. It's a very real and very dangerous weakness in the industry. Frankly - aside from cryptocurrency I'm not sure how it can be overcome without a massive push to develop and maintain alternative payment infrastructure. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It looks like they are back to only accepting Bitcoin I wouldn't be in the least surprised if that's from a continuation of the Obama-era program to have banks and credit processors kick firearms related companies to the curb. It's a very real and very dangerous weakness in the industry. Frankly - aside from cryptocurrency I'm not sure how it can be overcome without a massive push to develop and maintain alternative payment infrastructure. They just need to accept a check or money order is all. Back in the day we used to mail a check or money order to buy something from the back of Shotgun News and other periodical publications. People have the means if they want something it’s not that difficult. The modern instant self gratification click and ship can become irrelevant if need be. But with everyone clinging to muh amazon etc many will go without something rather than put a little effort into it. No different than putting in a little effort to find local owned places to buy the things you need. Cut off the funding of the mega Corp conglomerates to regain local independence. Which in time will become regional independence. Which will in time become national independence. Basic concept but takes people who want freedom on the ground doing their part |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 12:34:50 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They just need to accept a check or money order is all. Back in the day we used to mail a check or money order to buy something from the back of Shotgun News and other periodical publications. People have the means if they want something it’s not that difficult. The modern instant self gratification click and ship can become irrelevant if need be. But with everyone clinging to muh amazon etc many will go without something rather than put a little effort into it. No different than putting in a little effort to find local owned places to buy the things you need. Cut off the funding of the mega Corp conglomerates to regain local independence. Which in time will become regional independence. Which will in time become national independence. Basic concept but takes people who want freedom on the ground doing their part Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: It looks like they are back to only accepting Bitcoin I wouldn't be in the least surprised if that's from a continuation of the Obama-era program to have banks and credit processors kick firearms related companies to the curb. It's a very real and very dangerous weakness in the industry. Frankly - aside from cryptocurrency I'm not sure how it can be overcome without a massive push to develop and maintain alternative payment infrastructure. They just need to accept a check or money order is all. Back in the day we used to mail a check or money order to buy something from the back of Shotgun News and other periodical publications. People have the means if they want something it’s not that difficult. The modern instant self gratification click and ship can become irrelevant if need be. But with everyone clinging to muh amazon etc many will go without something rather than put a little effort into it. No different than putting in a little effort to find local owned places to buy the things you need. Cut off the funding of the mega Corp conglomerates to regain local independence. Which in time will become regional independence. Which will in time become national independence. Basic concept but takes people who want freedom on the ground doing their part Yeah but but but that would take a looongTM* time...like maybe two or three weeks. *that's a reference to some peoples thoughts of 6 months being long term in the covid |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 12:46:37 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah but but but that would take a looongTM* time...like maybe two or three weeks. *that's a reference to some peoples thoughts of 6 months being long term in the covid Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It looks like they are back to only accepting Bitcoin I wouldn't be in the least surprised if that's from a continuation of the Obama-era program to have banks and credit processors kick firearms related companies to the curb. It's a very real and very dangerous weakness in the industry. Frankly - aside from cryptocurrency I'm not sure how it can be overcome without a massive push to develop and maintain alternative payment infrastructure. They just need to accept a check or money order is all. Back in the day we used to mail a check or money order to buy something from the back of Shotgun News and other periodical publications. People have the means if they want something it’s not that difficult. The modern instant self gratification click and ship can become irrelevant if need be. But with everyone clinging to muh amazon etc many will go without something rather than put a little effort into it. No different than putting in a little effort to find local owned places to buy the things you need. Cut off the funding of the mega Corp conglomerates to regain local independence. Which in time will become regional independence. Which will in time become national independence. Basic concept but takes people who want freedom on the ground doing their part Yeah but but but that would take a looongTM* time...like maybe two or three weeks. *that's a reference to some peoples thoughts of 6 months being long term in the covid Nobody has any patience for that stuff anymore. People are ready to start a war over 2-3 day delays. |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 12:50:26 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nobody has any patience for that stuff anymore. People are ready to start a war over 2-3 day delays. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It looks like they are back to only accepting Bitcoin I wouldn't be in the least surprised if that's from a continuation of the Obama-era program to have banks and credit processors kick firearms related companies to the curb. It's a very real and very dangerous weakness in the industry. Frankly - aside from cryptocurrency I'm not sure how it can be overcome without a massive push to develop and maintain alternative payment infrastructure. They just need to accept a check or money order is all. Back in the day we used to mail a check or money order to buy something from the back of Shotgun News and other periodical publications. People have the means if they want something it’s not that difficult. The modern instant self gratification click and ship can become irrelevant if need be. But with everyone clinging to muh amazon etc many will go without something rather than put a little effort into it. No different than putting in a little effort to find local owned places to buy the things you need. Cut off the funding of the mega Corp conglomerates to regain local independence. Which in time will become regional independence. Which will in time become national independence. Basic concept but takes people who want freedom on the ground doing their part Yeah but but but that would take a looongTM* time...like maybe two or three weeks. *that's a reference to some peoples thoughts of 6 months being long term in the covid Nobody has any patience for that stuff anymore. People are ready to start a war over 2-3 day delays. Yep. I can see the future when beaming technology is here- "PSA shipping is slow-took 28 seconds to get my order!!!" |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 12:51:34 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: rbt website wont let you use a credit card atm, only crypto Welcome to five days ago. |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 12:58:02 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bingo! I was waiting for someone to bring this up. Silence is golden. Exactly. If you think you can talk to the feds and they won't dig for a way to twist what you say, to where it becomes a "lie".... you're a fucking moron |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 1:00:13 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Even if you define it as pull, the FRT-15 isn’t a machine gun. The shooter has to pull the trigger for every round fired. No you don’t. Optimal cyclic rate is achieved by finding the “sweet spot” where your finger acts merely as a stationary object for the trigger to “bounce” off of. In practical terms your finger is going to move because of the way physics works but you can get a FRT to go “full auto” with a dowel and vice. |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 1:00:25 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly. If you think you can talk to the feds and they won't dig for a way to twist what you say, to where it becomes a "lie".... you're a fucking moron Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Bingo! I was waiting for someone to bring this up. Silence is golden. Exactly. If you think you can talk to the feds and they won't dig for a way to twist what you say, to where it becomes a "lie".... you're a fucking moron It really boils down to this: If the feds are talking to you, they don't have a warrant. If they had what they needed to get one, they wouldn't be talking to you. They'd be serving you with a warrant. They are talking to you hoping that you lie, or admit to something, that will allow them to get a warrant. Therefore, don't talk to feds. |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 1:02:04 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No you don’t. Optimal cyclic rate is achieved by finding the “sweet spot” where your finger acts merely as a stationary object for the trigger to “bounce” off of. In practical terms your finger is going to move because of the way physics works but you can get a FRT to go “full auto” with a dowel and vice. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Even if you define it as pull, the FRT-15 isn’t a machine gun. The shooter has to pull the trigger for every round fired. No you don’t. Optimal cyclic rate is achieved by finding the “sweet spot” where your finger acts merely as a stationary object for the trigger to “bounce” off of. In practical terms your finger is going to move because of the way physics works but you can get a FRT to go “full auto” with a dowel and vice. Dowel flexes, becoming a spring, therefore you've manufactured a machine gun. You could do the same with a properly anchored AR and a trigger like a Geissele SD3G with a short reset. Arguing that your finger is somehow the mechanical part of the machine gun is patently absurd. Also lmao "finger is stationary and trigger bounces" and then 10 words later "your finger moves". |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 1:03:33 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: but the shooter is not releasing the trigger, allowing it to reset, therefore it's one "(continuous) trigger pull". AFT BS You can’t keep the shoe pulled all the way to the rear, the FRT won’t function. You have to move your finger toward so the trigger can reset. |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 1:04:46 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Welcome to five days ago. No, it started accepting CC's again a day or two after it went to crypto. Looks like it is back to crypto only. |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 1:49:30 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, it started accepting CC's again a day or two after it went to crypto. Looks like it is back to crypto only. I haven't seen that before even with companies experiencing legal battles. Usually it's either site gets shut down and/or sales stop or it's business as usual. |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 2:36:51 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Welcome to five days ago. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: rbt website wont let you use a credit card atm, only crypto Welcome to five days ago. Well two days ago they were accepting credit cards again, so you haven't been following along either..... |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 3:47:29 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dowel flexes, becoming a spring, therefore you've manufactured a machine gun. You could do the same with a properly anchored AR and a trigger like a Geissele SD3G with a short reset. Arguing that your finger is somehow the mechanical part of the machine gun is patently absurd. Also lmao "finger is stationary and trigger bounces" and then 10 words later "your finger moves". Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Even if you define it as pull, the FRT-15 isn’t a machine gun. The shooter has to pull the trigger for every round fired. No you don’t. Optimal cyclic rate is achieved by finding the “sweet spot” where your finger acts merely as a stationary object for the trigger to “bounce” off of. In practical terms your finger is going to move because of the way physics works but you can get a FRT to go “full auto” with a dowel and vice. Dowel flexes, becoming a spring, therefore you've manufactured a machine gun. You could do the same with a properly anchored AR and a trigger like a Geissele SD3G with a short reset. Arguing that your finger is somehow the mechanical part of the machine gun is patently absurd. Also lmao "finger is stationary and trigger bounces" and then 10 words later "your finger moves". I don’t get why people keep trying to come up with some tortured explanation for why the FRT-15 is a machine gun when slow motion video of its function vs an actual machine gun and schematic drawings of its parts clearly show that it doesn’t meet the statutory definition. It’s like they just can’t help gobbling the ATFs balls and shaft, wiping their chin off, and then asking for more. It’s baffling. |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 3:51:14 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don’t get why people keep trying to come up with some tortured explanation for why the FRT-15 is a machine gun when slow motion video of its function vs an actual machine gun and schematic drawings of its parts clearly show that it doesn’t meet the statutory definition. It’s like they just can’t help gobbling the ATFs balls and shaft, wiping their chin off, and then asking for more. It’s baffling. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Even if you define it as pull, the FRT-15 isn’t a machine gun. The shooter has to pull the trigger for every round fired. No you don’t. Optimal cyclic rate is achieved by finding the “sweet spot” where your finger acts merely as a stationary object for the trigger to “bounce” off of. In practical terms your finger is going to move because of the way physics works but you can get a FRT to go “full auto” with a dowel and vice. Dowel flexes, becoming a spring, therefore you've manufactured a machine gun. You could do the same with a properly anchored AR and a trigger like a Geissele SD3G with a short reset. Arguing that your finger is somehow the mechanical part of the machine gun is patently absurd. Also lmao "finger is stationary and trigger bounces" and then 10 words later "your finger moves". I don’t get why people keep trying to come up with some tortured explanation for why the FRT-15 is a machine gun when slow motion video of its function vs an actual machine gun and schematic drawings of its parts clearly show that it doesn’t meet the statutory definition. It’s like they just can’t help gobbling the ATFs balls and shaft, wiping their chin off, and then asking for more. It’s baffling. The reality is that the FRT shouldn't exist, because MGs shouldn't be illegal. But freedom is scary to some people I guess. |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 3:57:06 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well two days ago they were accepting credit cards again, so you haven't been following along either..... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: rbt website wont let you use a credit card atm, only crypto Welcome to five days ago. Well two days ago they were accepting credit cards again, so you haven't been following along either..... Elementary question here, is this to circumvent potential credit card records/lists or a Fuck You to anti 2A credit card companies? |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 3:57:31 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don’t get why people keep trying to come up with some tortured explanation for why the FRT-15 is a machine gun when slow motion video of its function vs an actual machine gun and schematic drawings of its parts clearly show that it doesn’t meet the statutory definition. It’s like they just can’t help gobbling the ATFs balls and shaft, wiping their chin off, and then asking for more. It’s baffling. One possibility may be because bump stocks weren't machine guns either, and the same slow-mo vids didn't mean dick last time. So now maybe some feel like splitting hairs between gun nerds is going to save them from the tyranny. It won't. Could also be a soothing mechanism to prevent totally losing their shit . Instead of the hair splitting, my only wish would be for gun owners to unite in a one voice to shout "we won't comply" with this bullshit....or whatever action may be needed to emphasize the "no". |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 3:58:51 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One possibility may be because bump stocks weren't machine guns either, and the same slow-mo vids didn't mean dick last time. So now maybe some feel like splitting hairs between gun nerds is going to save them from the tyranny. It won't. Could also be a soothing mechanism to prevent totally losing their shit . Instead of the hair splitting, my only wish would be for gun owners to unite in a one voice to shout "we won't comply" with this bullshit....or whatever action may be needed to emphasize the "no". Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don’t get why people keep trying to come up with some tortured explanation for why the FRT-15 is a machine gun when slow motion video of its function vs an actual machine gun and schematic drawings of its parts clearly show that it doesn’t meet the statutory definition. It’s like they just can’t help gobbling the ATFs balls and shaft, wiping their chin off, and then asking for more. It’s baffling. One possibility may be because bump stocks weren't machine guns either, and the same slow-mo vids didn't mean dick last time. So now maybe some feel like splitting hairs between gun nerds is going to save them from the tyranny. It won't. Could also be a soothing mechanism to prevent totally losing their shit . Instead of the hair splitting, my only wish would be for gun owners to unite in a one voice to shout "we won't comply" with this bullshit....or whatever action may be needed to emphasize the "no". Hard to do when all the boomer fudds on the internet will drop the dime on you immediately if you say you aren't complying. |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 4:02:05 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hard to do when all the boomer fudds on the internet will drop the dime on you immediately if you say you aren't complying. That's why we shouldn't let them in to the cool kids club! And when the time comes that all club members are helping each other out, they'll be resting comfortably in their lamby wool covered jerry chairs stroking off to how obedient they are. 
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Posted: 8/18/2021 4:02:19 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The reality is that the FRT shouldn't exist, because MGs shouldn't be illegal. But freedom is scary to some people I guess. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Even if you define it as pull, the FRT-15 isn’t a machine gun. The shooter has to pull the trigger for every round fired. No you don’t. Optimal cyclic rate is achieved by finding the “sweet spot” where your finger acts merely as a stationary object for the trigger to “bounce” off of. In practical terms your finger is going to move because of the way physics works but you can get a FRT to go “full auto” with a dowel and vice. Dowel flexes, becoming a spring, therefore you've manufactured a machine gun. You could do the same with a properly anchored AR and a trigger like a Geissele SD3G with a short reset. Arguing that your finger is somehow the mechanical part of the machine gun is patently absurd. Also lmao "finger is stationary and trigger bounces" and then 10 words later "your finger moves". I don’t get why people keep trying to come up with some tortured explanation for why the FRT-15 is a machine gun when slow motion video of its function vs an actual machine gun and schematic drawings of its parts clearly show that it doesn’t meet the statutory definition. It’s like they just can’t help gobbling the ATFs balls and shaft, wiping their chin off, and then asking for more. It’s baffling. The reality is that the FRT shouldn't exist, because MGs shouldn't be illegal. But freedom is scary to some people I guess. Susie Soccer Mom wouldn’t be able to post her loving and encouraging memes with rainbows and sunsets on social media if millions of gun owners could lawfully enjoy their autos. |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 4:04:20 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hard to do when all the boomer fudds on the internet will drop the dime on you immediately if you say you aren't complying. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I don’t get why people keep trying to come up with some tortured explanation for why the FRT-15 is a machine gun when slow motion video of its function vs an actual machine gun and schematic drawings of its parts clearly show that it doesn’t meet the statutory definition. It’s like they just can’t help gobbling the ATFs balls and shaft, wiping their chin off, and then asking for more. It’s baffling. One possibility may be because bump stocks weren't machine guns either, and the same slow-mo vids didn't mean dick last time. So now maybe some feel like splitting hairs between gun nerds is going to save them from the tyranny. It won't. Could also be a soothing mechanism to prevent totally losing their shit . Instead of the hair splitting, my only wish would be for gun owners to unite in a one voice to shout "we won't comply" with this bullshit....or whatever action may be needed to emphasize the "no". Hard to do when all the boomer fudds on the internet will drop the dime on you immediately if you say you aren't complying. How many on this very site called them stupid range toys/NFA workarounds, and dogpiled anyone bitching about it?  The only thing that might, might bring gun owners together would be feinswine and her "Mr and Mrs America, turn them all in moment". No more death of a thousand cuts/slow roll-ban them all and lets decide this shit once and for all. |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 4:05:01 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No you don’t. Optimal cyclic rate is achieved by finding the “sweet spot” where your finger acts merely as a stationary object for the trigger to “bounce” off of. In practical terms your finger is going to move because of the way physics works but you can get a FRT to go “full auto” with a dowel and vice. That isn't how it works. |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 4:09:10 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Susie Soccer Mom wouldn’t be able to post her loving and encouraging memes with rainbows and sunsets on social media if millions of gun owners could lawfully enjoy their autos. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Even if you define it as pull, the FRT-15 isn’t a machine gun. The shooter has to pull the trigger for every round fired. No you don’t. Optimal cyclic rate is achieved by finding the “sweet spot” where your finger acts merely as a stationary object for the trigger to “bounce” off of. In practical terms your finger is going to move because of the way physics works but you can get a FRT to go “full auto” with a dowel and vice. Dowel flexes, becoming a spring, therefore you've manufactured a machine gun. You could do the same with a properly anchored AR and a trigger like a Geissele SD3G with a short reset. Arguing that your finger is somehow the mechanical part of the machine gun is patently absurd. Also lmao "finger is stationary and trigger bounces" and then 10 words later "your finger moves". I don’t get why people keep trying to come up with some tortured explanation for why the FRT-15 is a machine gun when slow motion video of its function vs an actual machine gun and schematic drawings of its parts clearly show that it doesn’t meet the statutory definition. It’s like they just can’t help gobbling the ATFs balls and shaft, wiping their chin off, and then asking for more. It’s baffling. The reality is that the FRT shouldn't exist, because MGs shouldn't be illegal. But freedom is scary to some people I guess. Susie Soccer Mom wouldn’t be able to post her loving and encouraging memes with rainbows and sunsets on social media if millions of gun owners could lawfully enjoy their autos. Before I say what I'm about to say, I need to express my deep, core level hatred for the NFA, ATF, Hughes Amendment, gun laws, gun control groups, etc etc. BUT Maybe from a pragmatic standpoint, the way to overturn the Hughes amendment is to say "look, MG conversions are getting easier and easier. Anyone can do them at home with the right parts and a drill bit, or a bent up coat hanger, or a 3D printer. Most of these are from people who would love to own a legal MG, but can't because of the expense due to an arbitrary registry closure. Wouldn't you rather be getting $200 per MG, ATF, and wouldn't you rather have a registry of where these MGs are, Susie Facebitch?" Things like the FRT, Binary Triggers, Gat Cranks, Bumpstocks, etc, none of it should exist because MGs should be legal. You can't stop the signal, and all semi auto guns can be converted to full auto. It's trivial. The only other logical conclusion is to ban all semi auto firearms, which I'm sure is the goal, but ultimately I think is dead in the water already due to Heller and other decisions at the SC level. |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 4:09:11 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How many on this very site called them stupid range toys/NFA workarounds, and dogpiled anyone bitching about it? The only thing that might, might bring gun owners together would be feinswine and her "Mr and Mrs America, turn them all in moment". No more death of a thousand cuts/slow roll-ban them all and lets decide this shit once and for all. Either that or when the door to door confiscations start. Cherry picked confiscations of only certain gun owners and certain items (ex. FRT) won't do it. But a universal confiscation would hopefully result in dropping the in-fighting and instead establishing lines of communication with local support. Much like the military calls in an air strike or police for backup we'd be able to hit the panic button while a perimeter is being established for the cavalry to come in and fuck shit up. |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 4:20:19 PM EDT
[#37]
The whole thing is so strange, and I'm curious to see how the ATF responds.
Rare Breed is literally saying and doing what we have all wanted to say and do. "Will not comply, come take". But they set it up in way where they are also saying "BTW, I know and you know that the trigger is ALREADY in compliance, and you can't come take anyway because this is set up out of an attorneys office. Sorry, not sorry." Followed by "We look forward to seeing you in court....assuming you actually want this to go to court. K-byenow, hugs and smooches" This thread might end up more epic than a US contractor trying to catch a flight out of Kabul with the Taliban closing in. |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 4:21:34 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Either that or when the door to door confiscations start. Cherry picked confiscations of only certain gun owners and certain items (ex. FRT) won't do it. But a universal confiscation would hopefully result in dropping the in-fighting and instead establishing lines of communication with local support. Much like the military calls in an air strike or police for backup we'd be able to hit the panic button while a perimeter is being established for the cavalry to come in and fuck shit up. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How many on this very site called them stupid range toys/NFA workarounds, and dogpiled anyone bitching about it? The only thing that might, might bring gun owners together would be feinswine and her "Mr and Mrs America, turn them all in moment". No more death of a thousand cuts/slow roll-ban them all and lets decide this shit once and for all. Either that or when the door to door confiscations start. Cherry picked confiscations of only certain gun owners and certain items (ex. FRT) won't do it. But a universal confiscation would hopefully result in dropping the in-fighting and instead establishing lines of communication with local support. Much like the military calls in an air strike or police for backup we'd be able to hit the panic button while a perimeter is being established for the cavalry to come in and fuck shit up. Noble and Brave but no one is coming to help us. We're the minority and we're on our own. |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 4:23:11 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One possibility may be because bump stocks weren't machine guns either, and the same slow-mo vids didn't mean dick last time. So now maybe some feel like splitting hairs between gun nerds is going to save them from the tyranny. It won't. Could also be a soothing mechanism to prevent totally losing their shit . Instead of the hair splitting, my only wish would be for gun owners to unite in a one voice to shout "we won't comply" with this bullshit....or whatever action may be needed to emphasize the "no". Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don’t get why people keep trying to come up with some tortured explanation for why the FRT-15 is a machine gun when slow motion video of its function vs an actual machine gun and schematic drawings of its parts clearly show that it doesn’t meet the statutory definition. It’s like they just can’t help gobbling the ATFs balls and shaft, wiping their chin off, and then asking for more. It’s baffling. One possibility may be because bump stocks weren't machine guns either, and the same slow-mo vids didn't mean dick last time. So now maybe some feel like splitting hairs between gun nerds is going to save them from the tyranny. It won't. Could also be a soothing mechanism to prevent totally losing their shit . Instead of the hair splitting, my only wish would be for gun owners to unite in a one voice to shout "we won't comply" with this bullshit....or whatever action may be needed to emphasize the "no". I've never seen a bumpstock video. I did watch the FRT video posted earlier. I don't believe either fits the statutory definition of MG. But...on the FRT EVERYTHING in the firing mechanism moves (FUNCTIONS) between each shot including the finger on the trigger. Best I can tell with the bumpstock is that the finger never moves. I know that has nothing to do with the statute, it's just an observation. |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 4:26:40 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The whole thing is so strange, and I'm curious to see how the ATF responds. Rare Breed is literally saying and doing what we have all wanted to say and do. "Will not comply, come take". But they set it up in way where they are also saying "BTW, I know and you know that the trigger is ALREADY in compliance, and you can't come take anyway because this is set up out of an attorneys office. Sorry, not sorry." Followed by "We look forward to seeing you in court....assuming you actually want this to go to court. K-byenow, hugs and smooches" This thread might end up more epic than a US contractor trying to catch a flight out of Kabul with the Taliban closing in. This is another great point. The ATF clearly wanted Rare Breed to stop selling these on their own, because the ATF doesn't want to lose again in court re: what is and isn't a machine gun. The ATF knows the following: 1) The FRT-15 isn't a machine gun by the letter of the law 2) The tech in the FRT-15 is easily adaptable to other firearm designs 3) The proliferation of FRT tech could result in a defacto overturning of not just the Hughes amendment, but the restrictions on MGs in general 4) The ATF must stop this, but if it goes to court and they lose, like they just did in the 6th circuit, it's all over for them. So the ATF issues a scary sounding cease and desist, which has the primary goal of stopping Rare Breed, but the secondary goal of scaring anyone else out there working on a similar design, say for an AK-47 or a CZ scorpion. The C&D didn't work, and Rare Breed is positioned pretty much perfectly to fight this one out in court. Now the ATF has to choose to let this one go, or to chase it and potentially lose big. The way I see it, any possible end scenario is a victory: ATF backs away from rare breed and FRT is still available. ATF goes to court with rare breed and loses, FRT tech proliferates. ATF goes to court with rare breed and wins, we all know for sure now that the game is rigged so why even play by their rules. |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 4:29:42 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Noble and Brave but no one is coming to help us. We're the minority and we're on our own. I was referring to "we/us". I have 2-3 other "we/us" members just in my neighborhood alone and dozens throughout the area. |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 4:38:36 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've never seen a bumpstock video. I did watch the FRT video posted earlier. I don't believe either fits the statutory definition of MG. But...on the FRT EVERYTHING in the firing mechanism moves (FUNCTIONS) between each shot including the finger on the trigger. Best I can tell with the bumpstock is that the finger never moves. I know that has nothing to do with the statute, it's just an observation. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I don't get why people keep trying to come up with some tortured explanation for why the FRT-15 is a machine gun when slow motion video of its function vs an actual machine gun and schematic drawings of its parts clearly show that it doesn't meet the statutory definition. It's like they just can't help gobbling the ATFs balls and shaft, wiping their chin off, and then asking for more. It's baffling. One possibility may be because bump stocks weren't machine guns either, and the same slow-mo vids didn't mean dick last time. So now maybe some feel like splitting hairs between gun nerds is going to save them from the tyranny. It won't. Could also be a soothing mechanism to prevent totally losing their shit . Instead of the hair splitting, my only wish would be for gun owners to unite in a one voice to shout "we won't comply" with this bullshit....or whatever action may be needed to emphasize the "no". I've never seen a bumpstock video. I did watch the FRT video posted earlier. I don't believe either fits the statutory definition of MG. But...on the FRT EVERYTHING in the firing mechanism moves (FUNCTIONS) between each shot including the finger on the trigger. Best I can tell with the bumpstock is that the finger never moves. I know that has nothing to do with the statute, it's just an observation.  |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 4:39:01 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is another great point. The ATF clearly wanted Rare Breed to stop selling these on their own, because the ATF doesn't want to lose again in court re: what is and isn't a machine gun. The ATF knows the following: 1) The FRT-15 isn't a machine gun by the letter of the law 2) The tech in the FRT-15 is easily adaptable to other firearm designs 3) The proliferation of FRT tech could result in a defacto overturning of not just the Hughes amendment, but the restrictions on MGs in general 4) The ATF must stop this, but if it goes to court and they lose, like they just did in the 6th circuit, it's all over for them. So the ATF issues a scary sounding cease and desist, which has the primary goal of stopping Rare Breed, but the secondary goal of scaring anyone else out there working on a similar design, say for an AK-47 or a CZ scorpion. The C&D didn't work, and Rare Breed is positioned pretty much perfectly to fight this one out in court. Now the ATF has to choose to let this one go, or to chase it and potentially lose big. The way I see it, any possible end scenario is a victory: ATF backs away from rare breed and FRT is still available. ATF goes to court with rare breed and loses, FRT tech proliferates. ATF goes to court with rare breed and wins, we all know for sure now that the game is rigged so why even play by their rules. Yup...and I see #1 and #3 as the most likely scenarios. They either back-way, or they judge shop and rig the game (which at that point we all say F it). #2 should happen, but the ATF and big guv knows the domino effect from that outcome would be enormous. |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 4:50:09 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: FRT, Binary, Bumpstock Semi, all fire one shot per function of the trigger. The problem is AFT is using "single pull of the trigger", it removes the distinction between semi and auto. Function of trigger VS action of shooter. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I don't get why people keep trying to come up with some tortured explanation for why the FRT-15 is a machine gun when slow motion video of its function vs an actual machine gun and schematic drawings of its parts clearly show that it doesn't meet the statutory definition. It's like they just can't help gobbling the ATFs balls and shaft, wiping their chin off, and then asking for more. It's baffling. One possibility may be because bump stocks weren't machine guns either, and the same slow-mo vids didn't mean dick last time. So now maybe some feel like splitting hairs between gun nerds is going to save them from the tyranny. It won't. Could also be a soothing mechanism to prevent totally losing their shit . Instead of the hair splitting, my only wish would be for gun owners to unite in a one voice to shout "we won't comply" with this bullshit....or whatever action may be needed to emphasize the "no". I've never seen a bumpstock video. I did watch the FRT video posted earlier. I don't believe either fits the statutory definition of MG. But...on the FRT EVERYTHING in the firing mechanism moves (FUNCTIONS) between each shot including the finger on the trigger. Best I can tell with the bumpstock is that the finger never moves. I know that has nothing to do with the statute, it's just an observation. That's what I've pretty much surmised. I'm just trying contort more to get my head further up my a$$ to try to see their point of view. The only thing I've come up with so far is that the finger 'becomes' the trigger with the bumpstock because it stays stationary (doesn't move/function) as the firearm moves forward and backward. With the others, EVERYTHING in the mechanism including the finger has to move (function) between shots. The way the bumpstock reversal ruling sounds is like they put a spring in the bumpstock (much like the Akins) to force the mechanism forward. I'll admit that the Akins, from what I've read, wasn't much a of a stretch for their determination. The bumpstock MAY be a long stretch. With the FRT they seem to be just outright making stuff up. |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 5:13:58 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is another great point. The ATF clearly wanted Rare Breed to stop selling these on their own, because the ATF doesn't want to lose again in court re: what is and isn't a machine gun. The ATF knows the following: 1) The FRT-15 isn't a machine gun by the letter of the law 2) The tech in the FRT-15 is easily adaptable to other firearm designs 3) The proliferation of FRT tech could result in a defacto overturning of not just the Hughes amendment, but the restrictions on MGs in general 4) The ATF must stop this, but if it goes to court and they lose, like they just did in the 6th circuit, it's all over for them. So the ATF issues a scary sounding cease and desist, which has the primary goal of stopping Rare Breed, but the secondary goal of scaring anyone else out there working on a similar design, say for an AK-47 or a CZ scorpion. The C&D didn't work, and Rare Breed is positioned pretty much perfectly to fight this one out in court. Now the ATF has to choose to let this one go, or to chase it and potentially lose big. The way I see it, any possible end scenario is a victory: ATF backs away from rare breed and FRT is still available. ATF goes to court with rare breed and loses, FRT tech proliferates. ATF goes to court with rare breed and wins, we all know for sure now that the game is rigged so why even play by their rules. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The whole thing is so strange, and I'm curious to see how the ATF responds. Rare Breed is literally saying and doing what we have all wanted to say and do. "Will not comply, come take". But they set it up in way where they are also saying "BTW, I know and you know that the trigger is ALREADY in compliance, and you can't come take anyway because this is set up out of an attorneys office. Sorry, not sorry." Followed by "We look forward to seeing you in court....assuming you actually want this to go to court. K-byenow, hugs and smooches" This thread might end up more epic than a US contractor trying to catch a flight out of Kabul with the Taliban closing in. This is another great point. The ATF clearly wanted Rare Breed to stop selling these on their own, because the ATF doesn't want to lose again in court re: what is and isn't a machine gun. The ATF knows the following: 1) The FRT-15 isn't a machine gun by the letter of the law 2) The tech in the FRT-15 is easily adaptable to other firearm designs 3) The proliferation of FRT tech could result in a defacto overturning of not just the Hughes amendment, but the restrictions on MGs in general 4) The ATF must stop this, but if it goes to court and they lose, like they just did in the 6th circuit, it's all over for them. So the ATF issues a scary sounding cease and desist, which has the primary goal of stopping Rare Breed, but the secondary goal of scaring anyone else out there working on a similar design, say for an AK-47 or a CZ scorpion. The C&D didn't work, and Rare Breed is positioned pretty much perfectly to fight this one out in court. Now the ATF has to choose to let this one go, or to chase it and potentially lose big. The way I see it, any possible end scenario is a victory: ATF backs away from rare breed and FRT is still available. ATF goes to court with rare breed and loses, FRT tech proliferates. ATF goes to court with rare breed and wins, we all know for sure now that the game is rigged so why even play by their rules. I like your words. Keep talking. Please. |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 5:17:26 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I like your words. Keep talking. Please. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The whole thing is so strange, and I'm curious to see how the ATF responds. Rare Breed is literally saying and doing what we have all wanted to say and do. "Will not comply, come take". But they set it up in way where they are also saying "BTW, I know and you know that the trigger is ALREADY in compliance, and you can't come take anyway because this is set up out of an attorneys office. Sorry, not sorry." Followed by "We look forward to seeing you in court....assuming you actually want this to go to court. K-byenow, hugs and smooches" This thread might end up more epic than a US contractor trying to catch a flight out of Kabul with the Taliban closing in. This is another great point. The ATF clearly wanted Rare Breed to stop selling these on their own, because the ATF doesn't want to lose again in court re: what is and isn't a machine gun. The ATF knows the following: 1) The FRT-15 isn't a machine gun by the letter of the law 2) The tech in the FRT-15 is easily adaptable to other firearm designs 3) The proliferation of FRT tech could result in a defacto overturning of not just the Hughes amendment, but the restrictions on MGs in general 4) The ATF must stop this, but if it goes to court and they lose, like they just did in the 6th circuit, it's all over for them. So the ATF issues a scary sounding cease and desist, which has the primary goal of stopping Rare Breed, but the secondary goal of scaring anyone else out there working on a similar design, say for an AK-47 or a CZ scorpion. The C&D didn't work, and Rare Breed is positioned pretty much perfectly to fight this one out in court. Now the ATF has to choose to let this one go, or to chase it and potentially lose big. The way I see it, any possible end scenario is a victory: ATF backs away from rare breed and FRT is still available. ATF goes to court with rare breed and loses, FRT tech proliferates. ATF goes to court with rare breed and wins, we all know for sure now that the game is rigged so why even play by their rules. I like your words. Keep talking. Please. Almost there? 
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Posted: 8/18/2021 5:52:50 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hard to do when all the boomer fudds on the internet will drop the dime on you immediately if you say you aren't complying. Cue the retarded "hey there tough guy, if you're really not going to comply, you better post some pictures of your grenades, machineguns, and cocaine!" comments. |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 5:55:31 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cue the retarded "hey there tough guy, if you're really not going to comply, you better post some pictures of your grenades, machineguns, and cocaine!" comments. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Hard to do when all the boomer fudds on the internet will drop the dime on you immediately if you say you aren't complying. |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 6:04:15 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The whole thing is so strange, and I'm curious to see how the ATF responds. Rare Breed is literally saying and doing what we have all wanted to say and do. "Will not comply, come take". But they set it up in way where they are also saying "BTW, I know and you know that the trigger is ALREADY in compliance, and you can't come take anyway because this is set up out of an attorneys office. Sorry, not sorry." Followed by "We look forward to seeing you in court....assuming you actually want this to go to court. K-byenow, hugs and smooches" This thread might end up more epic than a US contractor trying to catch a flight out of Kabul with the Taliban closing in. Kevin Maxwell is a real American hero. |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 6:22:40 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I didn't realize hunter biden was a member here. Word is he's a 13'er
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