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I've thought of building a log home and if I did I would definitely take a class to learn how to do it right before I did.
The school that I looked at was the Great Lakes School of Log Building: http://www.schooloflogbuilding.com/location.htm I've been slowly buying the necessary tools over the years figuring that even if I never did build a log home the tools are still useful for lots of other stuff. I mean everyone should have a chainsaw and a good ax right? Anyway, then I heard from someone in the insurance business that log homes are a pain to get insured and it costs a lot more because if the house ever gets damaged it's a lot more expensive and labor intensive to fix. Say you get a fire and it burns a corner of the home, then you have to replace those entire two walls. At least that's what I was told, but I'm sure not an expert on log homes by any means. That info did kind of shy me away from a log home though. I've also considered doing an ICF home and just putting log cladding on the outside. Good luck and if you do build one be sure to post some progress pictures! -Sam Oh, by the way. Congrats on your engagement! |
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If you are thinking of building your own spend some time reading here: http://www.loghomebuilders.org/ I attended the two day class a number of years ago, it is well worth taking. The class was held at Skip Ellsworth's home in Monroe, WA (his log home was very impressive) The course is mostly lecture with slides and video, there was some hands on demonstration outside on the second day. They cover a lot of info in two days and explore all of the pros and cons. If you love log homes and are looking to build or buy your own I highly recommend you take the course. I'm familiar with that site and was really hoping someone would offer an opinion on it. I didn't want to bring it up in the OP because I figured (from what I've read) it could derail the thread. Anyway, I'd love to hear your thoughts on why the butt-and-pass method is best - oh, and how does Mr. Ellsworth recommend that you chink your logs? The butt-and-pass method is strong and relatively simple (as well as faster) when compared to some of the other methods. One of the main advantages of the butt-and-pass method is that you don't need to scribe and hand cut each log as you would if you went with a different method. For chinking, Mr. Ellsworth recommended using portland cement (I know it may sound a little strange but they cover all the How's and Why's in class). He advised against using modern synthetic chinking, arguing that it trapped moisture in the logs potentially leading to mold, rot and insect problems. Mr. Ellsworth taught that with large overhangs and proper design you can minimize many of the maintenance issues related to log homes. He argued log homes have existed long before synthetic chinking, modern sealers and those maintenance contracts the log kit companies always want you to sign. |
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Are cabins more expensive, more maintenance, more drafty, more buggy? On average, probably yes.
Do you do EVERYTHING in your life for efficiency? Place NO importance on quality of life and enjoyment? Do you have more than one AR15? why, they are expensive to feed and you don't NEED one. Cabins are a lot like Jeeps, especially the older ones. There are plenty of haters. They are too noisy, expensive, hard to drive, cold, hot, blah, blah, blah. They sure are fun as hell to drive and use. If you want to go with maintenance free value, build a stinking cinder block building with floor drains, stainless steel internal fixtures and a tin roof. Damn, that sounds like somewhere I'D LOVE to live Life's about living. Live a little. |
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Quoted: find the amish Gotta find the right ones. Not all Amish are created equal when it comes to home building. |
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My advice to you is for you to go lie down and wait until that urge passes. CJ Which urge? The ex-GF current Fiancee or the Log Cabin? Maybe both? |
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It is very simple. You google on "building a log cabin". There are places that sell plans. Others sell you the material. Hopefully, you aren't the kind of guy who just takes on a project. My next door neighbor is like that. He has now been putting the replacement roof on his house, by himself. He obtained a permit and has not passed final inspection. One whole g-d-n year!
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find the amish Gotta find the right ones. Not all Amish are created equal when it comes to home building. haha |
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If I were you, I'd build a bunker.
12" thick reinforced concrete. Should be enough to stop most small arm fire and burn resistant. Small, porthole type windows. Self contained ventilation, etc, etc. Maintain OPSEC.
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Cabins are a lot like Jeeps, especially the older ones. There are plenty of haters. They are too noisy, expensive, hard to drive, cold, hot, blah, blah, blah. They sure are fun as hell to drive and use. Life's about living. Live a little. You're speaking my language. Couldn't have a cabin without having a CJ-7 parked somewhere close by. Glad to see that url show up again. I'm enjoying perusing that site. Quoted:
Heres a way to keep the butt and pass locked in. http://www.fargohc.com/CabinBuilding/images/011_jpg.jpg We built this cabin in 1999, 20' x 40' with a second story sleeping loft, kept things pretty simple. It's an awesome place, I could live there ––- but don't. http://www.fargohc.com/CabinBuilding/images/003_jpg.jpg Gorgeous! Quoted:
advice on building a log cabin start cutting down trees Sorta thinking about just buying a couple acres of standing pine timber and cutting it myself. Not sure about tackling the whole log-peeling thing, though. Quoted:
Hopefully, you aren't the kind of guy who just takes on a project. This one would only be started after much thought and planning. |
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My FIL built his own log home in AK. He used three-sided logs, mostly because that was the simplest method.
If you plan to DIY, three-sided logs would be the simplest method by far. Have you considered a timber frame building instead of a log building? |
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Known about 3 people in this area that had bugs or issues with the wood which required the homes to be destroyed. No insurance money was paid and they were out that money. I would say NOOOOOOO. Why are there log homes and barns that have been around since the 1700s? Because they are made from chestnut logs, which bugs will not touch. Chestnut blight put paid to getting any more logs so.... |
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I lived in a log home for 7 years.
loved it. It was the most expensive home I ever lived in on a cost per sq ft. basis. to answer your question about logs. the best system, low maintenance, no drafts, no settling, are the laminated logs stacked directly on top of each other glued and lag bolted together with a but n pass corner. simple to build. solid as a rock. Voice of experience. That said If i were wanting to build a home today on some land I would build a steel sided steel roofed pole barn type house and finish it inside with t&g pine paneling. No kidding. With a crew, the shell goes up in a weekend and costs about 14 bucks a foot. Insulate and finish out the inside at your own pace. the wood interior is warm and attractive. The steel exterior is maintenance free for something like 30 years. If you are handy you could finish it out for less than 30 bucks a sq ft and forget the huge mortgage. Thats what I would do. |
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My elder architect friend calls them wastes of perfectly good trees.
Its kinda a hobby house. I would rather build a timberframe any day than a log cabin. You still get the nice beams, you get an very solid frame and it can be build tight. |
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That said If i were wanting to build a home today on some land I would build a steel sided steel roofed pole barn type house and finish it inside with t&g pine paneling. That is pretty much my plan for now. |
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I'll look for my pics. Most were taken in 2000-2001 and not digital, hopefully it will inspire you to push forward
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Check out Northeastern Log Homes and you will the solution to virtually every "problem" cited above. I do recommend porches all around, as they look better and also serve to protect the logs from the elements.
Chinking? Only done when constructing a Northeastern––never again. Drafts? NONE!! Windows/doors sticking or needing adjustments? NEVER! Rot? Not if you use the stain they sell––it comes from Europe, costs $50/gallon, and is the consistency of pudding. My cabin needs six gallons to coat, and needs to be done about every five years––but almost never under the porches. You can call me if you have any questions––send an IM. Oh, I heat the thing with 50 gallons of propane per year––1440 sq. ft. of living space––but I supplement a little with a wood stove. This is in north Missouri, and the temp is below zero right now. You can call me with any questions and you are welcome to visit if you ever get to Missouri (research of this type can't be beat). Oh, the main sales office for them is in Louisville, KY––perhaps not to far for you to travel. We built ours in 2001, and I am probably a better salesman than those who get paid to do so as we LOVE ours. We have had ZERO problems, both during construction, tech support, and since. Again, we LOVE the thing. |
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So the ex-GF (she's now advanced to fiancee status ) and I are beginning to think about moving. She lives in GA, I live in TN, and she wants to stay close to the parents. This means either building, buying, or renting another house. The market's great for buying, but I'm intrigued by the idea of renting while we build our own. I know that it's possible to build a log home cheaper than a traditional house, if you build carefully. What I do NOT know is how to decide between different log methods (butt/pass, canadian chinkless, scandanavian chinkless, square-cut logs, etc, etc) and would like some advice from anyone who has ever built or bought or lived in a log home as to which method to use. I'm starting from scratch here - any help or advice is appreciated. http://loghomelinks.com/ |
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Rot? Not if you use the stain they sell––it comes from Europe, costs $50/gallon, and is the consistency of pudding. My cabin needs six gallons to coat, and needs to be done about every five years––but almost never under the porches. Is that applied with a brush? |
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Rot? Not if you use the stain they sell––it comes from Europe, costs $50/gallon, and is the consistency of pudding. My cabin needs six gallons to coat, and needs to be done about every five years––but almost never under the porches. Is that applied with a brush? Yes––spraying is not recommended as you'd have to thin it too much. It goes fast though, as it's not messy at all. GREAT stuff. |
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Didn't see vertical method mentioned:
http://www.alaskacabin.net/ I don't know anything about it other than reading their booklet. |
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Some general advise for you. IF you have specific questions feel free to ask.
-Find out what materials are common and readily available in your area, as well as their working mechanical properties in relation to your specific desired application. Do this by going to forestry forum .com and asking to meet with sawmill owners in your area. There is a specific section on log and timber construction with a lot of pertinent information. -Find a source for your logs, which may be a sawmill owner you make contact with, or directly through a logger. Ask questions and don't be afraid about sounding stupid. This is where your contact with a local sawyer will come in handy. he will be able to advise you on your specific material acquisition needs. -Keep your plan simple if you goal is to keep your cost down. Use logs for your main level wall system and conventional framing for your gables/dormers/interior walls/ etc. Up here in the northwoods SIP's are nice way to do a roof system, Down by you, I would probably just frame it in as it will be more than adequate for your heating needs. -Unless you have a machine on site or plan on renting/buying one, keep your log sizes manageable. For milled logs, 8x8x16 ft. (in dry white pine mind you) is the absolute longest length I would consider moving by hand with two big guys. With the southern yellow pine you have down there, I would say 12 footers would be about the limit for a reasonable working length. -Scribers are nice looking, but are also time consuming and more susceptible to shrinkage issues than a milled log system. There are allot of ways to put together a milled wall package, Some of which I like, others not so much. Because the wall packages I typically do are usually on the larger size,(10x10 and 12 x12) I simply use a good application of PL400 or liquid nails and a Oly log hog screw every two feet on center. I have also used to good effect a combo of sill seal foam, 1 1/2 inch dowels, and oly log screws. -As has been mentioned, large overhangs(30 inch+) should be incorporated, as should a foundation system that places your bottom course of logs no closer than 16 inches from the ground. Because termites will likely be an issue down by you, I would shoot for at least two feet of masonry barrier before you start your courses. Like I said, PM if you have any other questions. Also to Vortex Sam, Let me know if you ever need anything log home related, I got you covered and I like to trade. |
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Quoted: Also to Vortex Sam, Let me know if you ever need anything log home related, I got you covered and I like to trade. Thanks, I will certainly keep you in mind if/when I decide to do a log home! -Sam |
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A little cold and snowy outside to be taking pictures... But anyway, this far north termites aren't an issue, and carpenter bees want to bore into the underside of surfaces, not walls. http://www.chernicoff.com/pictures/c1.jpg http://www.chernicoff.com/pictures/c2.jpg Nice lookin' house you got there |
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I'm overwhelmed at the offers of advice (and cabin visits!) here. Thanks, guys.
The fiancee and I really like the idea of building a garage/apartment first, then a cabin later. We're going to look further into that idea for now - maybe a block garage built into a hillside cutout, then a small cabin on top, then a home later (if the first venture doesn't kill us). Now..... how much do blocks cost (raw and installed)? |
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You can call me if you have any questions––send an IM. You can call me with any questions and you are welcome to visit if you ever get to Missouri (research of this type can't be beat). Make a note, folks: there isn't a better community of folks anywhere on the internet. Anywhere. I love this place. |
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I'm overwhelmed at the offers of advice (and cabin visits!) here. Thanks, guys. The fiancee and I really like the idea of building a garage/apartment first, then a cabin later. We're going to look further into that idea for now - maybe a block garage built into a hillside cutout, then a small cabin on top, then a home later (if the first venture doesn't kill us). Now..... how much do blocks cost (raw and installed)? Mine is built on a full basement, installed by professionals, and made from 8-foot high preformed wall panels over a poured concreate foundation. I recently priced a similar basement, with the inclusion of a basement level walkout, and it ran ~ $20K. I can't strees enough how much more livable this makes the entire cabin. No portion of the wood comes closer to the ground than about 18"; the enitre structure is built on top of the contcrete forms, with a steel I-beam support that runs the length of the basement in the center. You could build this first and basically create a finished basement with bath, wiith areas reserved for future fullhouse sized heating systems, mudroom, water, etc., and have a cozy, but usable home (think llarge studio apartment size after space is reserved for furure HVAC and stuff). Put an appropriate roof over it and you could build any house you wanted over this basement at some point in the future, knowing that the foundation of the structure was done right. |
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I lived in a log home for 7 years. loved it. It was the most expensive home I ever lived in on a cost per sq ft. basis. to answer your question about logs. the best system, low maintenance, no drafts, no settling, are the laminated logs stacked directly on top of each other glued and lag bolted together with a but n pass corner. simple to build. solid as a rock. Voice of experience. That said If i were wanting to build a home today on some land I would build a steel sided steel roofed pole barn type house and finish it inside with t&g pine paneling. No kidding. With a crew, the shell goes up in a weekend and costs about 14 bucks a foot. Insulate and finish out the inside at your own pace. the wood interior is warm and attractive. The steel exterior is maintenance free for something like 30 years. If you are handy you could finish it out for less than 30 bucks a sq ft and forget the huge mortgage. Thats what I would do. Reading my mind you are, always wanted to build a tin shack. |
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So the ex-GF (she's now advanced to fiancee status ) and I are beginning to think about moving. She lives in GA, I live in TN, and she wants to stay close to the parents. This means either building, buying, or renting another house. The market's great for buying, but I'm intrigued by the idea of renting while we build our own. I know that it's possible to build a log home cheaper than a traditional house, if you build carefully. What I do NOT know is how to decide between different log methods (butt/pass, canadian chinkless, scandanavian chinkless, square-cut logs, etc, etc) and would like some advice from anyone who has ever built or bought or lived in a log home as to which method to use. I'm starting from scratch here - any help or advice is appreciated. If you have Amish in the area, just pay them to build you something. Log cabins are considered a luxury by rural companies that make the kits, and they charge rich suburbanites like you thru the nose by selling the dream. |
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If I were you, I'd build a bunker. 12" thick reinforced concrete. Should be enough to stop most small arm fire and burn resistant. Small, porthole type windows. Self contained ventilation, etc, etc. Maintain OPSEC. I pretty much did this over the summer, and can tell you first hand that even if you/friends do 90% of the work, it is nearly impossible to maintain OPSEC. BTW, concrete and masonry work S-U-C-K-S even with extremely qualified help. I saved about 50% on the project cost even with all the mistakes made along the way and it still was not an experience I care to repeat. This "root cellar" is the last masonry project I will ever be involved with. |
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charge rich suburbanites like you I'm neither rich nor suburbanite. I'm a very rural person who just happens to make decent money with low overhead. The whole point of a cabin would be to maintain the 'low overhead' part. |
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I'd like to try one of these
And no I didnt read the whole thread, in case it's already been posted... |
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I'd like to try one of these And no I didnt read the whole thread, in case it's already been posted... Another great site. . |
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Advice: Google before you invite "Log Cabin Republicans" over.
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Woodpeckers love log cabins. No bugs, no "peckers" Ive not had a prob. Nor did my parents house, which was built 30 yrs ago. |
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Ok, you guys who built butt-and-pass cabins, what diameter logs did you use?
Is it possible to build a solid house with 12" or less logs - logs that start at 10"-12" and taper down to 6" or so? |
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Ok, you guys who built butt-and-pass cabins, what diameter logs did you use? Is it possible to build a solid house with 12" or less logs - logs that start at 10"-12" and taper down to 6" or so? Mine is made with milled logs––6" thick and 8" tall. There is no chinking required this way––just a gasket and proprietary caulk which never sets up hard and seals as the logs expand/contract. Northeastern starts with 24"-30" white pine logs, ages them for a year, then mills t&g pine from the outside, and ONE house log from the center of the log. Each log, where they cross on the corners, has the "bullseye" from the center of the log visible. This is the oldest, and therefore most stable, part of the log. They look good, seal completely, and have an R-value of 21 (IIRC). |
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