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Posted: 11/11/2021 5:34:02 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So no hands-on experience? The 3-part case is boring if 80k psi is boring. Boring if making the 6.5 Jesusmoor it's bitch. I'm not excited about the cartridge at all, but a lot of it (6.8 diameter) was set by the Army, IIRC. Yes, the 3 part case is boring. The entire Sig entry is. No, I've never held one. It's been listed at north of 8.5 lbs. It's also been listed as the heaviest among the 3 entries. That's why I say it's heavy. |
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Posted: 11/11/2021 5:35:20 PM EST
[#2]
Make something to defeat Level 4 armor, and they will just make thicker and heavier Level 5 armor.
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Posted: 11/11/2021 5:39:43 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The last pic. WTF is a "low toxicity" suppressor? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Joglee thread Sig SPEAR pics. https://soldiersystems.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/img_4594-scaled.jpg https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/757A8EC6-AB67-4AE8-9F1A-1E8A16DA8838.jpeg https://popularairsoft.com/sites/default/files/2021-02/tfb_sig_mcx_spear_ngsw.jpg https://laststandonzombieisland.files.wordpress.com/2021/05/sigs-mcx-spear-series-carbine-aims-to-be-the-armys-ngsw-rifle.jpg?w=640 The last pic. WTF is a "low toxicity" suppressor? My guess is less carbon blowback into the shooter’s face |
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Posted: 11/11/2021 5:55:26 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Another waste. We need to constantly keep innovating, but right now, pulling the trigger and making lead spit out at high velocity is about the extent of it no matter how you slice it. IMO, gun companies should be doing this on their own and then coming to the military and saying "look what we can do now!" The Textron gun is some 10yrs old now. Its not really that no one is innovating, its that no one is buying. There is no market to support machine gun development outside of the military, and they haven't strayed from the M249/M240 for 40yrs. Part of this problem is that making a better gun is not going to convince the military to move on, they want a significant performance boost too, which means new ammo. Until the military decides 5.56/7.62 are not good enough, they are not going to buy something else. At least with the NGSW project, the military is providing their own new bullet and power specs. So people can now develop something that the military thinks is a worthwhile upgrade. Of course the military is asking for .300winmag that feels like 5.56, so you get some weird guns with complex operating systems that make the AN-94 look simple. |
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Posted: 11/11/2021 6:06:15 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Make something to defeat Level 4 armor, and they will just make thicker and heavier Level 5 armor. Somewhat, though there is only so much armor you can add without over weighting a soldier. On the other hand, you only get this amazing armor penetrating performance with 'exotic' materials like tungsten. So there is also a limit to how much of this uber ammo you can really make/buy, especially considering China makes 90% of the worlds tungsten. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1009356/tungsten-production-worldwide-by-country/ All this to overcome armor that only covers a small part of a soldier in the first place. |
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Posted: 11/11/2021 6:26:31 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My guess is less carbon blowback into the shooter’s face Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Joglee thread Sig SPEAR pics. https://soldiersystems.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/img_4594-scaled.jpg https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/757A8EC6-AB67-4AE8-9F1A-1E8A16DA8838.jpeg https://popularairsoft.com/sites/default/files/2021-02/tfb_sig_mcx_spear_ngsw.jpg https://laststandonzombieisland.files.wordpress.com/2021/05/sigs-mcx-spear-series-carbine-aims-to-be-the-armys-ngsw-rifle.jpg?w=640 The last pic. WTF is a "low toxicity" suppressor? My guess is less carbon blowback into the shooter’s face Low toxicity suppressor means they reduced the masculinity levels by 20 deciballs |
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Posted: 11/11/2021 6:30:15 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My guess is less carbon blowback into the shooter’s face Yup, low-backpressure cans like Sig’s newer “flow-through” designs. Lead poisoning is almost entirely oral, ingested from lead contamination on your hands. But apparently, you can get poisoning from inhaling the excess gasses, unburnt powder, carbon, etc. IIRC, there have been some medical issues popping up among older SOF guys that were running suppressed weapons almost exclusively, starting in the early 2000’s. Those guys are hitting retirement, so their cumulative health problems are now getting reported to the VA. Kinda fucked up that’s how we find out about these kinds of issues, but it is what it is. |
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Posted: 11/11/2021 6:38:53 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Somewhat, though there is only so much armor you can add without over weighting a soldier. On the other hand, you only get this amazing armor penetrating performance with 'exotic' materials like tungsten. So there is also a limit to how much of this uber ammo you can really make/buy, especially considering China makes 90% of the worlds tungsten. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1009356/tungsten-production-worldwide-by-country/ All this to overcome armor that only covers a small part of a soldier in the first place. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Make something to defeat Level 4 armor, and they will just make thicker and heavier Level 5 armor. Somewhat, though there is only so much armor you can add without over weighting a soldier. On the other hand, you only get this amazing armor penetrating performance with 'exotic' materials like tungsten. So there is also a limit to how much of this uber ammo you can really make/buy, especially considering China makes 90% of the worlds tungsten. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1009356/tungsten-production-worldwide-by-country/ All this to overcome armor that only covers a small part of a soldier in the first place. I still find it amusing that tungsten is chosen as an alternative to depleted uranium to prevent people from developing cancer from being around it, or being shot with it, when tungsten is reportedly a far worse carcinogen in lab testing. |
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Posted: 11/11/2021 6:47:36 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I still find it amusing that tungsten is chosen as an alternative to depleted uranium to prevent people from developing cancer from being around it, or being shot with it, when tungsten is reportedly a far worse carcinogen in lab testing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Make something to defeat Level 4 armor, and they will just make thicker and heavier Level 5 armor. Somewhat, though there is only so much armor you can add without over weighting a soldier. On the other hand, you only get this amazing armor penetrating performance with 'exotic' materials like tungsten. So there is also a limit to how much of this uber ammo you can really make/buy, especially considering China makes 90% of the worlds tungsten. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1009356/tungsten-production-worldwide-by-country/ All this to overcome armor that only covers a small part of a soldier in the first place. I still find it amusing that tungsten is chosen as an alternative to depleted uranium to prevent people from developing cancer from being around it, or being shot with it, when tungsten is reportedly a far worse carcinogen in lab testing. I think the main draw of tungsten is that its not radioactive and you don't need a nuclear reactor to make it. |
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Posted: 11/11/2021 7:04:43 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There will be another combat uniform change before the M4 gets replaced. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I find it hilarious that people really think the M4 is getting replaced. There will be another combat uniform change before the M4 gets replaced.  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/11/2021 7:44:06 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: good. Sig makes great guns and there are lots of improvements on deck over the M4. just as long as they don’t choose that dumpster fire of a rifle from General Dynamics Also can’t wait for Colt to try to weasel in to that government tit again. “Hey by the way we had nothing to do with this but we’re the traditional manufacturer and will fail as a business without a USG welfare account, so we need to make the gun.” Is your name Rajesh? Are you from New Dehli? |
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Posted: 11/11/2021 8:38:06 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Heard this a while ago. I've also heard rumors that the SIG is horrifically inaccurate, and that their weight reduction claims are basically willful bullshit (they are comparing their new round to some .338 round not anything the rifle would actually replace). But then I've not seen any confirmation of those things. Hopefully the LSAT keeps going and keeps that ammo tech alive. The Textron LMG looked like it was basically the LSAT, but their rifle was wacky. The bullpup rifle and automatic rifle lok like shit but the True Velocity ammo is neat and should be applied to existing ammo if it ends up working as claimed. The SIG rifle and LMG look pretty darn good for their niche roles. None of them are remotely appropriate to replace the M16/M4. Replacing the M240 and/or M249 makes sense though. The SIG LMG (which is compatible with .308 with a barrel swap) is light enough to deserve a closer look on it's own alongside the LSAT, assuming it works well. NGSW from the get go has been comparing ammo weight to 7.62 NATO. It's never been compared to the weight of 5.56. |
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Posted: 11/11/2021 9:03:03 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: NGSW from the get go has been comparing ammo weight to 7.62 NATO. It's never been compared to the weight of 5.56. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Heard this a while ago. I've also heard rumors that the SIG is horrifically inaccurate, and that their weight reduction claims are basically willful bullshit (they are comparing their new round to some .338 round not anything the rifle would actually replace). But then I've not seen any confirmation of those things. Hopefully the LSAT keeps going and keeps that ammo tech alive. The Textron LMG looked like it was basically the LSAT, but their rifle was wacky. The bullpup rifle and automatic rifle lok like shit but the True Velocity ammo is neat and should be applied to existing ammo if it ends up working as claimed. The SIG rifle and LMG look pretty darn good for their niche roles. None of them are remotely appropriate to replace the M16/M4. Replacing the M240 and/or M249 makes sense though. The SIG LMG (which is compatible with .308 with a barrel swap) is light enough to deserve a closer look on it's own alongside the LSAT, assuming it works well. NGSW from the get go has been comparing ammo weight to 7.62 NATO. It's never been compared to the weight of 5.56. I think any projectile might do amazing things if you can push it with 80kPSI |
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Posted: 11/12/2021 12:19:34 PM EST
[#14]
If the comments are to be believed, the rumor came from a Q&A on YouTube with LMT. Video has since been removed.
https://soldiersystems.net/2021/11/10/true-velocity-acquires-lonestar-future-weapons/#comments |
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Posted: 11/18/2021 6:31:45 PM EST
[#15]
Update Pg 1. Confirmed Textron is gone due to weapon reliability issues and ammo stability issues.
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Posted: 11/18/2021 6:41:14 PM EST
[#16]
General Dynamics is still in. Those look the worst. Especially the LMG.
 Really comes down to the caliber. I do wonder how SIG's caliber stacks up to existing cartridges. |
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Posted: 11/18/2021 6:52:06 PM EST
[#17]
I don't know why so many people are so excited that a .mil that has an increasing and increasing likely hood of being used against us is getting carbines like this.
 The admin isn't on our side. The brass isn't on our side. The industry isn't on our side. The rank and file that Hannity jizzes himself thinking about is getting systematically replaced with adversaries. Just not feeling excited about it. Yay I have Level 4's. Might as well not be wearing anything.
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Posted: 11/18/2021 7:00:24 PM EST
[#18]
Oh, look! The British warships have new cannons that can shoot 100 yards farther and have even more devastating exploding shot!
Neat!
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Posted: 11/18/2021 7:07:29 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't know why so many people are so excited that a .mil that has an increasing and increasing likely hood of being used against us is getting carbines like this. The admin isn't on our side. The brass isn't on our side. The industry isn't on our side. The rank and file that Hannity jizzes himself thinking about is getting systematically replaced with adversaries. Just not feeling excited about it. Yay I have Level 4's. Might as well not be wearing anything.  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/18/2021 7:37:08 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The inaccurate one, I believe, is the Textron. They were having problems with the telescoping ammo and the jump to the lands. Just rumor mill that I read somewhere on the internets-supposedly a guy from the Army shooting team or something. The SPEAR's origination was in the CSASS, so I wouldn't think it would have accuracy problems. It’s not the spear with accuracy issues but the lmg, quoted at 8 Mia! The spear is heavy as shit. I think true velocity has the best round and it could be adapted to any platform. |
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Posted: 11/18/2021 7:39:49 PM EST
[#21]
Two new M4s in 6.5 grendel with redesigned bolts and magazines. 16 and 12.5 barrel lengths. Done.
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Posted: 11/18/2021 7:40:02 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: [b]  Sig does make good guns most of the time, it’s only the 15% that have serious qc, material, or design issues. I’d totally trust my life to a 85% success rate. Right? |
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