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Link Posted: 4/17/2019 6:29:39 PM EDT
[#1]
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Quoted:
A million bucks will pay your mortgage and taxes on a shitty 220k falling apart house over the course of 30 years here.

You may have some left to buy a Nice 2002 corolla after.
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One of the nice things about living on liquid assets, you can move anywhere in the world and geo-arbitrage.
Link Posted: 4/17/2019 6:30:38 PM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:

that actually brings up a good point, though.

if a property actually doesn't generate income (unlike say a farm or rent).. should it count towards net worth?

bob owns his house, appraised at 1 Mil.  he never sells or rents out, he just has a asset that theoretically is worth 1 Mil in the current market.  is he a millionaire, despite having only a meager balance in his account? plenty of wealthy-appearing folks are one bad day away from financial ruin, and being house-poor is a common reason.

It may not be a popular opinion here, but I think an asset that does not generate real income should not be considered a part of of net worth.
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Silly. To many confuse wealth w income. Its not unpopular its just incorrect.

If you have a salable asset, its part of you net worth calc. I buy and sell lots in new subdivisions occasionally. They don't generate income. The ones I own currently have appreciated 30-35% - better be part of of my net worth because the bank lent on them.

Lets say a pile of specie, a paid off vacation home, a mint early vintage Rover or a Ma-Deuce - not part of my net Hell i bet a good 10% of Dick Soloves net was wrapped up in his Roller collection. Yea income is great, no bearing on wealth.
Link Posted: 4/17/2019 6:31:51 PM EDT
[#3]
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Quoted:
One of the nice things about living on liquid assets, you can move anywhere in the world and geo-arbitrage.
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Quoted:
A million bucks will pay your mortgage and taxes on a shitty 220k falling apart house over the course of 30 years here.

You may have some left to buy a Nice 2002 corolla after.
One of the nice things about living on liquid assets, you can move anywhere in the world and geo-arbitrage.
I was just thinking the locale is the issue
Link Posted: 4/17/2019 7:08:46 PM EDT
[#4]
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unless you already HAVE a million in the bank, yes it is, dude.  a million is a lot to most people.  when most Americans dont even have 3 months of expenses saved up, a cool mil is a ton.

i swear, this place has lost all sense of perspective and objectivity.

edit:  i get where you're coming from, with inflation and all... but to be independently wealthy by achieving a net worth where you can live off the returns is rapidly becoming more and more difficult for the average person.
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Millionaires are in the lead.

GD is so full of shit, lol.
A million isn't all that much. Multi-millions is a different story.
unless you already HAVE a million in the bank, yes it is, dude.  a million is a lot to most people.  when most Americans dont even have 3 months of expenses saved up, a cool mil is a ton.

i swear, this place has lost all sense of perspective and objectivity.

edit:  i get where you're coming from, with inflation and all... but to be independently wealthy by achieving a net worth where you can live off the returns is rapidly becoming more and more difficult for the average person.
Not uncommon at all. People refuse to believe its achievable so they fail to "sacrifice" and work at it.

How Many Millionaires are There in the United States?

We estimate that there are 14,814,453 millionaires in the United States. Our estimate puts the millionaire net worth goal at the 88.24% wealth bracket in the US in 2016, or 11.76% of all households.

How Many Multimillionaires Are There in the United States? More than $2 or $3 Million?

Our estimate is 7,647,278 American households have $2 million or more, and 4,665,039 households have $3,000,000 or more in net worth. $2 million or more in net worth covers roughly 6.07% of households, while $3 million or more covers 3.70%.

Reversing those, you get the 93.93% and 96.30% wealth percentiles.
https://dqydj.com/how-many-millionaires-decamillionaires-america/
Link Posted: 4/17/2019 7:14:59 PM EDT
[#5]
I'm not motivated by how big my bank account is, but I'd like to make a comfortable middle class living while raising my kids with strong conservative values.

Im well on my way to that.

Ive managed and grown sales based companies well into the million+ range, but decided that the personal investment out of my health (via stress, lack of sleep, etc.) wasn't worth it.  More power to the folks that want to do it.
Link Posted: 4/17/2019 7:24:03 PM EDT
[#6]
I dont want to live past 65. So no.
Link Posted: 4/17/2019 7:43:36 PM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:

unless you already HAVE a million in the bank, yes it is, dude.  a million is a lot to most people.  when most Americans dont even have 3 months of expenses saved up, a cool mil is a ton.

i swear, this place has lost all sense of perspective and objectivity.

edit:  i get where you're coming from, with inflation and all... but to be independently wealthy by achieving a net worth where you can live off the returns is rapidly becoming more and more difficult for the average person.
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You are correct of course - most Americans have very little saved and are often living check-to-check.

If that situation hasn't changed by the time they are in their mid to late 30s, it probably won't, ever, unless they get lucky.   Barring such luck, those people will probably never fully retire or will live in or near poverty when they do retire, unless they have some form of pension to supplement SS. Sure, $1MM saved is a lot to those people.  So would be $50K.  They'll likely have neither.  Perhaps that's on them, perhaps it's not, but it is what it is.

When people here say $1MM isn't enough to support retirement, they are most likely referring to a target amount for that smaller percentage of people who are actively saving for retirement.

As noted previously, if you plan to live off the (conservative) investment performance of your retirement savings, you will be living on perhaps $40K annually before taxes and healthcare expenses, which will almost certainly be increasing at the same time you are losing employer-sponsored healthcare.  And that's the amount you will get if you don't reinvest some of your earnings to keep pace with increased cost of living.  Of course, you could pull out more and slowly burn down the principal, acknowledging you won't live forever, but who likes to plan based on when they think they'll die?

Still, $40K plus SS probably seems like a decent amount to many Americans, but again, most of those folks have almost nothing saved.  It likely does not seem like a lot to people who have been earning enough to support saving a decent amount for retirement and who have been doing so for decades.  Many of those folks likely hope to have a greater income to support an active retirement lifestyle that spans many golden years.  And it's that expectation for a specific lifestyle that keeps them working and saving.  Hell, perhaps like many here, my wife and I could quit our jobs and retire tomorrow if we wanted to go live in a trailer in WV.  That's not our retirement dream, so we keep working.  To someone living in a trailer in WV, we must look like idiots.  

But I'm not Ric Edelman, so I could also be full of shit.
Link Posted: 4/17/2019 8:10:34 PM EDT
[#8]
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Yeah, I wouldn't want to retire with less than a million.  A decent pension could offset that need a bit.
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and what's a "decent" pension?
Link Posted: 4/17/2019 8:11:33 PM EDT
[#9]
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How much house does that buy?
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1100 sq ft no garage, less than an acre.
Link Posted: 4/17/2019 8:14:35 PM EDT
[#10]
It was pointed out to me that I B.  But then again, a million today won't buy half of what a million would in 1960.  It doesn't mean squat anymore.
Link Posted: 4/17/2019 8:16:11 PM EDT
[#11]
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It is more difficult than it used to be, but for most of history the retirement choice was scrimping or working forever. American decline, seen optimistically, is a return to normality.
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No, it is easier than ever.
Link Posted: 4/17/2019 8:42:16 PM EDT
[#12]
Based on where we are at, I should hit my first $1m around 44. Wife is a little behind that and should around 48 if I remembering my numbers right.
Link Posted: 4/17/2019 8:44:04 PM EDT
[#13]
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No, it is easier than ever.
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I am in the easier than ever camp as well.

In my lifetime the mechanics of wealth accumulation have become much easier.

Doesn't mean that it is easy, but it is easier than what it used to be.
Link Posted: 4/17/2019 8:46:53 PM EDT
[#14]
We're pretty close to there, depending on what you count or don't count.

We're both 47, Dual Income - No Kids.

My wife works at Wal-Mart, and has for 25 years.  I'm active duty, with almost 29 years in.  I'll retire from active duty next year, and my pension will be ~65k/year.  I hope to get a government job closely related to the field I'm in.  If not, no worries.

We have roughly 750k in retirement (401k/Roth/TSP) that we can't touch without penalty for ten years or so, 100k in taxable, 25k in the bank, and 125k equity in the house.

But, we're fixing to build a house on land we own for about 330, and we'll start all over.

I think the biggest mistake people make (myself included), is not starting early.  I didn't start investing until 2003.  If we'd started earlier, we'd probably have "F-You" money.

As a REAL example, with REAL money - we invested ~$2600 in a mutual fund (PRGFX) in 2003, and added a little to it over time until our net investment was ~5300 in 2009.  Reinvested all dividends.

Today it's worth $34,000.

So, I can buy a new truck with the $5000 I invested 16 years ago.

Time in the market, not timing the market.
Link Posted: 4/17/2019 8:49:41 PM EDT
[#15]
ABC - How to be a millionaire ? - 1985
Link Posted: 4/17/2019 8:54:59 PM EDT
[#16]
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I'm working hard to have a comfortable retirement.
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This. By definition will require my being worth well more than a million.
Link Posted: 4/17/2019 9:08:43 PM EDT
[#17]
Not a millionaire but I do have enough to be happy. I will eventually be a millionaire but it isn't a big thing for me.
OP, you need to define millionaire. Is it cash? Assets? Do pensions count as assets? Do company assets count? Do unrealized profits count? It can get complex.
Link Posted: 4/17/2019 10:13:34 PM EDT
[#18]
Interesting that a number is so different to many. I have x amount stashed away and I’m 50. Decided to quit working day to day somewhat and practically walked away from a profitable business. I’m building a house on my farm, I have a few rental properties and the wife will be done with her full time job in 4 years but has a solid flexible part time business started. I plan on driving a school bus for our insurance needs(offsets a few more trips a year for us). We love to garden and can etc. and I’m putting a 2 acre hops yard in too. I don’t really care about money anymore as I know that I live on borrowed time now. This is “retirement” for a “millionaire”, the flexibility of not being tied down to a normal job is awesome.  Life is good and I haven’t been happier in a decade.
Link Posted: 4/17/2019 10:26:16 PM EDT
[#19]
I am doing decent with my retirement plans so far.  Been a few SNAFUS along the way though.

One thing I keep in mind too is something a high school friend told me about 15 years ago.  He lost his wife to leukemia when she was in her mid 20's. One day he said "you're not promised tomorrow, you gotta think about the future, but go do things while you're young."  It stuck with me knowing what he went through.
Link Posted: 4/17/2019 10:35:40 PM EDT
[#20]
I'm in my early 50s.  I passed it a few years back, but I couldn't retire right now without cutting back significantly on my budget.   If I were 60, it would be different, but carrying private health insurance and getting the kids through college makes it a lot tighter than I would like for right now.
Link Posted: 4/17/2019 10:35:57 PM EDT
[#21]
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Millionaire is a pretty wide range (1M-999M). My wife (age 45) & I (age 50) broke into this group in the last few years. We have two professional jobs, so we're well off (as long as we keep working), but we don't feel rich. We certainly don't feel like we have enough set aside to retire yet. Being a millionaire isn't what it used to be (and isn't as hard to attain as it used to be). A net worth of 1M isn't remotely close to a net worth of 25M, much less 250M. Lifestyles and security will vary greatly depending on how far you penetrate the millionaire range.
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This is pretty spot on. In some areas of the country like CO, CA, or NYC you really don’t impress a lot of people with $1M. It doesn’t go as far as you’d think, a decent house where I live is around half a million.
Link Posted: 4/17/2019 10:40:00 PM EDT
[#22]
No I just want to pay off my house and live on s minimal income.
Link Posted: 4/17/2019 10:44:19 PM EDT
[#23]
If you want me to be your sugar daddy, I'm definitely gonna need some pics.  Recent.
Link Posted: 4/17/2019 10:48:31 PM EDT
[#24]
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I wouldn't mind it but the career paths it would take to get there are not something that interest me.

I'm moving towards a nice life and a solid retirement. I don't value just money itself enough to sacrifice other portions of my life in pursuit of it.
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I just want to enjoy my short time here.
Life as a Career Firefighter is not the track to financial wealth

I be never been driven by money, at least not enough to make sacrifices.
Link Posted: 4/17/2019 10:57:29 PM EDT
[#25]
Of course I want to be a millionaire.  Not enough to change my life to pursue that.  I have a good paying job and save a lot, I'm not going to spend even more of my life than I already do working to become make more or hatch some pie-in-the-sky scheme.
Link Posted: 4/18/2019 2:44:02 PM EDT
[#26]
Despite a divorce and the crash of 2009 I have a net worth over a million and a half dollars and no debt going into retirement. Working for 40 years in a good career straight out of college, saving in the company predecessor to 401k from day one, not smoking, not drinking much or doing drugs certainly helps.
I could have had a lot more if it weren't for one bad real estate choice that went south in 2009 and spending over $300,000 on my kids private school education (No those weren't bribes to rowing coaches). Because when I was trying to keep the real estate investment afloat I wasn't saving anything for retirement and was selling off land to try to save it. And while I was writing $50,000 tuition checks to the kids prep school when they were both in high school at the same time, I wasn't saving much either. Luckily college didn't cost anything out of pocket, Bright Futures Scholarships and Florida Prepaid are a wonderful thing.

It has always amazed me how much people waste on cigarettes alone. Do the math on what a carton a week costs and what that put into an IRA or 401K with a company match would add up to in 40 years. Add a case or two of beer a week let alone blowing your paycheck on Friday night drinking ( yeah I did some of that when I was chasing skirt)
and ir really adds up fast.
Link Posted: 4/18/2019 3:05:42 PM EDT
[#27]
All it takes is disciplined saving.  Start as young as you can.  Time is your friend.

Let the power of compound interest work for you. Be prepared to see your investments go up and down, sometimes to a degree that scares you.  LONG TERM is your state of mind. Risk can be your friend.

There's a BIG difference between saving 1 million dollars out of your paycheck and making your saved money make you a millionaire.
Link Posted: 4/18/2019 3:19:07 PM EDT
[#28]
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All it takes is disciplined saving.  Start as young as you can.  Time is your friend.

Let the power of compound interest work for you. Be prepared to see your investments go up and down, sometimes to a degree that scares you.  LONG TERM is your state of mind. Risk can be your friend.

There's a BIG difference between saving 1 million dollars out of your paycheck and making your saved money make you a millionaire.
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Damn right- just saving wages in jars buried in your backyard is stupid.

I send a bunch of Ben Franklins out into the world to find some more Ben Franklins and come back to my house for a Franklin family reunion. Then we repeat the process. There are no freeloading Franklins at my house... they have a job to do.
Link Posted: 4/18/2019 3:28:18 PM EDT
[#29]
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1100 sq ft no garage, less than an acre.
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Link Posted: 4/18/2019 4:21:51 PM EDT
[#30]
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the figure thrown about is 4 percent of what you have after retirement per year. 4 percent of a million dollars is 40k. i assume you have social security or similar. how much is that a year and when added to that 40k, is it enough?. say you get 30,000 a year from ss plus 40k from your 'milion'. thats 70k a year. thats not peanuts, but it aint high cotton either.
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Absolutely.  But a million in liquid assets puts you in the top 5% of US households.  It's generally enough to live off of for the rest of your life - as long as you're willing to live cheap.
the figure thrown about is 4 percent of what you have after retirement per year. 4 percent of a million dollars is 40k. i assume you have social security or similar. how much is that a year and when added to that 40k, is it enough?. say you get 30,000 a year from ss plus 40k from your 'milion'. thats 70k a year. thats not peanuts, but it aint high cotton either.
Well almost $3,000 a month from SS, plus another $1,000 a month from a small pension from my first employer, So $48,000/year. And then there is the wife. She will get another $36,000 from SS and about $60,000 from her pension =$144,000/year , without even touching the 4% on the IRA/401K. But of course at age 70 you have to start taking mandatory distributions.  Of course that's all before taxes.
It pays to have a wife who had a job that paid as well , if not better, as yours did.
Link Posted: 4/18/2019 4:39:30 PM EDT
[#31]
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A millionaire (if we're talking net worth) is almost a "need-to-be" imperative nowadays as people live longer, have homes valued a lot more, with pressure to prepare for retirement more than before.

Large or expensive homes require more continued investment over time in order to be maintained.

Nursing home or managed care facilities can run $4000/month and up if you find a decent one with openings.

If you don't have a net worth of $1 million around the time of retirement in most suburbs in the US, you're going to be in a precarious position in your sunset years.

I remember when $100,000 homes were considered mansions, Uber-wealthy class, and a really nice home went for $30-$40k.

Now, a $100k property is a burned-down house maybe in the suburbs, or one that requires substantial work to the tune of $150-$200k just to get it to code and livable.

Look at median and average home sale prices from JAN 2000- DEC 2018:

https://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2019/3/7/saupload_US-median-and-average-new-home-sale-prices-200001-201812.png

How much do you need in an IRA to take care of living expenses, properly taxes, and contingencies?

Do you plan to purchase more vehicles?

What's your plan for assisted living?

If your plan is to hope of the best and not plan for any of this, live paycheck to paycheck along with consumer debt and maxed-out auto loans and a mortgage, there is no elasticity in your plan for problems to arise and you risk being devastated if a major change (life) happens.
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Luckily New homes are not the only game in town. We bought about a year and a half ago. 3BR 2BA 2 car Garage on 3 acres plus a 1 br MIL Apt with 2nd kitchen, LR and laundry for $197,000. It was a 10 year old foreclosure that needed new flooring and some cosmetic work. A new house would have cost more than twice that in the same neighborhood.
Link Posted: 4/18/2019 5:47:15 PM EDT
[#32]
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Quoted:
Despite a divorce and the crash of 2009 I have a net worth over a million and a half dollars and no debt going into retirement. Working for 40 years in a good career straight out of college, saving in the company predecessor to 401k from day one, not smoking, not drinking much or doing drugs certainly helps.
I could have had a lot more if it weren't for one bad real estate choice that went south in 2009 and spending over $300,000 on my kids private school education (No those weren't bribes to rowing coaches). Because when I was trying to keep the real estate investment afloat I wasn't saving anything for retirement and was selling off land to try to save it. And while I was writing $50,000 tuition checks to the kids prep school when they were both in high school at the same time, I wasn't saving much either. Luckily college didn't cost anything out of pocket, Bright Futures Scholarships and Florida Prepaid are a wonderful thing.

It has always amazed me how much people waste on cigarettes alone. Do the math on what a carton a week costs and what that put into an IRA or 401K with a company match would add up to in 40 years. Add a case or two of beer a week let alone blowing your paycheck on Friday night drinking ( yeah I did some of that when I was chasing skirt)
and ir really adds up fast.
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'$166/month @ 8% for 45 years - tax sheltered - come see me next week we need to get some things set up'

That was in a envelope my grandfather gave me when I graduated along with tuition for Catholic HS I didn't use and a gift. He made me throw in a couple grand to top off the start.

Pretty simple, the number was the IRA limit (and about all I could afford). Wasn't always easy, Vanguards done their job.

Had other options last 18 years (SEP) which I've maxed, do some real estate, have some other stuff (team equity, other investments) so I'll be ok. As I said earlier, my major concerns been building an income stream so I could walk if I needed. That's had an effect on my present and future net worth, but it was absolutely necessary.

But it all started when I realized it was possible because it was laid out in front of me. Trying to instill and educate my kids. Made my kids Roth up all the earnings to date so they'll have a much better head start than I did, but that creates issues as well. They'll likely need it, but they're all more sophisticated than I was at that age so I'm encouraged.

It's never too late - $167k start $416/month (again IRA limit) @ 8% over 20 gets you pretty close too.
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