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Link Posted: 4/14/2022 10:17:39 AM EST
[#1]
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Nope.  But I am against fake news.

A 911 Turbo did not even make 400hp in 92.   I was doubting it so I went to look and sure enough, it is quite bit less.

Maybe compare displacement naturally aspirated to displacement to start.   And not try to inflate the impressiveness of the turbo which actually wasn't all that impressive.


911 may have been a hell of a lot more refined than a Viper but power/torque curve is not even close even if you throw the 911 turbo in there.     Do not start trying to offer examples of modified 911s because Vipers have been getting aftermarket boost too.
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I like going fast. Doesn't matter how.

i shoot for 120hp per cylinder or 250hp per liter out of my 90s cars. Stock block, head and tranny.
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 10:19:12 AM EST
[#2]
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Quoted:



So was a 2.3l 4 banger ford.

I dont get your point...

Multiply displacement times 4 and call the hp a direct relationship to displacement and compare to viper engine...

For the time period everything was pretty close...
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How about BMW then? The standard 4cyl M3 was making almost 100hp/l in 1991.



So was a 2.3l 4 banger ford.

I dont get your point...

Multiply displacement times 4 and call the hp a direct relationship to displacement and compare to viper engine...

For the time period everything was pretty close...


They did except it was 3x and they ended up with a 6L v12 making over 600hp.
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 10:26:02 AM EST
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Nope.  But I am against fake news.

A 911 Turbo did not even make 400hp in 92.   I was doubting it so I went to look and sure enough, it is quite bit less.

Maybe compare displacement naturally aspirated to displacement to start.   And not try to inflate the impressiveness of the turbo which actually wasn't all that impressive.


911 may have been a hell of a lot more refined than a Viper but power/torque curve is not even close even if you throw the 911 turbo in there.     Do not start trying to offer examples of modified 911s because Vipers have been getting aftermarket boost too.
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I said power to the ground. There is a big difference in drivetrain loss between a 911 and a viper. Porsche’s hp figures of that era were the minimum spec. If you put them both on a dyno the actual difference would be quite small.
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 10:27:54 AM EST
[#4]
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Quoted:
I like going fast. Doesn't matter how.

i shoot for 120hp per cylinder or 250hp per liter out of my 90s cars. Stock block, head and tranny.
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And yet none of the cars from the 90s were making 250hp per liter.   Maybe modified to hell but even today that is a goal that takes extreme caution.

One HP per cubic inch was respectable for a factory engine that had been modified.   Was nearly unheard of for something from factory naturally aspirated.
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 10:31:38 AM EST
[#5]
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Quoted:

I think Gen 4 is still the most dangerous. abs only with the power bumped up to 600. After some extra effort 700hp on mine. (Still small numbers compared to the twin turbo guys at Calvaro Motorsports with 2400hp.

Just cause we need more photos.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/77421/7FCD1867-D416-4366-BA3F-8DD798DFA107_jpe-1409487.JPG
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Random question...is that the Columbia River?
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 10:31:45 AM EST
[#6]
Quoted:

Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools. I can fix it.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIY8tkbsHe8
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"Let me call my buddy Dennis and see if he wants to go in on half-ers"




Link Posted: 4/14/2022 10:32:49 AM EST
[#7]
Happens every time that you drive faster than your talent will allow.
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 10:36:30 AM EST
[#8]
JFC man, the poor Gen 1 RT/10

what a fuckin ass hat.

Probably had some old shitty tires on it, and homie forgot those vipers have zero TC/ASC etc.

It's a real deal 500hp car with no nanny gadgets, besides ABS

Link Posted: 4/14/2022 10:37:56 AM EST
[#9]
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Quoted:


And yet none of the cars from the 90s were making 250hp per liter.   Maybe modified to hell but even today that is a goal that takes extreme caution.

One HP per cubic inch was respectable for a factory engine that had been modified.   Was nearly unheard of for something from factory naturally aspirated.
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90s Dsms basically require a $15 boost controller and a ecu flash to make that reliably from a 2L 4cyl. Be pushing the the hell out of the stock turbo and fuel delivery but not hard. Add a slightly larger turbo and fuel pump to increase lifespan. No caution needed.

Stock block tranny head will handle it basically forever.
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 10:39:29 AM EST
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
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I said power to the ground. There is a big difference in drivetrain loss between a 911 and a viper. Porsche’s hp figures of that era were the minimum spec. If you put them both on a dyno the actual difference would be quite small.
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Sorry but I disagree.   Even if the 911 is rated at rwhp 350 wheel hp is not more than 400 at the crank.
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 10:42:24 AM EST
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



So was a 2.3l 4 banger ford.

I dont get your point...

Multiply displacement times 4 and call the hp a direct relationship to displacement and compare to viper engine...

For the time period everything was pretty close...
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Quoted:
Quoted:


How about BMW then? The standard 4cyl M3 was making almost 100hp/l in 1991.



So was a 2.3l 4 banger ford.

I dont get your point...

Multiply displacement times 4 and call the hp a direct relationship to displacement and compare to viper engine...

For the time period everything was pretty close...

The 91 Ford 2.3 made over 200 horsepower? I thought they were close to half that
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 10:44:21 AM EST
[#12]
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JFC man, the poor Gen 1 RT/10

what a fuckin ass hat.

Probably had some old shitty tires on it, and homie forgot those vipers have zero TC/ASC etc.

It's a real deal 500hp car with no nanny gadgets, besides ABS

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Old man in his 10,000 mile Viper with OE Goodyear Gatorbacks gonna show that dumb millennial what-for
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 10:53:17 AM EST
[#13]
Where was the race?    Someone stole that poor man’s hood (or bonnet if you are from across the pond)!  
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 10:59:33 AM EST
[#14]
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Quoted:


"Let me call my buddy Dennis and see if he wants to go in on half-ers"

https://www.glassbytes.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Richard-Rawlings-.jpg


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Quoted:

Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools. I can fix it.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIY8tkbsHe8


"Let me call my buddy Dennis and see if he wants to go in on half-ers"

https://www.glassbytes.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Richard-Rawlings-.jpg




Are you sure he wasn't driving?

Dodge Challenger Hellcat Widebody Richard Rawlings Drag Racing Crash
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 11:09:11 AM EST
[#15]
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Quoted:
Was it worth it?
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Are you the reincarnation of my father?  Because he uttered those words many a time.  
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 11:13:59 AM EST
[#16]
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Quoted:



Sorry but I disagree.   Even if the 911 is rated at rwhp 350 wheel hp is not more than 400 at the crank.
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Quoted:


I said power to the ground. There is a big difference in drivetrain loss between a 911 and a viper. Porsche’s hp figures of that era were the minimum spec. If you put them both on a dyno the actual difference would be quite small.



Sorry but I disagree.   Even if the 911 is rated at rwhp 350 wheel hp is not more than 400 at the crank.


I never said it was more. If you start with one car rated at 376 and one at 400 that's already pretty close in my mind. Now say that the former has less drivetrain loss that the later and its closer. If the car rated at 376 was really 390 to begin with then they are "pretty much the same" and the difference is "quite small".
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 11:28:11 AM EST
[#17]
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Random question...is that the Columbia River?
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Or the Snake.
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 11:33:49 AM EST
[#18]
Lol. Thats Dayton Ohio. My company did work on that Grismer Tire.
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 11:37:39 AM EST
[#19]
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The 91 Ford 2.3 made over 200 horsepower? I thought they were close to half that
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The cosworth turbo 2.3, but that wasn’t exactly common in the US.
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 11:49:16 AM EST
[#20]
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 11:50:55 AM EST
[#21]
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I took one out that belonged to a customer of mine.  He threw me the keys and said: "have fun."

I took my colleague with me, and we went down a long dead end road.  When I turned around, I jumped on it with everything it had.  My colleague was desperately looking for something to grab on to in sheer panic.

You know that feeling on a really fast sport bike when it feels like the bike will come out from under you?  That's what the Viper felt like.  I made it halfway through second gear and chickened out.  I knew it was going to get away from me.  Torque steer is VERY real.
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Technically torque steer is referring to FWD vehicles but I get your point. A friend let me drive his 2002 and I also chickened out at that same time but honestly I thought it was topping out 2nd gear. When I grabbed 3rd the damn thing bogged.

I have a Viper T56 and a lot of other Viper parts in my Dakota but it has nowhere near the power and is a good bit heavier.
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 12:08:47 PM EST
[#22]
Lol, good.
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 12:12:25 PM EST
[#23]
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Quoted:

Or the Snake.
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Quoted:


Random question...is that the Columbia River?

Or the Snake.


Thanks, I was trying to remember that one as well.
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 12:13:43 PM EST
[#24]
Built & Cammed Viper GTS / A&C Performance / Vipertoad
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 12:15:39 PM EST
[#25]
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 12:16:32 PM EST
[#26]
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 12:19:05 PM EST
[#27]
Having a high performance car does not make you a high performance driver…
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 12:32:41 PM EST
[#28]
Is LR tire is chalked marked? Has he been heating them at the track?

Did he the blow LR tire?

Link Posted: 4/14/2022 12:37:23 PM EST
[#29]
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Quoted:



It is.  And it wants to kill you.  It is not a car for those who lack skill.
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I've often heard that the viper is the type of car that will kill you if you give it the chance.



It is.  And it wants to kill you.  It is not a car for those who lack skill.

So does the snake it's name comes from.

$40,000 in damage to a car that might currently be worth $48,000.
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 12:40:43 PM EST
[#30]
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94-95 time frame a dealership brought a Viper to the (now closed) Saugus Speedway for an exhibition in between races. After a couple of slow laps the driver got on it a little trying to show off and promptly went into a spin and almost put the car into the wall. He then slowly drove back to the pits
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Yep, Vipers are so cool until you lay into them, have heard a few stories about that.
94-95 time frame a dealership brought a Viper to the (now closed) Saugus Speedway for an exhibition in between races. After a couple of slow laps the driver got on it a little trying to show off and promptly went into a spin and almost put the car into the wall. He then slowly drove back to the pits


Smart man....A friend of mine had one in the early 2000's.  He let me takeit for a drive , he was with me.  I was babying it, gave it a little gas in 3rd gear and the ass end broke loose.  I managed to get it back together but not before getting pulled over.  

No ticket but I drove straight back to his house, said thank you and declined any offers to ever get behind the wheel again. It was the only car that flat out scared me and the one with the most HP i'd ever driven.  



Link Posted: 4/14/2022 12:42:56 PM EST
[#31]
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Quoted:


Random question...is that the Columbia River?
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Yes. Right above Crescent bar.

More viper love to trigger the masses.



Full nitrous system. Since 600hp and no traction control wasn’t crazy enough.

Link Posted: 4/14/2022 12:48:57 PM EST
[#32]
Quoted:

Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools. I can fix it.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIY8tkbsHe8
View Quote


Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 12:51:22 PM EST
[#33]
IIRC the main goal was zero to 100 and back to zero in the shortest time possible. If they could have eliminated the brakes to save weight they would have.

When they came out we had 3 Vipers crash in my area in 3 months, all racing Corvettes.

2 of them took the Vettes with them.
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 12:52:31 PM EST
[#34]
Stop calling that car a Gen 1

The headlamps, hood and exhaust identify that car as a Gen 2
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 12:58:53 PM EST
[#35]
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 1:00:39 PM EST
[#36]
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Quoted:
Looks expensive

My question is: if you have a Viper, why lower yourself to racing some clapped out piece of ricer shit?
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Because they mistakenly think they can win.  How often is it because they got 10+ yr old, hockey puck tires.
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 1:05:24 PM EST
[#37]
What a dumbass.....
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 1:05:49 PM EST
[#38]
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Quoted:


Because they mistakenly think they can win.  How often is it because they got 10+ yr old, hockey puck tires.
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Because they mistakenly think they can win.  How often is it because they got 10+ yr old, hockey puck tires.

Sadly it’s a huge problem with viper owners. Tires get old and hard. Some cars literally only go out for a few hundred miles a year. Then they have 15 year old tires on them. Pretty sure my tires are getting aged about at only 5 years. PZeros tend to get hard fast. I do have a spare set to put on soon that are newer and 0 miles.

Here’s a write up from someone in the viper community that knows what’s what. Sorry for the wall of text. But worth reading for any sports car owner.


PartsRack Inc began dismantling wrecked Vipers for salvageable parts in 1998. Since that time we have noticed a common denominator in a majority of the organ-donor cars we salvage:  The tires are old, worn, hard, or mis-matched.  We see one new rear tire opposite an old rear tire; even tires from different manufacturers front-and-back.  This may seem innocuous to the uninitiated but poor tire configurations are downright dangerous.


Consider this:   If you dropped to all fours,  and tried to walk like a Cheetah (Elephant?) the total surface area of your own hands and feet would actually exceed the contact patch of your Viper’s four tires!   Your top speed would be about 1% of your Viper’s, with the same “rubber meeting the road.” If you don’t monitor and manage your Viper’s  contact patches you may be asking for serious trouble.   Tire contact also provides the direct feedback to your brain, thru your hands, feet, shoulders and butt. Called “Seat Of The Pants” (SOTP) receptors.  When your tires lose grip, you sense it thru SOTP, and your brain’s balance system, consisting  of eyes and inner ears.  It is important to have a good set of matched tires that sends the same signals to all your SOTP receptors.

Tire age is important. Every tire has a DOT serial number, stating the week/year of build. A recently televised study suggested that 6-8 year old tires may have exceeded their useful life, despite good remaining tread depth. Sunlight, oxygen, ozone, temperature, and other atmospheric factors, combined with heat-cycles of routine driving, all conspire to harden tires. The softer the tire initially, the faster it hardens. So, 3-year old race tires are much worse than 3-year old OE street tires.  Think of an old tire as a hockey puck....sliding along.

Tire construction and tread style is critical.  You would not wear a boot on one foot, and a tennis shoe on the other. And yet, owners want to maximize tire use, and often consider replacing 2 worn rear tires, while retaining hard, aged, often mis-matched front tires.  Adding fresh REAR rubber is almost always a formula to overdrive or “push” your old FRONT tires, which have hardened. Your SOTP tells your brain the rear is hooked up great, but the fronts can’t cash the checks your butt-cheeks are writing.   And if you also choose a mis-matched tread or sidewall, you may be risking disaster:  They Handle Differently.

Mixing Runflat fronts with newer PS-2 rears is also problematic, Same goes for Gen 1-2 Sport fronts, adding two PS-2 rears.   The PS2 is an asymmetrical, non-directional tire.  The Sport is Symmetrical, and a directional tire. If you mix these on the same car, the front tires corner differently from the rears!   The sidewalls flex differently, and the tread grips differently. This may be OK for your father’s Buick, but NOT for a stiffly-framed Race Car like the Viper.

Qualifier: In track events, driver alertness is 110%. Divers anticipate twitchiness and loss-of-control limits. Mis-matched tires on-track are probably less scary, because of this peak awareness.  But if you encounter a street or  highway surprise issue, (traction, debris, wildlife, idiots) you are NOT at 110% alertness. Maybe you are only at 50%.  In an emergency or surprise urgency, you are more likely to over or under-correct with mis-matched tires, and lose control.  Several anecdotes of these exact scenarios can be seen on viper message forums like www.thevipergarage.com

If you get a non-repairable tire, don’t install a single  full-tread new tire opposite a partially used, lower tread tire. You are creating a ‘stagger’ that will turn the car to the low side on both braking or hard acceleration. NASCAR teams use as little as 1/4 pound of air in a right-rear tire, as stagger to make a car turn left.  If you add 1 full-tread tire, with a used tire having thinner tread, you are taking a risk.


Like NASCAR, pay close attention to your tire pressures.   Almost every Viper Cruise I attend, someone has a near-flat tire, and they seem clueless.  That low tire, in an emergency-avoidance situation, will crash you.  Make a habit of doing a walk-around before every drive, especially after a week or two of inactivity. Even stored Vipers seep air. Carry a good tire gauge. Check your pressures when you buy 3 tanks of gas, or at least monthly.


Vipers have a larger option of tread compounds and tread styles in 18" combinations than in any other size.  You can have more control, or specialized control, with the correct tire choice. Autocross or roadrace compounds, drag radials, and several street options. Luckily, 18" wheels are available to fit Vipers from 1992-2008, with only minor changes necessary for SRT models.  Weight matters, too. 18" tires and wheels are generally the lightest available. Additional car control can be gained with lighter wheels. Easier to steer and brake, with a lighter feel thru the steering and suspension. Faster acceleration and deceleration results when rotating mass is less.

PartsRack has  access to the same tire inventories as TireRack, as well as some private deals that come our way.  Not to mention discount wheel opportunities on Forgeline, OZ-Racing,  HRE, CCW, Asanti, and more. We can almost always save you money on wheels or tires...and maybe we can even help save you or your Viper from an unsafe mistake.  

Link Posted: 4/14/2022 1:10:27 PM EST
[#39]
This took place on a street I'm very familiar with. I've actually been to the Goodyear store who's sign abruptly stopped the Viper and the Grismer in the background at the beginning of the video, my wife used to work at the hospital located about a block from there as well. It's an exceptionally bad spot to be doing any racing or "spirited driving". Seriously, both these guys deserved to get their cars wadded up.

I passed on a clean Viper for $25k some years back so I could sink that same amount into a 50 year old Buick. Still regret that one sometimes.
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 1:15:49 PM EST
[#40]
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And guess what. Insurance won’t pay for it….
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Sure they will.....

You can clearly see that it was an honest mistake made during a friendly illegal street race. They can watch the video and dee for themselves that it was an accident.
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 1:30:06 PM EST
[#41]
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 1:42:34 PM EST
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
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Viper was my dream car. Then I went to a DSM shootout and watched every single 4cyl in the parking lot smoke half a dozen vipers left over from the mopar day before. Over and over again ending with one of the viper boomers whipping his helmet across the parking lot in disgust. Was a life changing day for me.
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Modded DSMs are no joke. AWD, and that 4G63 could be modded to pretty ridiculous levels for a 2.0L.
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 2:27:21 PM EST
[#43]
I'm just curious what makes a car an "exotic".. and why the Viper isn't considered exotic?

is there any other roadster comes with an all aluminum 500ci V10 and no door handles?

seems like that puts it in the club..
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 2:33:54 PM EST
[#44]
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Between this and the goose video it's already been a pretty good week in GD.
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Yes.  Yes it has.  

I am a Mopar guy but I hate stupidity and that old man had a lot of it.  Everything that happened was earned.
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 2:40:39 PM EST
[#45]
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Wrong, that's what comprehensive is for.
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And guess what. Insurance won’t pay for it….


Wrong, that's what comprehensive is for.

Not when engaging in an illegal speed contest.
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 2:43:48 PM EST
[#46]
Play stupid games
Wrecked a nice car for what?
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 2:48:26 PM EST
[#47]
"Too soon old, too late smart."
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 2:51:19 PM EST
[#48]
The only car i can think of that has more of a "widowmaker" mystique about it than a Viper is a Carrera GT.  Both for essentially the same reason.

They sure do look good... not the the one in the video, though. He absolutely mangled that poor thing.
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 3:04:11 PM EST
[#49]
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Quoted:
I'm just curious what makes a car an "exotic".. and why the Viper isn't considered exotic?

is there any other roadster comes with an all aluminum 500ci V10 and no door handles?

seems like that puts it in the club..
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This has been a hot topic since the beginning.

In a lot of ways, the Viper “seems” exotic.  The performance (contemporary to any models year) was certainly there.   The looks are there. The price, not so much. The exclusivity….that’s a tough one because the answer is “sort of?”


If we look at it in terms of “it was an alternative to the corvette they never really succeeded at that”. It isn’t very exotic.  Corvettes are awesome, but they are anything but exotic or exclusive.   (And in many peoples minds, that is what people see the Viper as…the “other” American sports car)

If we look at it in terms of it being designed to be an value alternative to some of the best performance exotics in the world, it could go either way. Is it the budget exotic or is it the non exotic car that slays exotics?

From a technological standpoint, it doesn’t bring much to the table. It is the old schools formula of cramming the biggest engine around into a small, simple car.  Exotics tend to be technological marvels.  

There is also the reality of the dealer experience. Exotic cars tend to have pretty 1st class dealer experiences. (Even if the dealer is really small). The Viper is a Dodge.  There is nothing interesting about a Dodge dealership.

At the end of the day, some folks think they are exotic. They certainly get grouped together with exotics at events. While vettes are usually grouped in with  pony cars and the like. ((Broad statement, far from absolute, but anyone who does enough car stuff in multiple places knows this is true).  


I have had several. I never really saw them as exotic.

Link Posted: 4/14/2022 3:04:22 PM EST
[#50]
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Quoted:
Play stupid games
Wrecked a nice car for what?
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Our entertainment.
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