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Posted: 4/5/2017 8:18:46 AM EST
[#1]
Look at pictures of some knife attack victims who have been slashed and multiply that by some number.
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Posted: 4/5/2017 8:29:37 AM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
May your knife chip and shatter. Kharn |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 8:33:52 AM EST
[#3]
 Indiana Jones - Arab Swordsman Scene |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 8:40:56 AM EST
[#4]
To unprotected flesh and Bone? Pretty much. Soft body armor probably would not help against it much either, because that is what the katana was designed to deal with.
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Posted: 4/5/2017 8:48:07 AM EST
[#5]
So much information in this thread.
It is amazing how many different facts and opinions there are. As someone who knows nothing about swords, I am just going to ignore this entire thread and watch the history channel. |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 8:51:12 AM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I for some reason beyond my understanding bought a Paul Chen Katana after a swrod thread here on ARF It was as sharp as any benchmade I have owned . Thing kinda scared the shit out of me , plus I am not some werido so WTF was I going to do with a sword so I sold it in the EE Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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Have you ever cut yourself with a brand new benchmade? I'd imagine that a 3 foot knife that sharp could lop off a head pretty easy if you were skilled enough/ But I'm like you op I don't know shit about swords that's just a guess. It was as sharp as any benchmade I have owned . Thing kinda scared the shit out of me , plus I am not some werido so WTF was I going to do with a sword so I sold it in the EE |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 8:56:16 AM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So much information in this thread. It is amazing how many different facts and opinions there are. As someone who knows nothing about swords, I am just going to ignore this entire thread and watch the history channel. 
In this thread, sirensong is the person to listen to. |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 9:02:28 AM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
These types of threads typically have tons of opinions, and very few facts.
In this thread, sirensong is the person to listen to. |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 9:05:09 AM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just a brittle sword, not magical in any way. |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 9:05:28 AM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
i don't doubt it, but the time/distance equation is a harsh mistress. regardless of technique, the rapier user still had to translate twice as far just to clear the scabbard, and then has to reorient into the strike. meanwhile the katana cut begins before the kissaki has even left the scabbard. we're talking tenths of a second from stimulus to completed cut. iai is based on the presumption that the enemy has already taken the initiative, and the iaidoka has to catch up. to put it another way, no matter how fast jerry miculek can reload a revolver, a g19 is just a better choice when it comes to getting fire out quickly. jerry might even be faster with his 6gun than me with my g19, but it doesn't change the equipment imbalance. same applies here. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Thibeault does have some specific techniques to draw and thrust quickly, against an opponent with a faster drawing weapon. As you might expect they feature steps to the rear and/or lateral displacements. The draw and thrust are very fast, with practice, though. to put it another way, no matter how fast jerry miculek can reload a revolver, a g19 is just a better choice when it comes to getting fire out quickly. jerry might even be faster with his 6gun than me with my g19, but it doesn't change the equipment imbalance. same applies here. I will say that if Mr. Portuguese sailor was at that distance and suddenly went for his rapier, he made cardinal mistakes in judging his measure, and should have been a little closer, and gone for his dagger; or a little farther away if he wanted to pull the rapier. |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 9:06:49 AM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Swords aren't as sharp as knives. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Have you ever cut yourself with a brand new benchmade? I'd imagine that a 3 foot knife that sharp could lop off a head pretty easy if you were skilled enough/ But I'm like you op I don't know shit about swords that's just a guess. In fact, it's as sharp as most of my kitchen knives - and they're sharp. |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 9:11:56 AM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Edge Pro Apex. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
nice work. Love the mirror finish. What do you sharpen with? Apex 1, 2, 3, or 4 This would be for general knife/axe use, including Gerber pocket folder, Shun (thin profile) and Wusthof (thicker profile) kitchen knifes, and my axes and hatchets. |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 9:17:34 AM EST
[#13]
The biggest problem with this kind of discussion is far too many people think movie makers are honest authorities. They are not, they are entertainers first and above all else. Samurai don't fly or walk on trees except in movies and folklore. The truth is hacking people to pieces was a gruesome business that is out of fashion. Mankind has invented better ways to settle a score.
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Posted: 4/5/2017 9:26:45 AM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Much like the Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
These types of threads typically have tons of opinions, and very few facts.
In this thread, sirensong is the person to listen to.  Attached File |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 9:28:44 AM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The biggest problem with this kind of discussion is far too many people think movie makers are honest authorities. They are not, they are entertainers first and above all else. Samurai don't fly or walk on trees except in movies and folklore. The truth is hacking people to pieces was a gruesome business that is out of fashion. Mankind has invented better ways to settle a score. Then you get older and learn some people just need killin'. 10000 man paintball battles would be fun.... |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 9:37:05 AM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
you're right--my tone was overly caustic, and you didn't deserve that. please accept my apology. |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 9:38:24 AM EST
[#17]
These bamboo mats are equivalent to an arm or leg.
 Samurai Sword Test Cutting - Tameshigiri Also effectiveness of a Katana it very much dependent on technique. An amateur just chopping at stuff will not get the results in the video. |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 9:38:26 AM EST
[#18]
My .02:
I am a big fan of The Katana and Samuari, but they were not the only soldiers in the world with top weapons and fighting techniques. A high quality sword, be it a Katana, Long Sword, Gladius, Scimitar,Saber, etc, is a fine weapon to have. I would put money down that Japanese smiths in the Feudal era would praise, for example, a finely made Long Sword if they handled one. And, more importantly, it comes down to the training and practice of the person who is using the weapon. A highly trained and skilled Samuari vs a highly trained and skilled Knight with equal armor and their preferred weapon is a toss up. They both represent the height of their culture's warrior and are both a force on the battlefield. It would seriously come down to who is having a better day, is unlucky or being human, makes a big enough mistake to lose(which even the best can do). Plus, despite the image around the Sword, they were not the most common weapons on many battlefields. Swords, for the most part, were the weapons of the Nobility/Elite as they were expensive and required long hours of training and practice. Your average soldier was armed with bows, polearms and crushing weapons like hammers and maces. There were exceptions of course,but, for the most part, it was about training the average masses to fight well enough to win and survive. But..there is always that image of the Armored Knight and the Samuari in battle, sword drawn and ready to fight that will always be in the minds of people. It represents the "Alpha" warrior on the field, so we are drawn to it. |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 9:38:36 AM EST
[#19]
In this thread: Weeaboos.
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Posted: 4/5/2017 9:45:58 AM EST
[#20]
they are pretty buff in the documentary "Bleach"
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Posted: 4/5/2017 9:57:28 AM EST
[#21]
Wow! What a thread.
I will add from personal experience that the general public reacts badly to the presence of a sword - any sword. Says the man who was chased down and accosted in my classroom by campus security because I elected to bring a saber to my class so my students could have a better understanding of the weight, heft and balance of a real sword. Some people seem to believe that a sword will magically jump across the room and slash them to ribbons. |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 10:05:22 AM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You mean like cutting a person in half? Yup IIRC the used to test swords on prisoners, etc... place them back to back to see how much cut they could get. they COULD cut two people in half at once on a good swing. some prisoners would eat " rocks", hoping they would damage the sword as a fuck you to their captor / executioner. |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 10:36:04 AM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just a brittle sword, not magical in any way. 
They practiced on peasants and cadavers to see how many bodies they would go through with one swing/ or how many they could cut before dulling. There's a story about a peasant who said, "If I knew I would be chosen today, I would have eaten rocks for breakfast". (to damage the sword) Any good sword in skilled hands is easily capable of taking off limbs, heads, and very deep cuts into the trunk. Same sword in unskilled hands can still hack stuff but not nearly as efficiently. ETA. Just for the record: Samurai is a derogatory term meaning armed agent. They called themselves Bushi meaning (loosely) warrior. Hence the term bushido or warrior's way. |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 11:05:32 AM EST
[#24]
With a good blade and form you can easily cut a person in half
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Posted: 4/5/2017 11:20:02 AM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"In both weapons, cross sectional shape compensated for weaknesses while capitalizing on strengths. " So give me the longer sword with more hand protection. I'm at odds to his assertion that one blade is sharper. You haven't answered my question if you have used both for cutting. However, to be correct you would need to use swords made like they were historically. He's talking about real katanas and longswords and how they were made. Lots of good material at the ARMA site: http://www.thearma.org/essays.htm#.WOUZFU11pmM |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 11:21:05 AM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Even real samurai did a hell of a lot more real fighting with arrows and pole arms than swords. |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 11:23:57 AM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
obviously not
I have used them for Tameshigiri. I've also spared with them. Reach and hand protection trump the mythical Katana. I still enjoy Japanese blades fwiw I think it is much more effective to thrust vs slash, hence the European development of the Rapier. Also, hand protection is key. I'm not a Katana fanboi, but they were very effective at what they were good at. |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 11:27:46 AM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Funny thread. Are you guys saying they're brittle because you've seen the SS ones break on Home Shopping Network? Good katanas are not brittle, but they were meant as a slicing weapon (think the movie Predators fought scene) not as some broadsword. I've beat the hell out of mine with no ill effects. You must be rich, to beat the hell out of a real katana . . . |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 11:29:20 AM EST
[#29]
Good example of how fast a katana can be:
 JAMES WILLIAMS-BUGEI TAMESHIGIRI |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 11:34:59 AM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In the hands of Musashi, very deadly to his oppents. In my hands, very deadly to me.  He was an impressive dude, but likewise the samurai of the 1500s were perhaps not all uber warriors. |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 11:46:42 AM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Edge Pro Apex. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
nice work. Love the mirror finish. What do you sharpen with? |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 11:51:24 AM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
people still keep using this trope, as though hollywood handles all other medieval weapons realistically, and has a special category just for the katana. |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 11:56:00 AM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't dispute any of that, it was just an observation. Not a lot of copies of Thibault floating around. I will say that if Mr. Portuguese sailor was at that distance and suddenly went for his rapier, he made cardinal mistakes in judging his measure, and should have been a little closer, and gone for his dagger; or a little farther away if he wanted to pull the rapier. what I've heard was that the Portuguese swordsmen had the advantage when it started with both weapons out but not when it started from the draw. Seems plausible but it would be nice to see facts. |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 12:02:42 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bullshit. Your ignorance is showing. That is absolutely true. A sharp edge is a thin edge, a thin edge is weak. Too weak for sword use. A sword relies on overall geometry and leverage to cut moreso than the condition of its edge. An "unsharpened" medieval longsword will still do plenty of cutting and cleaving. |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 12:05:06 PM EST
[#35]
Has the quality changed from say Pre WW2?
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Posted: 4/5/2017 12:08:21 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Has the quality changed from say Pre WW2? I read about a Japanese soldier in WW2 who was executing someone just about every day with his sword. His first didn't go well and he damaged the blade. |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 12:13:17 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I understand they were using machine made blades quite a bit during WW2. I read about a Japanese soldier in WW2 who was executing someone just about every day with his sword. His first didn't go well and he damaged the blade. Gendaito are not highly regarded. |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 12:15:10 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryThat vijeo eventually led me to this one:
 Will Does Tameshigiri - Real Tatami Cutting - THANK YOU KYLE! |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 12:24:42 PM EST
[#39]
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Posted: 4/5/2017 12:26:48 PM EST
[#40]
 Cold Steel - Warrior Series Japanese Swords https://youtu.be/k8qQZLtIuiA  Cold Steel - Hand and a Half Sword & Dagger https://youtu.be/06DofQuxPSw |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 12:27:18 PM EST
[#41]
Lot of choper8ors in this motherfucker
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Posted: 4/5/2017 12:27:51 PM EST
[#42]
Where do these guys buy all of these bamboo mats to cut?
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Posted: 4/5/2017 12:28:50 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When I was very young I thought the world would be a better place if countries could just settle the score on some giant paintball field with epic battles of paintball with teams of 10,000 or something. Then you get older and learn some people just need killin'. 10000 man paintball battles would be fun.... There's a point at which the game changes dramatically. It depends on the field, how much area is in play, how good the cover is, and so on... but basically it turns from a squad level game to a "company" level. With the typical rec game of appx. 20 people or fewer on each side, individual plays are needed, encouraged, and rewarded. In a 10-man game, for example, if you push the snake and get a 3-for-1, that's a huge advantage for your team. That individual play is enough to probably win that game for your team. But when there's 100+ people on each side, that same 3-for-1 play just means you're eliminated and can no longer hold your position. That could be good or bad, depending on how much your position was needed, and how valuable the position(s) you eliminated were. The game "economy" of a large scale event is no longer about man strength. It becomes about positional strength, and which side can cover their sectors the best. Focusing fire on enemy positions while being relatively secure in your own positions is what wins big games. But that doesn't win small games. Plays and aggression win small games. Also, you cannot move under fire as an individual in a big game. If you move to take a position, you gotta bring people with you, and you gotta move together. Some of you will be hit. To take a position with 5 people means you really need to start out with 10 or 20. Scenario and big game play is completely different. Not really better or worse, it's all fun, but very, very different. A 20,000-man game would be... I don't even know how you'd do that, logistically... but it'd be something. |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 12:35:05 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryOh man that was pretty good  
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Posted: 4/5/2017 12:37:09 PM EST
[#45]
Holy fuck I love these threads. I wish there was a sword/knife thread every day.
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Posted: 4/5/2017 12:40:33 PM EST
[#46]
Don't forget that firearms were banned in Japan, so sword development continued there long after European nations had stopped.
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Posted: 4/5/2017 12:42:51 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd like some verified Portuguese accounts. I've heard claims but no actual history. what I've heard was that the Portuguese swordsmen had the advantage when it started with both weapons out but not when it started from the draw. Seems plausible but it would be nice to see facts. anyway, if i didn't post this in the last thread, here is an extremely good blog post with tons of excellent information handled with a scholarly degree of circumspection. https://medievalswordmanship.wordpress.com/2014/05/08/european-vs-japanese-swordsmen-historical-encounters-in-the-16th-19th-centuries/ |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 12:49:15 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't forget that firearms were banned in Japan, so sword development continued there long after European nations had stopped. From what I understand, the main innovation in going from tachi to katana was in the wearing of the sword which happened around the 1400s. The European rapier was a 1500s weapon, so European designs continued to improve after the katana was settled on. |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 12:55:20 PM EST
[#49]
I read the whole thread but skimmed some.
Anyone claiming a traditionally made Japanese sword is superior to a sword of the same profile made with modern steel? I love those guys. |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 12:57:40 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would say that Euro sword development was much greater. Japan went from tachi to katana. Excellent swords, but nowhere as much variation as Europe. From what I understand, the main innovation in going from tachi to katana was in the wearing of the sword which happened around the 1400s. The European rapier was a 1500s weapon, so European designs continued to improve after the katana was settled on. European sword advancement lasted through the Renaissance. Some of my favorite forms showed up during that time. When longswords evolved towards thrusting they lost some cutting ability but then as time went one some very excellent cutting AND thrusting swords appeared. |
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